YellowFeverCAD

Judging by the length of his post - a multi business owner with way too much time on his hands while responding to something that wasn't even said.

I'm sorry if you're a poor typist... practice you'll get better.

The point of my post is directly related to one of the core issues in OP, if you are not able to see that, then I guess you need to take some reading lessons along with your typing lessons.

Another other tidbits of worthwhile insight to share with the group?

First I am not sure how to only quote part of what was said above so I will try to underline what I want to quote and Secondly I do not know much but the poster said he is a business owner and if they would actually hire less staff and pay more then the company would saved money and the workers would probably care more about working because they are getting paid more so

Since he has several business why does he not start this process in his business and prove how much money each company could save and show other business owners that it can be done.

We already have done this in one of our businesses and it DOES indeed save us money. You should no assume things.I did comment it was a catch 22 as it won't work in all industries as Thai are not very good at being in their own they much prefer to do everything in a group

Do you actually live here? Most of this stuff is pretty well accepted

??? your point being besides appearing to try to find a cloud in a silver lining

I am always surprised when people talk about how hard the Thai's work compared to anyone else. Do these people own businesses in Thailand? I own a couple of places in the BKK area and I can say without a doubt the average Thai worker is the laziest I have ever employed in any country I have employed people. They spend way too much business time on their personal phone calls, need to eat every 45 minutes and are incapable it seems of going to the washroom or do virtually anything without doing it in a committee. Sorry if that ruffles anyone's feathers but it is my direct personal experience..

Plus as the person said that you replied to with the above quote, Having a low employment rate is really moot when you consider part of the reason Thai's are so under paid is that they are over employed..

Perfect example, a few nights ago my wife son and I were shopping at Tops, on the way out the door there is a Dunkin Donuts there and my son likes that dam_n little donut holes or whatever they are called here. There were THREE staff members working in this little tiny kiosk. Yet the kiosk was self serve. So we picked up a tray, put the paper lining on it, picked up the tongs and picked up two of those little donuts for my son and one each for my wife and I. Then we walked it to the cashier.

Girl one took the tray from us and removed the tongs and put them back on the rack. She passed the tray to girl two, who put our donuts in a box, she then slide the box across the counter to girl three who looked in the box and rang up our total of under 100 baht. I tried to hand the note to girl three, but girl one was closer so she grabbed it and passed it to girl two who passed it to girl three, the change of course went in the exact reverse fashion. Of course that was after girl three counted ot the 3 twenty baht notes for change at least five times, just making sure she got it right I am sure.

Then girl three passed my box to girl two, who put it in a bag and she then passed it to girl one who handed it to us...

A couple of observations, it was a long long proces to grab four donuts.....

My wife commented that each of those girls likely made in the 5k to 6500 baht a month range...

Imagine if the company there hired ONE girl who could have easily done the job required at this little kiosk for 15k, the company would save money on salaries, would likely have a more motivated employee for the greater income (relative to Thai wages) and the poor customer would not have to sit through all that nonsense to get a simple order.

The downside of course is that we now have two unemployed spaceholders....

There in lies one of the biggest issues in Thailand... you see it in every store anywhere I've ever been, totally over staffed beyond belief with a staff that is so poorly paid they don't really give a crap about doing any work...

But the business owners (like I do) feel the need to hire so much extra staff as the Thai employees as a general rule simply don't care about their jobs that much as they pay so little....

Hmmmmm seems like some catch 22 stuff going on there...

Would love to see how to solve that one.. but like so many other things in Thailand that's the way they do it, I'm a farang I don't understand Thai way... to that all I can say is Thank goodness...

Of course they want to open on time. There is going to be a lot of people looking to buy new furniture in a couple of weeks.

Then, Ikea is not the place to shop. <SNIP>

It might be a good idea to check your facts before you post. When I moved to Thailand five years ago, I brought a lot of IKEA furniture such as bookcases, cupboards, a sofa, a dining table and chairs etc. None of this is showing the slightest sign of having been impacted by humidity.

