palm

I am really looking forward to seeing the black-ops operation map, photos and video for 'Operation Stool Fool'.

thailand truly is "amazing".......lol

other than food and ladies, this place has no redeeming value

"I don't see foreigners returning to Thailand any time in the near future. Markets now have no confidence in the government."

Asia markets rebound, but Thai credibility hurt

Abrupt policy shift undermines investor faith in Thailand's new government.

December 20 2006: 7:05 AM EST

BANGKOK (Reuters) -- Thai shares bounced back on Wednesday from their biggest sell-off in 16 years after the government back-pedaled on currency controls, but the abrupt policy U-turn shattered confidence in its economic chiefs.

The stock market, which plunged 14.8 percent on Tuesday - its biggest one-day drop since Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 - ended 11.2 percent higher after the army-appointed government exempted stock buying from controls on short-term currency inflows just a day after imposing them.

Elsewhere in Asia, Hong Kong's Hang Seng gained 1.45 percent and the HSCC Red Chip fell 1.76 percent. Japan's Nikkei 225 gained 1.40 percent, while China's Shanghai Composite gained 0.38 percent.

The stunning about-face in Thailand in the wake of a foreigner-led rout that knocked $23 billion off Asia's worst-performing bourse this year rekindled memories of the 1997/98 Asian financial crisis and brought howls of derision from analysts.

"The one thing worse than an incompetent central bank is an incompetent central bank that flip-flops," said Bratin Sanyal, head of Asian equity investments at ING in Hong Kong.

Domestic investors were equally scathing in their criticism of the technocrats appointed by the military leaders who ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in a Sept. 19 coup.

"I'm stunned. They are truly incapable. Please, get the hel_l out," said 35-year-old businessman Chan Pornpipatkul.

The rally, spearheaded by big-cap stocks such as oil-and-gas firm PTT PCL and Bangkok Bank - owned in part by the foreigners who stampeded for the exit on Tuesday - was the market's biggest one-day jump since February 1998.

But most of the buyers were Thai, as international investors continued their retreat, selling a net $81 million of shares to go with the $700 million they dumped on Tuesday.

"Investor hel_l"Despite its recovery, the index was still 5 percent lower than when the Bank of Thailand (BoT) announced on Monday a drastic assault on the speculators it blamed for catapulting the currency 16 percent higher in 2006 against the dollar.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF), describing the baht measures as "too strong and far-reaching," welcomed the decision late on Tuesday to lift the restrictions for equity investments.

But by then Thailand's reputation in the eyes of international investors was in tatters.

IDEAglobal headlined a research note "Tourists' haven, investors' hel_l," as analysts poured scorn on Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula and his successor as central bank chief, Tarisa Watanagase, both appointed after the coup.

"They are proving themselves to be very unprofessional. Their actions are very irresponsible. They have totally lost credibility," said Catherine Tan, head of Asia Emerging Markets at Forecast in Singapore.

"I don't see foreigners returning to Thailand any time in the near future. Markets now have no confidence in the government."

Tarisa, appointed just two months ago, agreed with her former boss that equity investments should have been exempted from the rules and admitted that the sell-off had taken them by surprise.

"We had to reverse the measures as the market reacted more than we expected," she told reporters.

ABN AMRO cut its investment rating on Thailand to "underweight" and questioned how the economy was being run in the aftermath of the coup, Thailand's 18th in 74 years.

"Policy decision-making seems to be at odds with the workings of capital markets," the investment bank said.

Intervention questionedThe sell-off sparked brief fears of a repeat of the 1997/98 Asian financial crisis, triggered by a baht devaluation, and prompted falls in stock markets in the region, though they also recovered on Wednesday.

Bond yields were largely steady in Thailand's secondary market on Wednesday, with those on the long end falling slightly after central bank intervention, dealers said. Yields had jumped 20-40 basis points across the board on Tuesday.

"Why did they intervene in the bond market today? They should have known bond markets would fall after the baht measure," Forecast's Tan said.

