chiangrai57020

Prologue

The wife and I arrived back in Thailand after a 14 year absence in October 1998. Until we made up our mind as to whether to remain in Thailand it was decided that we would rent a house. The wife wanted to rent her sisters house in the village. I wanted to rent away from the village. She won.

Renting for at least a year is an option that I would recommend to anyone that is contemplating living in Thailand. Give yourself this time to decide if Thailand is for you.

More than a year passes and the wife decides she has to have her own place to live. I suggested we move away from the village. She decided that ‘we’ would build in the village! I will not go into the Why.

The wife finds a ¾ Rai plot of land and I purchase it for 60,000 baht (registered in her name, of course). This was January 2000 and she wanted to have a house by the end of April 2000.

The Beginning:

When I left the USA in 1998 I had no knowledge of the home building trades. Using the 1st year we were here I learned, through the internet, everything I could about concrete, plumbing, electrical, roof and rafters, etc. I strongly advise anyone that is planning to build a home to do likewise.

Design Phase: During the 1st year I spent many hours doing pencil and paper drawings of houses that I could probably get built. When the lot was finely bought, I sketched out the dimensions of the lot and designed several more house plans that would fit the lot. I wanted something small but livable which resulted in the drawing below. The initial plan was to have a basic house, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, large living room, with an attached carport and outdoor kitchen. It did not quite work out that way!

Materials Pricing Phase: Not having any idea what it would cost to build the house and not wanting to take a WAG (Wild Arse Guess), I decided to start going to various businesses to get prices. In 2000 there was not much in the way of choices as to materials or suppliers. I took the measurements of concrete blocks and using the plans determined the number of blocks that would be needed, remembering to subtract for windows and doors! There were only two alternatives for building a house at that time - bricks or hollow blocks. I went with the hollow concrete blocks because I could use vertical rebar for structural integrity. The pricing of materials included everything from electrical sockets and plugs, PVC pipe for water and sewage, paint, floor tiles, wall tiles, windows, light fixtures, faucets, shower heads, sinks, toilets, and the list goes on. I missed almost nothing.

The items that I could not price, such as, steel for roof rafters, bags of cement (estimated), sand, gravel, etc. I simply took a WAG. After the completion of the house, and during the course of building, I compared the initial price I came up with and the actual cost of materials. Surprisingly, the actual cost to build was 57,000 baht more than I had estimated. So it pays to price materials before beginning construction. You do not want to run out of money before the house is completed!

In the next part I will provide a picture of the completed house and the actual cost to complete the house. It may surprise a lot of people!

<font color='#0000FF'>Taken a lead here from "Chonabot"

I want to build a house soon in Korat, Does anybody want to post here Cost, Style, Size and experience etc.

I am thinking about a 3 bed, 2 storey house (1/2 Thai 1/2 european style) some A/C, Euro kitchen, office downstairs etc etc, house footprint about 10mtr x 15 mtr in a Thai Moo-Barn village. I am thinking about 2m-thb is this enough ?  (*as always the land is offered free*) all ideas greatly appreciated.

The only ideas I have found is from Lundy Homes but I dont think they will build out of town, and I think thier expensive.

Does anyone have a website and photos of the house you  have built, please post here.

All help needed    TA</font>

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Plumbing:  Make sure that you keep plenty of White Plastic plumbers tape on hand!  Most of the plumbing is done using PVC with fixture attachments made of metal.  You cannot simply buy a fixture and screw it onto the pipe.  It just does not work.  You will have to put yards of tape on the fixture or pipe if you do not want leaking fixtures.  In addition, put shut-off valves at each fixture.  You will save yourself a lot of headaches.  As for buying fixtures, buy brand name fixtures.  Until I got ‘smart’ I was purchasing shower heads, faucets, etc. every month or so.  They simply start freezing up, leaking, fall apart, etc.  You will pay more for brand name but they will last much longer.  And, you cannot get replacements parts for anything in Thailand (at least that has been my experience).

Electrical:  Keep plenty of light bulbs on hand!  You can buy the high energy efficient bulbs but they do not come close to lasting the 20,000 + hours advertised (so do as the Thai’s - buy the cheap ones).  There are just too many power surge’s.  It seems as though every time I turn on a light, it shorts out.