If you don't know what you're talking about, it is a better idea to be quiet and let people think that you are an idiot than to open your mouth and prove the point.

/ Priceless

Whoa whoa there!!

Check your facts?!

Don't you know who you're talking to?

GK don't need no stinkin' facts!

In bold, perhaps the most accurate and funny statement ever made on TVF

In fact, some long-lost relative contacted her out of the blue recently and said they wanted to meet sometime. It's an aunt of hers that she hasn't seen since she was an infant who suddenly, and for seemingly no reason, crawled out from under a rock somewhere and now wants to come see her. My scam radar went off immediately but I've been around Thailand long enough not to say anything. My wife asked me "Well, what do you think I should do?" I said, "You should do what you want to do. If you want to meet her then meet her. If not, tell her you can't." My wife's response was, "I know what you're thinking and I'm thinking the same thing too. Why now? Where was she when I was growing up? How do I know she won't try to kidnap me or kill me or something? Maybe she wants to meet me because I have a farang husband and she can ask for money. Thai people do stuff like that." You can hear it in her voice that it pains her to admit that about her fellow Thais but at the same time she knows she would be an idiot not to be concerned.

Goodness that sounds like a number of different encounters we had with long lost family members after the Farang joined.. and much as you say my wife is now very much in the same frame of mind of not trusting first and asking questions later.. one of the bigger reasons we are leaving for good is our kids no chance in hell I would educate them here, well ok pretty hard to educate anybody here but you know what I mean.. my wife no firmly says she hopes our boys NEVER go back to Thailand and she has already said she could care less if they keep up their Thai language skills.. so she has pretty much washed her hands of most Thais

What a load of nonsense... just shows how the media can be bought and paid for.. This disaster we are going through in Thailand, was and is a man-made disaster , completely brought about by incompetent ministers in charge of all the involved agencies.. and a very naive Prime Minister.. These same people are now trying to turn the public anger away from themselves and blame everyone else.. Amazing Thailand. If Yinluck had any balls, she would resign and hang up her Burberry Boots forthwith..!

When I hear you,you're not happy with the Thai government.What are you doing then overhere.Pack your stuf and leave.

Stay in your perfect country.Greece,maybe?

When you cannot stand different opinions, could you please stay out of the Thai Visa Forum? If you don't like it then leave is such a lame comment......

Agree totally. Seems like many others (including the following) can't accept anyone having an opinion except for them. Agree with them or leave the country. B.S. The fact Thais do not accept their responsibility for anything. It's always somebody or something else at fault.

People who have to stoop to the old stand by if you don't like it leave are just proving they have indeed become truly at one with the "thai way" so sad for them.

Normally if people would forcibly try to do major damage to a major city like Bangkok they'd be branded terrorists....

The Reds who damaged Bkk in Spring '09 and Spring '10 were terrorists in every sense of the word (remember commandeering LP gas truck? .....and raiding hospital?). Yet Thais like them, and voted their leaders in to political power positions months later. The message: It's ok to be a Thai terrorist, particularly if it relates to damaging Bkk.

Terrorists?

not hardly.

Well argued!

trust me he did the best he could, there is no defense for those actions that any sane human being would accept. So in keeping with his usual RED or DEAD he had to throw something out there to earn his paycheque.

<snipped to save space only>

And it is having a major impact on society. My wife loves her Thainess. She wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. But, I've noticed more and more her questioning things that she used to blindly accept. She's more critical of Thai people than she used to be. She is less prone to making up silly excuses to explain away incongruencies between what is preached as Thai culture and what is practiced as Thai culture (i.e. cops take bribes and shake down people because they don't get paid enough). She constantly questions me about stuff she's hearing and she wants to get a farang perspective.

This is what is changing in Thailand. It's not that Thais are any more or less caring or cruel than before. It's that they can no longer avoid the negative aspects of their own culture. They're being forced to confront the ugliness that often happens in Thai society.

