OldGringo

It's hard to take issue with your main points.

The spectre you raise of a revivial of the death squads may be a little over the top.

But then again it may not be.

Anyway, don't dwell on it. You'll have the greenhorns peeing in their boots. Songkran will seem dry by comparison.

I also think you've overstated the economic plight of the recent newcomers.

The middle-classes of the US and Europe have taken a financial hit lately, no question about that. But I don't think it's as bad as you imply.

They come here because their money goes farther. Not because they face any real deprivation in their own countries.

In terms of social services most of them probably sacrifice a lot by living here.

The younger among them are no doubt fleeing nanny-state laws that curtail their freedoms and make living in those countries such a crushing bore.

You can't even ride in the back of a pick-up truck anymore.

Developments like that even Orwell and Kafka were unable to foretell.

Is it any wonder they want to get away?

And climate surely plays some part. Many of the places farangs come from are a cold-hell for much of the year. The rest of the time often rainy and sunless.

Amid such gloom, thoughts of a land of perpetual summer must act like rocket fuel on their fantasies.

Go for the sun... go for the pussy... but go!

The comparison you make with the present plague of farangs and the [virtual] occupation of Thailand by the US Military is excellent.

Although a proud Artful Dodger myself, I had a lot of friends among the many, mostly Airforce guys who stayed on and settled here in the late 70's.

As physical specimens the two groups couldn't have been any more different.

The GI's were prime examples of young manhood. Even the middle-aged officers were fit and healthy looking.

The tourists who followed were a mixed bag. The full spectrum of humanity. The whole banquet... everything from fruit to nuts.

Otherwise, similarities and dissimilarities could be discussed ad infinitum.

Sink them all. The important point you make is that the Thais finally couldn't take it anymore and expelled the lot of them.

Could it happen again?

Tune in again next week.

In the meantime our leading ladies are getting nose-jobs and eyes sawng-chahn really pee-set.

Just for you. You hansum man!

You need a sense of humour, Bro.

Maybe you've been in Thailand too long.

It can do strange things to people.

Many of the posters on this Forum are prime examples.

The "Blue Angel" reference was to a classic 1930 German film by Josef Von Sternberg.

The plot is about a respected professor who becomes besotted with Lola [Marlene Dietrich] a cheap nightclub dancer who subquently degrades him in various ways until he loses everything and becomes a cabaret clown.

I've seen similar things play out in a Thai context so often that I couldn't resist using it as a metaphor.

Do you have any stories to tell about old trolls and young Thai girls?

I'm all ears!

For that I might have to delve into the "personal" archive, and I'd rather not go there.

The "Blue Angel" reference was to a classic 1930 German film by Josef Von Sternberg.

The plot is about a respected professor who becomes besotted with Lola [Marlene Dietrich] a cheap nightclub dancer who subquently degrades him in various ways until he loses everything and becomes a cabaret clown.

I've seen similar things play out in a Thai context so often that I couldn't resist using it as a metaphor.

There was a story out a few days ago that said the goverment was talking about raising the foreign ownership percentage in condominiums to 70% from 49%... or whatever it is now.

If that goes through, which it probably will, the actual foreign ownership will be as close to 100% as makes no difference.

At least that will make it easier to calculate demographics.

But however you figure it I think we're a long way from 33%.

There may have been some motive for quoting such a grossly inflated figure.

Farang-only ownership and or occupation of condominium buildings and moo-bahns might not be such a bad thing.

It would further reduce the often contentious interaction between them and local Thais.

The farangs who are overwhelming Chiang Mai at present are totally incapable of integrating or assimilating in any meaningful way. They just don't have the background. And even if they did, their sheer numbers would preclude it.

Middle-class mediocrities who are trying to re-establish lifestyles shattered by mass third-world immigration and the resulting economic and social decline in their own countries. They can't afford to live the way they used to anymore. So they come here.

And the retirees... old farts who have spent their lives as wage-slaves in mind-numbing jobs are suddenly emancipated into a country they were only vaguely aware of until recently.

The easy avaliability of girls on the game to entertain these old goats makes a "Blue Angel" scenario almost inevitable.

