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TomTom55

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  1. I just received this from Dan at PSI, without looking back to page 1 I forget who linked me to him but thank you.

    Hi Tom,
    My name is Dan Boyd, one of the addiction specialists at PSI.
    I also specialize in the treatment of anxiety.

    As you mention in your email, benzodiazepine addiction is very
    difficult. I work exclusively in conjunction with Dr Thani at BNH
    on Convent Road in Bangkok. He is excellent in supervising the
    gradual withdrawal with the least discomfort to the patient and
    without adding on a bunch of unnecessary meds. As you point
    out, over-prescribing is a huge problem in Thailand so it is very
    important to have a supervising physician who is trusted. Also,
    I am assuming that a gradual, out-patient, weaning is what you
    want, rather than a more rapid in-patient detox.

    At the same time we would begin Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy
    to treat the anxiety disorder. This would entail weekly counseling
    sessions for a period of time. I am not sure how possible this is
    for you, living in Hua Hin, but we may be able to arrange Skype
    sessions after an initial period.

    Regarding fees, my standard fee is 3500 baht per 50 minute session.
    My office hours are Wednesday through Saturday, 9:00-7:00. You
    can read more about me on my web site below.

    Let me know how this is sounding to you and we will see if we can
    move ahead.

    Best regards,
    Dan

    So I think I may go with this, it sounds like the best option I have to be honest.

  2. So sorry to hear all this, have a look at www.alcoholrehab.com based in Chanthaburi and on Koh Chang, Dont be put off by name, they are Asia Health and have experience in addiction related problems too. Not sure how expensive but have done wonders for people I know.

    I looked yesterday, peng maaaaak! You are looking at around 400,000 for 28 days in those kinds of places. I have decided that I am going to reply on three things, myself, a decent therapist that understands the situation and is willing to help, and the Dharma.

    • Like 1
  3. Wow so much to read through. I will try to be brief.

    Hallucinogenics, I have taken pretty much every drug, or commonly known drug you can think of bar heroin and PCP, also some other ones a lot of you won't know of. LSD mushrooms and DMT are some I have taken quite a few times in the past as well. As much as I can see they have the ability to make you see things from a different perspective, they can also make things a whole lot worse.

    Christianity, you are either trolling or you are high up on a preaching pedestal, either way no sale. I'm Buddhist anyway. It has helped me grow a lot over the past 6 years with regards to my personality, but addiction is something that has remained.

    @nami it sounds like you treated yourself in a similar fashion to CBT? I know what you mean by really forcing yourself outside, it is so hard and so irrational at the same time. I am no monster yet I have this underlying anxiety issue that needs addressing, it has been there from as early as I would say 9-10 and I need to know why. The weird thing is when I first came here, for the first 9 months I did not take any benzos or anything really, my anxiety was kept at a manageable level and then one day it exploded and I sought out an easy and quick answer. I also have smoked weed for a long period of time, I quite smoking weed before I came here though, I smoked almost daily from the age of 14-19 and now I cannot smoke weed without it triggering anxiety attacks so I don't bother. That and the fact I don't like the notion of smoking in general.

    I know of xr or extended release, I do not want any more drugs, period.

    @hellodolly I am pretty sure anxiety is the cause of my addiction but I am not too sure of the causes or causes of my anxiety. I thin kI am have bene self medicating for years now, this is why I need a therapist.

    I cannot muster up the strength right now to search and reply to everything but thank you all. I am waiting to hear back from the PSI doctor in Bangkok, I may just phone him.

  4. A less expensive option would be to see a doctor specializing in addiction disorders to get on a regimen to taper off valium and then see a counselor/therapist on an outpatient basis. If you are in Bkk there are a number of good Western therapists available. I would particularly recommend Ben Weinstein at PSI. He is a clinical psychologist with a lot of experience treating people with anxiety and with addictions. http://www.psiadmin.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=2

    http://www.newlifethaifoundation.com/ is also a place to consider, it is a residential program based on Buddhist principles (but open to all) and non-profit so much less expensive than places like the Cabin. However I do not know if they would accept you will still on valium, you'd have to contact them and ask. (And do see a doctor so that you are on a program to taper it). This place would be of particular help in learning how to deal with anxiety without medication.

