mixedbreed

Hello Isee,

See you have been getting good input on your question, just thought I would throw my 5 cents worth in. We have a Kaset Phattana KPH 16 (three years old) and this year purchased a Kubota DC60, both are bagging machines.

We only get 1 harvest a year.

The points offered by Samula are very true.

• Once you have the machine, you will not require a “scout” the work will come to you.

• We may have 3 man crews, but there is no unloading time, in most of our paddies in this area it would be considerable time to transit to where the truck would have to wait. At present, we just stack the bags on the wall and the owner makes his own arrangement to collect them.

A friend in Buri Ram has 3 DC60’s and it was his good experience with them that we purchased ours.

The KPH 16 does around 35 – 40 rai per day and the DC 60 does around 25 per day, but we have been working till 10.00pm. This has been driven by the huge amount of work offered to us. (600baht rai) We are looking closely at purchasing another machine for next season, We where offered the new DC68, (New offer from Kubota Thailand for 2009) but after many long discussions the family has come to the same conclusion as Samula. The unloading time will not justify the cost reduction in manpower. Actually, the family is inclined to see about purchasing another KPH 16, the customers prefer it, but compared to the DC 60 it is very unreliable, all 3 years now it has had serious breakdowns that have had the repair crew work all night to have it operational for the following day. We are lucky in that Kaset Phattana have a large spare parts facility at Satuk, north of Buri Ram, which is about an hours drive from us. Their manufacturing facility is in Phitsanulok.

We have good “in house” repair facility’s which is also another plus, but for most operators it probably would have meant a lost day.

We have one transporter and bring the DC 60 home each day, the KPH 16 stays on the job with a night watchman, almost each time the customer will always stay as well, his main concern is we do not move the machine until his paddies are finished.

We also have a square baler and because of the large demand we will be purchasing a second machine for next season. We do both, baling in the paddy a couple of days behind the harvesters, as well as doing the collected straw. We have cattle, (approx 110) which we use the baler for putting up Ruzzi hay for the dry season, as well as baling the rice straw. The rice straw baling has evolved into a nice profitable venture.

Just thought I would give my experiences and give you more food for thought.

Hi Isaanaussie,

Possibly he can make something that will do the job, he has a few specialties such as the cut and carry units, trailers, manure spreaders (he has a nice small machine) he made our big unit on a special request. Early this year I had a need to run a kilometer of HDPE piping for reticulation around the farm and while doing research on the different manufacturers I spent a day in Pak Chong looking through the different stores, I saw cutters similar in some of the stores there. Not PTO driven but setup for either diesel or electric motor. At least if you are making the trip to Muek Lek, Pak Chong is just around the corner.

I am leaning towards a PTO driven cutter such as the attached Star model. Interesting to see if the guy in Muak Lek can make one of these or something like it.

isaanaussie

Hi Isaanaussie,

The Muek Lek cutter is strickly cut and carry for the cows, (130) They used to hand cut (Honda) and carry which took 2 people all day, to bad when there was a death or marriage or go to be a Monk. if not careful cows could go hungry. Buying the cut and carry machine solved those problems. The only adjustment is cutting height, for cut length the travel speed must be contolled. Its a flail cutter, not chains but cutting teeth.

Muek Lek fabricator made me another much bigger unit for cutting corn for silage, pretty crude for cut legnths but for now does the job, ones of these days I'll make the effort and get a proper machine. Proberbly be a lot less wastage. I have concrete lined pits that hold over a hundred ton of grass and corn silage.

Have another Flail cutter (imported) by same company sold me the square baler, which I use for grass silage. They also sold me the drum cutter for cutting hay.

The baler is for grass bales of course, as well as the rice straw, We bale direct in the paddy after the rice harvesters have been through. We have 126 rai of rice paddy, 2 harvesting machines and do contract work as well as our own paddies. The baler also does contract baling as you see in the photo, 3 people feeding it from the pile. For our own use we use it as a tow behind, the 35hp yanmar handles it OK. Between the 2 harvesters and the baler they make a good income each year.