Given this situation the 100% ownership solution would be to everyones advantage.

Can I "half-like" this?

No.

That would imply that you only had half a brain. And, or, your virility was impaired by having only one testicle.

But presuming that you are of sound mind and scrotum, I will try to explain my apparent animus toward farangs. My own people.

I first came here in the 1970's when Chiang Mai was, by broad agreement, a truly beautiful place.

At that time a farang settling here had to live among Thais, to one extent or another, almost by necessity. There weren't many other options unless you had a lot of money.

Sure, there were always exceptions. Farangs who led a life apart. But they had their own organizations and peer support.

Religious, goverment, and corporate people cut off from the culture and frequently acting like a**holes out of ignorance.

This expat lifestyle has now become the norm with western tastes being catered to on every conceivable level.

The city has been transformed to accomodate foreigners.

It's true that Thais, especially the younger ones participate with alacrity. Their own culture being something they only practice and honour occasionly.

Only the more perceptive and intelligent among them have any idea of what they've lost.

R.I.P. Chiang Mai.

You might try the Tourist Office. If the sale is up and coming they should know.

But any request for information out of the ordinary will draw a blank "deer in the headlights" stare from those pretty girls in there.

They're absolutely worthless when it comes to providing information that they're not programmed to supply.

I've heard that it was held at Chang Doi Market near the new Sala Glahng.

As so often happens here, the more you try to get information the more confusion you generate.

If it is on it will probably be at Chang Doi.

I hope so, I used to get a lot of good stuff there.

The teak furniture was especially fine and the prices very low.

I remember long conference tables made from single immense slabs of teak.

I was told that the wood was confiscated from smugglers. My-sahk tong, the best, Numero Uno. And all at bargain prices.

Good things like this are disappearing as more and more farangs call Chiang Mai home for all or part of the year.

The trend now seems to be the creation of suburban comfort- zones in addition to their gated communities, hi-rise condos, and entertainment streets that have transformed the city already.

This new development is just beginning and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

It usually starts with a few resturants opened by vanguard settlers and grows from there.

It could be the start of virtual Bantustans dominated by farangs.

The iron gates and brick and mortar walls of their communities would become more subtle in these new zones but none the less exclusionary.

New territories opening up! All are welcome!

The dregs of Europe. Neo-Barbarians from Down Under who make the stone-age Abos look civilized. Low-rent Americans, semi-literate trailer trash. Don't be shy. Step right up. There's room for everybody in this Brave New World built on the ruins of the thousand year old Lanna Thai Culture.

Anyway, meet you at the Sin-kah Kook. When did we say it was on, chaht nah?

I thought for most of us living in Thailand its easy to get our heads around oddities...i mean, just about everything "odd" happens here, does it not..lol

Anyway, i found the movie intriguing. It really compartmentalised sex from emotions, in a clinical non-erotic or sensual way. (I realise people can of course have emotionless sex, but this was presented in a very different kind of way).

Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd weren't in it were they?

This sounds almost like a clinical examination of Australian sexuality.

The possible inclusion of Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd would indeed make it a "must see" for cinema buffs everywhere.

Your first opportunity to display your Line Dancing technique may be at the local Immigration Office.

It's a gig with guaranteed repeat performances.

Boogie on Bro.

Homeboy, your proposal to nominate me as head of this new Chiang Mai Bedlam is humbling indeed.

Never one to shirk my public duty, I can do nothing but accept.

But with profound humility.

My long experience with Chiang Mai farangs both resident and transient will no doubt be of use in the custody and treatment of those intrusted to my care.

No effort will be spared to reform the behaviour of these lambs who have strayed from the flock.

Like Alex in A Clockwork Orange they will be subjected to a strict regimen of remedial education.

The phrase "I am only a guest in Thailand" will be inculcated in various ways until it is an integral part of their psyche. With them repeating it, often spontaneously, several times a day.

After that primary lesson, behaviour modification can begin in earnest.

The Spanish Inquisition, the Elizabethan torturers of Catholics, Stalin, today's Waterboarders, none will seem harsh compared to the tender loving care that I will lavish on my charges.

