jpinx

So it's not just rich thai kids that rear-end a bike ?

It'd be worse if your date of joining was displayed as well

Any truth in the post by BobbyTin on another thread saying: -- The girl in the Rosenthal case, she was 2 weeks before her 18th birthday --

Simon

You mean this comment ---?

Not sure if he has sources or is blowing smoke......

Surely this is only if the offence is deemed to be against the interests of the US? It's a bit of a wild leap to say US law applies worlwide to non-US people!

I agree - but it seems to me that US will take an "interest" where they want.

Example --

If a non-US citizen of country "A" were to be caught in country "B" after stealing the US ambassadors car in country "C" and using it for running guns between country "D" and country "E" do you think the US will sit back and let the local judicial system work it out?

.................. But that has nothing to do with Thai law of course.

Indeed it would appear that Thai law is irrelevant.

Does anyone know of an example of a "reverse" situation where someone was charged with some offence(s) - possibly for drugs - and Thai law imposed a penalty greater than that prescribed by US law? Did the USA subsequently over-ride Thai law and reduce the penalty to US levels when the person got back to USA?

Is it also correct to say that if a non-USA citizen commits an offence against the USA, then the USA will impose US law in the same way as if that person was a USA citizen? That appears to be the nub of the Assange protest.

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The offender will go in pre-trial and final trial in Thailand. His possible execution of Thai court sentence (imprisonment) will happen in Thailand. He can apply for a prison transfer program after 1/3 of his time. Depending on the law treaty between both countries. Please open this link (included 2 other links).

http://chiangmai.usc...n-thailand.html

The crimes he comitted in Thailand are under US PROTECT act of 2003 and result in maximum 30 years imprisonement. Depending on the facts and a possible cumulation of several crimes together. Under the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution he will have to face probably dual/double criminality and dual/double jeopardy clausules. This means that he can do longer jail-time in the US if the Thai final court sentence was lower than in the US for the same crimes. Idem dito if some crimes were not sentenced/applied by the Thai court, they will be sentenced by the US court as per US laws. These regulations have been made so that sex-offenders would not commit crimes abroad in a 'softer' judicial system.

Amazing.!! If the Thai courts decide on certain charges and penalties - the USA will ignore all of that and impose their own charges and penalties regardless. No wonder USA is probably the most hated country in the world - and I say that with no malice - purely as an observation. Why bother with laws in any other country if USA law is allowed to prevail. One wonders when will they send in a permanent policing presence to enforce US law abroad? Now Assange's protest becomes much more valid - but that's another topic,,,,,,,

Yes, USA long arm statute might still apply. And I don't know the law in Thailand where money is involved. I will find out tomorrow though as I will be meeting with a group of Thai law professors and will show them this thread. I'm curious about entrapment law in Thailand also. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying the perpetrators behavior (although I never believe that any incident has been accurately described in a Thai newspaper).

Entrapment is probably illegal - but who is going to enforce it? It's the perennial problem in highly corrupt systems that finding a "clean brush" is nigh-on impossible. Even in the west they draft in "external" agents to oversee corruption inquiries.

Thanks for the clarity in this very muddy thread I, for one, will be very interested in anything more you come up with. One wonders if the "long-arm" reach of USA law is reserved for legislatures which they deem to be somewhat less than competent, or is it arbitarily applied?

Like you - I condemn anyone proven of child molesting/abuse - but I also believe in innocence until convicted by a court - not by ThaiVisa

I recently edited a journal article by a Thai criminal law lecturer on statutory rape and the defense of mistake of age and had a long discussion with him about it. You might not like it, I don't and neither did the lecturer, but it is an allowed defense in Thailand if the girl is 13 or over. When and how the judge will accept it is complicated.

while interesting - it appears to be a moot point given the assertation that USA law will apply.

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In mitigation of my own and others perceptions of the legal issues - we always forget that USA law applies worldwide - even to non-USA people. Hence Assagne's "last stand".

Also - someone earlier in this thread did mention that in Oz it was a reasonable and workable defence if it could be clearly shown that age was not properly clarified to the defendant. I know - that's not USA, but again - we always forget that USA law applies in Thailand

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

- Police laws in Thailand are far from being the same as those applied in most western countries for severe crime interventions. Again, I wouldn't blame them so fast.