Hope this has been of some help.

Dear Mixed Breed,

Thanks for the photos, they will prove useful in explaining what I am looking for.

I notice that you have a decent herd of cattle and a lot of grassed area, both of which I do not. However the static use of the baler is something that interests me. I assume that there is a crew of people hand feeding the grass, hay and straw into it, is that correct?

If you don't mind, I would ask a few more questions about your Muek Lek cutter. What other types of crops do you use it on? Is it a flail (chains) or blade cutting machine? Is there any chop length adjustment?

By the way, your farm layout looks really great. Congratulations.

Isaanaussie

Hello Isaanaussie,

I have never uploaded photo's before, so hope this works.

This is the muek Lek cutter

also an Abbriata square baler purchased from dealer in Bangkok

Almost anything is available in Thailand, just takes looking.

Most of this stuff I bought some years ago so not to upto date on latest prices.

Hopes this loads OK

Dear MF,

Let me start at the beginning so I might benefit more from your knowledge.

I am growing rice with the family. We have plots at 12, 7, 23 and 1 rai in size. This year I will get a contractor with a combine in to harvest the crop and hope to bale the straw myself. I am also growing corn, sweet potatoes and peanuts all for product sale, as well as oil and feed outcomes. We are building a piggery which will house a total of 150 pigs, so my prime intention is to produce as much feed for the pigs as I can. All three crops produce foliage that can be ensiled and I hope to do that.

During the next dry season I want to plant further crops for feed and also other manure and forage crops on as much of the land (plus a bit I am renting) as I can get water to. Again feed is the primary objective.

Now comes the rub. I could buy forage cutter like the Star MFC2340, or a Flail harvester such as Stars MFH0930 or the Thai unit you have described. My feeling is that a 3 point mounted PTO driven cutter with the crop being cut by hand and feed in would probably be the best way to go, as it allows me to use it as a mulcher as well for vermicomposting etc...

A simple slasher deck mower, perhaps a rake/tedder along with the baler and for silage, a wrapper, will do most grass, legume type cutting I need. Green fodder can still be baled and then fed to the few cows we have as well as the pigs. Currently the Thai cows are fed almost entirely of carry over rice straw in the wet season and graze the paddy stubble in the dry. The intention is to selectively graze on smaller parts of the land on which we will grow suitable forage for them.

Obviously it is all budget driven as much as HP available. Locally the people tend to still do everything by hand and I do not believe that many would use the equipment as a service, (they all would if I offered it free).

Whatever I decide must therefore be cost effective for our own land as I am not relying on any external income.

I continue to be interested in any thoughts and opinions you may be able to offer.

Regards

Tony

PS. Tried to find the Thai guys contact details you suggested on the forum unsuccessfully but I have got his number written down somewhere here if I can find it.

Hello Bina,

Don't know if it is of any help or not, but we are in the Nakhon Ratchasima province, have around 100 cows in a feedlot operation. 500 rai, grow both Ruzzi and Guinea grass, do silage and hay bales on a commercial scale. only for our own consumption. but we are about 2 hours out of Korat on the 1305 bus from the big bus station. (Its not so far, just a slow bus) If you could convince your sister in law to visit some strangers, she could go up in the morning and be home late afternoon and she could probably see everything she needs to know about growing grasses, There a large number of families raising cows along the side of the road where we are, assume your sister-in-law has the same idea. some of these get fairly thin by the end of the dry season, but bounce back quickly after the first rains. If this appeals in any way PM me and I'll give you the telephone number for the farm and she can call. At least it is Thai farmer to Thai farmer, not so intimidating for her as dealing with a govt deptartment. Might help with having to try do the basics by e-mail.

regards

Mixedbreed

It was actually 1 of these that I saw in his storage yard down in Chon Buri. Berti have it in there Hydraulic hedge mower product list.

