Jawnie

I asked this question on another forum, an online sangha, and received several replies. Essentially, people responded that a ceremony is not necessary and that one who simply self-identifies is no less a "Buddhist" than one who goes through the precepts ceremony. However, like a wedding ceremony, taking refuge in the Triple Gem is an affirmation and celebration of what one now is and has attained - "having been brought to life in one's life", to quote the sensei.

Perhaps, being human and therefore social animals as well as individuals, we like to both self-identify and to be identified. Hence we like formalisation and ritual. Maybe not all of us, but many of us. So to formally commit to a practice and ethic in a public way seems a natural thing to do, but we don't really need to do it.

Personally, having broken so many promises and vows and resolutions in my life I'm wary of publicly committing to anything, but then I don't know that I'm a "Buddhist", just that Buddhist teaching consciously and articulately impacts on my life.

Many people say ceremony isn't necessary to becoming a Buddhist, but a little ceremony isn't going to hurt you, either, is it? There is a small ceremony for taking refuge by which one formal commits to following the Buddha's teachings. Frankly, I think it's not very helpful to reply to a question like this by telling someone they don't need to do anything, that they only need to "believe" or "follow" or "breath", etc. Buddhist sects have large organizations with lots of people, structures, and hierarchies. None these will save you or liberate you, but imply that someone need not, or can't, benefit from them or the traditions is bad advice and does't really answer the question.

Yes, everyone breaks their vows, that why we have ceremony and confession and renewal of vows. Yeah, if you are making the same mistakes you did 20 years ago, you might question your desire and motivation for calling yourself a Buddhist. Polish the mirror.

Go to the National Palace and Wat Phra Kaew. Go to wat Arun.

I am a Mahayana/Vajayana Buddhist, following the Tibetan tradition. It has a full prostration, which is to lay out completely flat on the floor. This is usually done privately or when there is room, but typically not done at wats. I go to wats in Bkk because praying, making offerings, and performing prostrations in front of an image or representation of the Buddha generates merit, regardless of the particular time, place or form one follows. When I go to wats, I do the Tibetan short-form style prostration.

The short form is done by placing the hands together at the heart in the same manner as a wei. Then touch the hands to the top of the head/forehead, then throat, then heart. After that, going down on all-fours (hands / knees on floor), and touch the forehead to the floor. Stand up straight, returning the hands to the chest. That's the short-form, Tibetan style. It's okay to do anywhere. You can take refugee as you do this: Buddha, Dharma, Sangha as you touch each point.

I like to go to a wat where I can perform circumambulations (walk around) of the Buddha statue - this is yet another form of offering and respect, which also creates merit.

Motivation is important. Because I am a Mahayana Buddhist, that tradition includes the idea of serving and benefiting all sentient beings. When I go to wat and offer flowers, incense, and gold leaf, I do so on behalf of all sentient beings, especially those in the hell realms. I make the offerings of incense, flowers, and gold for all those who are not able to - it is as a proxy for them; they can't do but may benefit from the merit. Then, as I perform the three prostrations, I image the merit that is generated going back to the Buddhas, while at the same time, I ask the Buddhas to please liberate all beings in the hell realms. As I perform the prostrations, I imagine this is happening and by end of the third prostration, I imagine that all the hell realms have been emptied by the power of the Buddhas. I then perform three circumambulations as an offering to the Buddha.

This is part of the Mahayana style of prostrations and prayer at wats or temples.

It seems rather complicated and difficult to discern completely and correctly about the elites, middle class, poor, have/have nots. I agree it will take a while longer if true democracy is to grow in Thailand. One thing that seems perfectly clear to me is that the military and the Army must be brought under civilian control, completely and totally - now and forever. Until the Army gets put back in the barricks and the generals are no longer allowed their own separate public voices (and tv stations), Thailand simply can not move forward on developing the democratic institutions in now lacks.

Can't believe that Air China isn't in top 5 - excellent.

