longtimepassed

Unfortunately its the ignorance and gullible voters lack of education that is to blame. The real problem is the lack of education among the poor. And its just how the politicians like it because they can sell the uneducated anything.

Ah here we are: What you are saying is that the poor are too stupid to vote and therefore they should not be allowed to vote, right?

Maybe we should apply that in the US or the UK, too, what do you think? Believe there are very stupid people over there, too! One was even elected president two times!

This article could actually be used as a Word Template. All you have to do is go to the "insert fields' and change the name of the country, leader, promise and result. This headline may as well read "Politicians often promise more than they can deliver and even when they try, events change and they lose their footing." A really amazing article, that could win the Pulitzer would be, "Politician fulfills all the promises on time and everyone is happy!" (Good luck on that ... ) It is a silly article written to spew negative venom on a new administration that has hardly discovered where the ink for the printers is stored.

If they cant find it in an hours time - all they have to do is call Dubai!!!!!!!!!

Yingluck apaarently just denied that she was trying to bring them back!!!!!!!!

"Even if ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra was attending the match, I wouldn't go to Phnom Penh again because I have already met him last week and talked with him for 20 minutes," Kwanchai said.

He said he and Udon Thani red shirts would meet Thaksin next month in Laos.

It reads as " I have met the Almighty already so all my sins are forgiven" ,however in my country this would read as collaborating with a much wanted fugitive criminal and would probably land me in jail instead of a position in governing the country.

What kind of repressive regime did you flee? Speaking to a fugitive in another country would have landed you in jail...really?

I think most Governments would frown on their citizens meeting with exiled wanted for terrorism criminals................which country are you from that says "its ok - go ahead"?

...........but they'll all be rich in 6 months make that 3 1/2

if he hadnt have been threatened by a bunch of thugs on the payrole of a deposed criminal who are so backward that they poured blood round his house, he wouldnt have needed to hide.

If he can win them so comfortably why does PTP persist in rampant vote buying?

A true mystery. Both Party dissoultions of his resulted from elections wherein wins were practical certainties.

People Power Party's dissolution from Yongyuth's openly brazen and documented vote buying when they were already assured of a win without it could be attributed to the sort of unmitigated gall and megalomaniac tendencies Thaksin is renowned for.

Enough is never enough for these types.

.

So what is your view of the recent PTP electoral outcome. Was that a result of vote buying too? If no allegations have been proved by the EC to date and no red cards have been issued to PTP candidates, it would follow that the PTP are not persisting in rampant vote buying as alleged.

The other option as offered in numerous sources is that the PTP have gotten very good at hiding their vote buying antics.

Justice Ministry Spokesman Theerachai Wutthitham countered the remarks of Democrat MP for Songkhla Thaworn Senniam on the red-shirt group's signature campaign to seek a royal pardon for ousted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The first option is, according to Article 259 of Criminal Procedure Act, the convicted submits a request to the Justice Minister himself, as he or she may or may not be serving the sentence at the time of the request.

Everything written after the 2nd comma above, ("as he or she may or may not be serving the sentence at the time of the request"), is pure fabrication.

The Article doesn't say that all.

It states only what was written before the 2nd comma above.

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So who is right here, a thaivisa member or the Thailand Justice spokesman....

hmmmmmmmmm personally Id go for the former rather than the latter

Funny how no Thaksin apologists have posted the words "nation,rag, lies, yellow, Anti Thaksin" to this gem of enlightenment from the Nation. What she means is "cabinet - youd better make us all really popular really quickly so they stop calling me puppet"

I guess you're the new yellow troll.

Welcome to Thai visa !

+1

The puppet has spoken:

Yingluck denies Thaksin gave orders to Cabinet

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra Thursday denied that her brother Thaksin had influenced her Cabinet by instructing the ruling Pheu Thai Party what to do, in his Skype call to Wednesday's gathering of the party's Cabinet members.

"He just offered his moral support to the Cabinet regarding their job of serving the people," Yingluck said.

She explained that the meeting was held for Pheu Thai's Cabinet members to exchange their views on various issues one month after the government has been running the country.

"We really had a meeting among ourselves, and Thaksin just offered his encouragement in the final part of the meeting," she said.

-- The Nation 2011-09-22

+1

Funny how no Thaksin apologists have posted the words "nation,rag, lies, yellow, Anti Thaksin" to this gem of enlightenment from the Nation. What she means is "cabinet - youd better make us all really popular really quickly so they stop calling me puppet"

I guess you're the new yellow troll.

Welcome to Thai visa !

You mean as against the old red one...........?!

with the opposite true as well.... some countries can't tell the difference.

I would, however, like to see which country's leader has specifically stated that the charges against Thaksin are political.

I mean if that is, in fact, "the reality", it should exist, right?

I believe actions, or should I say, inactions demonstrate the point. Mr. Thaksin was traveling the world with no attempt by any country to detain or apprehend him. He entered France, Germany and Switzerland during the period where the former Abhisit government claimed they were seeking his arrest. Mr. Thaksin has been traveling between Dubai, Hong Kong and Brunei in the past six months. Yet, no one in these foreign jurisdictions stopped him. Don't you find it somewhat odd that when the Russians or Americans or Europeans want a person, they usually find that person and get him one way or another? Yet, Mr. Thaksin in the words of the the great American songwriter Bob Nolan, kept tumbling along like a tumbleweed.