Their return to normalcy and Chiang Mai society with the sobriquet "Farang Poo-Dee" will be the object and shining light at the end of this long tunnel.

have to agree with u about non sensible posts,but go on tell us who is ralph fitch?????

Ralph Fitch was the first documented European to reach Chiang Mai.

He is thought to have been preceded by European mercenaries, mostly Portugese, who served with the armies of Ava, Pegu, and Ayudhya. All of which fought against Chiang Mai at one time or another in the early or mid-16th century.

Fitch's visit was in 1587.

Lanna Thai history is a fascinating subject which can be pursued in a number of good books. Notably Dr. Andrew Forbes' recent series, Ancient Chiang Mai.

He is a TV member as well and was a great help to me in a recent topic of my own.

I hope that tells you what you want to know. Maybe it's more than you want to know.

Anyway, choke dee.

Very nice little historical cameo you've posted here.

I couldn't have said it better myself. As a matter of fact I think I did in a previous post.

Next time try rephrasing instead of using scissors and paste.

The Living Dead that now make up the majority of Chiang Mai's foreign community were preceded here by other groups of farang who came after Ralph Fitch.

I'm sure we would all just Loooove to hear about them.

But don't be verbose. I've got other things to do today.

Gringo, don't get your cojones in an uproar.

To relieve your pique I'll acknowledge you as the Numero Uno in Chiang Mai studies.

OK, feel better now?

Living Dead? Our Bro's and Ho's, Mates and Dudes and all the other flotsam and jetsam that has washed up on these shores?

Many of the historical figures must have been a rum lot as well.

After Ralph Fitch came the 17th century adventurers and Jesuits at King Narai's court.

Constantine Phaulkon, Narai's favorite being the most prominent.

Narai died, Phaulkon was snuffed, and most of the other Europeans were massacred.

Very few foreigners in Siam until the early 19th century.

English, French, and Americans being the principal players then.

King Chulalongkorn's modernization brought in many professionals. Also Italians in the arts.

In Chiang Mai missionaries, mostly Americans, began to settle here.

Some were troublemakers but others were extraordinarily gifted people. Notably the doctors and teachers among them. But unfortunately most were characterized by a pig-headed bigotry in religious matters that persists to this day among their modern counterparts.

Also at that period teak-wallahs, mostly British, founded the Gymkhana club [1897] and introduced western sports to Chiang Mai.

WWII. Japanese occupation. Regardless of what it was like in other parts of Thailand, here it was probably not too bad. My mother in law, as a small child, remembered the soldiers giving out candies. Just the same, Chiang Mai people were no doubt glad to see them go.

Post WWII it was the good ol' USA all the way until after the ignoninious defeat in Vietnam.

After that it was a mix of nationalities looking for sun, sex, and whatever else they thought they could find here.

So that's about it Gringo. In a nutshell.

I Loooove Chiang Mai Already...After Just... can't seem to recall. O well, you remember the old saying "If you can remember Chiang Mai in the 70's you weren't there".

And I was there Baby.

That's a pretty good summing-up. At least as it relates to farangs.

But you skimmed the last period. Since the GI's left.

That's a time we both remember so I would have thought you would have given it more attention.

What characterizes it? Certainly the lower quality of the farangs who took up residence here, short or long-term.

Mass third-world immigration to, and deteriorating social and economic conditions in the US and Europe have created refugees who aren't so much seeking something as fleeing a homeland that is unrecognizable from what they knew when they were growing-up.

Middle-class mediocrities for the most part who try to recreate a lifestyle they can no longer afford in their own countries.

The number of sex-tourists exploded during that period too.

Sure, pussy was always a big attraction here. But in the 80's and 90's the sex trade became probably the biggest in the world. If not in dollar terms then certainly in sheer numbers of girls and easy access to venues.

Mix in the Russian Mafia. African swindlers, and East European hookers and you have a witches brew of humanity that stinks to high heaven.

So far the worst of the worst have stayed in Bangkok and Pattaya.

But who knows what will go down next.

It's been a lot of things here over the years but boring has never been one of them.