I had no plumbing or electrical experience when I came to Thailand 7 years ago.  In Thailand you have to learn to take care of your own problems that occur in the home.  You cannot call the Plumber or the Electrician - there are none.  And the Yellow Pages are worthless!

What I have just stated has to be clarified.  The above applies if you are living in a small village away from a major city.  If you are living in Bangkok, Chiangmai, Pattaya, or other major city, there may be services available.

If you plan to build a house learn as much as you can from the internet about everything relating to plumbing, electrical, concrete, etc.  There are many web sites that explain everything in detail.  It will be well worth your while.  When the ‘rice farmer’ come ‘expert’ home builder starts to lay your drain pipe for the sewer system, you will no if he is doing it correctly.  Or if the electrician decides to put your entire house electrical system on 1 or 2 breakers, you will no what to do.  When the ‘site’ supervisor wants to lay a 2" concrete slab, you will no what to do. 

I do not advise anyone that is contemplating building a house ‘in the country’ to leave it to the ‘rice farmer’ to do everything correctly.  Do not walk away and come back in 2-3 months and expect to have a fully functional, expertly constructed house.  There are ‘workers’ that have built many houses in Thailand but even they cut corners.  When the roof starts to leak at the beginning of the next rainy season, you will no what I am talking about.  In 1 or 2 years when the house finally starts to settle and you find doors that do not close properly, or there are cracks in the walls (sometimes ‘large’), you can sit back and wonder why!  Or the sewer system backs up and there is no clean out trap, you can wonder why.

This is not written to scare anybody that is planning to build a house in Thailand.  The purpose is to make you understand that ‘country’ construction workers do not have the training to accomplish what we refer to as ‘standards’ or ‘standard practice’.

Good luck.

Try 'Moth Balls'! They seem to be working for me. Several months of having to srub using baking soda and vinegar, and then bleach, without any success, until I found and used moth balls. For whatever reason, the mold has not returned.

I don't want to be the spoil-sport in this discussion but I believe I would look into the 'Safety' aspects of the vehicles you have in mind.

Looking at several vehicles, trucks and cars, that have been involved in accidents - Safety would be the first thing I would look at. Thailand does not build trucks or cars with 'safety' in mind! The vehicles I have seen have been 'crushed'! Most developed countries have laws regarding built in safety of vehicles. As fas as I know, which isn't much, Thailand does not consider safety!

Just my two cents worth. Hope knowone is offended!

I have posted this request for help in other postings but it may get lost or not seen.

Presently living approx. 40 KM north of Chiangrai and going 'Nuts'!

Would like to move into Chiangrai or at least within 3-6 KM of CR.

If anyone has knowledge of a relatively New 1 or 2 story, 2 - 3 bedroom house, Not townhouse or condo, for rent - Please PM me.

Do not care about cost as long as it is reasonable - OK! 3,000 - 5,000 Baht.

Any help in this regard will be much appreciated.

Al

I would be very careful about what volunteering you do. I have been reading 'posts' from the main TV forums - specifically buying land and houses.

One of the 'posts' mentioned a fellow who got arrested and put in jail for 2 days for 'Cutting His Grass'. The court, through the case out BUT not before the guy spent several 10,000s Baht!

In another case, someone was digging a hole for a 'garbage pit' in his yard and was arrested. Again, the case got thrown out.

When I first arrived in Thailand some 7 years ago the local school principle ask me to teach 2-3 days a week English to his students. I checked with Mae Sai immigration as to whether this would be permisable. In a word 'NO'.

So, I guess, word to the wise. I wonder what would happen if I had a 'Flat tire' and changed it. Would that be considered 'WORK'.

Forgot to mention. The problem is that if you 'upset' the wrong Thai we could find ourselves in the same situation - trying to bail ourselves out of jail or pay some 'bribe'.

My preference would be for condo style accommodation in a central location in the city of Chiang Rai.

Thanks all in anticipation,

.... Mr. Sandman wrote.

It is recommendable NOT to try to solve this matter on forehand.

That approach is mostly accompagnied by a too high price-tag.

Don't buy out of a brochure or website. First buyers in housing projects pay many times at least 20 % too much, because they pay for the infrastructure as well.

