Jotham79

Here is one of our water sources or around 20% of our land ...the first two pics was in October last year and the last two was March 2016. we have planted some of palm trees.

Here are some thoughts about your ponds:

There is no such thing as a perfect pond. By this I mean that a pond designed for fish farming will not be the best to hold irrigation water. In your case I would aim for irrigation and take fish as you can.

1. I would deepen both ponds (4 meters) especially the small one. Possibly dig a small area 1.5 meters deeper to facilitate seining. I would pump the large pond dry and keep water in the front one.
2. Replace any trees that don’t yield some fruit or food. I really like Manila Tamarind. Make sure your trees are set back at least 1.5 meters with 2 meters being better. It is difficult to work a seine with trees too close and trees too close can fall in.
3. As soon as you get a little water in the large pond in the rainy season (hopefully in July), I would stock with 2000 to 3000 pla tapian. Last year I got them at a government hatchery for 200 baht per thousand. These fish would need no care and would be of a sellable size in 4 months. You could toss in leafy veggies (outside of cabbages….) they love Manilla Tamarind and the bugs that fall off the branches. I would not be afraid to add an extra 1000 fry to feed the pla chon that are most likely in there. I would keep box traps or net traps in there for the pla chon and pla duk. Small pond would work for pla duk, pla nin, and frogs. Ducks or geese would be happy in either one.

Here are some photos of what I am talking about.

These are the fish nets

a cricket trap to feed you, or the fish, or the chickens, or the ducks.... You need a light at the top and water at the bottom. Would work on Meng Mow too.

Manila Tamarind fruiting and on pond bank.

Here are the Putsa and quail I mentioned earlier

Here are the frogs

I will agree that there are a lot of ways to lose money farming, but it is certainly not impossible to make money. There has been a lot of good advice and some not so good. I have lost more than my share of money farming in Thailand and know why it happened. I think you have a very interesting project. I have done everything over the last 20 years here on your list except grapes, lychee, rambutan, mangosteen, mulberry, roselle, pigs, and earth worms, but have done prawns, frogs, quail and a few other crops and fruits (and have forgot some). With enough work almost everything you are doing can be profitable. Here are some thoughts I have in no particular order and forgive me if you are doing them already:

1. Consider adding a small rice mill. Around here the operator gets the rice polishings and the rice hulls. This gives you a supplemental income in the form of the rice polishings that can be sold or feed to your animals. And the rice hulls could be composted to return organic materials to your soil.
2. I will predict that you will have problems with grapes, durian.
3. I would reduce or eliminate Mangosteen, rambutan, lychee, ma fie, but not til you see if they are good producers. See my next point.
4. Learn how to air layer and graft and make your own trees to sell. Double grafting is even better and more profitable. Thing about every tree you bought. Your work, only a little space and a good return. Seed papaya, and seed other shrubs and clone bamboo and bananas.
5. Add a Thai Grapefruit tree to clone from.
6. Add manila tamarind. They will do especially well around your ponds. Fish love fruit that falls and so do chickens and ducks that free range. You have to make sure you get a good strain so look at the fruit on the parent stock
7. Add1-2 Kaffir lime or more.
8. Basil will grow right up alongside a building. Grow extra to feed your livestock. Look at other herbs.
9. Add Putsa Apple.
10. Add as many water collection jars as is practical to every building.
11. Consider some concrete rings to raise catfish but I would stick with Big Oui (I have never had pla duck Russia grow well). There is also a strain of climbing perch that is promising and I am trying to get a small sample to try out. I would also consider one crop of pla duk a year in the smaller pond nearer you house. Drain it to fill the other
12. I would look for the best strain of tilapia you can find and raise them in nets. Throw some Pla Sawai in the ponds if you like to eat them, but not too many. I love hamook.
13. Geese are hard to make money on, but a couple out on your ponds will let you know if you have visitors. If you are well respected in the village, you will have less loss. A mean dog won’t hurt either.
14. Consider getting a small plot and opening a market. Put in a covered structure and run power and build some stalls. Let everyone use it for free for a while and use it yourself. It can be as simple or fancy as you think will work.
15. I would probably opt to pass on Yasohotin. It will cost you about 100 baht per trip and rental on a stall. You are better off building a quality operation and selling as much as you can in the local market which will get more locals to know about your farm and lead to walk in customers. A consistent presence will be rewarded.
16. Look at making your own poultry feed. Consider dropping chickens except for your own use. I am working on a layer/ gai ban cross that is a good layer of small to medium eggs, and meats out more like a gai ban. Put the hens with gai ban roosters and you can make money selling for meat. I would go with Pekin ducks and may be start with a few on your ponds. If you must have laying chickens buy good POL pullets, then cage/coop raise them. Free ranging or just letting them wander around a yard is a money loser.
17. Consider quail. I can give you a lot of info on this. Per square meter you will make more than chicken or ducks.
18. Consider crickets. It was a fad years ago and I thought it died out, but two local feed stores in Petchabun are selling cricket feed bulk. I haven’t done it, but it would be something to look at.
19. The Santol makes a good border for a field or road. Consider drip tape.
20. Put Papaya around your young fruit trees to shade them some while they are young. Some folks use bananas
21. Prik Keenu will grow well in the shade of bananas and papayas.
22. Forget crops for farang like zucchini, strawberries, bell peppers, head lettuce ect…. At least in the beginning .
23. Learn about drip tape (not the same as the hose type irrigation) and plastic mulch. It is used on melons and other crops. You will use a lot less water.
24. You tube and Facebook can be your friend. You are a lot more likely to find people doing exactly the same crop(s) as you and over time will help you advertise.
25. Going organic can be the right thing to do, but most of your local buyers will not pay a premium. Initially it is important to compete on a fair footing.
26. We have 2 rose apple trees and the wife planted a bunch of chillis around one and it had considerably few pests. I hear that chrysanthemums do the same.
27. A light over your pond may help a few pest to become fish food and may discourage visitors.
28. Keeping records will be a valuable exercise over time. Note weekly market prices for crops you are thinking about and when the high prices tend to occur….New Years, Songkran, Chinese New Years, when schools are open or closed. Obviously high prices can mean it is the wrong time a year or it could mean too much water is needed. Once you are running keep detailed costs and income records. When possible track a particular crop just to see what is happening.

I have forgotten at least this much and will let you know if anything comes to me.

Just to be clear, I am not recommending you do all or any particular activities, you will have to set your goals andlimits. I think you are someone who likes to learn and this will be a fun process. Something that works in one place may not work for you and vice versa. You do not need to explain yourself to naysayers. It is easy to say something can’t happen and impossible to prove it. Search for people that have similar experience that are willing to share and have fun.

Chok Dee

Pardon me but nowhere in this post does it say I Made a Killing Farming in thailand.

Never take advice from a fat man on how to lose weight.

Nowhere in this thread does it say anything about making a killing farming. I have never claimed to make a killing in faming, but here is what I will claim:

I have farmed longer than you in Thailand.

I have more land than you.

I have lost more money farming different crops and livestock than you (meaning I know a lot more than you about what doesn't work and why)

I have made more money than you farming.

Never listen to a man who doesn't farm about farming

I will agree that there are a lot of ways to lose money farming, but it is certainly not impossible to make money. There has been a lot of good advice and some not so good. I have lost more than my share of money farming in Thailand and know why it happened. I think you have a very interesting project. I have done everything over the last 20 years here on your list except grapes, lychee, rambutan, mangosteen, mulberry, roselle, pigs, and earth worms, but have done prawns, frogs, quail and a few other crops and fruits (and have forgot some). With enough work almost everything you are doing can be profitable. Here are some thoughts I have in no particular order and forgive me if you are doing them already:

1. Consider adding a small rice mill. Around here the operator gets the rice polishings and the rice hulls. This gives you a supplemental income in the form of the rice polishings that can be sold or feed to your animals. And the rice hulls could be composted to return organic materials to your soil.
2. I will predict that you will have problems with grapes, durian.
3. I would reduce or eliminate Mangosteen, rambutan, lychee, ma fie, but not til you see if they are good producers. See my next point.
4. Learn how to air layer and graft and make your own trees to sell. Double grafting is even better and more profitable. Thing about every tree you bought. Your work, only a little space and a good return. Seed papaya, and seed other shrubs and clone bamboo and bananas.
5. Add a Thai Grapefruit tree to clone from.
6. Add manila tamarind. They will do especially well around your ponds. Fish love fruit that falls and so do chickens and ducks that free range. You have to make sure you get a good strain so look at the fruit on the parent stock
7. Add1-2 Kaffir lime or more.
8. Basil will grow right up alongside a building. Grow extra to feed your livestock. Look at other herbs.
9. Add Putsa Apple.
10. Add as many water collection jars as is practical to every building.
11. Consider some concrete rings to raise catfish but I would stick with Big Oui (I have never had pla duck Russia grow well). There is also a strain of climbing perch that is promising and I am trying to get a small sample to try out. I would also consider one crop of pla duk a year in the smaller pond nearer you house. Drain it to fill the other
12. I would look for the best strain of tilapia you can find and raise them in nets. Throw some Pla Sawai in the ponds if you like to eat them, but not too many. I love hamook.
13. Geese are hard to make money on, but a couple out on your ponds will let you know if you have visitors. If you are well respected in the village, you will have less loss. A mean dog won’t hurt either.
14. Consider getting a small plot and opening a market. Put in a covered structure and run power and build some stalls. Let everyone use it for free for a while and use it yourself. It can be as simple or fancy as you think will work.
15. I would probably opt to pass on Yasohotin. It will cost you about 100 baht per trip and rental on a stall. You are better off building a quality operation and selling as much as you can in the local market which will get more locals to know about your farm and lead to walk in customers. A consistent presence will be rewarded.
16. Look at making your own poultry feed. Consider dropping chickens except for your own use. I am working on a layer/ gai ban cross that is a good layer of small to medium eggs, and meats out more like a gai ban. Put the hens with gai ban roosters and you can make money selling for meat. I would go with Pekin ducks and may be start with a few on your ponds. If you must have laying chickens buy good POL pullets, then cage/coop raise them. Free ranging or just letting them wander around a yard is a money loser.
17. Consider quail. I can give you a lot of info on this. Per square meter you will make more than chicken or ducks.
18. Consider crickets. It was a fad years ago and I thought it died out, but two local feed stores in Petchabun are selling cricket feed bulk. I haven’t done it, but it would be something to look at.
19. The Santol makes a good border for a field or road. Consider drip tape.
20. Put Papaya around your young fruit trees to shade them some while they are young. Some folks use bananas
21. Prik Keenu will grow well in the shade of bananas and papayas.
22. Forget crops for farang like zucchini, strawberries, bell peppers, head lettuce ect…. At least in the beginning .
23. Learn about drip tape (not the same as the hose type irrigation) and plastic mulch. It is used on melons and other crops. You will use a lot less water.
24. You tube and Facebook can be your friend. You are a lot more likely to find people doing exactly the same crop(s) as you and over time will help you advertise.
25. Going organic can be the right thing to do, but most of your local buyers will not pay a premium. Initially it is important to compete on a fair footing.
26. We have 2 rose apple trees and the wife planted a bunch of chillis around one and it had considerably few pests. I hear that chrysanthemums do the same.
27. A light over your pond may help a few pest to become fish food and may discourage visitors.
28. Keeping records will be a valuable exercise over time. Note weekly market prices for crops you are thinking about and when the high prices tend to occur….New Years, Songkran, Chinese New Years, when schools are open or closed. Obviously high prices can mean it is the wrong time a year or it could mean too much water is needed. Once you are running keep detailed costs and income records. When possible track a particular crop just to see what is happening.

I have forgotten at least this much and will let you know if anything comes to me.

Just to be clear, I am not recommending you do all or any particular activities, you will have to set your goals andlimits. I think you are someone who likes to learn and this will be a fun process. Something that works in one place may not work for you and vice versa. You do not need to explain yourself to naysayers. It is easy to say something can’t happen and impossible to prove it. Search for people that have similar experience that are willing to share and have fun.

Chok Dee