Maybe that's why we all Loooove it so much.

have to agree with u about non sensible posts,but go on tell us who is ralph fitch?????

Ralph Fitch was the first documented European to reach Chiang Mai.

He is thought to have been preceded by European mercenaries, mostly Portugese, who served with the armies of Ava, Pegu, and Ayudhya. All of which fought against Chiang Mai at one time or another in the early or mid-16th century.

Fitch's visit was in 1587.

Lanna Thai history is a fascinating subject which can be pursued in a number of good books. Notably Dr. Andrew Forbes' recent series, Ancient Chiang Mai.

He is a TV member as well and was a great help to me in a recent topic of my own.

I hope that tells you what you want to know. Maybe it's more than you want to know.

Anyway, choke dee.

Very nice little historical cameo you've posted here.

I couldn't have said it better myself. As a matter of fact I think I did in a previous post.

Next time try rephrasing instead of using scissors and paste.

The Living Dead that now make up the majority of Chiang Mai's foreign community were preceded here by other groups of farang who came after Ralph Fitch.

I'm sure we would all just Loooove to hear about them.

But don't be verbose. I've got other things to do today.

You will be one more in a virtual tsunami of farangs who have flooded the cities and even spread to some rural areas of Thailand.

How you will be received depends to a large extent on how you act.

If you consider yourself a guest and respect traditional manners you will be made welcome by most Thais.

If you come weighed down with a lot of social, political, or religious baggage you will sooner or later find yourself at home in the expat community.

There's a place for everybody in the Land of Smiles.

"There's a place for everybody in the Land of Smiles".

True enough Homeboy. But you forgot to tell this dude that some of those places only measure about 4X8 feet.

"The ones who survived were the ones who got out of the way".

Sounds like a textbook example of Darwin's theory of the survival of the fittest.

Evolution in action. A species advancing.

The next thing you know they will be posting on Thai Visa.

Maybe they already are.

There have been some strange topics lately.

Strange topics are the least of my worries.

My real concern is that they will be promoted into the ranks of the MODs.

Dead dogs were a common sight on country highways in Northern Thailand during the 1970's.

As time went by fewer and fewer were to be seen. Until the mid and late 80's when their numbers were reduced to about what you see today.

I've often wondered if the reason was because fewer were being killed or because roadkill was being eaten by the locals or perhaps served up as mystery-meat added to the noodles and other dishes sold to the ever increasing number of farangs coming here.

"Male Chauvinist Pig" was a phrase coined back in the 60's.

"If the shoe fits wear it" is another one that goes back even farther.

That said, I was amused to read your little thesis, ajahn.

Overgrown children predominate expat communities everywhere and they don't all come from Down Under by any means.

There are attitudes and types of groupthink , Siberias, Canadas, and Australias of the mind that stunt the growth of even the most intelligent and talented of people who allow themselves to fall under their influence.

These clueless farangs have come down on Chiang Mai like a plague of locusts.

No, it doesn't fit.

My foot wouldn't come close to filling M. Chauvin's oversized jackboot.

But to sink metaphor...

I've loved women all my life.

I've loved them to the point of folly in many cases.

Even now, in spite of this "villainous old age that makes me so unfit for love", as Casanova lamented when he was about my age. I love them still.

But to stay on topic; Why don't you celebrate your next birthday among Australians at the Down Under?

Who knows, familiarity might breed something unexpected.

A philo- Australian AnnaBanana perhaps.

Well, we DID have a good time tonight and it was still happening when I left at 11:30. Nice to see Winnie the Kwai there enjoying the fun. Aussies and Brits DO like to rib each other, and any bystander could be confused into thinking they actually meant what they said. One fellow brought his young son of about 7 or 8 years old and the kid seemed to enjoy himself. I sure envy the energy of youth. They go full bore until they finally drop from exhaustion. Then they sleep like angels.

If you think the Poms and Aussies like to get stuck into each other you should see what happens when the Aussies get together with Kiwis - a lot of discussion about Kiwis sexual preference for sheep.

