GazR

Reality Check: I can't see any way out of avoiding another coup unless the government, the opposition and representatives of civil society are able to come together and negotiate a binding tri-partite agreement in good faith as the TDRI has suggested. Ideally, there would be only two representatives from each side (six in all) with an agreement by any two parties considered binding and two soldiers outside the door to keep them locked in until they reach a comprehensive agreement. However, as we have seen before, in practical terms there would also need to be phone links for the politicians to contact their own leaders who would not show themselves while (again) holding veto power. Of course, you can multiply those numbers by however much you like, but any workable solution would require the same or similar calculus. Fortunately, to paraphrase JFK, "The things that unite us as Thais are greater than the things that divide us." Of course this shouldn't really include the nominally Thai of Malay descent, unless there is a radical revision to the monolithic state ethos of 'Thai'.

This is chess, not checkers. Sure Suthep's crazy - like a fox. And like the Red Shirt's in 2010, he's always had a pretty good idea of what his options are - although I doubt POW SIRIRAJ! POW KRUNGTHEP! are among them as they were for the Red Shirts.

what do you mean can't stand her brother? He was his protege as long as he followed the elites orders. They only fell out when Thaksin became so popular that they lost control over him.

They only fell out after Thaksin made it clear that it was time for Thailand to have a president.

Reminds me of an episode of The Westwing where, as I recall, the Secretary of State explains to a group eager to have a 'real' American-style President instead of a mere Prime Minister that in practice it really only works in half a dozen countries or so around the world and that a parliamentary system is actually better at providing effective government. Maybe not great, but better, and the fact that the UK has managed to maintain a stable democracy without a written constitution lends credence to that view.

Sadly, the terms semi-feudal, semi-democratic, and semi-failed state appear beyond the abilities of some people to fathom or even contemplate sensibly. Never mind - drink up!

Asked whether she has discussed any political issue with Gen. Prem, Ms. Yingluck simply smiled and left the press conference.

It appears this is Yinglucks strategy, smile and walk away or cry and give speech then walk away and smile.

Do grow up, Waza. This was a private meeting. It would have been the hight of bad manners to have come out of the door and start spouting off about "he said this" and "I said that". If you notice, Gen. Prayuth also had the courtesy to keep his mouth shut.

I just wish your side could engage in proper debate, and not this constant sniggering and bitching about YS as a person..

And I wish 'your side' could engage in proper debate, and not this constant sniggering and bitching about AV, ST and what happened 3 years ago.

She is Thaksin's sock puppet, she has no idea what is going on and won't answer any questions until she has reported back to the fugitive and been debriefed.

Yingluck : Please stop those nasty protestors and let me bring my brother back, please please.

Gen : Can't.

Yingluck : Why not ?

Gen : Not my job, army stays out of politics.

If it turns violent then the army may step in to stop the violence. So those of you asking what the government has to gain by violence, army doesn't always mean coup. If it turns violent the army can step in to stop the violence and force the protestors away as happened in 2010. Depends who causes the violence hence the 'men in black' and the hit and run incidents from the government side, they want as much plausible deniability as possible.

Best post so far - by a mile!

Verily a mountain to climb and the Aegean stables to clean out as well.

Game over, then.

There's deffo gonna be a military coup.

Orwell was right (he's always right).

Doublespeak as in "I cannot foresee my ever challenging for the leadership" whenever a politician is asked if he/she wants to be the boss.

Not so fast: As I recall, in one of his Wartime Diaries I-V, Orwell expressed the view that Gandhi's non-violent protests presented no great threat to British rule as they would ultimately prove ineffective against military force. I'm not saying he was wrong about this, I'm just saying we will never know if he was right.

No, he was right.

Any unarmed group facing down an army is gonna be pretty ineffective, I'd wager.

As you say though, it never came to that as Britain was already tired of Empire by that point.

Good thing, too.

Well, he was writing DURING the war, so on one side there was Churchill the wartime British PM who was dead against losing 'the jewel in the crown of empire' and on the other was the quid pro quo to the Indians for helping to defeat the Axis Powers. I guess he though that Churchill and the army of the Raj would prevail at least a while longer.

Hub of Flubs

Game over, then.

There's deffo gonna be a military coup.

Orwell was right (he's always right).