He distributes the complete line of Berti products.

http://www.bertima.it/en/prod_frame.html

4 years ago I purchase a hay baler, silage cutter and drum mower from him and had very good service since. It was while down looking at this equipment that I noticed the other lines of equipment he carries.

We also have 120 rai of rice paddy, last year we invested in the smallest unit that Kaset Pattana manufacture out of Phistinluk . (bagging machine) takes 3 to operate it. Operated on our farm only last year and now investing in a transporter so that this year we can venture forth into the realms of contractor. The problem on our farm, is we store our rice onsite and sell sometime during the year, so the speed of the machine is not the limiting factor but rather the drying of the rice before putting into the rice barn. This is going to give us time to do local contracting work. We already have a long list of people requesting it’s services after seeing it in operation last season. (we are in Isaarn so only get 1 crop a year)

We also have a hay baler that we contract out to bale the rice straw. (its used to put up 2000 bales of ruzzi grass and 3000 bales of rice straw for our on use.

Repairs to the machine last year where done quickly, the machine may need fixing daily but almost any village repair man can do them. We are fortunate we have a reasonable repair shop on the farm, rather necessary with all the equipment we have.

Went and looked at the new Kubota PC10 machine and if it had been available last year I would have bought it instead of the unit we have. Price is the same but the design and quality is far superior.

And yes occasionally, you probably will get paid in rice

I have been using a similar cut and carry set up as Teletiger shows on the below post, twice daily for the last 3 years.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=100081&hl=

post #9 submited by teletiger.

Available from Muek Lek Ph: 036 341792

This will only do the top of the bund walls,

For the slopes, then you will be requiring a boom mower.

A distributer in Bangkok is:

Phong LA-OR Pattana Ltd

Ph: 02 314 6432

02 318 7182

02 719 0789

I suspect the payback time for a new model would be un-realistic, but at least it may give you somewhere else to look.

I also have 1 the same as teletiger, from Muak Lek, ( use with the 35 hp Yanmar) run it almost 1 year with no problems, he built me another bigger unit for behind the Ford 6610 for using on corn, haven't used it enough to comment on it's reliability. He also built me a manure spreader that is getting heavy use right now.

Regards

Hi Pnustedt,

Just thought I might throw my 2 bits in to the conversation. The family has a bit over 500 rai on which we have approx 100 rai of rice paddy, approx 50 rai of Mun (tapiaco) and the rest is in Ruzzi grass. This year the family eventually decided that mechanical harvesting of the rice is probably the best way to go (70 workers took a week last year to cut by hand) and so we took the long drive and visited all the machines we could find. That included Kubota, Yanmar, and 3 of the bigger Thai manufactures. In the end we bought a machine from Kaset Phattana in Phitsanulok. Both Japanese machines just have to many moving parts for my liking. The Thai machine may need fixing daily but anybody can fix it. I must admit, if Yanmar would import their new GS360 model from Japan at a reasonable price I would be right upfront in buying one. Their official answer is they don’t intend to in the immediate future.

Now as to my opinion on tractors. We are the proud owners of a Ford 6610 84hp tractor. A Yanmar 28hp 4wd tractor and a Yanmar 35hp 4wd tractor.

The Yanmars are used in the rice paddies. Light and powerful enough to run the roter-tillers they do amazingly well in the wet rice fields. The heavier machines can only work while the ground is drier. We have excellent service from Yanmar, in fact they had left a 35hp tractor on the farm for several months for field evaluation, we only bought a new one when they eventually came and took theirs back.

The Ford is used for the silage cutter and the hay baler.

Hay baler,(square bales), hay cutter and silage cutter are all Italian machines (Abbriata) imported through a dealer in Bangkok. They provide the service and repairs. So far after 3 years they are still performing well.