The baht, the strongest Asian currency against the dollar this year, was trading around 35.8 per dollar, a decline of around 2 percent from Monday's 9-1/2-year high that triggered the BoT's leap to the defense of exporters.

The curbs were designed to rein in the baht's rise by forcing speculators to keep their money in the country for at least a year or face a hefty 10 percent penalty.

Trade-related deals and repatriation of funds by Thai residents were excluded. Pridiyathorn added equity-related transactions to the exclusions late on Tuesday.

Exporters had welcomed the curbs because a rising baht makes their goods less competitive on world markets and could reduce earnings repatriated from overseas.

Read some of our earlier - now closed - posts. Are you related to coco the clown?

bingobongo you've been 'found out' (aka kokothemonkey)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...5&start=175

Moderators, are there any TV rules about not allowing people to post under multiple Ids?

"keep trying backflip keep trying, vietnam banking system is on verge of collapse due to rampant inflation and once vietnam circles the bowl, the rest of asia will take it on the chin"

Vietnam is hardly the financial backbone of Asia.

"inflation is rampant in LOS as well, and interest rates will rise, do not let your frustration pollute your thinking"

Inflation is not rampant, and I'm not frustrated by anything. You're frustrated because your partner wants you to buy him a home, and you're doing everything possible to not support him.

"dont hate me backflip because i am right, hate yourself because you are wrong"

I don't hate you bingobongo, evidently you have an unwarranted sense of self-importance. On the other hand, every single one of your predictions regarding the economy, real estate, and finace (whether in Thailand or anywhere else), has been absolutely, comically, and completely wrong. Only if I followed your financial advice would I hate myself.

Following on from the guy who found out bingobongo posting hundreds of anti-Thailand gibberish, he states:

-----------

My wife has family in Thailand, but I have no intention to emmigrate to Thailand as finding work their as a "farang" would be impossible given the new visa requirements. signs-wallbash.gif My wife bought a condo in 2005 signs-wallbash.gif so I am interested in seeing how much it has fallen in value. It has taken her 18 months to find a tennant. It is located in the Thonglor section. I reside in the US.

Koko

---------

He's a Moderator of a site called globalhousepricecrash.com! as kokothemonkey

Here's the thread - http://forum.globalhousepricecrash.com/ind...50&start=50 - wow literally HUNDREDS of disgruntled posts by him on the same thread!

So bongo, what have you got to say now?

I've enjoyed reading all the comments on this particular thread. Just one thing ......

bingo bongo - i strongly believe you also post messages as "koko the monkey" on this forum ( link attached ) .

http://forum.globalhousepricecrash.com/ind...1279&st=350

One that is exclusively pessimistic about global house prices .

And looks very much like this forum , which of course may just be a coincidence .

Good reading .

Great detective work! It's now easy to see why he's so bitter. An expat who clearly got his fingers badly burnt in Thailand. Maybe we can ask Thaivisa to set up a collection of unwanted clothes or food stamps or something? At the next ThaiVisa gathering, maybe we could organise a raffle?

keep trying backflip keep trying, vietnam banking system is on verge of collapse due to rampant inflation and once vietnam circles the bowl, the rest of asia will take it on the chin

inflation is rampant in LOS as well, and interest rates will rise, do not let your frustration pollute your thinking

dont hate me backflip because i am right, hate yourself because you are wrong

lol, more advice from the person who was saying all the 'smart money' was going to Vietnam.

How soon we forget.

Say I rent a home for 35,000bht per month over 30 years = 12.6 million baht. The same home is for sale for 9.6million Bht at the moment. so if I rent I would be paying an additional 3 million bht.

That's assuming the rent stays at 35,000 baht a month for 30 years.

I would like to sound proof the aircon room in my BKK condo. Its a walk in door and its the door area that needs it. Any ideas anyone?

Look at soundstop.net - they have some good materials I've used before. Homepro also sell a limited range of soundproofing material.