Also, I don't know why a Yank should be getting stuck into Australians. We have fought beside them (often foolishly) in just about every war since independence. Most R&R boys during Vietnam, the American War as the Vietnanese call it, thought Australians OK as they turned up in their thousands and were made welcome.

"often foolishly", shouldn't that read "always foolishly"? Think about it.

With the possible exception of the American War of Independence that is.

Were Australians really involved? I didn't even think Australia existed as an entity in the 1770's. I thought it was called New Holland or something like that, with a few scattered outposts of debauched Dutchmen brewing their own schnapps and getting it on with Abos of both sexes. Anyway, maybe you know something I don't.

You could have used some homegrown freedom fighters of your own by the 1870's and 80's when Australia developed into a country.

A revolutionary generation is simply one that possesses brains and balls.

The brains to understand that they are being exploited, and the balls to do something about it.

But you, like your colonail cousins all over the world allowed yourselves to be emasculated.

And following generations compensate for it by mouthing-off in pubs by night and by trolling internet forums by day.

Thanks for the replies.

The informative, the uninformative, and the funny. All are appreciated.

The answer to my question, "What is being done?" seems to be; not a helluva lot.

It's hard to believe that a city of this size and with so much obvious wealth can't protect it's flood-prone areas.

Certainly there are things that could be tried, some of them seem to be obvious, but nothing gets done.

And like Trink's Niteowl, nobody gives a hoot.

Does anyone know if anything is being planned or being done to prepare for possible floods this year?

I live near Nong Hoi by the Sanahm Golf and Wat Muang Guy.

Over the years there have been a number of serious floods as a result of the Ping River overflowing it's banks.

Nothing except some ineffectual sandbagging along the riverbank has been done in the past.

I would think a concrete floodwall about two meters high from around where Rim Ping Supermarket is to below the heavily populated area of Nong Hoi would be a great help and possibily solve the problem entirely in that locality.

At present, drains are being excavated on Ratutit, Soi 6 and one on our little Soi near the end of the Sanahm Golf.

How effective they will be remains to be seen.

If the whole area is innundated as it has often been in the past, these new drains won't do any good at all.

Also, would dredging the river be of any help?

Thanks for any input on this. I'm sure it's a subject of interest to many people. Especially those who live in parts of the city affected by flooding.

Is Dwarf Tossing legal in Thailand?

To answer your question, OldGringo, no.

Back in the mid 1990's some drunken Australian yobbo was at a late night after closing party at the Huay Kaew waterfall with some of the staff from John's Place/Cosy Corner. He decided to throw one of the doormen off the waterfall, the little fellah was thrown to his death. The yobbo was consequently locked up and eventually his family raised funds sufficient to expedite his release and soothe things over with the deceased's family. Sad but true.

Thanks for the input Blinky Bill.

I never heard the story. Otherwise I wouldn't have made a facetious reference to what I understood to be a bar game originating Down Under.

Perennial adolescence has it's comic side which lends itself easily to satire. Except when carried too far, as in the case you mention.

Australia has many unique things that can be regarded as Darwinian conundrums of evolution in isolation.

Some of them should never leave their homeland.

Dwarf Tossing and the people who get off on it are good examples.

But hey, I was born in the USA and that's a place of omnipresent weirdness that makes the Land of Oz look normal.

Happy Australia Day mates.

Australia Day!

A new holiday for us!

What cultural events are being planned?

Is Dwarf Tossing legal in Thailand?

The notice on the building was the polite request.

What will follow is anybody's guess.

As I predicted on an earlier thread it will be peasants with pitchforks and torches.

Goddamn peasants, why can't they be sophisticated like us?

Good question.

Next time they go on a rampage why don't you ask them?

And if you're from Europe you may not have long to wait.

The notice on the building was the polite request.

What will follow is anybody's guess.

As I predicted on an earlier thread it will be peasants with pitchforks and torches.

What's your success rate on predictions Gringo?

Higher than you might think.

The locals don't call me "Ahjahn" and "Maw Doo" for nothing.

Excuse me, there's a queue forming at my door as I speak.

The notice on the building was the polite request.

What will follow is anybody's guess.

As I predicted on an earlier thread it will be peasants with pitchforks and torches.