Incidentaly, I have just purchased a small flail mower to go behind the Yanmars that we use to “cut and carry” to feed the cows that we are raising for beef. The same manufacturer (from Muek Lek, just out of Korat) has just built us a larger machine to tow behind the Ford to silage chop corn. We will build a second concrete pit and try our hand at corn silage this year, we have been very successful with Ruzzi grass silage. He has also built us a manure spreader. Just receiving it now so haven’t had time to give it the torture test.

Don’t know if this info is of any assistance to you, but though they are not easy to find there is the occasional choice out there.

Good luck with the crop this year.

I'd like to include myself as well as wife and 2 1/2 year old daughter to attend. I am another of those reclusive types that is living up here and need to make the effort to get out among the Farang population. Expecting to move down from near Chum Phuang, to Korat for the daughters schooling in a couple of years.

Just thought I would throw my bit in for what it’s worth.

I have a cattle feedlot operation we are running on a bit over 500 rai. It is some rice paddies and the rest was previously sugar cane, which we plowed in and planted Ruzzi grass. For this we purchased a “new” 6610 ford. (new rubber and paint job). It’s an extremely rugged machine but consumes 3000 Baht of fuel in seemingly a heartbeat. So for the smaller jobs, feeding out / cleaning out the feeding pens / loading out the cow manure, towing the silage and hay trailers, we bought a Yanmar 28hp 4wd. After looking at new and used Kubota’s we decided on a new Yanmar for its maneuverability and also the dealer had a great looking secretary. We bought it with a blade, (easily disconnected) a front loader, ( removes by pulling 2 pins and 3 quick connect hydraulic connectors) a plow and a harrow. We use it after grass seeding to cover the seeds and stop the birds eating them. The tractor was 300,000 and all the attachments were another 110,000.

If you are going to fit a frontend loader you really need the 4wd and the new models come with the power steering. Completely necessary for us to get in and out of the feeding pens.

You guys were basically talking about used tractor but thought I’d chip in my bit.

Dugdig

A couple of years ago we had a “pond”, actually almost 6 rai, dug in, 3 meter deep for 1 ½ rai and the remainder 2 meter. The first wet season filled it to capacity, but dry season had it loose approx half its volume. The dry windy days, one could almost stand and watch the level drop. All this time it was still above the surrounding water table level. This year we built the wall up half a meter to bring it into align with the way the surrounding hills drain into it. Last season it had almost overflowed. This wet season it is again filled to it’s new capacity, which is now well above the surrounding water table level and seems to be holding well. The contractor who did the work had assured us it may take several seasons for the bottom to fully seal. The soil was sandy / clay and gave way to a more solid clay as he got deeper. He kept digging test holes in the bottom as the “pond” grew and what he saw in the test hole determined the different depths. There are 2 other (smaller) ponds on the farm that are approx 10 years old and I am told they sealed up after 3 years. Probably we are lucky, with the soil around here being more conducive to building ponds. It has supported rice farming, sugar cane and tapioca very well but has taken a lot of fertilizer. The sugar cane and tapioca has been replaced with grass and the coming herd of cows should produce our own fertilizer factory. Reading your ideas with much interest. Will see how much can be incorporated into operation and see what works and what doesn’t.

Regards

Mixedbreed

Hi Dugdid and ramdonchances,

The question on the 6610 is easy. Found a place on the bypass road around Korat that had all the pieces for used Ford’s on the ground. Looks like they import in pieces. We went along and looked at/in each and picked an engine, gearbox, rear assembly, frame etc. Wrote down the serial numbers off each and paid a very small deposit. They assembled it using all new bolts, nuts, hydraulic hoses, tires etc, but not inside each component. They came as/is basis but with a six month guarantee. Did an inspection a couple of weeks later to check on it and they delivered 6 weeks later. Ran it for 7 months and the engine thru a connecting rod, so had to pay for another used engine. Hired a new operator. Previous guy got put on fencing detail for his sin’s. It was decided it was operator error rather than mechanical failure. Since then we have had almost no problems. Almost all the places who sell these used tractors do something similar, except this one allowed us to actually pick the components. Not much change from baht 500,000. The replacement engine cost another baht 40,000. They use it sparingly on the farm, it will go through baht 3,000 worth of fuel very quickly. That’s the reason for buying the Kubota. At present, rather than use the tractor they will hire workers and do things by hand, which if you have the time is much more cost effective. Last year they cut all the hay with Honda cutters, racked it up by hand and feed it into a stationary baler. This year we are buying Italian manufactured/imported disc cutter and baler, (Baht 660,00) when you do the math’s it’s cheaper to do it using manual labor, but since we have made the decision to grow bigger then eventually the economy of scale will win out. Actually the original purchase of the ford tractor was a total ego thing. (how can you be a farmer without a tractor).

