Jotham79

DE will take care of it. Yours went out yesterday.

OK, What you are probably getting are corn screenings available almost everywhere they buy and sell corn wholesale. Here is a link:

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/236/58572/Feeding_Corn_Screenings_to_Cattle.pdf

I have seen several other places that the CP content is lower at about 7-8%. I use 7 % in my calculations because I doubt the quality here is as good. The price here is 5 baht a kg if you go to the mill and pick it up. 2 baht a kg is amazing.

Somewhere near your farm there will be a dairy coop where the dairy farmers can go to sell their milk. That's where I get soybean meal that is 44% protein in 70 kg bags for 1540 baht. I was there today and they had cassava chips for 400+ baht (I couldn't get a good price) a bag (30 kg?) and they had molasses in 20 liter jugs, but I don't know the price.

Could you give me the contact info of the place where you get your hominy meal? I am getting corn sweepings from a place near here (Petchabun) and it costs 5 baht a kg and probably only has about 7% protein.

thanks

5

Hi,

On a couple of other threads I mentioned DE and have had some questions from some readers. Basically, DE is a fine powder that is mostly silica. The tiny particles are sharp and kill many parasites and coccidiosis. I use it on poultry, but it can be used on other animals. It is also used in gardening to control parasites. I use it a couple of ways. The first is in the feed. I will usually mix a large tablespoon in about 5 kg of feed. Often I will feed this in a wet mash. I also dust the coop floors, nests, and roosts to control lice. I treat my whole flock about every 90 days and will also treat a coop if I am moving birds around. There is something called food grade and a general grade. I heard the food grade is white and the general grade was grey. The DE I got was yellow and I was told it was ok for animals. If it wasn't, I think I would have seen some problems by now. I have just asked for a friend to get me some more so if anyone wants to get some send me a PM, I should have it in about a week. You can find vids on U-tube that tell a lot more about it.

I make my own feed and need to find a source for calcium that is cheaper than what I have now. I currently get 1 kg bags for 45 baht which costs about 2 baht a kg for my layer feed. Since the bird flu a while back the feed stores in Petchabun can't well chicks or ducklings. So there are few small farms around and they just don't carry calcium in 10-20 kg bags. If anyone know how I could get some, please let me know.

Cheers

I've only done a little research, but have been unable to find any hard studies on Health benefits of oregano or basil. Several articles said something like "Scientists found" without citing the actual study. This doesn't mean that it isn't effective. Most of what I found was on oregano oil. I decided to check out basil and found that the references equally as week, but when you look at the breakdown of healthy contents that basil seems to have several times more of many of the contents. I don't know ho hard it is to grow oregano and render it into oil, but I know basil will grow just about anywhere with little care. I'm already doing the basil so will probably just stick with that. I would love to know if anyone finds any real studies.

One thing that everyone needs to understand is that antibiotics are not effective against a virus, worms, or coccidiosis. IMHO most times you have a sick bird it will be because of a virus. Now you can have a virus with a bacterial infection, but if your birds are in good shape it will be rare. I don't vaccine now (did in the past) as there are simply too many bugs out there and some vaccines need boosters. My procedure for chickens is to hatch the chicks and keep them on wire for 1 month and move them to the floor for 1 month and then send them to free range on the farm. At 4 months I take the surplus males to fatten for a week and at 5 months select the layers. If your birds are well nourished, reasonably free of parasites, and are not stressed they have a good chance of making it through. If you really feel the need to use antibiotics, you should spend some time researching their use on poultry as well as biosecurity and how to autopsy a bird to determine what is really happening. I am running my small operation for profit and have found that culling the odd bird along with some other practices works out for me financially.

As I have said on other posts I would use antibiotics under the right conditions and do use the Betagro B12 plus erythromycin the first 2 days after the hatch, but would be happy to find a multivit that didn't have the e'mycin. At the end of the day you have to do what you think is best.

I am going to start research on Oregano and will post back if I find anything promising.

In case you would like to stay away from chemicals, oregano will do wonders; we use it here and it works.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/science/chicken-farms-try-oregano-as-antibiotic-substitute.html?referrer=

The last line of the article says “You can’t just replace antibiotics with oregano oil and expect it to work,” Mr. Sechler said. I am a real skeptic, but I am also naturally curious so could you give some details as to how you use it and where you get it? I don't use antibiotics, but would under the right conditions. I do give my quail basil occasionally, but that is because they like it.

Hi JVS,

There is a bug going around where chickens (mainly young ones) are getting infected sinuses and eyes. If it moves to their eyes I cull the bird. Or if they just get so lethargic I can walk up to them and pick them up I cull them. Half of mine are in runs and half have the run of my farm. I have no problems with the adult chickens in my runs. For coccidiosis I treat the birds every 90 days with DE (diatomaceous earth) in their feed and sprinkle it around my coops and in their nests. I don't use antibiotics now, but I have been lucky. I go overboard and scrub the water jars everyday, make sure they are well fed (I mix most of my own feed) and that they get fresh fruit and greens.