People like the author of the article don't like this. They want to return to a time when you could just not read the newspaper or the newspaper was too full of gossip about celebrities to concern itself with actual news.

I like the gist of your post and agree with it almost entirely. I just wanted to jump in and say that my wife went through what you talk about with your wife but a few years ago. My wife now very much dislikes many things she sees everyday in Thailand and she will not take any of it sitting down anymore. We are relocating to the West as she has spent time there and much prefers it to Thailand now. I do remember many years ago my wife trotting out the old "Its the Thai way you can not understand" she hasn't said that in years and knows that is just a way of not accepting the selfishness and short comings of too many of her fellow Thais. When we first went to the West she talked about how much she missed home, with each trip she said it less and less. When we made plans to leave Thailand she talked about coming back every year no matter what. Now the time has come to leave and she says she will come back when she makes it back, no plans and no concern about when that might be. I asked once what happened to so alter her thinking and she could not point to anyone thing, but one of the things she said in the chat was interesting, she said in the West it appears they have TOO many rules.. but she now accepts that for a society to function in a worthwhile manner Too many rules is better than NO rules.

Thailand is the wild west, every man, woman and child for themselves...

A win for the poor.

This should be the way to fight double standard.

Why should bangkok be kept dry? Do bangkok people pay special tax for this privilege?

Oh now I get it thanks.. so on the "OTHER" side of that gate there are NO poor people... well good to know.. thanks

Poor people or not, all I am asking is to allow people outside Bangkok to have a better chance of survival.

Of the 400+ death, less than 10 is in Bangkok.

After all, we are all human.

Then why did your first post start with "a win for the poor" seems it does matter to you... learn all the facts before you start posting.

A win for the poor.

This should be the way to fight double standard.

Why should bangkok be kept dry? Do bangkok people pay special tax for this privilege?

Oh now I get it thanks.. so on the "OTHER" side of that gate there are NO poor people... well good to know.. thanks

Many Thais r not truly nice people anymore and u can all argue the fact but after nearly 20 yrs here they have changed beyond belief maybe learning the western ways then going overboard picking the bad habits but I live with it and accept it but it is truly my opinion honest and true..

Here here! It has always since I have been here about "how much Thai's can get out of the falang Bank"smack's of rip off and I see ir more and more in the villages of Thailand. Most are too lazy to go and find a real job. Easier scamming the falang than go and work.

Can see the direction this thread is going in. But alas one can only nod in agreement with many of the statements. However maybe the concept of lazy is a western one. I think being 'lazy' is all part of the wider culture / excuse (you choose) of 'sanook'

Not saying you are implying it. But I am also sick and tired of hearing how every last problem that ever comes up in Thailand can somehow be directly related to being the fault of a farang somewhere. Really really sick of that... I dare say I would love to see how Thailand operated without ANY farang influence at all.. I am not saying it would be a better or worse place but it would be amazingly different just think for a moment how many things would NOT be here if you took every single NON Thai product or service away...

I'm not saying anything about what you guys have experienced with your flooded homes.

But Bangkok is not being protected "to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit".

And if Lotus in On Nut is fully stocked, it is probably the only supermarket that is fully stocked within 100km of Bangkok.

Make that 700 kilometers----even no burgers in 7-11 Udon.

Actually that is not true, the Villa Market in the Pure Place Mall on Ramkhamhaeng is actually stocked very well. We even picked up some water there today but I will admit it was the Evian etc, that the Thai's generally will not buy, but it was there. The only things I saw that looked low but not out where noodles and rice.. the rest of the store looked like any other day we shop there.

My wife just got home and tells me that Fashion Island was closed early today as the parking structure was flooding. It appears to all be flowing in from the drains. More than that we don't know.

The canal behind Fashion Island (Ramintra 99) has risen considerably over the last day or so and is spreading throughout all the sois and into the basement of Fashion (fallout from Klong Samwa foolishness?). No flooding on Ramintra road (yet).

Fashion Island is now probably closed indefinitely for business I guess or at least until the water recedes).

