Chutney

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrified-pal-murdered-brit-pair-4303495

Sorry, but why the xxx is the guy sitting with a guitar on the picture? That is just totally out of place...

Because the interview was taken on the ferry pier just before he left Tao - you can see that from the video as well.

So he was playing his guitar to calm his nerves????

He's on the boat. Have you ever been on those Island boats?! They are not equipped with special guitar racks. he's just holding it not serenading the journalists.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrified-pal-murdered-brit-pair-4303495

Sorry, but why the xxx is the guy sitting with a guitar on the picture? That is just totally out of place...

Well no not really. He's leaving, sitting on the boat, carrying his small backpack and his guitar. What else is he supposed to do with it?

No different to a thousand other young backpackers knocking around Asia with some kind of musical instrument ( or fire twirling sticks) and competing with one another to be the coolest lightest traveler. LPTT is awash with them earnestly discussing cutting their toothbrush in half to get the smallest lightest pack and bigging up their chilli tolerance.

He may be a bit of a knob but no reason to doubt his genuine distress and fear.

I wouldn't want to be getting off that ferry and trying to get to Samui / bangkok aiport on my own!!!!

it looks like he's not alone but has Embassy assistance and a posse of UK journalists in tow.

There was an article just up on the telegraph site about Sean and the mafia threat - link was posted 37mins ago and now it doesnt work!

He said he was threatened by two mafia men saying that they knew he was guilty and that they were going to make him hang from a tree and make it look like he had committed suicide. Said that he presumed they knew who was guilty but that they wanted to set him up. Not sure how that would working considering the DNA points to 2 Asians. Baffled..

Easily stitched up once there was a guilty guitar playing western 'suicide'. The speedboat boys take the wrap for rape fitting in nicely with unavoidable DNA evidence and do jail time for that but not the murder conviction. especially if they swear they then left her with him and know nothing about the male victim.

oh it's back up

He said:

"They just said to me: 'It was you who killed them. You've got two people's deaths on your hands. We know it was you. You're going to hang yourself tonight and we are going to watch you hang. You will die tonight.'"

"You've got two people's deaths on your hands" seems like quite idiomatic English for a Thai.

Probably paraphrased.

Did anybody do a sreenshot off facebook?

anybody out that pic on the one above to compare?

anyone confirm that he is the owner of the bar etc

looks like that picture tells a thousand stories if it is him

Definitely.

With these increasing rewards it will be worth for a wittness to wait a while ...

Not long it seems. Arrest reported this morning of son of well connected island family - after friend of Miller resident foreigner reported on FB his life was in danger and named who he said was killer. Not confirmed by police.

Reported where? Is this an official or credited source or just rumour?

Chutney,

I've already posted this on my facebook and also been in comms with some friends on Kho Tao but it's early doors there with them, and I doubt they'd jeopardise their position on the Island by intefering with the local Mafia mate, don't get me wrong, if I was there I'd do what I could, but these guys don't play by the same rules, and they're a lot more powerful than just standing up to them, they're too well connected, and this has beeen the problem right from day one.

FH.

Not suggesting for one moment anyone rushes in acting the cavalry but if just a few people were at least around in a normal manner it would give time for the Embassy, BK police, Media etc to hustle him out of there...and yes I do know what you're saying. Lived in LOS for quite a while.

One thing I find disconcerting (out of many) about this high profile heinous crime is the apparent lack of voluntary statements from the friends of the two victims. Or, if there were statements made, the lack of follow-up from the authorities.

I say this as it is only being said about the possible argument in the bar with a local gangster. To me, this would be a critical starting point in the investigation. All the speculation about DNA testing over the last week has been mind boggling, and while I have the greatest respect for evolving technology, sometimes the clues that are needed are staring you in the face.

Just my couple of bahts worth.

You're making a couple of assumptions there.

What makes you think that the group company they were in were friends? Could they not all have been meeting up for the first time in the bar?

Lack of statements? Another assumption, the Police managed to get the statements from the two brothers who were David's travelling companions easily enough.

Lack of follow up? You mean because the Keystone cops haven't openly stated anything it means they've done nothing?

But you do have some valid points, and I would, if I were on the case be trying to establish the following

Who was Hannah's travelling companion(s) or was she travelling alone?

How long had she been on the Island, and what was her routine whilst there ?

Was she the type of girl who was comfortable in her surroundings?

Did she frequent the bar in question, or was it a first night there?

Whom did she socialise with during the daylight hours and the same for the night time ?

Did she share a room with a female friend or was she on the Island alone ?

I'm sure there would be a Thai Detective smart enough to ask the same questions... perhaps

AS to why people who were in the bar are not coming forwards, there could be several reasons, visa and work permits or the lack of being one of them?

