yuyi

To end all speculation that this was an isolated action by a rogue office, I tried to get hold of the document serving as basis of the refusal. I managed to get the header copied, here it is:

ที่ มท ๐๕๑๕/ว ๒๑๙๔๙

มท = Ministry of Interior

กรมที่ดิน

ถนนพระพิพธ กทม. ๑๐๒๐๐

ิ

Department of Lands

๑๙ สิงหาคม ๒๕๕๑

19 August 2551

๑๙ สิงหาคม ๒๕๕๑

เรื่อง ระเบียบกรมที่ดิน ว่าด้วยการจดทะเบียนสิทธิและนิติกรรมเกี่ยวกับการเช่าที่ดินและ

อสังหาริมทรัพย์อยงางอื่น ตามประมวลกฎหมายแพงงและพาณิชย์ พ.ศ. ๒๕๕๑

From the Land department, about leasing land (etc)

เรียน ผู้ว่าราชการจังหวัดทุกจังหวัด

-> To all provinces

สิ่งที่ส่งมาด้วย ระเบียบกรมที่ดิน ว่าด้วยการจดทะเบียนสิทธิและนิติกรรมเกี่ยวกับการเช่าที่ดิน

และอสังหาริมทรัพย์อย่างอื่นตามประมวลกฎหมายแพ่งและพาณิชย์ พ.ศ. ๒๕๕๑

Sorry, time did not allow me to get more now, but I will try today to get the pages copied which contain the specifics. It's more than 100 pages, so I will not ask or order a translation of the whole thing.

However that above might already enable someone having access to these kind of things to look it up.

It sounds like the rogue action of a specific land office or a restriction based upon some specific aspects of the lease agreement other than the fact that a farang was involved.

May be it sounds like that, but if these guys justify the refusal by quoting their rules and by handing over a 100plus pages document then it certainly does not look like a rogue action to me.

It was said very clearly that this concerns farangs as leaseholders, only farangs.

Since you were witness to this, which land office was involved? Was the lease for an individual farang or for a foreign company?

Individual farang.

Anything unusual about the situation or was it simply a farang trying to lease a plot of land for 30 years?

Nothing unusual. The same development has already successfully registered 30 year leases before.

We have already heard of stories where some land offices refuse to register a usufruct on a land title.

As said, this was more 'business as usual' which suddenly does not work anymore. There's a good relation between Thai lawyers and land office, they work together for a long time. That's probably why they gave the lawyers a copy of that document without hesitation.

If nobody has heard about this new rule, may be someone can report success registering a 30 year lease very recently?

And yes, even if there was no usufruct requested in this case, they said that usufructs for foreigners are also concerned, and will not be accepted anymore.

I would like to know if anyone else can confirm the OP's experience.

I'm not doubting him, but this is potentially so serious that it should be verified from a range of sources.

Well, I fully agree with this "potentially so serious", which is why I don't want to believe it. However I witnessed it happening, and I saw the Thai lawyer receiving this 100plus pages document, in Thai, from the hands of the land office officer. I have no reason to doubt the words of the Thais involved there, it was in their own interest to get the 30 year lease registered. Still, I don't wanna post this as facts, but simply as a question.

There seems to have been no announcement of this whatsoever, but only by actually trying to register a 30 year lease this came up. And both the owners and the law firm and even the leaseholder are in the real estate business, so they should have heard about it, if that would have been announced somehow, somewhere. But no.

... Take it, they will not allow multiples of 5 years. ...

The said clearly that it can be extended again for another 5 years later (well, for now at least)

... Maybe the Sunbelt legal team can comment ?

Well, that's what I'm hoping for. Sunbelt or Indo Siam might have access to some facts, at least I hope they do.

Oops, a friend tried to register a 30 year lease, and it was refused. Reason given was a new order (dated August 15) telling the land offices to not register land leases > 5 years for foreigners. Plus no more usufructs for foreigners.

There was a discussion if this is indeed a new law, however it seems to be not a real law, but just a rule given by the land department. There is a 100plus page document in Thai there with all details.

Since in my eyes this is a shocker, however I see it happening, I wonder if any of the gurus here can shed some light on this.

(and please refrain from stupid "oh so terrible" "better pack your stuff and run" comments)

...