Isn't there a nice Italian place that's relatively pricey somewhere on Saladaeng?

I was trying to remember its name, too, but can’t. Starting with a Z, I believe.

--

Maestro

Zanotti - one of Bangkok's best Italians, and usually very busy.

Le Banyan French Restaurant in Suk soi 8 is my favorite romantic spot - about 4,000 baht including a couple of drinks.

the power of delusion truly is amazing, first it happened in Japan, now the US, UK, Spain, Vietnam, and now Taiwan..........what makes LOS immune from the pain? bar girls? coups? unstable gvt? inflation? i think not, taiwan has a stronger economy than LOS so get ready......

LOS is not "special" and will not be immune from real estate pain just becasue you want it to be.....................and soon the BOT will raise rates

Taiwan Real Estate Experts To Sound Alarm Over Housing

Some economists believe that the overheated market caused by speculation and the popularity of real estate as an investment has left residential property prices artifically inflated by about 30 per cent.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080519/3/16wtk.html?ref=patrick.net

Sheesh, some of your posts are so unbelievably naive. If people actually read your previous posts and followed your economic advice, they'd be in the same poorhouse are you appear to be now. No wonder you keep posting dozens of anti-Thailand and anti-expat claptrap so often.

Most foreigners in Thailand buy their properties outright. They are not home-debtors, they paid cash. They have also seen massive gains in the Baht's value over the past few years. Steel prices are skyrocketing, prime land prices here are also skyrocketing.

You clearly don't own anything in Thailand, so its funny to see your constant, desperate postings on a forum dedicated to a country you don't even live in.

In today's lesson we will....

yawwwwwnnnnn...

Come on, come on !

I can't be the only one waiting with baited-breath for Bingo Bongo's next lesson

Yes, its always funny being lectured to by bingobongo, sitting there in his cardboard box and wearing old newspapers for clothes. My theory is he was born ginger.

Let's face it, 90% of the films that are produced are s**t anyway. Franchises, cover versions and CGI tinsel.

Let Hollywood lose a few quid.

I would not buy the 'dross' at the full price anyway. Financial harm to the studios only occurs when someone who would have bought the original, buys the fake instead.

The studios have had the opportunity to package general-release DVDs in high-quality packaging for years, but most are stripped down to the lowest possible cost of production, so visually they look exactly the same as fakes anyway.

Just looked at the Elite card website again and now I see its a "bargain" price up to 1.5 million from 1 million , no 5 year visa just some 90 day extension or something Oh and a 30 year life too, wow if i was looking for somewhere to feel Elite Thailand would be at the bottom of the list with this " fantastic offer" Great marketing!! Buy now while stocks last hurry hurry hurry. How about all the original members do they still get the 5 years visa I know there were a few here? Grandfathered in or what?

Its limited to 30 years if you SELL the card to someone else. Otherwise it is a lifetime membership (until you die).

It is still a 5 year renewable Visa for life (until you die). You only have to report every 90 days, no need to leave the country at all if you don't want to. Makes traveling in and out of Thailand a breeze too.

How do I know this? I just visited them last week them to inquire about the card.

I looked on their website for this info and could not find it at all (5 year visa etc), They have upgraded thier website and my connection here Hua Hin is slow . Did you get it in writing?

Yes.

My contact there is Rattanawadee Wongtee, Senior Network Relations, Elite International (Europe).

I got their brochure and a letter from them clarifying everything.

I currently have the Investment Visa, but am almost certain I'll get the card later this year before I have to renew my Investment Visa.

Just looked at the Elite card website again and now I see its a "bargain" price up to 1.5 million from 1 million , no 5 year visa just some 90 day extension or something Oh and a 30 year life too, wow if i was looking for somewhere to feel Elite Thailand would be at the bottom of the list with this " fantastic offer" Great marketing!! Buy now while stocks last hurry hurry hurry. How about all the original members do they still get the 5 years visa I know there were a few here? Grandfathered in or what?

lol, nothing like getting it completely wrong. The Elite card offers a LIFETIME VISA (until you pop your clogs). You do need to report every 90 days to immigration, counted from the time you last entered Thailand. The Visa stamp in your passport lasts 5 years, after that you renew it for free.

