ScottMallon

" I was in a coma and in the hospital for a month, couldn't walk for almost a year, and somehow I managed not to overstay. So I don't buy it."

Whilst I would think not overstaying would be the least of your worries, you managed to not overstay, good on you.

How about showing some compassion for people that didn't manage to not overstay and were in a similar situation as you ?

Bottom line here, the punishment does not fit the crime, certainly not if minor overstays if apprehended are being treated as some believe they will.

Maybe you could use your apparent connections with imiigration and ask them about the intend of their message as there seems to be some confusion.

How about showing some compassion for people that didn't manage to not overstay and were in a similar situation as you ?

Because very few are in this sort of situation. Also, I'm not the sort of person to get overly emotional or attached because of someone else's screw-up.

I understand things happen, of course. But being overstayed a couple of months doesn't just happen. A day or two seems forgivable to me, a month or a year does not. Of course, this is only my opinion which means nothing to the overall picture.

Bottom line here, the punishment does not fit the crime, certainly not if minor overstays if apprehended are being treated as some believe they will.

What you or I think about the punishment fitting the crime makes absolutely no difference. It is what it is. If you get caught with a couple of tablets of speed in Iraq they might chop your head off. Punishment doesn't fit the crime but if you carried those tablets, it's your responsibility to know what you're getting into.

Maybe you could use your apparent connections with immigration and ask them about the intend of their message as there seems to be some confusion.

The intent of their message is clear—DO NOT OVERSTAY. How much clearer do you need it to be? How confusing is this? If you turn yourself in, the punishment is less than if someone drags you in.

Of course I was overstayed.

Why else would I be reading this thread and hiding behind a silly face like The Duderino?

I'm going to collect my passport this afternoon and hopefully there will be a visa for me and an uneventful return to my home of 10 years.

What is your interest in this subject then anyway?

No idea why you post or why you use the avatar you use. Completely unimportant in my book.

My only interest in the subject of overstaying was providing the original information immigration offered. I'm not overstayed, and other than the one off overstay of one day when I was flying out, I've never been overstayed.

It seems appropriate you didn't like Bangkoklasse's post since you're overstayed. Those that aren't overstayed or who don't overstay have no problem with the revised overstay policy.

I don't get the people who like to wait until the last minute to go out !! They like to go ten minutes before the blacklisting starts !! Why not go as soon as possible and quickly make their visa status straight, before it's too late

Yea, well, you know, that's just like your opinion man.

Yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg

Who cares whether you get it?

It's my opinion too and I don't get it either. Why should other foreigners on this forum or elsewhere waste their time on people who choose not to follow the rules? Regardless of the penalties, the rule is DON'T OVERSTAY. So if someone overstays for a year, and then they want help, why didn't they think of this before overstaying?

I have to ask, are you overstayed MrFarang?

Before George put this thread up, I did say that it would take 60 days to approve by the Ministry Of Interior. This is what I was told by the Superintendent of Div. 1. last week.

What I find even more humorous than the inability to read is the ability of some to make up their own interpretation of the law or when told exactly what is meant, they choose to ignore what is said because it might mean they can no longer stay in Thailand.

Khun Scott,

Thanks for your valuable reporting.

The title headline: Thailand Immigration confirms new overstay rules are now official

Perhaps it should have read: Thailand Immigration officially confirms overstay rules are coming

You have a pal in uniform at the IO and like to help explain the rules, perhaps you might start a new thread that portrays the pending changes correctly.

Let's work together to help the farang who overstayed (whether unfortunate or misguided or foolish or selfish).

Some compassion please.

I hate to think that some honest and decent fellows might miss the opportunity to get their visa status straight because they read somewhere that is is too late.

Likewise, I urge recent overstayers to report their successful visa run and return to Thailand.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that no matter what the penalty, it's best to get an overstay sorted now as opposed to later.

Interesting to say the least.

How does that effect 90 day non immigrant single entry O visa? a 30 day extension instead the current 7? Info appreciated as mine is due to run out September 30! months extension would be appreciated. I have family (Daughter) in Thailand, unmarried and obtained non o visa to visit my daughter. Currently in the process of legitimising the fatherhood of my daughter and may need the extra month before going for the full year extension of stay.