Upon moving to Thailand, I, The Foreigner had to show that I could support a Thai citizen(actually 2 counting our son).

I have seen Immigration officers at least 5 times a year,and every year had to show that I could continue to support Thai citizens.

I think this is exactly opposite to the situation here.Of course I might be wrong.

This has changed very recently. Now it is fine if you (alone) or your wife (alone), or you both combined show a monthly income of 40000 baht.

There are good things in Thailand........the visa/business rules, underpinned by a growing xenophobic attitude, are not part of them. Some people chose to speak out when confronted with injustice........others, the majority I am afraid, bury their heads in the sand.

Very true.

This is our planet. We do not need a local passport to point our finger at stupidity and injustice.

I had the sierra wireless aircard 550 running on SuSE Linux with great success for 2 years, but that was 2 - 3 years ago. All sierra wireless aircards, the 5xx (CDMA) and 7xx (GPRS) required some manipulation of the PCMCIA configuration files. SuSE changed the PCMCIA management in the meantime, so I do not know if that would be still necessary.

However it was necessary to switch of the "network" functionality of these cards, which was done by installing a small driver, and I assume it still is.

And yes, that was with Hutch / CAT

I had the sierra wireless aircard 550 running on SuSE Linux with great success for 2 years, but that was 2 - 3 years ago. All sierra wireless aircards, the 5xx (CDMA) and 7xx (GPRS) required some manipulation of the PCMCIA configuration files. SuSE changed the PCMCIA management in the meantime, so I do not know if that would be still necessary.

However it was necessary to switch of the "network" functionality of these cards, which was done by installing a small driver, and I assume it still is.

Last November, 3 youth defectors were caught by Laos authorities at the Chinese border, while in attempt to reach Thailand from China via the Mekong River.

Laos authorities sentenced the youths to 3 months imprisonment. Five months on, the youths were finally released on 24th and handed over to the South Korean Embassy.

... Minister Song Min Soon of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said, ...

In relation to the 3 youth defectors currently detained in Laos, the minister said, “I am not in a position to confirm anything” and added, “The situation is not something to be worried about.”

-- dailynk.com 2007-04-25

Oh yeah, sure, nothing to be worried about, not at all

Well, I use Bumrungrad since many years, also my family, and some of my friends, and I am very happy with it most (90%) of the time. I guess it depends on the doctors you have there. I tried also others such as the Bangkok Pattaya, and numerous Thai hospitals.

From the Thai hospitals, well, even if the doctors did know about some simple and standard diagnostic possibilities, standard in the western world, they would not have the simple equipment for it, and you get a "double 80%" treatment. This is what the chief doctor of a Thai Province center clinic told me "In 80 % of the cases looking like that the diagnosis is xyz and in 80% of xyz the medication given has a positive effect, sorry we do not have the equipment to make a better diagnosis, so take this medication now"

For the Bangkok Pattaya hospitals, well, there might be a good doctor there or two, but many who just recommend you unnecessary operations and treatments, a real rip-off! Never again I will go there! And too many horror stories I hear, first hand experiences from friends, not just rumors.

For Bumrungrad, I would say there you have at least a 80% chance to meet a good doctor. There are 2 doctors my family sees regularly, and they are both world class, and reasonable costs. I also noticed that often we have to queue for an hour or more because the queue for them is so long, while the queue for others is much shorter. Diagnosis, treatment, and the explanation of both, simply perfect. I have seen 2 cesarians there, and all what is happening before and after, and there is not much room for improvement, if any at all. No way I would voluntarily go elsewhere if my family would need it again!

I have seen in Bumrungrad their specialist for Infectious Diseases recommending me against taking antibiotics when I was in doubt, and felt really sick. He gave up his commission, just to tell me what he thinks is the best to do - let nature heal it itself!

I have also met a stupid doctor there, telling my family nonsense about a viral infection in the ear, which would need treatment with antibiotics, and being quite annoyed when we did refuse "(kill a virus with antibiotics, yeah!)", however his colleague next door whom we consulted afterwards did compensate by doing an excellent job, and confirming that it was nonsense what the other doctor said.

So if in doubt, I go to bumrungrad, but as everywhere I watch what they do, ask for an explanation, and verify what they say. And in the meantime some of their doctors have gained my trust 100% already.