It's also a lifetime Visa, not 30 years - if you SELL the card to someone else, the service is LIMITED to 30 years.

Their marketing indeed sucks, but the hilarious spread of false information on a forum dedicated to 'Thailand VISA issues' just frankly shows how many foreigners there are here who cannot justify the cost of buying one for themselves. If the card was just 250,000 baht I am sure many of you would still moan about it.

If you want a lifetime stay in Thailand, are under 50, are not married and have plenty of cash, then the Elite card offers hassle-free permanent stay in Thailand.

Why not give them a call, or go visit them to get the facts yourself?

None of the fluent Thai speakers I know have your "blank stare problem" when speaking Thai: I suggest you might reflect why this is so.

I often notice two Thais who are from different parts of the country will have a great bit of difficulty understanding each other

Very true. I've seen this quite often. Thais having to repeat something to another Thai, and sometimes changing the words, to get the other Thai to understand them.

A bit like trying to have a conversation with some Glaswegians, who speak 'English' but not the form of English I am used to.

So what happens after 90 days? Is it just a normal 90 day report that you would do on any other stay of over 90 days, or do you need to pay 1900 baht and get an extension of stay for an additional 90 days? I have people that are telling me that they have had the TE card for 2 years, and they say they need to pay 1900 baht every 90 days to get an extension of stay. This would not make any sense. It would make it no better then flying to the UK and getting a multi non-O from Hull for a year, or just getting a multi non-B visa from the US.

It really surprises me that otherwise astute buisness people seem to fail to grasp this

Add up the cost of flying decent long-haul Business Class or First Class (i.e. Singapore Airlines) to the US or UK for the next TEN YEARS. (in my case 13 years until I can apply for a retirement visa). Take into account inflation at say a measly 3%.

Then add the cost of a decent hotel, and the loss of time and the inconvenience of going to some grim part of the UK to pick up a visa.

The cost is far, far higher than the cost of the Elite card.

How unfortunate.... I was hoping that on my once in a while visits to the forum that some sense of reality may have settled in, but as usual the Thai bubble is continuing on apace and everyone it seems feels nicely insulated from the goings on in the outside world. How lucky for you all that you are so naive, as when the sh*tstorm happens it will barely register on your smiling faces.

I can report that things outside the universe of Thailand are going from bad to worse quicker than you can say "Jehosephat", house prices in the UK predicted to drop by a minmum of 20% this year alone and bottoming out at 50% of current values by many commentators. The USA may be in an even worse situation. But then this should have little effect on anyone in Thailand should it. Of course if the thousands of factories now closing in China who once supplied the USA are the only problem facing the Chinese economy then that shouldn't be a problem either should it? Neither should the beginning of a property crash in India!

No you're alright Jack!!

And of course the doubling of the price of rice on the world market in the past 3 months can only be good for Thailand as exports rocket, here, nevermind that it will mean prices doubling in the shops and restaurants as well, no none of it matters, Thailand will be fine as always and you'll all carry on as before, making lots and lots of mney, drinking beer and watching the sun go down over your last development.

I wish I was you right now I really do!