Doublespeak as in "I cannot foresee my ever challenging for the leadership" whenever a politician is asked if he/she wants to be the boss.

Not so fast: As I recall, in one of his Wartime Diaries I-V, Orwell expressed the view that Gandhi's non-violent protests presented no great threat to British rule as they would ultimately prove ineffective against military force. I'm not saying he was wrong about this, I'm just saying we will never know if he was right.

Vote: Just say NO.

Possibly it suits everyone's purpose that he remains out of the country. Might explain the ease with which he fled the country.

He didn't flee, he was ousted in a military coup while holding a lecture about democracy at the U.N. Then he was convicted on trumped up charges and never extradited. And now you claim this was due to it being best for everyone. I want what you are smoking.

He fled while his proxies the PPP were in power. I guess the box of donuts didn't have quite enough cash in it.

Not Thaksin's finest hour i.e. attempted bribery of judges with 'snackbox' of cash and caught red-handed if not personally.

Just another pawn sacrificed to his blind greed and delusions of grandeur.

Poor old Suthep - Absolutely clueless. Fouling his own nest BKK over the Holiday Season. Unbelievable. Posturing and strutting like a little Mussolini, arms folded, jut-jawed, and full of himself. This guy is headed for a fall, big time ...

Hey - it worked for Mussolini (for a while) just as "POW SIRIRAJ - POW KRUNGTHEP" and the ensuing deaths

worked for Thaksin (for a while). BTW has Suthep defined what he means by "shut down" - I don't think so.

We'll all just have to wait and see...

Personally, I shall follow C.G. Jung's injunction to resist mightily the herd instinct and the herd mentality that goes with it.

Democracy is a wonderful illusion in Thailand when it is the result of populist programs like the rice pledging scam paying too much, the first car rebate program and inferior tablets for children all paid for with the money of the next elected government and all of the people, including those who don't receive any of the benefits. Many/most Isaan Thais would vote for Kim Jun-un for a 500 baht "gift". The increased minimum wages have less value than before the increase. Inflation is soaring if you check what you actually pay instead of reading the government's reports. Food, petrol and electricity have all increased greatly. Many things that I regularly purchase have increased 30-50% in the last two years. The "high speed" (not bullet) train fiasco will bring huge rewards to those who are connected and place the country in a whole new super level of debt for the next 50 years. Yes democracy and mostly the result of a democratically bought election.

You are a fool if you think the Shins have any concern for the typical and poor Thai. The people are simply a steppingstone for their goals of more wealth and power. Suthep has distanced himself from the other political parties and that is good. He will go away after the Shins have been removed from power. Suthep is "over the top" at times, but the man is the only one with big enough balls to do what needs to be done to rid Thailand of the Shins and their self serving interests. If a military coup is needed to complete the task, then let it be.

I somehow don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

Any government who gets in anywhere in the world is corrupt so where you think the Thais can find on here that would not be corrupt bewilders me.

At least with Thaksin he didn't try to hide being corrut. He would be the first to admit that he is/was BUT he still gave a lot to not only the people in the North but to all Thais. Lets just say his Internet satalite for instance and he strongly believed that without GOOD Internet that Thailand will fall behind which has happened since he was ousted. I have NEVER has decent internet in Thailand and if you don't think it is important these days then you are kidding yourself.

So the people have 2 choices:

1) A govenment that is corrupt but gives back to the people and especially the farmers who are the most important people in the world or

2) A government that won't admit they are corrupt, hides everything from the people and gives back absolutely ZERO to the people.

Not the best choices but true.

PS: I am not a supporter of either group however I do care about my existance here.

Re "Thaksin would be the first to admit he was corrupt." LOL - Sorry dude, but that's gotta be the dumbest comment of the year.

After 70 years of UNBROKEN POLITICAL OPPRESSION by ruling elites, IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE.

I absolutely do not agree with Bangkok being held hostage. It's over the top. Peaceful protest is OK by me. Mind you once again I post on the subject that people

seem to pass by again and again. The reason they don't want elections with the biased system is here again:

Some people don't seem to understand why the Democrats and yellow shirts do NOT WANT elections right now. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks. All in all, I am NOT a Suthep supporter. But fairness needs to be in place before an election is being held and the Shins can claim another

fake victory bought with money and bending the rules.