The change from 7 to 30 is only for visa exemption extensions only. It has nothing to do with non-imm O's.

Well herein lies the problem with Thailand. Firstly if your passport is stolen and you have reported it and applied immediately and in due time for a new one why deport the victim? If it is an issue with Thai law then why are the Embassies not helping their citizens avoid this by issuing temporary documents to allow you to do whatever necessary as if you had a passport until a new one can be issued? Lastly no one ever seems to really know what is going on here nor what the law really means because the interpretation is at the whim of the judge there being no real principle of precedent. It is a mess

I lost my passport, left it in a taxi, twelve years ago. I immediately went to the US Embassy and if memory serves me correctly, I had to go to immigration as soon as received my new passport. They sorted it out.

For many years, every single time I went up to pass through immigration entering Thailand, a supervisor had to be called over.

"Lost passport?" they would ask.

"Yes."

"Okay."

Two seconds later, I was through.

All we need now is longer visa's for those married to thai citizens and to stop the 90 reporting, then we will be able to see that things are improving for the better.

Renewing a visa every year is fine, pretty standard around the world I would think. It's one day out of your life.

In my home country the tempirary residential permit (not visa) is renewed every year for the first five years. After that a permanent residential permit is granted which needs no more renewals. For the renewal the immigration departments sends you a notice to send in your current foreigner ID card. No need to show up personally, nor with spouse or other documents.

The 90 day reporting is quite annoying but, again, it only takes about 10 minutes. Pop into Immigration, say Hello, sign a bit of paper and away you go.

No hassle at all. Better than all the border hops we used to have to do.

To note that the 90 say reporting can also be done by post (they recommend registered letter). I understand that post can vanish and rectifying the situation may be stressful.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I send mine EMS every time. Never had a problem. Costs next to nothing.

Let's not speculate and wait for official announcements / facts. This is just unwanted scaremongering. Of course if your friend has facts, please share?

it is not scaremongering.

ed visa is the next obvious loophole because many are not even showing up for classes.

it is like buying a visa.

From what I was told in my conversation with immigration officials, YES, the loophole will be tightened in the near future.

Okay....I would like to see them do this because I think even with the mail-in,

the 90-day report causes some people grief. Why I don't know, but it does.

I would like to know too what big grief they get for this 90-report?

- it's rather easy

- you don't have to do it yourself

- you can often do it by mail

...

Maybe griefs from people who live far for an Immigration Office who refuse report by mail ?

You might be surprised at how many people, especially those fairly new to Thailand, are a bit freaked out by it. I get messages from people all the time asking about it, worrying about it, telling me why they don't want to mail anything in, or who feel like they already have their visa so they don't know why they have to do anything else. I don't get it, but it happens.

I've been mailing mine is from when they first started allowing it and used to go to Suan Plu to do it. I just get a little postal place in the mall to do everything for me and it costs like 70 baht.

OK -- Scott. I go to a small enough Immigration Office where the IMM folks actually remember you and many times have a chance to talk; one day I'm guessing that may come in handy.

I'm guessing you're right.

So the #2 official is saying that should, such a change occur it is in conformance with the explicit text of the Act as 'a letter'. People come on here and mention all sorts of changes they would like to see without having the slightest idea what is law, what ministerial regulation, and what is in the purview of a Police Order.

I don't have the slightest idea whether this will occur pr not -- I make a point of visiting the local IMM office for 90 day report.

Like I said, believe what you want. If they want it done, it'll get done.

I'm not just "mentioning it." It was said. You don't want to believe it, then don't. My own way of looking at what I'm told by those in charge is to take them at their word. Especially now.

I mail my report in and would jump on doing it online.

What you said above is that they are considering allowing an online submission of the 90 day report and I agreed that may occur because someone will decide that the online submission conforms with the 'send a letter' in Section 37-5 of the Immigration Act and therefore requires no change in the Immigration Act.

Okay....I would like to see them do this because I think even with the mail-in, the 90-day report causes some people grief. Why I don't know, but it does.