Don't use the dongle available at 7/11 if you can go to Bangrak. There is a special dongle available at the CAT datacenter in Bangrak (behind the post office Bangrak). This is from the ICT, and is just for the volunteers helping to clean the web for Thailand. You have to report 3 pornographic sites per day to the ICT (on a special form), which will then be blocked immediately. In return you are tax exempted, you can surf for free. Foreigners are accepted, but no internet cafes. However, if you miss the target, your dongle gets cancelled. There is a limited number of these special dongles though, you better rush.

Everyone of us can do what this agent did: if we see something suspicious, have a second and third look, ask questions, collect information, and pass it on (with persistence) to the authorities in the home country of the scumbag offering these poor girls.

The one who looks away is as guilty as the one committing these crimes.

... so many experts, yet none of them seem to have noticed that Thailand has no shortage of sunshine. Which is free! And also absorbtion chillers seem to be totally unknown to them. For everyone else: absorbtion chillers are an old technology which produces cold from heat. Meaning the hotter the sun shines, the more cold you get . Perfect for air conditioning.

This is no future technology, these systems are in use all over the world. Available for buildings starting at 150 m2. Ideal for hotels, resorts, offices, villages, factories, and so on. Thailand could easily save 50% of the electricity used for air conditioning. Replace it with sunshine. (Did I already mention that sunshine is free?)

Ok I admit it: there are not many companies in Thailand which can plan and implement such a system. But here is one: http://www.SiamGPI.com ...what do you say? Yes, of course, it is farang managed

I really wonder which NGOs did participate in that forum. Could it be that there have been just the non-governmental lobbying organizations of the nuclear power, coal and oil industry?

I got told that is not working well as you need very high temperatures. But beside that, how about making hot water from the sun, instead electric--simple

The hotter the better, yes, and modern absorbtion chillers work very well with the temperatures reached using solar collectors. (There is no electricity produced, it is using the hot water produced by the solar collectors.)

About making hot water from the sun, for showers etc, yes, works great, fast ROI, and affordable. It is just that air conditioning in Thailand is responsible for a much bigger part of the electricity consumption, that is why solar cooling has more impact on the amount of electricity needed.

Do you know how much is necessary?

My guess is far over 100 degree

There are 2 technologies available.

• One works with about 180 degrees centigrade (356°Fahrenheit), it uses parabolic solar collectors to reach these temperatures. There are many installations worldwide, and this is probably why you had the information about the high temperatures.
  
• The other uses regular flat solar collectors with about 80 degrees centigrade (176°Fahrenheit) . This technology is coming from Europe, and as far as I understood it is quite new, but already having many installations there.
  

Ok I admit it: there are not many companies in Thailand which can plan and implement such a system. But here is one: http://www.SiamGPI.com ...what do you say? Yes, of course, it is farang managed

I really wonder which NGOs did participate in that forum. Could it be that there have been just the non-governmental lobbying organizations of the nuclear power, coal and oil industry?

...

For those who suggest solar or wind. The reason why neither currently works is because both are not economically viable without government subsidies. Coal, hydro and to a lessor degree geothermal and natural gas tend to be at least 1/2 the price of either solar or wind. And incidentally, Thailand has some of the worst wind for wind generation; it isn't strong enough most of the year, and so would require a specific rotor/blade design for low wind speed, with the ability to shut off in monsoon weather. Cobra, incidentally, a Thai OEM company that is the world's largest windsurfer/surfboard manufacturer, are working on such a design within their design consortium.

It would make more sense rurally to use wind, and many villages do for direct functions, rather than going wind to electruicity to machine, they go wind to machine directly, avoiding line losses and lower efficiency numbers of the electricity generation.

FOr solar, another major issue is electricity's inability to store without batteries or similar (which is impossible at a grid level, at least AFAIK). Since the load peaks often occur here at night when everyone goes home and turns on their aircon, it means solar is producing energy at the low load period, when the supply curve (and cost) is high supply and hence low price.

...

Agreed for Photovoltaics (Solar electricity from solar cells) . This is expensive, but still a good alternative for remote areas or islands without connection to the power grid. Building such a connection is quite expensive.

However the production of hot water directly using solar collectors is economically viable without any subsidies.