What breeds do you have and where are you?

PJ If the B12 you use is in a small green foil pack and is made by Betagro, I thought it had some erythromycin in it.

hi jotham,

sorry late reply been busy,

this is the b12 we use, i think its the one you mean,

Sorry for the late reply, but wanted to check my facts. Yes, the package you showed has Erythromycin in it. I do use it for the first water my chicks get out of the incubator, but I would prefer it not to have the antibiotic.

As for charcoal I know it is used as an antiflatuance medicine in people so I will do a little research. In small amounts it wouldn't hurt.

I am trying to get some DE from a friend of a friend. If I score and anyone wants some send me a pm.

Thank you guys,most of our birds run free every day and the older birds are no problem.We let the young ones out at a young age so they can start building up resistance and the cocidiosis is not what kills them.

I guess it is the bug that attacks the eyes.I have been giving amoxcoli for that but with mixed results.

Jotham 79 where do you get the DE?

We keep everything clean and use bleach to disinfect feeders and waterers.It is very frustrating to lose birds this way and it is not easy to find new ones.

Because of the eye infection we have some birds with one eye now and i hope to be able to find something to prevent this.

I have culled a few birds but a cure would be better of course.

We have Dutch booted bantams,Serama's Brahma's, Bantam Silkies,Phoenix ,Thai Bantams,Chabo's White leghorn ,Cochin bantam,Polisch and some laying hens.

hope to get a few more breeds in the future,do you have anything to trade?

Jake i have some great racing pigeons ,also fancy tales,croppers,Lahore and old dutch capucijn.

I got the DE from a friend years ago and had to take several kg. I heard it was available but only in large quantities. I don't know how much I have left and have been thinking about trying to get some more.

I wouldn't use beach very often.

Coccidiosis usually doesn't kill on its own, but causes the bird to be less able to fight off an infection. This eye/nose infection going around is something I haven't seen in 20 years and hope not to see it again. Culling isn't a cure it is a management practice, because anything you "cure" is probably just going to end up a carrier. It is a difficult practice to follow. You have to set a limit on how sick a bird can be and then you cull. Out of my last 150 chicks, I have only had to cull 4-5 and they were all eye infections. I have been lucky and haven't had to cull an adult chicken in over a year. I have had a couple of quail that were either ill or injured and my BIL is very happy to receive the culls.

I have Rhode Island Red, Sam Saipan (a black feathered heavy breed, Leghorn cross, Barred Rocks, and Jumbo Brown Quail. I am mainly focused on meat and layers and am experimenting on crosses and developing a layer that is good at free ranging. I'm in Petchabun if that is not too far for a visit.

Good luck with your flock.

Hi JVS,

There is a bug going around where chickens (mainly young ones) are getting infected sinuses and eyes. If it moves to their eyes I cull the bird. Or if they just get so lethargic I can walk up to them and pick them up I cull them. Half of mine are in runs and half have the run of my farm. I have no problems with the adult chickens in my runs. For coccidiosis I treat the birds every 90 days with DE (diatomaceous earth) in their feed and sprinkle it around my coops and in their nests. I don't use antibiotics now, but I have been lucky. I go overboard and scrub the water jars everyday, make sure they are well fed (I mix most of my own feed) and that they get fresh fruit and greens.

What breeds do you have and where are you?

PJ If the B12 you use is in a small green foil pack and is made by Betagro, I thought it had some erythromycin in it.

Find a fairly shaded place and dump some organic material about 10 cm deep. Banana leaves, rice hulls, grass clippings, coffee grounds.....ect. Make it at least 1 sq meter. Each day dump 20 liters of water. After about 2 weeks, you can rake back the organic material and you should see worm burrows. If not, keep dumping the water until you do see them.

These are also called Wood Apple. Definitely insects making the bubbles. Take the photo to the local seed shop and they should be able to sell you the correct spray. I had trees years ago and if I remember, they didn't cause too much problem with fruiting, but I guess it depends on how bad they are.

I have Rhode Island Reds, White Leghorns, and Black Sam Saipan. I also have some crosses. PM me if interested.....I m in Petchabun.

Hi Tai777,

I hope you are able to sort through the info from folks with experience with those of folks with too much time on their hands. Go to You Tube and search "Frog farming in Thailand" and you will come up with dozens of informative videos. Take a look at Obob farms as they are quite good. We still have some of the pens here at my house and out on the farm (we have too much going on at the moment) if you want to visit Petchabun. Also in Petchabun we have a government hatchery for fish and frogs and they are quite knowledgeable, but you can probably find a hatchery closer. One concern would be do you have the market. We live a couple of KM outside of Petchabun and I can tell you that a couple of thousand frogs a month would be difficult to move for a new farmer here. As for bacteria, you need to make sure your pens have some amount of sunlight as that will help, but a good water source will also be needed. On the plus side, they have a decent fcr so a profit is doable.