ourmanflint, I enjoyed the flint movies back in the 60's and for the most part I enjoyed your insightful post which is basically spot on. The only part where I think that you might have gone astray is your view of the U.S. real estate market. The worst is about over for the U.S. and there were only selected areas of double digit declines like in California, Vegas, Phoenix, Florida and Ohio, but keep in mind that many of these same areas saw a doubling of real estate values between 2004-2006. Those who bought before 2004 (the vast majority of U.S. homeowners) in the aforementioned areas are enjoying quite sizeable gains in their home values still, despite the recent 30% haircut in some of those areas. As you noted, China and India are going through their cycle of irrational exeuberance, and the eventual "end of the party" will soon be here and the hangover could have some substantial repercussions, particularly for the S.E. asian basin. Sadly countries like Thailand whose populace can least afford the ravages of out of control commodity inflation, are being and will continue to be hit the hardest. I think that the foolish ethynol policy in the U.S. coupled with the puposeful weakening of the U.S. dollar to mitigate trade imbalances has caused havoc in the rest of the world and I hope the next U.S. president ditches this assinine ethynol policy and reigns in spending so the dollar can continue its recent strengthening, thereby putting downward pressure on oil prices. I agree with you about what I have dubbed the "lollipops and roses brigade" here on TV, it seems no matter what facts they are presented with, the real estate market is always booming in Thailand and inflation is always a non issue. Alas, those rose colored glasses that Palm and some of the others have on will have to come off eventually as the hard reality of the situation will hit them in the face like a tsunami

I don't think the equivalent cost of a high end car in the west will bother PALM (nor me) at all; this is something to deeply consider. IMO - this is now about what you choose to do with the remainder of your life. OK if you are fleeing to a cheaper alternative I understand the point, and there was bravery in the decision, but given the courage required anyone who now finds Thailand expensive will need to find the next step and maybe to broaden their horizons - where is the next 'cheap and tolerant country’ that you can buy freehold in? I haven’t seen it yet.

PKRV, I am not sure if you are replying to me or ourmanflint, in either case its difficult to make any sense of your post. First of all what does the cost of a high end car in the west have to do with the economic downturn and the recent skyrocketing inflation in Thailand? Secondly, when I referenced the populace of Thailand who can least afford the recent inflation, I was refering to the millions of Thai citizens who are still living in third world circumstances and whose lives are severely impacted by the recent commodity inflation (much of which has been caused by insane agriculture and treasury department policy in the U.S. as I noted). Finally, if Thailand is getting too expensive for you as an expat then I really feel sorry for you, because even with the recent inflation I would imagine that Thailand must still be a very inexpensive place to live as a western expat, as for my wife and I, we live in Sedona Arizona and we wouldn't trade Sedona for any place in the world, with that said if the new Thai government seems to stabilize the country then we might reconsider picking up a vacation home in Chiang Mai. Do try and loosen up a bit PKRV and try not to be so defensive in the future, you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, I hope that things improve for you and Palm shortly

VegasVic, you talk in riddles. I'm 36 years old. 80% of my assets are outside of Thailand. I retired at 28. I have a Thai son. I love living Thailand; I travel extensively business class and sometimes first. What is your problem exactly? What is it exactly that is supposed to be bad for people who have chosen to live in Thailand exactly?

Guys like prkv and myself bought in Thailand because we like it here. I can't think of anywhere worse to live in the world than in a trailer park next to VegasVic. Everyone knows Arizona is the place for people who can't afford to live in California.

Maybe you can tell us your age, your yearly income after tax, and your total asset value and we can see what a pillar of economic wisdom you are.

The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon.

Notwithstanding that palm, it is kinda hard to defend a product which has increased 50% in price with seemingly no added benefits.

Not really sure I can agree with this statement. I mean, the benefits have more or less remained the same since its introduction about 5 years ago

Ummmmmm. . . no they haven't. They've decreased. Have you not read the article posted by sriricha john.

Having read richardsmith's rather creative and desperate explanation of his 'savings', I'm rather inclined to include him as one of those who have bought it and will do anything they can to justify the expense.

I could afford it, no problem. But it offers nothing I value that I don't already have as matter of course.

Yes Bendix you are exactly right. But for those not married, under 50, or working for a Thai company, seeking the hassle-free ability to come in and out of Thailand, our options are very limited.

Do any other nice countries offer such a scheme? A one-off payment for a lifetime visa without limitations on entry?

For me the benefit of the card will be a lifetime visa - I am well under 50, not married, have a kid here, and 'retired'. It seems anyone else in that 'bracket' has limited options for long term stay in Thailand? I currently have the Investment Visa, which is fine for right now.