If you wish to do a retreat or to actually ordain in Bangkok...don't blame Bangkok for you're failure (if you fail). As anywhere what you make of a retreat or becoming a monk is entirely up to you and your attitude. It's a copout (to use an American term) to blame the location if you can't find "peace" in a Buddhist retreat here in Bangkok.

Sure there are a lot of distractions...but there are those everywhere in the world. It's not the enviroment, it's what you make of the enviroment that makes the difference.

You can become just as (I hate this word) "spiritual" in Bangkok as you can in a Thai forest tradition Wat. It's not the location, it's your attitude that determines what you make of the experience.

Don't construe this as criticism. I'm just stating that what anyone makes out of a Bddhist retreat or studying Buddhisim is a personal thing. It has always been like that.

No one can "give" you Buddhisim, you have to get it for yourself. I expect that would be one of the first things that you would probably have to learn even in a Thai forest tradition Wat as a novice.

If you want to come to Thailand to study Buddhisim here, then do it. But don't blame the location if you fail to find what you expected or wanted.

I'll say it again, your results are up to you and your attitude.

Buddhisim is not a "day trip".

:jap:

Easier said than done, my friend.

Thai Buddhism is only one form of Buddhism and certainly doesn't reflect the full range of the Buddha's teachings or practices. Still, if one were to follow the Thai form, one should expect a good result. Thais becoming monks for a few months or a couple of years because it is expected of them isn't the greatest of intentions. It's sort of similar to Mormons who expect all men be serve as missionaries for two years. It makes for good citizens but do they really embody the teachings of their respective traditions?

I can imagine it is very difficult for a young Thai man to join the Sangha while living in Bangkok. It's probably pretty hard to calm the mind and draw the senses inward in such a sensuous and distracting environment. I think this is the reason the Vajrayana form of Buddhism has become more widely practiced, it has means within it to help individuals deal directly with urban life. Yeah, the forest is probably a better place to pursuit a real interest in Buddhist practice in Thailand. It's pretty off-putting to go to a wat and find the woman who prepares the flower offerings smoking over them; or the monk giving the blessings in the wat keeping his pack of cigarettes on the table with his blessing stuff. I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle trying to achieve real renunciation under such circumstances.

I turned 60 this year. This was significant to me because both of my parents died when they were 60 years old from what are now treatable cancers. So far, I've been extremely fortunate regarding my health: I exercise regularly, eat well, take no medications and still feel healthy and strong.

To the OP's points, Buddhism says that from the moment we are born, we are headed inextricably toward death. We forget this or never even thing about it. To me, this is the most "unfair" thing about life: that it ends.

Still, it does end...and we age. Nothing to feel sorry for or to be ashamed of. You are old now or will be some day; you are young now and think old people are yucky? You will be yucky one day, too. Some people are simply closer to the end than others.

I think it is important to continue practice as a Buddhist and that will counter many of the negatives which beset elders. By continuing to recite and memorize prayers, the mind stays active; the same with breathing and visualizations; the mind stays active and flexible. By attending temple and performing acts of merit with others, you pave the way to a happier and more fulfilling life now and the future. And, by continuing to practice meditation, wisdom arises through observing the endless patterns of suffering as we gain the wider perspective of years and insight. What mattered before is a meaningless waste of time and attention now.

BFD...

Plank, plactical joke....whatever.

And this is why we go to very public internet chat rooms and forums, asking for feedback, to tell people this?

...to have no opinion and to mind your own business

Tsewong Sitar Rinpoche will be in Bangkok the first week of June, 2011. His visit is being hosted by the Bangkok Shambala Meditation Group. Information about Rinpoche's talks and schedule are on the Shambala Facebook page. http://www.facebook....150701631666941

There's no way to know what will happen to your friend on a domestic flight. Immigration authorities any where inside of Thailand can inspect his visa status, as could any police officer, government official, etc. Your friend is currently in violation of Thai Immigration law and could go to jail any where and at any time his status is discovered. 53 days is a long overstay, he should expect to meet some unfriendly people at whatever immigration point he encounters. I don't think domestic flights need to see the visa but nothings to stop them, either. He has a problem. Perhaps going to an immigration office asap would be helpful. Waiting for the day of the flight is a little risky simply because of the length of the overstay.