There are good housing projects around Chiangrai, but you have to be here to notice the difference.

Rent first and take your time. Some hotels or guesthouses have good accommodation and, rented on a monthly base, hardly more expensive than the rent of an average house.

There is few condo style accommodation, at least when you are looking for something bigger than 36 square meters (the Condotel). And don't underestimate the noise in central Chiang Rai.

After a while you will have a motorbike or a car and a few kilometers outside won't make the difference then. For four to six thousand Baht you can rent a decent house on a decent location.

Don't ask tuktuk-drivers! A friend was driven out to a piece of land which was for sale. There another five tuktuks were waiting. They told that the land would be 16 million Baht. Later that evening the owner phoned and told that is was 10 million.

6 Tuktukdrivers, 6 million Baht commission!

When the time comes.... don't worry. There is no foreigner sleeping on the street (yet) in Chiangrai!

Limbo

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This is not a reply but a request.

Anyone know of a 2 or 3 bedroom house, relatively New, for rent? I do not care about price as long as it is within reason. I no about Country Homes and not interested. It has gotten pretty well run down!

Presently living in a small town 40 KM north of Chiangrai and I am going 'Bunkers' - that's crazy for those that do not understand the other word!

Any help would be appreciated. PM me. Al

For those interested in DSL service. I live 40 KM outside Chiangrai and have had TT&T phone service. For DSL I have been using LOXINFO for over a year. In a word - 'excellant'. It is my understanding that TOT is terrible for DSL service! I do not know this for a fact - just heresay. I plan to move to Chiangrai in the very near future and understand from TT&T that I can get there service when I move. If I can I will stick with them and LOXINFO(?).

Side Note: Does anyone know where I can Rent a 2 or 3 bedroom relatively New HOUSE in Chiangrai - Not town-house - free standing. ANYWHERE as long as it is within a 3-6 KM area. Do not care about cost.

Thanks for any and all replies. PM me - Anytime.

Thanks

Al

Please understand that most, if not all, the Ampur's in Thailand operate under their OWN rules and regulations! Thai laws and regulations from Bangkok do not apply.

That said, I spent 2 hours with a Thai lawyer in Chiangrai this morning. The wife and I want to purchase land to build a home. Neither one of us are Thai citizens. The son (age 8) IS a Thai citizen. Don't Ask!! Too complicated.

Anyway, the lawyer was very specific when I asked him if the Land could be purchased in the childs name. The answer was - YES. Can the childs name be registered on the Chanot Ti Din as owner - YES. Can the mother (Non-Thai) be recorded on the Chanote Ti Din as Usufraut - NO. Can my name be entered on the Chanote Ti Din as Usufraut - YES. Wait a minute 'I say' - Why me but not the mother? Because if something happen to the son before reaching age 20 the mother is the legal heir to the Land.

I specifically asked the lawyer, many times throughout the discusion, If he was absolutely sure about what he was telling me. He stated YES - 'No problem!!

We plan to purchase and register the Land in about a month. The lawyer is diffinately going to do the processing Because I have my doubts about what he told me! Will provide an update upon completion of the transaction - If anyone is interested.

In spite of diligent reading I have not yet 100% cracked this one!

Can a child with Thai Birth Certificate/Passport (and also a UK passport and birth certificate) but a farang father own land/property?

If yes..Where is the money the money supposed to come from? Child's UK/Thai Bank account..Mother's UK Bank account....What other documentation would be required...affirmation that money is all derived from mother's earnings..what else?

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I just returned from visiting a Thai lawyer. Got tired of waiting for Sunbelt Asia to reply!

The lawyer stated, specificly, that a Thai citizen minor (8 years) CAN own land and be recorded on the Chanote Ti Din (Land Document) as the owner. He also stated that the land could not be sold until the minor turned 20 years of age. I specifically asked if it was a requirement to have an adult Thai nominee sponsor (owner). He stated, again, specifically, that no Adult was required. I asked about entering the mother's name (a Thai non-citizen) on the document as a Usufraut and he stated it could NOT be done BUT for some reason my name could be added to the Chanote as Usufraut!!!