I really don't see the big deal of putting aside about 6 weeks of spare income to buy something that gives me maybe 50+ years of hassle-free entry into Thailand?

It's got to be the very best possible 'visa' available to foreigners.

How do I know this? I just visited them last week them to inquire about the card.

I dropped by the Elite office on North Sathorn Rd a couple of days ago and met two reps from the company.

Do they have nice complimentary cookies and coffee at their offices? Is that why you go there weekly?

Sheeesh there are are bitter people on ThaiVisa. I've been to see the Thailand Elite people once to get some FACTS, which is something ThaiVisa is particularly lacking in with regards to this visa on offer.

But then the Elite card scheme is clearly not designed for the great unwashed hoards of riff-raff that seem to view Thais and Thailand with contempt, so I can see why it upsets some so much.

No one should be ashamed to be bilingual. If you can speak Thai or English, then speak them. Your child is not going to reject the Thai language just because you speak it.

Exactly!

inflation sure is powerful but then reality sets in and the denial can no longer mask reality, dont get emotionally involved with 4 walls and plaster

anyway, to the dreamers (aka homedebtors) and realists, holding wheat, gold and oil (which are all easier to sell investments (unlike overbuilt Thai housing)) would have given you a better rate of return.....

oversupply of housing ....check

poor construction of housing....check

property loan defaults rising....check

loose property lending standards.....check

out of contol inflation.....check

builder complaints rising.....check

BOT holding rates steady and more likely to raise rates to stem inflation (rather than cut)......check

Gloomy Days Ahead for Asia's Housing Markets

Wheat was up 160% in March 2008 on a year earlier; soy bean oil by 104%, corn by 37%, and sugar by 26%.

The housing markets most likely to be affected by monetary tightening seem to be China, India, Singapore, Philippines and Thailand, which have experienced the largest increases in inflation.

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=6482

It's very clear from your constant anti-Thailand rants that you view buying a house or condo in Thailand as an investment? If that's truly the case, your finances must really be in terrible shape.

Maybe if you were a bit smarter you'd have enough money to just buy properties that take your fancy with cash, instead of whining like a bitter foreigner in every post you make.

What's your point? This is not your country. Do you think you have a god-given right to be here?

You did not read my post correctly ; or may be my English is not too clear...

I have nothing against thai immigration rules.

Thailand defined the rules and I have to accept them. Point

My post was against some members here who just can't stop repeat here again and again : "Follow the rules and you can stay here without problem".

They just forget that some categories of people are excluded from these rules, and I am in one of them... I can follow all the rules that are, but I will have to wait to be old (50+ ) to stop 90 days visa runs...

Pattaya46

Just buy an Elite card and you can stay in Thailand indefinitely - great for those under 50 who are not married but have 'retired'. If you are retired at 45, spending 1.5m baht should be easy for you?

The Elite card issue seems to be winding up a lot of people though - I think 1.5mb baht to be able to stay in a foreign country indefinitely for life is frankly a very sweet deal, and to avoid all the visa runs too.

Just looked at the Elite card website again and now I see its a "bargain" price up to 1.5 million from 1 million , no 5 year visa just some 90 day extension or something Oh and a 30 year life too, wow if i was looking for somewhere to feel Elite Thailand would be at the bottom of the list with this " fantastic offer" Great marketing!! Buy now while stocks last hurry hurry hurry. How about all the original members do they still get the 5 years visa I know there were a few here? Grandfathered in or what?

Its limited to 30 years if you SELL the card to someone else. Otherwise it is a lifetime membership (until you die).

It is still a 5 year renewable Visa for life (until you die). You only have to report every 90 days, no need to leave the country at all if you don't want to. Makes traveling in and out of Thailand a breeze too.

How do I know this? I just visited them last week them to inquire about the card.

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

Buy an Elite card. Simple. Just 1.5m baht and you can stay in Thailand forever never having to leave again.