I agree with the poster who referred you to Kinokuniya at Siam Paragon.

Also, I ordered books from the US via Amazon.com and they were delivered to me in here in Bkk about 10 days. It added about 15% to the cost.

thank you

The OP post is really just conjecture, nonsense, a second opinion, etc. Anyone reading it as news or facts is extremely easy to mislead. Who cares what Sondhi says - it's a completely empty and meaningless post. There's no facts, no nothing....its a complete smear job without any substance. A poor, poor try.

What are PM Abhisit's views on Article 112, les majeste? Would he support modifications or outright repeal? Or, does he support it?

All I see is sniping between candidates and their entourages. How about discussing issues?

Without a definitive or scripture answer, a lot of this is speculation. Often geomancy will play a role in where a temple, stupa, statue, etc. is placed. It could also be for the visual appeal and so that the structure can be seen from the distance. Quite possibly, if it's true that many Thai temples are on hills, maybe its just cooler on a hill, ie., a better breeze (but also more direct sunlight). Maybe there's not a better use for the hill with respect to the rest of the temple property - I know of a temple in the US that was squeezed into a corner of the property to get the best us of the rest of the property. Or, maybe patrons asked that the temple be placed on a hill. Lots of possibilities. If it's a Buddha statue, it's probably for the visual appeal. Also, visitors to the statue will have a view from the hilltop (which may have a meditation garden with a view), an unobstructed view, which is beneficial for the mind through elimination of the immediately surrounding visual "clutter" leaving the mind free to open to the landscape, earth, and sky.

Fabianfred: I generally agree with you on this. But, I've attended a number of Theravada events in Bangkok attended by lots of Thais and a few monks who chanted from Thai-language prayer manuals. Nearly everyone placed their books on the floor, stepped over them, and were otherwise not respectful as you indicate. These were for the most part lay groups, like, at DMG in Amari. This was really odd to me since literally all the Tibetan dharma events I attended in the US over many years, students never did this and the lamas and monks were always consistent and quick to remind students when infractions occurred.

Revered things are placed high to show respect for them. Dhamma books and images are never placed upon the floor where they might be kicked or stepped over.

Also on hill-tops they are visible from afar.

What's her position in Article 112, les majeste in Thailand? And, how does she propose to reign in the military? What educational improvements will she make?

Your original post has some inconsistencies, but not to worry. They are that you've been on a path for years and had many spiritual experiences...but no progress. This is pretty contradictory. Since you'er looking for feedback, I'll provide a few thoughts. Since you've been practicing on your own, it's likely that you've made very little progress - sorry to say it. It is always advisable to associate yourself with some form of sangha, or group of dharma practitioners, and especially if they group is headed by a legitimate master. So, I think that's the next step for you - associating with a functioning sangha. It could be a Thai sangha, but there are others, though if you're in Thailand, that's all you'll find. The point is that it's nearly impossible to make real progress on your own, you need a teacher. There is a type of person in Buddhism who is able to progress on their own without a teacher, but my guess is that you aren't one of them, otherwise you wouldn't be here asking. Hope this doesn't sound to harsh.

This is just a typical Mahayana statement. They developed this Bodhisattva emphasis way beyond the teachings of Buddha. Among other things. Would be my 2 cents.

Despite possible leanings, whether Mahayanan or Theravadan, both will teach hell realms and much suffering due to Karmic accumulation.

The book provides details of these hell realms as follows:

Punishment is undergone day and night throughout many eons without ceasing for a moment.