Here is the problem! I have lived in 4 different Ampur's since arriving in Thailand 7 years ago. Everyone of them operate under their OWN rules. Where one says a certain thing can be down, another will say - NO WAY!! Laws and rules do not seem to apply anywhere, with the possible exception of the Courts!!

Hope this helps!

EDIT NOTE: Had to correct selling error.

In addition to the above. I asked the Thai lawyer, What would happen to the Land if the child would to die before the mother obtained her Thai citizenship? Would she loose the Land? He specifically stated that since the mother was the heir that the Land would be transferred to her EVEN though she is not a Thai citizen???? (Hummm!) I have my doubts about this one. This will have to be confirmed with the 'rulers' at the Ampur.

As soon as we go through the entire procedure of purchasing the land and registering the land, I will provide an update. May be as long as a month from now.

Recently, October 2004, filed for divorce from my wife. Hired a lawyer who could bearly speak English. In December 2004, not hearing from him for 2 months, I went back to him to find out why he had not contacted me. He did not remember me! So, started over again and paid him his 10,000 Baht fee.

To make a very long story short. The wife was in the USA on one of her annual trips (1 each of 5 years). My son emailed me to tell me that she was not coming back (1966 all over again) - Dear John! Of course being that I was in Thailand, I went to the nearest bar and .........!

Oh! Forgot. She did come to Thailand in October 2004 and wanted to meet me at the local Amphur to file for divorce. So I traveled the 100 KM to the Ampur, at her chosen time - No wife. So I call her on the cell phone. 'I am getting my hair done and will be there in 2-3 hours!' Had no place to go so sat and waited. She comes 'struting' up to me, pointing her finger in my face and demands that I give her 50% of everything I have. I told her I wasn't giving her anything and walked away. Got back to my temporary home and filed for divorce.

The actual filing of papers was accomplished in January 2005. The trial was set for 4 April (my wedding anniversary was the 5th)! Prior to going to court the lawyer wanted to know what I expected to get from her. Nothing. I purchased 3/4 Rai of land for 60,000 Baht and built a 3 bedroom house for 400,000 Baht. I wanted nothing for her and I surely did not want to live in her village.

She was NOT notified of the court hearing. Not required according to lawyer because she was in the USA. Did have to publish a daily notice for 30 days in the newspaper???? I was living in Phayao at the time - no local newspaper!

Court day. Traveled the 100 KM to the court house at the appointed time! Waited 3 hours! Hummm! The lawyer shows up with a policeman as my interpreter - spoke darn good English. Finely get into the court, sworn-in, judge through interpreter asked many 'preprogrammed Q's and Answers', total elapsed time - approx 45 minutes. Judgement to be provided in a week - turned out to be 2 weeks. Over half of the Q's were answered by the interpreter. Spouse gets house and land. She already sold my car (October 2004). I want nothing except my freedom.

Lawyers gives me the judgement. I drive the 100 KM back to the Ampur. For 60 Baht I get the Final divorce degree. Ampur states that the former wife can get her copy when she returns to Thailand. 35 years down the drain. That's Life.

I scanned and emailed copies of all documents to my son. It was 2 weeks later I get and email stating that 'mom' got married !!

Hello everyone,

Fact is that your building plans without concrete beams will not be approved by the piyu-baan (head-village).

And, of course, all village pu yi baan's have advanced civil engineering degrees!

The biggest problem with most, if not all, construction here in Thailand is Cracks! Everything that I have read about masonry and concrete is to use only water that is 'drinkable'. How many farlang's drink the tap water over here? But Thai's do so I guess that qualifies the water as drinkable. What is my point? The water that is mixed with the cement is the basic problem. Of course, I am also aware that Thai construction workers, with their vast knowledge, use too much water at times, they never measure the amount of water, sand, cement. It is 'eyeballed' - Humm!

Cast of Characters: Aunt/Cousin - Thai Citizen; Wife (Thai?) NOT a Thai citizen (hill-tribe) therefore a foreigner; Son of Wife (age 8 years) Thai citizen; ME a foreigner.