Thanks for filling in the blanks... that is creeping closer and close to our Soi. Thanks goodness we fly out of this madness tomorrow.

I guess it is not any skin off the government back when giveworkers holiday. The businesses have to absorb the cost of paying the employee extra.

What makes you think they where paid.

We paid all our employees... not their fault the businesses got flooded. They were there and ready to work.

You don't seem to understand that 2.9% growth mean that the economy is growing. Not sure why you don't understand something so simple.

I think you are missing the point, the forecast for the year WAS 4.1% it has now been slashed to 2.9% as the year is almost over they are assuming that the 4Q that looked to be strong is not going to be now. You need to look at the first 3Q and see if there is any actual growth taking place in the fourth quarter.

It could in fact be something along the lines of the forecast for the year was 4.1% but at the time they made it the economy had already grown by for example 3.5% so they figured .6% growth for the last quarter, but now they have lowered it to 2.9% it might mean they expect to have the economy contract .6%

If the growth in question has already happened that would mean that the economy in fact is NOT growing now but rather shrinking. They numbers you are using mean nothing without context.

My wife just got home and tells me that Fashion Island was closed early today as the parking structure was flooding. It appears to all be flowing in from the drains. More than that we don't know.

Sir, I thank you, for one of the most sensible and reasonable posts that I have read on TVF.

Thanks, I have my moments... yours as well.

I wish you all the very best in the next stage of your life's journey,

Thanks.. enjoy your time in the Kingdom, I look forward to coming back in the future as a tourist and enjoying my time spent here again.

I do not disagree with the gist of your post. You have lived here, it does not offer you whatever it is that you are looking for in life and you have decided to move on. Good for you!!

As to whether anyone's goals are less valid than mine, that's not the point at all. Most of us here have worked hard all our lives and are looking forward to a nice existence before departing. I believe that to be the ultimate goal for most of us. The disillusioned souls are those that don't actually know what they want and not finding it here in Thailand, resort to just criticism and negativity. In my life, I have come across a lot of bitter people, but none more so that many of the very vocal and bullying posters.

Your reply that I do not speak Thai makes no sense to me whatsoever. In fact, if by not speaking Thai I get to see the silver lining in every cloud (thank you Tlansford), then good for me I say.

Anyone who tries to tell me that they see a different world from me is not a liar - just one who has not accepted the realities of this life and learnt to live with it. Life is short for some of us - why spend our remaining days drowning in self pity and bitterness when there is so much to enjoy about living in Thailand? It's far from perfect - but as close to Nirvana as I have encountered in my long and weary life. I am so blessed to have been bestowed the opportunity to live out my remaining days in the Land of Smiles.

I guess I can't accept the point of view that you have about living in denial being a good thing. I only mean that in reference to speaking Thai. If you do not speak the language (which clearly you don't) and you are happy with not knowing what goes on around you than I say good for you if that is a way you can live and you've found Thailand to be a Nirvana I say all the more power to you. If you knew what was said around you and the way those smiles you so love betray the nature of the people behind them you would likely not love it here so much, but if that does not matter to you, again glad you found what you are looking for.

I am not sure what you see as being so much to enjoy about Thailand it's one of the most boring places on earth if you do not partake of the nightlife and I don't. You can only ride an Elephant or visit a Temple so many times. It just goes to show you how funny life is, in all the places I've lived in my life I have found Thailand to offer the least and be the least interesting... much the opposite of you, so good for us both in finding what is and isn't right for us.. and I don't begrudge your happiness with Thailand at all...

Where as you get tired of the people not happy here that resort to being bitter etc..etc.. I get just as tired as those that are happy here assuming something must be wrong with those us that have found it's just not our cup of tea.. I should point out that at one point many years ago I talked like you and believed what I was saying.. I often tell my wife the worst thing I ever did was learn to speak Thai... *shrug* live goes on and I'm very excited for the next chapter to start.

Good luck to you.. and I imagine we should get back on Topic...