I went to the Research farm (Kon Kean) the first two times to lend moral support but have backed out now, it’s better Thai to Thai. The girls go up regular. The farm notifies them when they are doing silage or hay or anything that they think we should know and off the family goes. Come back with plenty of photo’s and notes. It was through this that we built the silage pit and hay barn. (They just measured and copied the one on the farm). Wanted to do wilted Silage as they do in New Zealand, (supposedly it doesn’t stink like the regular silage and less runoff.). The farm does it the old way and at this stage it’s better we copy them, so sitting the pit became a best guess as to where the prevailing wind blows. It’s going to smell when we open it. This is our first year for silage. In a couple of seasons when we get caught up we will try the other method. The drum mower and trailers are local Thai manufactured. Have a paper from New Zealand regarding the run off from the silage pit, it can be used for feed supplement for the cows or fertilizer.(Correct mix ratio’s ) It appears the worst thing is for it to get into any water. So that had a big bearing on where we sited the pit. This year we only managed to half full the pit. (it’s built for future expansion of herd). Will let you know how we did regarding quality of the feed. They have had good support from the research farm with visit’s while we where putting up the silage.

Hope this helps a little

Regards Mixedbreed

I have been lurking on this thread since it started. Now it is sort of moving into an area I am in, I can perhaps contribute a little.

Some of my answers may appear uninformed considering the money and time invested in a business, but primarily the “farm” is owned, operated/managed by my wife and sister. Whereas I am a SLOB (sad lonely old bastard with young wife)

The girls get an amazing amount of assistance from the research farm at Kon Kean. They have had day schools on hay making, silage making, grass seeding etc, etc. it’s through them that we get told of up coming farm days at stud farms where they get information from other farmers on availability of specialized equipment such as manure spreaders, silarator (machine for cutting silage) etc.

We are located approx 50km north of Phi Mai (about 1 ½ hours north east of Korat) approx 500 rai of rolling hills which includes around 100 rai of rice paddy. 6 rai of fish pond. Land was sugar cane and we plowed it and planted grass seed. (Ruzzi and Gineree) pardon the spelling. Grass was recommended by the government research farm in Koen Kean.

We have a Ford 6610 2 wheel drive, reconditioned to “like new standard” (nice paint job). We have had three years of reasonable hard work from it, ( no off farm work for it). Have just ordered a new Kobota L2605 4 wheel drive, as the ford is to expensive to use for all the work.

Oh by the way, we are slowly working towards being a feed lot operation. Have a couple of pedigree bulls and around forty cows. Mixed lot of cows, as it’s all new to the family, so we started out with local Thai style cows and now moving to American Brahma’s. This is first year of silage making and large scale hay making. Built silage pit and hay barn last dry season. Number of cows run will depend on feed we can put up.

As you can see from the above we are into a bit of everything, but like I said up front, it’s more of a hobby for me than a business. Since the women handle the business and it’s a steep learning curve for them, we are taking it slowly, the best part about this is the way they realized they knew its what they wanted to do and went straight to the government research farms for proper info. They have turned out to be excellent sources of assistance.

For a first post I would just like to let you know I was here. From your post’s, you guys take it way more serious than me, and certainly are more specific knowledgeable. If you don’t mind I will chip in the odd post and let you know how things have worked out for me on a few of the topics.

Regards