You can use the hot water for your shower, or, using modern absorption chillers, for solar cooling. Used for cooling it does not involve producing electricity, but nevertheless it saves electricity by replacing the electricity driven air conditioning systems.

Of course, as mentioned by others, insulating your building has a big effect too. As has the choice of glass for your building:

To reduce cooling loads, specify new types of tinted glass and new coatings that reduce the effect of the sun’s heat without sacrificing views.

Spectrally selective glazings and coatings absorb and reflect the infrared portion of sunlight while transmitting visible daylight, thus reducing solar heat gain coefficients and resultant cooling loads.

Solar control coatings can also have low-emittance characteristics.

copied from: technologicalimprovements

Insulating your buildings - walls and windows - is a one time investment which saves electricity for air conditioning for many years. I wonder if just doing that for all buildings, especially all new buildings, wouldn't make additional power plants unnecessary...

... so many experts, yet none of them seem to have noticed that Thailand has no shortage of sunshine. Which is free! And also absorbtion chillers seem to be totally unknown to them. For everyone else: absorbtion chillers are an old technology which produces cold from heat. Meaning the hotter the sun shines, the more cold you get . Perfect for air conditioning.

This is no future technology, these systems are in use all over the world. Available for buildings starting at 150 m2. Ideal for hotels, resorts, offices, villages, factories, and so on. Thailand could easily save 50% of the electricity used for air conditioning. Replace it with sunshine. (Did I already mention that sunshine is free?)

Ok I admit it: there are not many companies in Thailand which can plan and implement such a system. But here is one: http://www.SiamGPI.com ...what do you say? Yes, of course, it is farang managed

I really wonder which NGOs did participate in that forum. Could it be that there have been just the non-governmental lobbying organizations of the nuclear power, coal and oil industry?

I got told that is not working well as you need very high temperatures. But beside that, how about making hot water from the sun, instead electric--simple

The hotter the better, yes, and modern absorbtion chillers work very well with the temperatures reached using solar collectors. (There is no electricity produced, it is using the hot water produced by the solar collectors.)

About making hot water from the sun, for showers etc, yes, works great, fast ROI, and affordable. It is just that air conditioning in Thailand is responsible for a much bigger part of the electricity consumption, that is why solar cooling has more impact on the amount of electricity needed.

Has the wind stopped blowing near the sea already?

Why no mention of windpower generation?

Have you seen how many of those windmill thingies are needed just to power a bleedin' hair dryer?

What an eyesore. I'd rather wake up to a vista of some nuclear facility, tbh.

Why waiting? I hear land is cheap around Chernobyl

Thailand + nuclear reactors = BOOM

Be afraid, be very afraid

Sad but probably true.

However we do need to find alternatives to OIL........................

Good news: We found them already: Solar Energy. Free. Every day.

I'm not talking about Photo Voltaic, which is producing electricity using solar calls. This is possible, but still expensive.

However 50% (or more) of all electricity used in Thailand for air conditioning can get replaced by absorption chillers fed with heat from free sunshine, collected in solar collectors (the same you use for solar water heating). This technology is having a good ROI, especially in Thailand. There is no reason not to use it. Except of course if you're in love with the nuclear power plant next door.

... so many experts, yet none of them seem to have noticed that Thailand has no shortage of sunshine. Which is free! And also absorbtion chillers seem to be totally unknown to them. For everyone else: absorbtion chillers are an old technology which produces cold from heat. Meaning the hotter the sun shines, the more cold you get . Perfect for air conditioning.

This is no future technology, these systems are in use all over the world. Available for buildings starting at 150 m2. Ideal for hotels, resorts, offices, villages, factories, and so on. Thailand could easily save 50% of the electricity used for air conditioning. Replace it with sunshine. (Did I already mention that sunshine is free?)

Ok I admit it: there are not many companies in Thailand which can plan and implement such a system. But here is one: http://www.SiamGPI.com ...what do you say? Yes, of course, it is farang managed

I really wonder which NGOs did participate in that forum. Could it be that there have been just the non-governmental lobbying organizations of the nuclear power, coal and oil industry?

... so many experts, yet none of them seem to have noticed that Thailand has no shortage of sunshine. Which is free! And also absorbtion chillers seem to be totally unknown to them. For everyone else: absorbtion chillers are an old technology which produces cold from heat. Meaning the hotter the sun shines, the more cold you get . Perfect for air conditioning.