So the #2 official is saying that should, such a change occur it is in conformance with the explicit text of the Act as 'a letter'. People come on here and mention all sorts of changes they would like to see without having the slightest idea what is law, what ministerial regulation, and what is in the purview of a Police Order.

I don't have the slightest idea whether this will occur pr not -- I make a point of visiting the local IMM office for 90 day report.

You decipher what was said however you choose. Like I said, believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. If they want it done, it'll get done.

I'm not just "mentioning it." It was said. My own way of looking at what I'm told by those in charge is to take them at their word. Especially now.

I mail my report in and would jump on doing it online.

I think they should consider a 90-day visa free stay similar to other countries. It would make life much easier for many tourists. And they should also scrap the 90-day reporting or allow people to do the report online. It seems to be wasting the time of both visa holders and immigration staff.

The possibility of having the 90-day report done online is something immigration is considering.

I asked if there was any chance of getting any of the non-immigration visas done online and the answer was, "No, but 90-day report, maybe."

Regarding the 90 day report required in Section 37 of The Immigration Act of Thailand (2522) it also says in paragraph 5.:

In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a

letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the

Director General

So someone would have to make the interpretation and determination that an online email would equal a letter.

Believe what you want.

What I was told by the #2 official is that immigration is considering making it possible to file the 90-day report online. If they did this, they could easily modify the current 90-day regulation. Considering what I was told and my own instincts, if I were to make a wager, I would bet that it will happen at some point.

I think they should consider a 90-day visa free stay similar to other countries. It would make life much easier for many tourists. And they should also scrap the 90-day reporting or allow people to do the report online. It seems to be wasting the time of both visa holders and immigration staff.

The possibility of having the 90-day report done online is something immigration is considering.

I asked if there was any chance of getting any of the non-immigration visas done online and the answer was, "No, but 90-day report, maybe."

To try & help clarify, I think there are two things WRT overstay to consider. The first is arriving travelers showing up at immigration seeking the usual permission to enter, either with a tourist visa in hand, or, if eligible, expecting a 30d visa exempt stamp, and an overstay history. Various things now factor in to the IO's discretion to let you enter: things like how many out & ins and back-to-back "visa runs" he sees in your passport, whether or not the pattern of entries & exits suggest to him that you're actually living/working in Thailand, etc.. It's at this point that he notices past overstays. There's no clear formula for any of this, but the overstays, esp. if they strengthen his suspicion that you're "not a tourist", and might be living or working in Thailand, could be a problem... It's all the "discretion" thing, and you're not going to find a clear written policy anywhere that says you can't enter if you've ever overstayed; nevertheless, unless you can read minds, you can't know for sure these days how an IO is going to handle your past overstay(s) if & when he sees them in your passport on arrival. 'Certainly not a good thing, but probably not fatal unless long & frequent, or as a matter of drawing an unhappy IO on a bad day who takes a dislike to you...

The SECOND thing to consider about overstays is this recently announced new policy that bans overstayers for periods of time, depending on the length of their overstay. I don't think this new "schedule" of banned re-entry has gone into effect yet, but my understanding was that it was something expected in the very near future (i.e., BEFORE the infamous 12AUG airport D-day). The advice in connection with this banning policy has been to get that squared away IMMEDIATELY, BEFORE the policy goes into effect. Leave the country, paying your overstay fine in the process, and terminating your overstay status. If you wait, and the ban schedule goes into effect, and you THEN depart, then you'll be banned from re-entering Thailand for some number of years depending on the length of your overstay. That pretty much makes waiting a bad idea.

So, there are these two related but different overstay issues. If you're talking about this "ban schedule", then your best course of action is to leave Thailand immediately, thus settling up (i.e., "clearing") your overstay status in the process before the banned returns go into effect. If, OTOH, you're concerned about what your "history" of overstays will do to you on future arrivals, well, there's no real remedy or guarantee I don't think, although some will suggest you get a new passport (others will say the thais have it recorded electronically and a new passport really won't erase their knowledge of them).

That's how I see it.

Agreed.