Good Luck

Hi,

I am not sure where you are at, but I have a couple of breeds of domestic chickens, but they may not be the answer. If you can come for a visit, I can help you sort out your other problems re Thai chickens. I would even consider a trade. PM me if interested. BTW, if you can get some DE (diatomaceous earth) you will end your mite problem. All male fighting cocks should be in their own basket.

cheers

I have one in Petchabun, needs a new engine. It had a 5.5 hp engine when new. You see new ones around every once in a while.

You might try some Prik Som (orange pepper)I think they are a type of Habanero and fairly hot even by Thai standards. You should be able to find some in your local market and just use the seeds. If you can't, pm me and I will see if I can find some up here.

" A good nitrogen fixing tree is the manila tamarind. They do great on the edges of ponds and the fruit is great food for fish, chickens, and ducks"

I don't know if manila is a particular type of tamarind, but I thought that Tamarind was poisonous to fish.

Manila Tamarind have a similar shape with a bit more curl and the green and red pod pops open to show a white flesh. I dump a bunch in the ponds on top of the ones that fall. They have quite a bit of energy so are goo to fatten the fish.

I found a feed store a few months ago that had a roll and I bought all they had. I have asked them to order more and after a month, still no joy. I need it for the flooring for my rabbit and quail cages. The regular wire mesh only lasted 4 months before it rusted through. I have a small amount of uncoated mesh that I got around 15 years ago that is great, but all the new stuff is crap. The plastic mesh will not work for a few reasons, I've tried Home Pro, Global House, Thai Watsadu and a few local shops. I would love an internet reference where I could buy it online, but haven't found one yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I need to

finish out my cages.

Cheers

A lot will depend on how much land you have and what your end goal is. If you can be flexible it could be an interesting project. The main difficulty is that you have a monsoonal climate where you have extreme wet and dry so you will have undergrowth going wild in the rainy season and then it will completely die off in the dry season. If you have enough land you can have a pond or a number of small ones. You might want to research micro climates and integrated farming. I would say that you have some interesting plant choices, but I would go with an alternative to ginger the Thais call Kah (I think it may be galangal) as ginger needs cooler weather. Garlic is a cool season only crop in your area and if papaya get much shade they tend to grow very tall before they have fruit. A good nitrogen fixing tree is the manila tamarind. They do great on the edges of ponds and the fruit is great food for fish, chickens, and ducks and my wife is getting 50 baht a kg for them in the market. There are a couple of edible vines you should have. In general, I would not start with any trees that is not being grown in your area (I'm thinking cashew may grow better closer to the ocean. I don't know how far you are from Petchabun, but if you want to come visit, I could show you some of what I am talking about.

I am doing this mainly to have a good source of low choesteral meat

The ills of cholesterol have been debunked to the point the US FDA is revising its guidelines to say cholesterol is of not of any dietary concern.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-dietary-guidelines-cholesterol-20150219-story.html

I was already aware of the article and the issue is a little more complicated than presented. I agree that most people do not need to be that concerned with cholesterol intake, but there are those that should be. I am definitely one of those. I would like to see some of the original research, but a lot of studies now are funded by groups with agendas and some of the science has gotten sloppy. In any case my quail and rabbits are not only lower in fat and cholesterol than most other meat, but they are organic, fresh and taste great so I will stick with them.

Cheers

In my area if land can only be farmed in the rainy season for 1 crop it goes for 500-600. If there is water available for

multiple crops it doubles and can be higher for better land. 1300 per year for a rai sounds reasonable. I'm not saying you

couldn't get more, but maybe better to put 100K in the bank. The price of rice is no longer your worry for 5 years.

I have made my home in Petchabun for nearly 23 years and that is not likely to change. PM me for directions and you can stop by and see if I am for real.

Over the years I have been lucky enough to get 1 female so I would say that the odds are around 1 in 100. On the plus side she was about the best layer O have seen.

Good luck

The folks on the farmers board know me, but most are way too far away. I am doing this mainly to have a good source of low choesteral meat. Rabbits and quail are lower than chicken and my male chickens will be leaner as well. Quail eggs do not have any bad cholesterol. I don't medicate or vaccinate and mix most of my own feed so I am as close to organic as I can get. Most of my males are free range as well. I am just looking to cover my costs by providing meat and Pure breed (or cross) layer chickens for those who just want a few or few dozen to run around. If demand grows I will to, but I'm doing it for me. I'd be happy to show anyone around. I have a beer from time to time with the guy you are talking about with the chicken farm, but he does 10,000 broilers at a time and CP has very strict rules on him having any other poultry.

A while back I had the wife by a couple of roasted quail from a guy that sells in the markets and fairs. He sells them for 25 baht a piece and his 2 birds weighed 150 grams total (75 grams each). My last batch ran 170 grams each dressed. Plus you have know idea how many antibiotics are in his birds or eggs.

Thanks.