I am well aware that as a ‘foreigner’ neither my wife nor I can OWN land, i.e. Register land in either name. BUT

Q. Can a ‘foreigner’ PURCHASE land in Thailand? If Yes -

Q. Are there land purchase contracts available and can the ‘foreigner’s’ name appear on the contract as purchaser?

Q. Are the Purchase Contracts ‘attached’ or ‘applied’ in some way to the Land registration (Chanote)?

Q. Can both names of ‘foreigner’s’ appear on a 30 + 30 Land Lease Agreement/Contract?

Scenario 1: Wife wants to use Aunt/Cousin (who lives permanently in Taiwan) as ‘Thai Nominee Owner’ for Land registration (and purchaser if the above Q’s are negative) with the wife(?) or Son (age 8)(?) of wife as the ‘Usfructuary Interest’ on the Chanote. Q. Any alternatives? Problems?

A 30 + 30 Lease Agreement and the Chanote to be provided by Aunt at time of land registration?

Scenario 2: Q. Can the ‘Son of wife (age 8) be a legal OWNER of Land and registered as such? How? Q. Can ‘Son of Wife’ (age 8) be a Purchaser of Land?

The above is probably a unique situation that may never occur again. I am sure there are many ‘foreigner couples’ that might be interested in purchase and lease of land and might like to no if there are solutions to Q’s above.

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

Hi,

My finace and I are looking a nice piece of farmland in Phayao. I have seen it for myself and it is near the highway and water supply source. It is now a Lumyai (Longan) fruit farm. We intend to purchase it for farming of another higher yield fruit (that js growing fast in popularity in Thailand and other countries. They can even be grown between the current lamyai trees.

It is about 200+ dtaa-raang-waa (ตารางวา) in size. How much would that cost typically in Phayao?

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Back in 1998 I purchased 1 rai for 60,000 baht. Today the same piece of land will sell for the same price. You have to get away from Phayao proper - about 6-7 KM to find reasonably priced land. For farming - lumyai - I would suggest no more than 40,000 - 60,000 per rai. Wells can be driven very inexpensively and provide all the water you need.

I fully agree with u tayto , hope we will find some new frinds and share some ideas no matter what. unfortunately im new to this forum but im not new to the area , so its feel nice that i just find it now for future shares of ideas .

Peter

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Can I take that from your nick, u are in Phayao or at least somewhat related to it?

I hope to be there as soon as possible, by this year, heavens willing. Thinking of going into farming too, with my wife-to-be. Any advice?

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Lived in Phayao for 5 years. Great place to live. Best restruants in the North - more than Chiangrai. There is good supermarket in Phayao. Shopping is like anywhere else in Thailand - good variety. DO NOT buy anything MADE in Thailand, however. Pay a little more to purchase products made elsewhere - Japan, US, Germany, etc. If you have ever done farming before, have at it. If not, do not get involved - you will loose your life savings!

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I haven't had a problem there for a long time either....I'm just wondering if Mr. Limbo is a Thai immigration official and that's why he's so intent on promoting their good qualities. There is no sinister intent here....just wondering....maybe he just likes immigration people....the uniforms?...

No Mr. Chownah,

I am talking about the people who are wearing the uniforms. And as a foreigner living in Chiang Rai I am very happy that the officers of the Immigration Office of Maesai give such a good professional service.

And reading the postings of Cdnvic, Thomas and Tayto I think I am not the only one.

I hope this thread contributes to a more positive attitude towards the officers.

They deserve it!

Limbo.

PS. To feed your suspicion: The new Super Intendent of Chiang Rai Police deserves all honor as well. He was the host of the big bikers meeting yesterday in Chiang Rai Town.

The 'Rotors' from Chiang Mai were here, the 'Rangers' of Chiang Rai, a lot of individual bikers from all over the province, the vintage Vespa-club, the younger kids with their 40/50 years old Honda's 50 and 70cc and many other bike-lovers.

I guess about 250 participants. It was a great show.

During the parade and in his speech the Super Intendent made an appeal to all youngsters to take an example from the big bikers: Wear your helmet always!

I think it is a very sympatic approach.

It is police and hospital staff who know best what misery is caused by not wearing helmets. They see the victims everyday.

If I would be a parent in Chiang Rai to-day and have kids driving motorbikes, I would send him a bunch of flowers.

To answer your question: No, I am not a police official either!