Those punishments are inflicted by instruments of torture such as forks, clubs, by eagles, serpents, wolves and dogs, or by pounding, grinding, drilling, chiseling, cutting & chopping, or by boiling liquids, iron nets, iron ropes, or by rawhide strips bound around ones head, or molten iron poured over ones body, or by meals of iron pellets, and drinks of molten iron.

When these worlds are destroyed offenders are re born into another one, and another, and another and return to the original one when the original one comes into being again.

To describe all the hells, all the variations of punishments, and the evil beasts, ghosts, and spirits meting out these punishments would take eons to describe.

Offenders continually undergo thousands of deaths and as many rebirths each day and night from the moment they first enter this hell and on through hundreds of eons without a moments relief until the karma is exhausted.

We've spoken before about unspent karma leading to Infinite occurrences of re birth.

A few here will tell you that re birth can be into several realms, many in quite terrible hell states.

Infinity suggests infinite possibilities.

Hi Rockyysdt: a quick Google search confirms that this is a Mahayana sutra. As we know, some Thai Buddhists reject most things Mahayana. In any case, Dudjom Rinpoche, in his "History of the Nyingma School" lists Ksitigarbha as one of the "Eight Closest Sons" of the Buddha. This bodhisattva's Tibetan name is Sai-snying-po and is the Buddha of the hell realms.

No, you can't just come and go being a monk in Mahayana. Thurman gave it up and admits being a bad Buddhist. People give up on it, for good or bad reasons - does that not happen with Thai monks? But, Mahayana, like Thai Buddhism, allows lay people to take vows for shorter or longer periods, although I don't think that was Thurman's intention when he was ordained. Does not Thai Buddhism allow people to take temporary or short term vows, ie., vows which are not life-long, but for shorter, designated periods?

I have a hard time understanding Mahayana Buddhism. I guess you can just come and go as a monk whenever you want. I have a lot of respect for the Dalai Lama but the rest of the lama's I just don't understand. I'll try harder.

Er, uh....you mean to tell me that drinking on the job is not already illegal or banned by company policies? In the 21st century? Brain dead.

Duly noted, and thanks for the correction. As opposed to a tourist visa with its outright prohibition on employment, employment is possible with a ED visa, but a work permit is still required. The ED visa alone does not entitle one to work in Thailand.

Correct, only a work permit will allow you to work. A work permit is not issued on an ED-visa.

Some people are allowed an internship as part of their education and don't require a work permit. But this is part of their education.

I just returned from Vientiane, Laos, where I obtained an Education (ED) visa. I applied for ED visa for several reasons. First, I'm in Bangkok indefinitely and don't want or need to work full time. An education visa allows a person to work part time, less than 20 hours a week. Also, I, like everyone else, don't like "visa runs" and the uncertainty associated with tourist visas. Finally, I want to learn Thai language. In checking out the options for staying in Thailand indefinitely, the non-immigrant Education visa seemed like a good option.

One of the main requirements for the ED visa is to obtain a letter from the Ministry of Education to be submitted with the ED visa application. I obtained the Ministry letter through a separate process that language schools go through with the Ministry. The school must submit forms on your behalf, along with their own forms, to the Ministry of Education. After doing so, my school received my 'clearance letter' back from the Ministry one week after submitting it. Of course, the school requires you to pay for your 6 or 12 month course in advance of their submission to the Ministry. And, finally, as a general matter, you must attend a minimum number of class hours each week. My school gave me a completed seven-page set of documents, all in Thai, that I had to submit with the visa application.

After doing all of this, i.e., pay the school fees, begin to study Thai language, and receive the Ministry letter, I set out for Vientiane. I travelled from Bangkok to Udon Thani on AsiaAir for 3,931 baht, round trip. There were no problems with the one-hour flight, except for leaving a little late.