    I am close to BKK, Hua Hin is not too far. I have emailed the first link you provided so thank you for that. I have been interested in Buddhism before I even came to Thailand believe it or not but as you mentioned I would need to be clean first to enter that program I would assume. And that would mean me being in probably an anxious state of mind and even getting there would be the hurdle of hurdles.

    I have emailed a few services and people now so I shall see what comes of this, thank you everyone so far for your support, it's much appreciated.

  5. ...you don't mention your age.....do you have any family or friends that can offer you support....and make sure nobody takes advantage of you....

    I am 25 and I did have quite a few friends here farang and Thai, but recently have become such a recluse because this anxiety disorder seems to have stepped up another notch. I liver with my partner and that is pretty much the only person I truly interact with in person these days. Nobody is taking advantage of me, I do not know how but even after all of this abuse I still have my wits about me, have learnt to speak Thai and manage to provide for myself. My memory however is shot to pieces and if I keep taking vlaium or any benzo for that matter it will become worse and worse.

  6. If there is a Thai Psychiatrist who also works well as a therapist in Thailand, I would be surprised. They like to talk for 5 minutes and then send you to the pharmacist downstairs for meds.

    In general the Psychology profession here is not well developed at all. So, I would try The Cabin in Chiang Mai, as was pointed out and is generally well known and has decent reputation. It is pretty expensive, I hear.

    Or you might contact this woman (farang) and ask for a referral to a real Psychiatrist. If there are any, she may be helpful to point you in the right direction. Or maybe work tag team with a Psychiatrist where she does therapy and the other does meds.

    089-782-1764.
    Piyachat R. Finney, LMFT, LMHC

    Tapering from those doses will take months. There is a famous program developed by some British doctor (female) who outlines exactly how to taper and from different types of benzos. And when you get down to smaller amounts you may need some sophisticated mechanics to split pills or titrate, or what ever its called when you dissolve in water. The good news is Valium is easier to taper from than... say... Klonpin.

    Good luck and good health.

    Thank you for your post. Is the British Docotor you refer to Dr Aston? I am aware of her and in fact have have a brief discussion with her. I am at the moment though around 30-40mg a day, I know it should be constant but I am all over the place, plus I have been drinking 2-3 times a week as well for a while now. At least I am not taking 400mg anymore which is totally absurd, I am surprised I have not died.

    Your first paragraph is exactly what happened to me when I went to speak with a 'psychiatrist' quick discussion, didn't care or understand much and then some anti depressants that did nothing even after 6 weeks of use. What makes this whole situation worse is that mental illness or disorder is not that recognized here and thus it is not treated well. Nobody understands me, even my partner who I can speak to in Thai all day long doesn't fully understand, she does to an extent and she tries her best, but she doesn't fully understand or know solution. I just need a decent therapist who will give me the time of day to listen and have the professional skills to act accordingly. I want to be rid of substances, like I said it has been nearly 12 years of using and abusing them now and I am sick of it.

    Today I hit the wall and could see no way out, those thoughts do not head anywhere good. As for klonopin (clonazepam) I have taken that as well, xanax, lorazepam, temazepam, bromazepam, and some opiates as well, sometimes in combination with each other. But right now I am only using valium and by my standards a low dose.

    Where is Piyachat R. Finney based do you know?

    And finally yes the Chiang Mai cabin is around 400,000฿ for a months treatment, i emailed them earlier. I really do not have that money, and for a month it seems kind of much, even though they have a good reputation.

  7. I have been using all kinds of substances legal and illegal since the age of 14, I have tried several anti depressants that did nothing. I have searched around Hua Hin and Bangkok for a decent therapist and even though I can speak Thai fairly well, the ones I found did not do much help and threw more pills at me.

    Thanks for the link to the Chiang Mai rahab but that is a little pricey, I have found one in Koh Chang but I assume that one is also quite expensive. If I do not find a rahab that is a little less expensive I do not know what to do. using any substance as a crutch is not the way to go, I have been doing that for over a decade and it either makes things worse or simply covers up a problem. I am all too aware of the dangers of diazepam, I have had one seizure and have had accidents and nearly choked on my own vomit etc a few times, like I said I once was taking up to 400mg a day, which is 40 of the blue 10mg pills. And before anybody asks yes I have been diagnosed by a doctor twice, once when I was 12 and again when I was 19.