This is no future technology, these systems are in use all over the world. Available for buildings starting at 150 m2. Ideal for hotels, resorts, offices, villages, factories, and so on. Thailand could easily save 50% of the electricity used for air conditioning. Replace it with sunshine. (Did I already mention that sunshine is free?)

Ok I admit it: there are not many companies in Thailand which can plan and implement such a system. But here is one: http://www.SiamGPI.com ...what do you say? Yes, of course, it is farang managed

I really wonder which NGOs did participate in that forum. Could it be that there have been just the non-governmental lobbying organizations of the nuclear power, coal and oil industry?

... Rather than address that need and confront the naive economic nationalism that still prevails in Thai public discussion, ...

Yeah, well said: "naive economic nationalism" ! That's the real problem to fix. Do not talk about if these "naive economic nationalism" laws had been applied but throw them out completely and get some modern ones instead. Wake up, Thailand, there is so much to do!

Legally speaking when arrested for a crime in the US, you are neither innocent nor guilty, you are a 'suspect'. You are not presumed innocent, otherwise there would be no authority to arrest. You aren't innocent until the case is closed and verdict of 'not guilty' is entered into the record. Same as in most countries.

You often hear Americans contrast their legal system with the 'Napoleonic Code' (early legal basis for French law and passed on to most Latin American countries today) in a manner that suggests Napoleonic law presumed guilt, but that's another myth. Even under period-perfect Napoleonic Code, the legal structure did not encode a de jure presumption of guilt, e.g., the juror's oath explicitly recommended that the jury not betray the interests of the defendants, and there was much attention paid to the means of defense.

Just another couple of great American myths.

You have ever been in Napoleon's country?

There the judges themselves did rally in the streets not so long ago to protest against the enforcing of the "presumption of innocence", with the main argument that it would be too much work for them, it would be easier just to lock up any suspect, regardless of any proof, just based on the accusation.

No American myth needed, just reality in Napoleon's country, for centuries.

My dad always taught me that when you are a guest in another person's house, you ask permission before getting a beer out of the refridgerator. We, those of us living here are guests. I would encourage us to live quietly and peacefully. Let our "Jai rohn" tempers settle, and be pragmatic about the situation.

My 2 satang

Peace

Guests don't pay. You are closer to being a 'customer' in this country than a 'guest'.

Exactly, a guest would not have to pay, so it is only polite to ask before taking something out the fridge.

But how do you do it in a hotel, where you pay for the room and all services? Do you go down to the receiption every time you want to open the fridge to take out what you pay for anyway? I imagine them staring at you ....

And how about the in-laws. Does your son in law really have to ask you if he wants to take a beer out of the fridge he's paid for, in the house he's paid for, where he lives with your daughter whose cost of living he pays for, and your grandson (in whose production he was physically involved) whose cost of living and education he pays for, just because the house he paid for stands on your land, which you refuse to sell him so it is only in his wife's = your daughter's name, despite that the money to pay for it was from him.

I'm always amazed that some think that such an in-law is just a guest, and not a family member, not equal to the other family members.

Now my parents did teach me by example otherwise. They treat their children-in-law just like their own. They would feel offended if one of them asks if he can take something out of the fridge, even if they (the child-in-law) didn't pay for it.

You don't get an automatic right to live in any country just because you are married to someone..

wrong.

In all civilized countries you get the right to stay in the country if you are (genuinely) married to one of its citizens, and thats is usually based on the constitution. You might wanna take a look there first.

Stevie, this is just half a point and incomplete as it is quite useless.

CALIFORNIA CODES

HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE

SECTION 11150-11180

11153. (a) A prescription for a controlled substance shall only be

issued for a legitimate medical purpose by an individual practitioner

acting in the usual course of his or her professional practice.

First of all this is for "a controlled substance" so if you quote it than quote also the part of the list of controlled substances which lists Viagra, Cialis and friends.

While some medicines which require a prescription are controlled substances, others are not.

Then it is about "issuing a prescription" which is never mentioned in this case anywhere, it is about buying and selling and exporting / importing. You might wanna look up the regulations for that instead, such as buying/importing without a prescription.