Knowing the reputation of the suspected bad guy, and not willing to shyt in your own nest, irrespective of the crime.

FEAR of the same thing happening to them..

Dear God! Did you ever think to actually follow any of the most basic facts about this case before posting that piffle? All of that information is widely accessible within the public domain. Please do some basic research before you inflict your foolish conjecture upon this board.

One thing to note is the guy that David shakes hands with on the CCTV is wearing black pants, and there are black pants with a belt among the clothing strewn on the beach near his body.

what CCTV is this?.... link?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-final-cctv-4291808

I've mentioned this previously but CCTV clearly shows that there was a sizeable group of foreign friends out with Hannah and David that night.

Have the police or media spoken to their friends about any out of the ordinary events that happened during that night? I may have missed them but I have not read any snippets of interviews from friends on Koh Tao at the time. This seems unusual?

Yes, but firstly: crippling shock at the horror of what has happened explains a disinclination to talk to the media on the part of genuine close friends. It doesn't mean that witness statements have not been taken and proffered.

For illegally casual working 'foreign' bar staff et al the first criteria was to get out of it before being flung into the frame with all the confusion and finger pointing they would know was coming their way.

The continued silence about what the victims and their friends and companions did (and when) on that night is the one positive emmerging from this mess. Perhaps the Police and or UK Embassy have moved to ensure that eminently pertinent information is kept out of the public domain. Any subsequent prosecution would heavily rely on the integrity of witness statements given the catastrophic contamination and doubt surounding forensics integrity in this case.

I'm not sure about the fisherman theory, aren't they all out at sea working at night anyway ? I've no idea what time they come back to shore though...sunrise ?

The likely theory to me is a local "big" guy losing face in the bar, the farang not knowing how to handle it properly and the Thai guy out to get him and the girl later on. It makes more sense in terms of motive than some random fishermen or migrant workers pouncing on them and taking it to the extreme they did. I still believe a big part of this hangs on what did or didn't happen in that bar and there must have been a fair few witnesses, so where are they ?

I agree with your theory, SPB65. Piecing together things that I've read on various threads on this case, here are my thoughts:

What I find hard to imagine is that someone would have killed these two young people so brutally without any motive. There was hate in the actions of these murderers - way beyond what might have been necessary to simply silence witnesses to a rape or a theft. To me, the brutality of the murders suggests that the murderers had a prior encounter with their victims, for which they wanted to make the victims "pay".

It has already been mentioned by others that the victims had an unpleasant encounter with a Thai man earlier in the evening when David intervened to protect Hannah from this man's unwanted attention. Anyone who has lived in Thailand long enough knows what the reaction of a Thai male would likely be in this situation, especially if he were a big shot not used to hearing "no".: He would seek revenge - later - with the help of friends. This man wanted to make David pay - for having prevented him from having the girl of his choice - on HIS island, or at the very least in HIS country. And he wanted to show both David and Hannah that he could have Hannah, if only by force.

Like you, SPB65, I am bewildered that the police do not appear to be pursuing such an obvious line of inquiry. As you said, there must have been lots of witnesses to the encounter in the bar. One possible explanation is that the murderer is indeed the son of an influential person on the island, and, in exchange for a lot of money, the police have been instructed to "play dumb" - something that their reputation makes it easy for them to do without raising suspicion. (Remember the case of the Red Bull heir who even managed to get away with killing a policeman?! In Thailand, money can get the police to look the other way.)

There is also the matter of "face" for Thailand as a country: It is clear that the powers-that-be are desperate to show that this crime was not committed by Thais - out of fear of loss of tourism revenue.

So I'm afraid that the only way this crime is going to be solved is when not solving it becomes more costly to the police (and the country) than solving it.

Completely agree with this in all respects. Well summed up without hyperbole.

Furthermore wtnesses of what happened at the bar and possible details of when the victims left ( together or seperately) will be very nervous about speaking up in consideration of their own safety. There may well be much more information emerging once people have got themselves safely out of there.

There's already a "theory" as to why this murder took place on the backpacker detained thread, It was posted to Hannah's facebook page that she was getting unwanted attention from a Thai, and influential Thai on the Island, and David stepped in, its being talked about in Koh Tao that this guy and another waited outside for them and well... the rest of the details are all there.

It's been suggested that it's a cover up as the Thai in question is a relation of some sort of the owner(s) of the Island.. don't take my words for it and rip them to shreds, read through the thread that's 30 odd pages long..

Where is the Facebook link?

It has ( understandably) been removed by her family from her personal FB page which is now closed to would be gawpers getting off on all this.