  8. Hello all.

    Basic background I was diagnosed with general anxiety at age 12, went on to develop hypochondria and now I have severe social anxiety which I have had for the past 5 years or so. I have been taking valium for the past 3 years and I can safey say I am addicted to it in a huge way. If I stop, I will get very sick and have potential seizures and even death. So one needs to taper.

    Anyway I have just hit a wall, I am bored of my life and am at the end, I have been struggling with this crap for over a decade now and I see now way out, it is a catch 22 situation. Now even if I take valium at low doses of 20-40mg I still find it hard to go outside and socialize, I have almost become recluse.

    I need somewhere in Thailand in the form of a rehabilitation centre that will understand the situation from a psychological point of view and also from the stance of benzo/valium in general.

    If anybody can post up some ideas of places prices whatever, that would help a lot, cheers.

  9. It is not drugs, it is a pain killer.

    It is a drug, even Paracetamol is a drug.

    From looking it up, Tramadol looks pretty nasty.

    Yea I don't understand why some people seem to put some substances into 'drug' categories and others 'non drugs', for example many people would say caffeine is not a drug, yet it kills more people than most illegal drugs around today.

    As far as tramadol goes it is an opiate but it is not that potent. On the opiate scale it is pretty far down there just above codeine. Also, it is a weird little drug because some people seem to be immune to it's qualities and report of non affect being felt whatsoever. This is a small percent but I would assume that would be due to specific enzymes in the liver.

  10. Tramadol is so easy to get, I am watching this story on Channel 3 at the moment. I have bought it OTC when I have had severe pain as I know a lot about pharmacology and know that it suffices well for chronic pain.

    I also have abused it in the past, I think the most I ever took in a day was on a trip to Penang being bored, I took 18 50mg capsules. The risk with high doses of tramadol is mainly seizures. It is the only opiate that is also an antidepressant (SSRI) which is one reason why it makes seizures a higher risk. Of course also over dosing is a risk if you are mixing it with alcohol, I have never heard of this soda method though.

    You can get Tramadol for as little as 25 baht up to around 40 baht for a blister pack of 10 capsules equating to 500mg.

    I understand the parents worry and suffering and I am glad the Thai media for ONCE has blanked out their faces and given some respect to those who should be allowed some.

  11. To all those people saying crap like "shoot first ask questions later" the Thai police were fired upon first. Even in the US you can get shot without even firing off a shot, so don't jump to such suggestions. This forum is so ripe with bitter stuck in the mud twits who have nothing better to do than slag off the Thai culture and people. Yes there are many flaws, but every country and system has their set of flaws. If you do not like it then leave, simple as that.

  12. All valid points, however people are already driving around under the influence, and all those other criminal activities are already highly active.

    I would legalize all drugs, and free up police time to go after the other activities. ( remembering I said worldwide ).

    Governments 'worldwide' are corrupt and the biggest criminals, just most of the Western governments do a better job of hiding it.

    I know people are already under the influence and driving, but if EVERYTHING was made legal then you would have more people using drugs I would assume, thus more people under the influence driving or doing their jobs. I think it is a very very difficult problem to approach and it needs to be looked at from many different angles, it is not so black and white.

    As for the criminals, if all of the drugs were legalized, then they would HAVE to move trade. Yes some of them are already involved in these crimes, but not all. Also the ones that are involved in drugs and other crimes will have lost a huge amount of income when drugs are legalized, so they are going to need to fight and do all kinds of illegal things to get back that income.

    Personally I would make certain drugs legal and reduce the sentencing of having personal amounts on others, plus rehabilitation for those found with 'physically addictive drugs' such as heroin or meth. I think it is totally ridiculous that LSD and ecstasy are even in the same category as heroin and meth, that is ludicrous.

  13. Pongsapat said the best way to tackle the crisis was to reduce the demand. "To solve the problem, we must emphasise reducing the demand. This will only succeed with proper campaigns; the dissemination of information and through coordination with local police and communities.".