- The child-victim is under child protection as long as the court made a decision to release her. Quitte impossible to suggest that she had been seen around the same place under influence of drugs the day after the criminal facts. She's supposed to be 13 and can't have the same threatment for her acts as an adult...

- Press (tabloid) released that he has a step-daughter from the same age...( wrong, she's 6 years old ) to send people thinking in a certain direction...

Which way do you want to follow ?

Does this mean that the police are governed by "police law" whiel the rest of the population has the "law" - or am I reading too much into your wording ? In any event if the child was being monitored by police and community workers of whatever flavour, it is not unreasonable to assume that they have a duty of care - hence the monitoring. In this regard they failed miserably, but was that intentional?

As for the reports of the girl being out on the game again - I do not speak from first hand knowledge, but I have heard in several unconnected quarters that she is indeed back and actively soliciting.

So many "holier-than-thou" responses from guys who are actually saying "There but for the grace of God, go I." This guy was being a bad boy for sure, but no way is it clear that he intentionally picked up a junior. His greatest crime was not getting the ID checked by hotel, police - even a taxi-driver would have put him right.... Who approached who or who spoke first is immaterial - the girl went willingly for a price - he didn't have to strong-arm her or knock her over the head and bundle her into a taxi.

Anyone who has first hand experience of Beach Road will know that you will be approached at all times of day and night in the most casual manner by all styles, ages and sexes - - mostly indeterminable. The wise thing to do is enjoy some banter and move on. This guy was just tempted beyond his limit and didn't take the basic precautions. If he goes to court (he might as well now since his cover is well-blown anyway) the judge just might take the view that it was entrapment of one kind or another and not hit him too hard - at least that way the rednecks in USA will not get their hands on him.

You, like so many others have little understanding of how this works, for an American. The American govt. absolutely has a bug up its butt, when it comes to sex, and especially underage sex. They get full cooperation from the Thai police, and the Thai govt. I said FULL! So, unless you can buy your way out on this end, you ARE FINISHED. Your life is over. The Thai cops get credit for turning someone over to the Americans. One call to the embassy is all it takes! After a 10 year federal prison term, where do you go from there? I am told it takes at least 1,000,000 baht, to buy your way out, on this end, when she is 16 or under. Closer to one million US on the other end, in attorneys fees if you want to have a fighting chance. So, unless you are very rich, very dumb, or just do not care, as a US citizen you had better be super, super careful in these matters.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for the heads-up on USA law. I was assuming that the guy would have a chance of maintaining innocence until proven guilty, but it appears that this is not the case - shame really....

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

Speaking of zero knowledge, how do you know he was drunk ?

I don't - but it's not an unreasonable supposition in my opinion - hence the use of brackets around that specific.

It's a shame that people do not understand the basics of written English, but then again - English might not be their first language.

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

correct! i don't walk Beach Road. neither during daytime nor at night.

On that basis I will put you on <ignore> until you are talking about something of which you have personal experience.

I bought a new ide hdd in Panthip, BangKapi about a month ago. 2 or 3 floor - can't remember the shop name, but I can find it again Cheap and with warranty. They said they always keep a couple of new ide drives in stock for old tech cronies like me !!

just found the receipt. . Call 0819006635 or 021873053 and speak to Chai. He has some English .. 250Gb was 2050Baht

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

Welcome to the madhouse.

I hate all these people that complain about the negative attitudes in here - we're all one big happy family really - - except him sitting in the corner.......

4am in the morning after a few beers, i can understand mistaking a 17 or 18 year old girl as looking possibly acceptable.

But 13??

I know Neal through scuba diving, and i wish him well, but it looks like he has royally xxxxxx up with this one.

Do you have any news of what's happened to him now ?

It'd be very interesting to hear how this gets handled and what the outcome is - given the overly-obvious entrapment.

Is there a link to pattaya court proceedings anywhere? Even if it's in Thai it'd make fascinating reading

You will invoke the wrath of the wife, the lover and possibly even your friend if you tell.

It's a poisoned chalice.....

This is a wee bit off the subject, but how could I do a DIY suction breaker (just the opposite of what your going through) that would allow air to enter (a 4" sewer line, with only one toilet on it) when flush water is going through and closes (the obnoxious odors) after the fact. Now it gurgles and belches after a flush and it is because of no proper venting. I used to work in a boat yard building custom yachts and we installed these vent loops on the heads where the air break was just above water line so that it could not make a siphon and sink the boat before anyone caught it happening. It has happened before, especially on sailboats. Thanks pg

I did the boat version with a modified caged pingpong ball valve - self sealing if the water level lifted the pingpong ball to cover the end of the pipe;)

For the domestic version just tee-off a small bore pipe and run it high enough to be above the head of any water level in the drainage system.