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So much false and rumor info being passed around by the police and media. Police should stop releasing theories until they have the facts.

Like whose semen was found on the girl? does it match David Miller?

Does the victims DNA match the ones on the cigarette butt?

And the bloody piece of clothing found in Christopher Ware, does any of the victims DNA match the blood sample? Does it match Christophers?

If the facts are there, so much rumor can be cleared up.

I think it is obvious that the Semen DNA did not match David Miller. The cigarette butts as well, otherwise they would not hold them for evidence. But the DNA from the semen also matched a cigarette butt, so it is assumed that this person with that DNA is the prime suspect.

Another post said that none of the DNA from Christopher matched any of the evidence found at the crime scene or from the victims. So it was not his semen or cigarette butt, or blood on his shirt, which would put him at the crime scene,

All this speculation when the forensic results are in and have been released! NO dna found on the female victim matched David Miller or his two room mates /friends nor that of the 9 Burmese workers tested. DNA of one of two specimens on/in her body however did match that on one cigarette butt. Nobody tested so far matches those positive samples.

There. That wasn't so hard was it?

My insurance will not cover me for flight/trip cancellation as the insurance was bought after the UK gov put up an official warning.

It covers me for any medical problems and the usual baggage /money etc out of the named flood areas . It does not cover for Bangkok but does include cover for transit through SVB Airport.

So if I break my leg down south or in Chiang Mai I get cover. If I enter any designated flood area and suffer any injury /illness it won't. If the situation changes and floods affect an area not mentioned in Gov warning at the time I purchased insurance I am supposed to be covered.

My experience of Insurance cover in the past however is that they always find a way to avoid pay out. This being only my personal experience and opinion of insurance companies you understand.

Anyway hope this helps. Check your own country Government stance on travel alert and then clarify with your insurance company before handing over any money.

Not sure if it's any help but I have had several problems with various online booking/payment agencies/ systems during the last 2 weeks since the floods have put massive strain on everything.

Been overcharged, given totally wrong booking dates, full amounts taken when only deposit or nothing was supposed to happen and in one case apparently booked into some hotel I never heard of.

Different organisations in each case.

Systems may simply be screwed up due to overload so it's just another thing to be aware of and chase up if it goes wrong on you right now.

Glad you got it sorted at least.

trains running to Chiang Mai via long diversion round central flood areas from Bangkok Hua lamphung. At present anyway and accepting online bookings.

route info here

online booking here

From what I know buses are doing the same involving long detours but pretty hideous journey times stuck in a bus seat.

Good luck.

1.I know I'll get charged as obviously no system could possibly be affected by overload due to flood disruption . Certainly not the time to argue the toss.

2.No matter as long as I can do it.

3.I know anything and everything is going to cost during this situation. For example I doubt any taxis still around in Bangkok will be willing to put the meter on.

@1.For NOW this charge is waived. on the SRT www

@2.you can always do it-but you loose more. Can give ticket back till dep-and get 50% paid out back immediately. They always tell here farang have the money too much anyway and that trains are so cheap? Wining about an odd pound? Cannot even pay a bus in London with that.

@3.you are wrong again-do not be so neg about Thai. They are glad with any fare-think-50% of BKKians have left=many fewer to go. But they will not go into too high floods. Also cabbies complain that some Thai simply refuse to pay when they end at some flood, get asked to pay the meter and not reach destination.

Making allowances for the indication that English language is not your strong point I suggest you read posts more carefully before putting the boot in.

I clearly say that I expect many things to be more expensive than usual due to the current crisis not whining about the odd pound.

If a taxi wants to strike a deal rather than use the meter because of possible/probable hold ups and long journey length I do not blame him and it's up to me to decide to agree or not.

Having lived in Thailand with Thai people I deeply resent your comment describing me as 'wrong' and 'negative'. Frankly your remarks are insulting both to me and to Thais.

Thai friends have taken the trouble to phone me in UK to offer places to stay and help sorting out transport if I need it.

I neither know nor care if you are a troll or simply an idiot but as your comments are incorrect in fact, speculation on the whole and utterly useless overall, please don't waste my time.

Thanks both of you.

I know I'll get charged as obviously no system could possibly be affected by overload due to flood disruption . Certainly not the time to argue the toss.

No matter as long as I can do it.

I know anything and everything is going to cost during this situation. For example I doubt any taxis still around in Bangkok will be willing to put the meter on.

Train: Either go to the station if you are in Bangkok now or pay the fee for one of the travel agents to do it for you. They'll put 150-200 B on top for a night sleeper 2 class air con but it makes it easy.

They'll call then and there and be able to tell you immediately what there is available and send a guy on a bike to collect your ticket.