    IMHO, the "demand" for drugs is determined by "quality of life". If you want to reduce the demand, you need to figure out why people are unhappy with their lives; education about the dangers of drug abuse is going to have little impact. Why are many Thais unhappy with their lives? Gee....could it be that many work 6 days a week at menial, mind numbing jobs and have to live apart from their spouses in order to procure work? Could it be that the Thai society is one that is based on "class" structure and if you are in the lower class there is little to no possibility of escape? Could it be that there is no equality in the eyes of the law and only those with money can "afford" justice?

    Just some of my thoughts.

    Far too simplistic, we all know examples of well to do people who are drug users.

    The only answer is legalization, not only here in Thailand but Worldwide. People are being dragged into criminality at all stratas of society and it's encouraging even more lawlessness and desperate acts.

    Let the major companies produce the product at a consistent level, and let the governments take a tax cut that can be used to promote rehabilitation for those that want it.

    The current situation is unsustainable, prohibition is useless.

    As much as I can see why legalization makes more sense than what is going on at the moment (punishing people for minor things, crowding prisons, not really addressing the issue, creating a taxable commodity etc), I think there are still a few problems with it.

    First of all, where do you draw the line? Who is to say what is right or wrong, if you legalize weed, mushrooms, and ecstasy, you will have all of the criminals who were once selling these substances moving onto selling things like heroin and meth, or maybe they will move to other crimes like fraud or whatever. Criminals are going to do crime, that is their trade and what they know, so where do you draw the line and say what is against the law to take and what isn't?

    Secondly I really have a problem with a lot of tax money heading towards ANY government, I have come to see major holes in pretty much any government and I would rather let them and the state become bled dry than become richer. Do you honestly think that governments will take all or most of that tax money to help junkies with rehabilitation? Don't get me wrong, I think rehabilitation is probably the best way to address an addiction, but governments are the major mafias of this world and are corrupt to the core.

    Then you come to the question that addresses the idea of what will happen to the population, will there be a huge increase in substance use just because it is legal? One main reason I refrain from using drugs in Thailand is because the punishments are so harsh that it is not worth it IMO, also because the quality is poor, but if things like mushrooms, LSD, ecstasy and weed were legal, I know I would be using them from time to time. Do we really want a place where people are potentially under the influence of such things whilst driving our public transport or doing their jobs?

    Lastly like I said before, the criminals will move on to other crimes, this could be racketeering, loan sharking, fraud, kidnapping, murder for hire, you name it they will move towards it as the major players are criminals at heart and won't go and find a 9-5 job in an office somewhere.

  14. Pretty much nothing will help in this situation, that is the bottom line. The human species throughout history has been seduced by all kinds of intoxicants ranging from psychedelic mushrooms, alcohol, opium to meth and ecstasy. The fact is that the vast majority of people like to engage in altering their state of mind from time to time either by legal or illegal means.

    So on that basis there will always be a demand, thus there will always be a supply, naturally. They can bust and bust and bust until their busting balls are black and blue, somebody else will fill their shoes and take their place if there is a substantial profit to be made, it is a war they will not ever win.

    The only thing they can do is to educate people on the dangers of substances and to be freaking logical about the situation, put money in the better direction rather than the pointless one. If those people who have been educated still choose to get wrapped up in substance abuse, then there should be adequate rehabilitation readily available to the public for free, yes I said it, for free. Also punishing people for lesser offenses like having a little bit of personal weed or a couple of yaba pills just crowds prisons and ruins lives.
    "yes you use yaba, instead of helping the situation we will throw you in prison where you will have the ability to take more drugs, get sick, get depressed, cause your family and loved ones to be depressed because that is the best thing to do"
    Actually no it isn't that is a stupid action to take. Rehabilitation and then probation should be the way forward, but changing an entire nations ideology and view point is something near impossible.

  15. The only good thing about Hua Hin is that it's not Pattaya, with CM, yes it cheaper

    than most other foreigner's populated areas but the air pollutions from the burning

    of crops and traffic congestions that become no unusual to be stuck in, put

    the kybosh on the place.