So?

Clearly you are one of those disillusioned souls.

Funny how if one doesn't agree with YOUR point of view they are disillusioned.. sorry to break it to you but I am anything but. I guess I just need more than Thailand has to offer in every way. Been here quite a while and moving on soon not soon enough.. but you are totally entitled to YOUR view of living here, but again just because someone does not agree with you or have the same life goals does not make their goals any less valid than yours.

If you did speak Thai fluently you would see a whole different world than you do now... fact... anyone that tries to tell you otherwise is a liar plain and simple. Knowing the language is a double edged sword for sure.

Perhaps 'villagers' is an appropriate description in that in conjures up images of an irate crowd trying to storm the castle gates armed with pitchforks and torches. I suspect the blame game will be truly a spectacle after the floods have subsided.

It is ironic that the all the "poor" people last year ready to die to have the evil BKK elites out of power and their fellow "poor red shirts" in power are now seeing what reality looks like.

Clearly not as they expected things to go.

I am definitely going to be flamed for what I about to post, maybe even have my post deleted or worse, heaven forbid, be banned from this forum.

However, I find all these discussions criticisms, especially of the current government, justified or not, very sad and pathetic. Some posters will undoubtedly say "Newbie, what do your know? Bugger off". Some will say I have not lived through the Thaksin years and therefore do not know what harm this man has done to this country. Yet others will say they have family here and therefore want what is best for the country. All I know is that I've lived in both the East and the West, the former for the last 20 or so years. In all my travels, Thailand has been my favourite.

Yes, it's a banana republic. Yes, it's corrupt to the core. Yes, the current government is incompetent (one eyed Jack is king among the blind). Yes, there is nepotism, cronyism, corruption, prostitution and any other -ion that you can think of.

However, nowhere in this world have I seen and found and pleased to say, that I live among some of the happiest people in the world. I'm grateful for every day that I'm here, grateful because the Thai people have taught and shown me to be thankful for what I have.

Sure, a lot of things that happen here on a daily basis can be improved upon, and would be rightly criticised in a Western country. But isn't that the reason that we live here, and call this country our home?

I find that the more I'm upset by things, the more thing that I find to criticise, the less happy that I am. I accept things as they are here, for better or for worse, good or bad. By being contented with things the way there are, both good and bad, my life is..... just better.

p/s: as I write this, I'm waging WW3 with 230,000 mossies, half of me is covered with Zambuk and the other half bathed in Zeptolene, but the family's having a family BBQ, my whisky and soda is nicely bathing on the rocks. I can't think of anywhere I would rather be, or anything that I would rather be doing

Clearly you do NOT speak Thai.

Along Ramkamhaeng up to Minburi and out along the 304 anybody? Can I get out of Bangkok this way?

Ramkhamhaeng from Rama 9 up to Soi 94 is bone dry. Not a drop in sight

Regarding this topic, what is clear is that on one hand most people are doing amazing things in a crisis and really showing tremendous generosity, yet on the other hand there are still some people who will latch on to the slightest hint of abuse and vault it from irrelevant or unsubstantiated rumor to the the height of truth and indignation.

Couldn't agree with you more, while there are so many people on the ground and in the trenches helping out in a horrible crisis there are always going to be people like the dimwits in charge of all these donations. They don't appear to have the brains or concern to make sure they are not stuck in a flooded out building but rather out where they could do some good. So sad when people put in charge of something have no clue what they are doing. I mean it's not like the building was suddenly engulfed in water they had plenty of time to move them out to a better location even if for some reason they could not get them out to the people that need them.

This has been a crisis years in the making. But if it makes you feel better to spread rumors and blame the party you hate -- go for it.

Clearly you are drunk, I never spread any rumors. I never blamed anybody for anything I pointed out the facts of this gov'ts poor handling of this crisis. Sorry if YOU are to blinded to accept that.

For the record not that you will care about facts. NOBODY in my family voted for either 1 or 10 in the last elections.