Upon arrival in Udon Thani, I retrieved my luggage and reached the airport lobby within 10 minutes of landing. After a few more minutes, I had purchased a ticket and was seated in an 11-passenger van, a "limousine', to the Thai border (200 baht) with six other passengers. The ensuing forty-minute drive to border was uneventful.

Arriving at the border, I departed Thailand, giving up the departure card, bought a bus ticket (20 baht) to cross the Mekong river to Laos, and then got off the bus at Lao immigration. This took about 20 minutes.

Once at Lao immigration, I applied for a Visa-on-Arrival, $35 US or 1,500 baht (one passport photo needed). It was a simple and orderly process and the place was not very busy at around 7:30 pm. It was only 30 minutes between arrival at Lao immigration station to collecting my passport/visa and entering Laos. From there, it was another 25 minutes by taxi to my hotel. The taxi was little expensive, 80,000 kip, or 290 baht (down from 400 baht), a local helped talk the driver down. It turns out that 290 baht (80,000 kip) is near the going rate.

The next day, I arrived at Thai Embassy at 8:20 am for its 8:30 am opening time. I got my queue number and waited only 20 minutes or so. I submitted a visa application, form (TM.87), that I downloaded from the Thai Immigration website, but it's not the correct form. I was given a different form at the window to use for the non-immigrant ED visa. She said I could return directly to the window when the form was complete. I returned to the window in about ten minutes with the completed form (two passport photos needed). The woman appeared a somewhat skeptical and 'fussed' a little, asking me where I stayed the previous night (a hotel in Vientiane, I gave her a card from the hotel).

Also, I had requested "multiple" entries on the form but she scratched that off, saying the Embassy doesn't give multiple entries, that Thai immigration will do that when I request an extension. This bothered me a little and I showed her the back of the form indicating multiple entries. That didn't help, so I backed off. Regardless of her vibes, she accepted the application and sent me on to pay the fee.

Documents submitted.

-the correct Non-immigrant visa application form, with two photos.

-Documents from Thai language school and Ministry of Education.

-Copy of passport

(I had my financial informationwith me, but she did NOT ask for it.)

I proceeded to the building next door and paid the 2,000 baht fee and got my collection receipt for the following day. Total time at the embassy was approximately 1.5 hours

On the following day, I arrived about twenty minutes before the 1:00 pm opening and there was already a substantial line. It was quite hot and fortunately I had my umbrella for shade. The gate opened on time and the queue moved quickly inside, with everyone getting a queue number.

Inside the passport collection room, staff was efficient and friendly, handing out the passports in a very orderly fashion. I was a little apprehensive because of the vibes I got the previous day and when my number came up, it was the same woman from the previous day. However, she gave me a friendly smile, took my receipt, found my passport, and handed it to me, without any drama and with the ED visa. I was out of the embassy this time in less than 30 minutes.

The visa was issued for a single entry and gave me 90 days to enter Thailand. Thereafter, and upon entry to Thailand, the immigration official at the border hand-wrote "USED" across the visa. I'll need to extend the visa every 90 days for 1,900 baht but don't need to leave the country to do it. All is well.

It's not negativity about the quality of teaching or anything about education. It's that a politician would make such a promise that will surely never come to pass. In that case, it's an outlandish proposal. Think of the practicalities and logistical issues involved, for starters, the money for these things, where will the money come from; when and where? Then the distribution and training, the students need to know how to operate them for the tablets are any help to them. This would mean the teachers themselves would need to know how to operate them, that the teachers would all need them, too. That's more training and curriculum development. What about service, defective units, etc.? Let's not forget the black market for stolen units, both from the import warehouse and by students themselves. It's just a ridiculous and irresponsible thing to say.

Yes, it would be great to have these things. Are there any other countries in the world that have done such a thing? How did it go?

Don't be so negative, everyone.

With the standard of teaching in most Thai schools being under the zero line, it will enable the few kids who want to, to learn. The rest can play computer games, look up their local yaa-baa dealer or contribute to ThaiVisa.