    Actually Hua Hin is great for multiple reasons that in all honesty deserve to be mentioned and surpass 'not Pattaya'. Firstly it is only two and a half hours South of Bangkok so has easy access to the capital. This subsequently gives easy access to other parts of Thailand and Phetkashem Rd that runs through it gives great access to the South and North. Hua Hin is a lot less seedy and dirty than Pattaya, even though it has lady bar scene it is pretty much sectioned off in it's own little area and easily avoidable if one does not wish to frequent it. You can go to all of the markets, restaurants, temples and beaches without being hassled and shouted at by a lady boy.

    I have only ever seen violence once in the four years I have been here in Hua Hin, and that was between some drunk Thai teenagers. I think that because HH is seen as a certain someone's favourite place in the Kingdom, generally speaking Thai people respect that and do not wish to bring trouble to this part of the country.

    The inner part of HH is quite dense and has a lot to offer, however you do not need to travel far in any direction to either head into the hills for solitude and great views, the countryside that surrounds HH Westward or along the coastline finding more secluded beach locations North and South.

    There are many markets, temples, vineyards, national parks and loads more within an hour driving distance. In my opinion Hua Hin has a lot more to offer than simply 'not being Pattaya' and it is the reason why I have spent 95% of my time in Thailand here. Places that are highly revered for retirement and for family vacations are not given this label for no reason at all.

    hua-hin_olt-March-2011.jpg

  16. extention of stays at $2 a day is double just renewing your visa every month, you can get a 1 year multi entry visa if you have a connection $35X 12 $420, not a lot of western style rooms and apartments available and those are somewhat overpriced, doubt if you can get anything close to what you pay in Hua Hin, and a monthly visa takes 1 1/4 pages per month so they fill your passport up pretty quick, no Tesco lotus 7-11 or any supermarkets so its different there, but good beer, good golf in Vientiane, and decent nightlife as well, but out of the bigger cities its quite primative

    To be honest I am not too bothered about western style rooms and at the moment I am in a pretty nice guesthouse for 5,000฿ a month and the electricity and water comes to about 600฿. Anything in that price range would be fine tbh, as long has it has a bed, fridge, internet and somewhere to shower I am not too bothered.

    If they do not have any tesco or 7/11 stores I assume everything is bought at markets? That is not much of an issue as I by most of my things at markets as it is, I prefer the quality of the produce that way. I don't play golf but good to know ;) and I am not too much into clubs anymore, I once was an avid clubber and raver but not anymore, a pub or restaurant will suffice. Also my passport has seen better days as there was an incident a couple of years ago involving it, a drunk friend and the ocean, so getting a new one is no problem and I know it isn't too much of a task to do these days.

    I have a few questions still come to think about it if people can fill me on them that would be great.

    >Are there pharmacies easy to access in and around the towns?

    >I have a motorbike, can I ride it legally in Laos?

    >Also still the question about work, what type of jobs could I apply for and my Thai girlfriend, I assume finding work for her would not be too difficult? She is from Issan so can speak a dialect similar to Laotian as it is.

  17. having just travlled to Laos via Chaing Kong- Meung sing- Luang Namtha- Luaang Prabang- Phonsavan- Vientainne.

    internet everywhere , not as fast as Thailand but good enough

    If u just are into relaxing an having a drink on the river an slow way of life Luang Prabang or Vientainne would be fine,

    plenty of good inexpensive gh's ($10-20 for air con and wifi) less for fan

    plenty of decent local and western rests with good food from $3-7/meal

    As far as work, ..... i know a few people that do work up there but all got their jobs before they arrived

    LP -Vientainne is an 8-10 hour bus ride

    Thank you very much for this information :)

    Back in my home country and when I first came to Thailand I was really quite reckless, I would party a lot and do a lot of things you would expect somebody in their teens and early 20's to do, but now at age 25 I have totally flipped on that. I would love to just relax next to the Mekong and get on with whatever I happen to be doing. I don't mind fan rooms to be honest and I am one of the lucky few who do not get bitten by mosquito's.

    I would expect that I will probably get the train up to Non kai and then enter into Vientainne then and stay there for a while and see what it's like. I assume a lot of guesthouses, like in Thailand have a price per day and also a price for monthly stays which often works out more value for money?

    One last question to you Phuketrichard, the people you know who already had jobs secured before heading that way, what were the jobs that they had? Do you literally inquire over the internet to get a sponsor for such a thing?