Oops! How do I reply to these posts. A newbee. Sorry

Odd-Even Plates. For curiosities sake, How many Thai families have or can afford more than one vehicle? I agree that the ‘wealthy’ probably have ‘many’ vehicles but the whole point, according, to the Thai government is to cut energy use. Vehicles in Thai are not built with the energy efficiency that is a ‘requirement’ in the USA, therefore, it is my opinion, that cars on the roads of Thailand are not very energy efficient.

For the people that state - Speed does not reduce consumption! Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 mph (100KPH). Each mpg driven over 60 will result in an additional 10 cents per gallon. To maintain a constant speed on the highway, cruise control is recommended. http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050405/DC...04042005-1.html

In highway driving, more than 50 percent of the energy required to move your car down the road goes to overcoming aerodynamic drag (pushing air out of the way). As you drive faster, aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance increase. As a result, at speeds above 55 mph (90KPH), fuel economy decreases rapidly. http://www.herelectricvehicle.com/pump.html. http://www.energy.iastate.edu/news/pr/pr-gasmileage.html

Turning off the TV at midnight! Where is the savings in accomplishing this? How many people in Thailand are watching TV after midnight? Did the ‘ministers’ go out and do a survey? It is ‘my opinion’ that very few of the 60 million plus people in Thailand are watching TV after midnight. So, if there is any savings, it would be minimal.

I also realize that enforcing a 90 KPH speed limit in Thailand would be ‘extremely difficult’ but not impossible. Time checks between police checkpoints would be one option. Very heavy fines assessed for violators.

My whole point is that there are better alternatives for energy reduction than those that have been suggested by the government ‘ministers.’ A little research by these ‘folks’ would provide the solution to ‘their’ problem with little impact on the lives of ‘their’ citizens.

It seems to me that there are a bunch of brainless people in Thailand!

Read with interest the past few days about the solutions to the fuel crisis. Among the solutions given were: shutting down all TV stations after mid-night; enforce the speed limits 90km per hour on general roads, 110kph on expressways and 120kph on motorways; and switch air conditioner’s off for an hour during lunch break.

The above are not solutions to the crisis. The following are better nation-wide solutions:

- Alternate day vehicle operation based on even-odd number license plate.

- Stop all inter-provincial and inter-city buses from departing stations every 30 minutes unless buses are more than 50% full or alternatively, on the hour.

- Expressway, motorway, and general road speed for all vehicles cannot exceed 90kph.

- Switching off air conditioner’s during lunch will require the use of MORE electricity to cool down the room after lunch. Setting back the air conditioner to 22-23C is a better alternative.

- All malls/shopping centers must close by 8-9 PM daily.

- All long-haul inter-provincial trucks can only travel after 8-9 PM.

- Turning off every other highway light throughout the kingdom.

These are just some of the alternatives. If there are 40 million vehicles traveling the roads nation-wide on a given day just think about the fuel savings if only 20 million vehicles are moving. Vehicles traveling at 110 and 120 kph is ridiculous and burns 2 times the fuel of a vehicle traveling at 90 kph, and a lot more safer if an accident should occur! Buses traveling the highways with no or very few passengers burn unnecessary fuel and increases the repair frequency. Most people leave work on a daily basis by 5 PM therefore any shopping (malls/shopping centers) that need to be accomplished can be done before 8-9 PM. Long haul trucks that travel during the day and have to stop-and-go because of traffic are just wasting fuel which comes out of the pockets of businesses and individuals. Turning off every other highway lights will safe substantially on fuel usage and will not hinder visibility at night.

Thailand cop accused of killing Britons blames "spy"

California. April 10, 2005. A Thai police sergeant accused of murdering two young British backpackers in 2004 pleaded his innocence and said, in remarks published today, that the killings were actually done by his informant.

"It wasn't me, it was my informant," Somchai Visetsing, 40, told the court, the Nation newspaper reported.

Somchai is standing trial for the September 10 shooting murders of Adam Lloyd, 25, and Vanessa Arscott, 23, near the Bridge on the River Kwai in western Kanchanburi province.

Thai police have said Somchai confessed to the shootings, but blamed Lloyd for starting a row.