The democrats under Abhisit Vejjajiva were in Power for 2 years and 239 day if the system is so unfair as you describe why he and his party did not make the changes. They did not do any changes at all. Therefore don't blame it to the Shins.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor is there much in the way of magic dust: Real education reforms and real rice payment reforms aimed at making those parts of the system better serve the citizens of Thailand were of course reversed (and made sillier) by Thaksin as part of his effort to demonize Abhisit in order to forestall calm, rational policy discussion. Do you support that ?

This is now escalating into what.....

It is escalating into what should have happened decades ago.

A serious reform of the political system, instead of empty promises to work on a reform, but in reality just continue to loot the state coffers

Despite the pent-up social desire to at least begin a thorough clean-up and to put into place a modern, functional system which better reflects the aspirations of the vast majority from across the political and social spectrum, nothing much has actually changed. Very few people actually want things to go on as they have (pretty much) always been, except for some of the elite and their hangers-on, so this is high-stakes poker for the future of Thailand and who gets to share the pot. The TDRI's proposal for BINDING reforms to be thrashed out in three-way negotiations between the government, the opposition and representatives from across the social spectrum seems to be the best way out, but it may well take a coup as a last resort to 'get her done'. Not the military's preferred solution, I'm sure, but unfortunately it looks increasing likely: Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

This is now escalating into what.....

It is escalating into what should have happened decades ago.

A serious reform of the political system, instead of empty promises to work on a reform, but in reality just continue to loot the state coffers

Despite the pent-up social desire to at least begin a thorough clean-up and to put into place a modern, functional system which better reflects the aspirations of the vast majority from across the political and social spectrum, nothing much has actually changed. Very few people actually want things to go on as they have (pretty much) always been, except for some of the elite and their hangers-on, so this is high-stakes poker for the future of Thailand and who gets to share the pot. The TDRI's proposal for BINDING reforms to be thrashed out in three-way negotiations between the government, the opposition and representatives from across the social spectrum seems to be the best way out, but it may well take a coup as a last resort to 'get her done'. Not the military's preferred solution, I'm sure, but unfortunately it is looking increasing likely: Merry Xmas and Happy new Year.

Never claimed I was right. But no one here has so far been able to answer me why no extradition was sought to bring him to Justice here in Thailand.

Personally I think you are all a bunch of hypocritical fascists who are using the corruption charges as an excuse to get rid of this man who was elected by a majority of the Thai people.

Now I will leave you all at peace to spew your hatred against Thaksin and the Thai democratic system. Have fun.

I answered your question in post #52, do you read what other write or are you so busy posting your own whatever it is?

Ditto re post#58 (mine)

Possibly it suits everyone's purpose that he remains out of the country. Might explain the ease with which he fled the country.

He didn't flee, he was ousted in a military coup while holding a lecture about democracy at the U.N. Then he was convicted on trumped up charges and never extradited. And now you claim this was due to it being best for everyone. I want what you are smoking.

wrong...charged and convicted of a dodgy land deal involving his wife...then did a runner to escape a jail term. If you were smoking anything under the Thaksin rule you would probably be dead under the war on drugs scam.

Enough temper tantrums: The plain fact is that while out on bail, Thaksin asked to be allowed to go to China to watch the Olympic Games in Beijing, and he then became one of Thailand's most famous 'runners'. In fact, most if not all of Thailand's best 'runners' have been closely associated with Thaksin.

I'm guessing that the multi-billionaire criminal fugitive wasn't extradited because most countries do not extradite bail-jumpers to a country where there has been a coup as the politics of coups would be too hard for their voters to understand and so it would just make them look bad. Then of course, they might prefer to continue doing business there with the next govt. rather than stand on principle - and a rather lonely stand it would be: 'Money makes the world go round', doncha know ?

A coup is the last resort when all other reasonable options are exhausted.

Since when do kids play high-stakes poker ?

More playground pushing and shoving. They'll be sticking theor tongues out at each other next.

Hard to imagine these people want to run the country but it typifies Thai politics.

I hope I'm wrong, but as the government has shown itself unwilling to take on the railways union, I doubt whether it will prove to be any different with the teachers union, so those minority vested interests supporting the status quo will continue to dominate both policy and policy implementation thereby continuing to deny the vast majority of Thai people the means of becoming better-paid 'knowledge workers'.