One thing...2-3 days ago the Commissioner General of Immigration submitted new overstay paperwork to the Ministry of the Interior. The one change is there is no more lifetime ban. The official announcement of these guidelines are to be announced in approximately 60 days.

Did they mention anything about ED visas? Will they start testing people at Thai language schools and other types of education that we can legally apply for?

How anybody here can possibly know ?

They did mention the ED visa and I made it a point to discuss it. This is the next loophole they're going to tighten.

"The new commissioner has very concrete policies on the misuse of ED visa and also those who use medical reasons such as vertigo and high blood pressure to stay in Thailand."

There has already been testing but this is a subject I am going to get in deeper with them in the next few days.

I made mention of a friend living in Chiang Mai. He is 40, has enough money socked away to support himself here (but not enough for an elite card), and is on a multiple entry tourist visa. His tourist visa is going to expire and while they did say that people on tourist visas are not who they are after, my friend is uncomfortable trying to get another multiple entry and instead is going to opt for an ED Visa. The second in command of Immigration said, "This is not how we intended the ED visa to be used. Better he goes to Vientianne and tries to get another tourist visa." They were very clear about ED visas being used by "real" students and not people who simply use them to stay in the country. For now though, they're going to concentrate on those who continually enter with no visas.

I for one can't retire here for another 4 years(65). I usually come on Triples I don't work here.I stay at the GF's Apt.and travel around Thailand as much as feasible while trying to pinpoint my ideal retirement spot. I'm from the states so I come in the winter months September-May .I go back for 4 months and repeat,I'm just under the 180 per calender year.I'm confident that the Thai Immigration is mainly out for the visa exempt violators and illegal workers .I also think they will be implementing more requirements(proof of finaces and Itinerary) for long stay tourists visa's .My feelings about.this Elite Visa is not a option(500k) for me and most people I suppose if they dropped it down to 250K it would be reasonable

I like your post on finality .

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

I can see a problem of fairness (and revenue) making it clearer and easier for people to stay longer than 180 days, yet not classify them as residents and tax the money they bring in to the country.

If you're a "tourist" by the tax definition, staying less than 180 days, all you're taxed on is the money you've made in Thailand, which of course, is zero- since you can't work as a genuine tourist. So it seems that there is a problem defining anyone staying over 180 days a year as a tourist, even if they are non-working.

(For the over 50 retirement crowd, pension benefits earned in previous years don't seem to fit into the 8 classifications of taxable income listed below- whew. And for the 28/28 oilfield people, just a few of their days off spent outside Thailand will keep them in the non-resident category.)

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

2.TAX BASE

2.1 Assessable Income

Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

-income from personal services rendered to employers;

-income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;

-income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;

-income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;

-income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;

-income from liberal professions;

-income from construction and other contracts of work;

-income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

Source:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

You are correct—they are not out to stop people with tourist visas, they're out to stop those abusing the visa exemptions. If and when their standards actually become standards the checkpoints adhere to, there shouldn't be dozens holding tourist visas turned away at the border. That would be a major step in the right direction if this actually happens. If you have an outbound ticket (like it or not), cash, proof of accommodation, and an itinerary you should be fine. This is what Immigration said to me.

If anyone has a problem with this, dunno what to tell you.

One thing I find strange is no one seems to care about the visa exemption extension being lengthened from 7 to 30 days. I guess everyone wants to live here but no one wants to come for 60 days.

This is the first of several videos concerning some of Thai Immigration's recent changes:

Mario is correct in that there will not be a ban on those who overstay less than 90 days.

This part is in contradiction with what Mario2008 posted just after your message, and that seems to be a part transcription of the scanned document we now have to sign at Immigration: "apprehended" + "overstay less than 1 year" => "ban 5 years". There is a long discussion already in another topic about this unclear point.

Okay, understood. If you turn yourself in and overstay less than 90 days, you get 1 year. But I will have the most recent information posted shortly. I was given this yesterday afternoon and I believe it will be quite clear.

If you clear the overstay of less than 90 days voluntarily you will not get banned. Get caught and it will be 5 years.

Excuse me, I meant MORE than 90 days gets you 1 year. Less than 90 is no penalty. If you are apprehended and overstay anything less than a year, it's 5 years.