Somchai testified yesterday that although he did not own a gun and had to borrow one from his colleagues, his drug investigations informant Ya, or Drug, had a .38 calibre revolver.

"Nobody knows Ya, not even my boss," the Nation quoted Somchai as saying.

"He's one of my spies, and I cover for him. I don't know his phone number, address or real name. But I've used him on 10 investigations."

The court also heard Somchai's confession was coerced because he was in a room full of police generals who told him it was in the "national interest" that he confess, the Nation reported.

A television interview in which Somchai apologised to Arscott's family was also coerced, the report said.

Somchai told the trial he met Lloyd and Arscott at a restaurant, and then offered Arscott a lift home.

But before they went far, Lloyd got out of the car and began arguing with Arscott, then returned to punch Somchai in the face, kicking him repeatedly until Somchai passed out, the paper reported.

Somchai said that when he awoke, a police colleague and Ya were there. Somchai said they wanted revenge, but he told them not to hurt the Britons, lent his car to Ya, and went to bed.

Ya called Somchai the next morning to say he'd "done" the backpackers, and for Somchai to be careful because he might be blamed, Somchai told the court.

Somchai then fled to Burma but was handed to Thai border officials by the Karen National Liberation Army after a month on the run.

He fled rather than be arrested because he put half the 2,000 people in Kanchanaburi prison and did not want to join them, the Nation reported.

The trial continues.

NOTE: This is my first posting and probably my last. I DO NOT understand how to use News Topics. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

but I haven't seen much field burning, or any forest fires lately, which are the main contributors to the visible form of air pollution around here, it think...

The pollutants from fires and field burnings usually put in their annual appearance around late-February.

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Yeah, when it seems that you're wearing brown-tinted glasses

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Soory folks but Chiangrai is not any better! The farmers are all burning off their previous years rice crop (fields). Then, you have the smoke and haze coming from Burma, China and Laos. Pretty soon we will all have to wear some type of 'gas' mask to survive - AND that's no joke. Can anyone imagine what 'chemicals' we are breathing in during this time of year?

Why did you choose where you reside vs the other city.  I agree both towns are pretty.  What made you choose one or the other.

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I can only give my views on Chiangrai as I have lived in the area for the past 6 years. However, I have been to Chiangmai on several occasions.

Chiangmai does have all the conviences - supermarkets, shopping malls, good restrauants, etc.

Chiangrai is pretty 'bleak'! Only one shopping mall - Big C - with decent food market BUT lacking in Western foods. There is nothing to do in Chiangrai, NOTHING. Air pollution is also a problem from December thru April/May. The weather is somewhat cooler during November thru February BUT the polluted air will get to you!

Personally, having lived in Phayao province for 4 years I find this province a much better place to live BUT - NOTHING TO DO. A small shopping mall, similar to Big C is available but lacking in Western products. For restraunts this place cannot be beat.

Housing in both areas is hard to find. You have to drive every soi until, hopefully, you find a sign that says for rent. There is no other way to find a place to rent. There are many shabby places around that are for rent but I would not put an 'animal' in these places.

Hope this helps.

I need .....

Best regards to all

Harmonica

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//Edit by RDN: Hey chiangrai57020. You appear to be having problems making a post.

After hitting the "Reply" button, you can enter your text at the bottom of the box labelled "Enter your post". Then hit the "Add Reply" button.

The following may be of use and then again it may not. Regarding ADSL - in my personnal oppinion - It Is The Best way to go! I live 40 KM north of Chiangrai and have a TT&T line. When it was first installed in August 2004 I had nothing but problems. A lot of them were my own doing - I did not understand how to get it to work! Now, I have no problems whatsoever. I am up and running 24 hours a day and the 'speed' is great. I have a friend who installed an IPSTAR internet system and, as someone mentioned, everytime there is any rain - Not even in the local area - he looses his signal. With TT&T there is NO loss of signal. It may take awhile for TT&T personnel (several visits) to clear up the line for ADSL but it is worth the effort - just be patient.

By the way the cost - ADSL line with LOXINFO service costs me 1,605 baht per month. You also have to have an ADSL ROUTER - DO NOT install the ADSL Modem. For some reason the modems are not very good.

Well, that's my 2 cents worth. Good luck.