For the self-priming pump - the simplest way is to fit a small header tank containing enough water to prime the system twice over, and a floating stopvalve to prevent it over filling when the pump is running.

-45 is the number of units from 1 to 44; +45 is the number of units from 45 to 99

224 is the price per unit up to 44 ; 168 is the price per unit up to 99

I had to ship to luggage to Russia 2y ago and my freight company (Swiss based) told me that they measure the volume in cubic centimeteres and did weight the parcel. Then they converted the volume into kg by dividing with 6'000.

Example: Freight is 150kg, volume is 1mx1mx1m= 1Mio cubic centimeter; 1'000'000/600 = 166.6kg

=> you will be charged with 166.6 units (kg), as the volume is higher than the average volume expected for the weight

=> and of course vice versa

Agree it is unclear what the unit is (assume kg, but could be pound for a UK company), whether cost is in Baht or $ or whatever currency and whether you pay 224 for the first 44 units and then 168 for the next 54 units or 168 for all units up to 99 if higher than 45 => you probably need to call to find out.

-45 is the number of units from 1 to 44; +45 is the number of units from 45 to 99

224 is the price per unit up to 44 ; 168 is the price per unit up to 99

I had to ship to luggage to Russia 2y ago and my freight company (Swiss based) told me that they measure the volume in cubic centimeteres and did weight the parcel. Then they converted the volume into kg by dividing with 6'000.

Example: Freight is 150kg, volume is 1mx1mx1m= 1Mio cubic centimeter; 1'000'000/600 = 166.6kg

=> you will be charged with 166.6 units (kg), as the volume is higher than the average volume expected for the weight

=> and of course vice versa

Agree it is unclear what the unit is (assume kg, but could be pound for a UK company), whether cost is in Baht or $ or whatever currency and whether you pay 224 for the first 44 units and then 168 for the next 54 units or 168 for all units up to 99 if higher than 45 => you probably need to call to find out.

Many thanks One more question - what is the MIN about ? Is that a minimum charge per shipment?

fwiw - this is a company in Bangkok Airport that will ship unaccompanied bags anywhere, so I'm guessing that units are Kgs and Baht

It's a sad day when a group of Expats find it reasonable to discuss and defend how anyone could of got caught out etc etc..Safety in numbers and group mentality at its finest.

If you have any reason to check a persons ID for legal age to start with, something is wrong, that clearly means the person is into young girls or guys to start with.Plenty of women of legal age available in Pattaya if paying for sex is your thing.

As or the comments everyone has been there or slept with hookers etc etc maybe in your own circles but not in the normal world.Its no different then to agree that everyone does drugs from a drug addicts perspective.Fact is they don't.

Im sure many will jump on this post about me being holier than thou etc etc, far from it. After 15 years in Thailand ,just find the whole Thai expat or sex tourist thing well sad really. I mean it is not exactly hard to pull here you can get a date almost anywhere.

As for they guy who's been caught I also wonder why the police didn't step in earlier, but fact is they didn't and he was in bed with a minor end of story.

Maybe you need to read the original report and look at the photos. The guy did ask the girl her age - she lied and got away with it because she appeared to him (and from the back in the photos) to be old enough to be a hooker on Beach Road at 4am.

The Police state that they KNEW she was 13 before the guy approached her, but the police did nothing to protect her - just wait to catch the farang and make a big story.

The farang must have been in a bad way -- recently abandoned by his thai wife. This most certainly does not make child sex acceptable, but it does point to a most unfortunate case of a very vulnerable guy being trapped in every sense of the word.

I hope this goes to court...............

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

true. so many on the board are trying to make stupid-ass excuses. you forgot the one about he's probably drunk.

makes you wonder why these guys have so much sympathy for the perp.

I hope the next time you are approached by a nice looking girl on Beach Road you will employ your incredible knowledge of human nature and of how life is in Pattaya to make sure you do not end up in the same situation. I hear the same girl is still plying her trade on Beach Road, so you have a good chance to prove that you really *are* Holier than anyone else ....

Your link only gives the blank form.

Here's a screenshot. I am trying to understand the -45 +45 etc and what the price really is.