    To note, basically I can see the way Thailand is heading, especially where I live in Hua Hin. Yes it is a nice contrast of tourism and keeping things cultural, but it is expanding at such a rapid rate and has a huge influx of tourists that seems to grow each year. I would prefer to get away from all of that and remain somewhere with more solitude. I also hear that beer Lao is a lot nicer than any beer or larger in Thailand, I am pretty sure Thailand produces the worst beer in SE Asia :P

  18. It seems that those who agree with this sentencing by the Malaysian justice system only have the argument that the sellers knew the risk they were taking, so too bad. Logically, that's true, but can they really not see the absolute injustice of killing somebody for selling a substance that is clearly and truly less damaging than alcohol? I wish the people who have apparently been terribly indoctrinated (i.e. brainwashed) by their governments about weed would take the time to understand the history of the "demonization" of cannabis and realize that it is illegal due to political motivation and business interests -- not for reasons that have anything to do with protecting society. It's so sad to see this type of attitude in this day and age.

    To be quite honest with you, I would suggest that the vast majority of the things government do is surrounded by business interest and financial gain, not the well being of the nations. Sometimes it may appear to be for the good of the people, but that is only a mask.

    My feelings on this are that it is a wasted life and a sad end, she obviously needed the money and fell into desperate ways. Her kids are no going to be without a mum and who knows where dad is, and for what, because she was found with 8 KGs of weed! Yes she probably knew what she was getting herself into but I am sure at the back of her mind was her kids, food, shelter, and generally being able to set up a better life for the 3 of them. These laws and punishments should change with the development of the countries, as they come out of being a 3rd world country, so should their laws. WAKE UP!

  19. $35/month for visa is not to bad

    Cambodia is $285 for a 1 year visa ( $23.75/month)

    speaking lao is somewhat similar but......diferent ( writing is not the same)

    I was just up there last week for 2 weeks an all over the country.

    why are u thinking of moving there?

    not much to do.

    After 4 trips in the past 3 years with my car cant see moving from Thailand to there unless you had a good job to keep u busy.

    Note; hope u like Chinese people too as they are all over the country

    Not really looking to do crazy things, my days of doing crazy things are over, I like a quiet meal with a few drinks, a bike ride, reading, these kinds of things. I have burnt myself out quickly and have fashioned myself into a middle aged man already somehow. I also have no problems with ethnicity, it would make logical sense for there to be a lot of Chinese people there considering how close it is to China. There are quite a few Chinese or 50-50 Thai and Chinese here though anyway, my best friend is half Thai and half Chinese.

    I can speak Thai pretty much fluently but I can only read and write a little, so the fact that Laotian is written quite differently doesn't matter :)

    I wondering still what would be best for an extended stay, monthly visa run or trying to get a job, doing something :/ I have no idea what though. Can you suggest any places that would be good to go and stay in for the first month or 2? How is the internet in hotels and guest houses over there as well if anybody can shed some light on that?

  20. $35/month for visa is not to bad

    Cambodia is $285 for a 1 year visa ( $23.75/month)

    speaking lao is somewhat similar but......diferent ( writing is not the same)

    I was just up there last week for 2 weeks an all over the country.

    why are u thinking of moving there?

    not much to do.

    After 4 trips in the past 3 years with my car cant see moving from Thailand to there unless you had a good job to keep u busy.

    Note; hope u like Chinese people too as they are all over the country

    Not really looking to do crazy things, my days of doing crazy things are over, I like a quiet meal with a few drinks, a bike ride, reading, these kinds of things. I have burnt myself out quickly and have fashioned myself into a middle aged man already somehow. I also have no problems with ethnicity, it would make logical sense for there to be a lot of Chinese people there considering how close it is to China. There are quite a few Chinese or 50-50 Thai and Chinese here though anyway, my best friend is half Thai and half Chinese.

    I can speak Thai pretty much fluently but I can only read and write a little, so the fact that Laotian is written quite differently doesn't matter :)

    I wondering still what would be best for an extended stay, monthly visa run or trying to get a job, doing something :/ I have no idea what though. Can you suggest any places that would be good to go and stay in for the first month or 2? How is the internet in hotels and guest houses over there as well if anybody can shed some light on that?

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