There's a bit of space per seat for one bag , the other you'll have to take to bed with you . Shove it down by your feet in your bunk.

Booking online is usually fine when the sites up but as per my post it went nuts on me and I've paid for tickets I chose but ended up getting completely wrong ones for print out and THAT is what I'm booked on.

With the current situation clearly some things like electronic systems will screw up. I'd go for the travel agent option if I were you.

As for buses. Check as you go. 'Everything' is changeable for now and certainly a few weeks.

As for travelling alone: Unless you are in some way responsible for the floods I can't see anyone taking their angst out on you unless you do or say something crassly insensitive!

Given my arrival on 16Nov and no insurance cover to enter Bangkok itself at that time I used the state railway ticket purchase site to book various trains for December.

2 were OK. 2 others for 2 people are completely wrong but the payment was taken according to the correct journeys shown.

However when the tickets came up for print off they are wrong.

The tickets are in one case for much further down the line ( not such a deal if we can get off where we need to just been charged a bit more) but the other is for the day 'after' I booked which will mean I miss my flight home from Bangkok.

Getting that changed is priority.

I realise the system is under enormous strain and if it wasn't for the expense. About £110.00 in total I'd just write it off but what I need to do is change them.

Can't do that till I'm in Thailand.

From what I can read everywhere it has to be changed at point of departure.

Stuffed for Hualamphong as I've changed booking to hotel near airport to just fly up to CM on flight I grabbed for 3 days after arrival as travel insurance won't cover me in Bangkok itself.

Does anyone know if it's possible ( which seems to be suggested) to change tickets at any large station ( not the one the ticket is going from) which has the electronic ticketing system please? if so does Chiang Mai have it? Have spent 2 days searching but no clear info.

No answer to any phone calls and the emergency hotline not operational from UK just in Thailand.

Don't want to bother people struggling with the situation in BKK with this so hope I can find some help on CM board. Many thanks for any help.

** Note ticket from CM is OK but ticket from Surat Thani to BKK later I need to get changed from Chiang Mai if possible. Help.

Given my arrival on 16Nov and no insurance cover to enter Bangkok itself at that time I used the state railway ticket purchase site to book various trains for December.

2 were OK. 2 others for 2 people are completely wrong but the payment was taken according to the correct journeys shown.

However when the tickets came up for print off they are wrong.

The tickets are in one case for much further down the line ( not such a deal if we can get off where we need to just been charged a bit more) but the other is for the day 'after' I booked which will mean I miss my flight home from Bangkok.

Getting that changed is priority.

I realise the system is under enormous strain and if it wasn't for the expense. About £110.00 in total I'd just write it off but what I need to do is change them.

Can't do that till I'm in Thailand.

From what I can read everywhere it has to be changed at point of departure.

Stuffed for Hualamphong as I've changed booking to hotel near airport to just fly up to CM on flight I grabbed for 3 days after arrival as travel insurance won't cover me in Bangkok itself.

Does anyone know if it's possible ( which seems to be suggested) to change tickets at any large station ( not the one the ticket is going from) which has the electronic ticketing system please? if so does Chiang Mai have it? Have spent 2 days searching but no clear info.

No answer to any phone calls and the emergency hotline not operational from UK just in Thailand.

Don't want to bother people struggling with the situation in BKK with this so hope I can find some help on CM board. Many thanks for any help.

Oh for goodness sake!

My patience has deserted me.

I can't find anywhere, here, on Google or anywhere which clearly directs to an organisation or payment process for aid contributions.

Can the mods please put a thread up specifically?

Yes there are all sorts of promo sites of nothing I've ever heard of 'Thai floods gissus yer money' dodgy ones.

However even the UK red cross though citing it's involvement has a drop down menu for contributions and it's not even on it!

Then there's Tesco and coca cola. How much is going to actually get through?

Following links just gets to blood donations, complex local bank transfers in Thailand etc.

I want something which will enable swift easy paypal or card payment online to wring some dosh out of everybody I know in UK.

Before I leave here for BK I want to set up a clear link on my varied web presence and directly email all business, personal contacts and get a few quid in.

An organisation which is channelling money efficiently and quickly please. Anybody?

I can't believe I'm weighing childrens wellington boots in a fairly futile attempt to fill my baggage allowance.

That's as daft as Ying wotsits photo shoot gracefully giving out a few bags in a boat.

Could get some money rolling in if only there was some clarity on who to trust!

I'm buggered if I'm going to try and bring over a suitcase full of eggs though......

Busiest thread so: What/who/where best organisation to direct contributions via my site, business links and facebook etc?

Mods please move as appropriate but I can't find any specific thread and looking for most 'efficient' set up to channel aid.

Ta.