Conveniently (and predictably), you overlook the fact that the UK and Germany wouldn't allow him entry (although those dodgy passports may have come in handy), and several other countries including UAE publicly warned him against using their soil for political activities. It would also seem that you are either ignorant of or choose to ignore the Thai Wikileaks cables. I'm sure Google will lead you too them. Some very interesting commentary on Mr T's motivations, behaviour and apparent lack of self-control concerning certain issues are to be found therein.

I remember when he wanted to go to the USA to register a complaint over the treatment of red shirts in their terrorism last year and was told NOT to enter the US by their Government. Truth is - the world doesnt condone Shinawatra - they just couldnt be bothered with a tin pot dictator with nowhere to go..

I'm not surprised it makes such a massive difference to some of your lives if Thaksin travels on a Thai, or any other passport.......

I can't find any comment where posters have said that it makes a difference to their lives.

Their comments indicate that they are upset by the prospect. Why else would there be such a display of anguish?

Who says their comments indicate that? Only you seem to think so on here - could be your perception is warped geriatrick. Or else.......you could just be trolling again. :jap:

Funny how no Thaksin apologists have posted the words "nation,rag, lies, yellow, Anti Thaksin" to this gem of enlightenment from the Nation. What she means is "cabinet - youd better make us all really popular really quickly so they stop calling me puppet"

Another UK example is the reform of the NHS with the Tories promising there would be no major administrative reform before the election, followed by a massive restructuring after they came into power.

AS you say if the level of outrage is as high as some on this thread suggest, no doubt it will be taken into account when the Thai people choose their next government (if they are allowed to).

I appreciate we are talking shades of gray here, but i still don't think the example you offer is anything like on the same level. Let's imagine the above sign was printed in English by the Tories before the last election, with sums that represented for much of the population an increase in their wage by something in the region of 100% to 200%, and days after the election the Tories announced that it was "campaigning speak" that may not in fact be achievable, do you think the reaction from this would have been on a par to the current reaction to backtracking on NHS reforms? Of course not. The reaction would be London riots to the power of ten. Let's not pretend otherwise. And let's not pretend that deceit concerning Guantanamo or NHS amounts to the same thing. It does not.

To be honest the minimum wage issue in Thailand has yet to be finessed or anything like it, so anything we say is provisional.I doubt also whether in the end those in Thailand who feel hard done by are going to vote for anyone else than the PTP.It's not as though the Dems are seen as the poor man's friend so the poor have nowhere else to go to.As I have said frequently on this forum there's an opportunity here for the Korn faction to take on a Disraelian one nation role.

Incidentally I think you are wrong about the British and the NHS.Someone once said - I forget who - it's the closest thing to a religion in the UK.So politicians fool around with it at their peril.(Personally I found it to be a horrible slummy disgrace with, doctors apart, slovenly Neanderthal like staff - but that's not the general view)

AGREE with the first part - personally I have found the NHS has provided MILLIONS of British people with world class health care and saved thousands of lives. Maybe youd prefer waking up to an accountant after a heart operation.

I am in favor of raising the minimum wage but they are going about this all wrong and are going to hurt the people they claim to be helping simply because of a campaign promise. The wage needs to be increased at a reasonable rate over a period of time and not an increase of 40% overnight.

It appears they are doing something like that ... 2012 is the end of NEXT year ... but are vilified by many here for "reneging". Give 'em some time and see if this can work out. It's better than back to square one -- which is Democrats in power, feudal system firmly in place.

The returning criminal = Feudal system firmly in place!!!!

So those innocents who were slaughtered in the , '" war on drugs, the Tak Bai slaughter missing Muslim lawyers etc are of course to be resurrected.

All the money Thaksin diverted to himself will of course be returned to the state, his tax bills and his family's tax paid in full,. And that often promised quote. " I want nothing to do with politics will become a fact?"

Somehow I don't think so.

noooooooooooo - he didnt do anything wrong - hes "just a vi vi vi vi victim"

Throw in all the "ifs" and "probablys" you like, it still fits my definition of corruption. IF he had recused himself, the implication that he may have influenced the decision would still be there, the point is he didn't care.

The loan is usually referred to as "soft," hence my assumption below market interest rates, or am I wrong?

You simply emphasize again you don't understand export credit business.Export credit loans are always "soft", ie below commercial banking rates or even interest free.That's the whole point, namely to encourage foreign countries to buy one's own country's goods and services.

Whether the process could have been fair even if Thaksin had played by the rules is a very reasonable point.In other words difficult for ministers, banking officials and civil servants to turn down an application associated with Thaksin given the climate of that time.Difficult to get around when the PM is a major industrialist, even in a country where transparency and governance is better than in Thailand.

The point is jayboy as you correctly say - "it is a difficult situation" but yet again Thaksin showed his LACK of moral scruples and ability to make a reasoned judgement by not steering clear of something which could easily be construed as at best dishonest...therein lies this posters problem with Khun T - if in doubt he always goes for personal gain ,,,,in my opinion a leader should be above that.

OF COURSE its a garbage article - it doesnt say the red shirts/PTP/Thaksin are right does it? However one sentence rings true -

The red shirts will find their efforts in vain to prevent a repeat of the power seizure if they focus on condemning the military, but neglect to address political issues which triggered the coup.

........going back on every policy they made during the election except the one to bring a convicted criminal back to take the reigns of the country AWAY from democracy is a sure fire way to drum up support for a coup-as it was in 2006

A.) 1.5 million is a huge number.

B.) If there had been deliberate fraud for nearly half of the signatures, do you not think that would have been noticed by the people verifying the signatures? And if it had been noticed, as the petition was big news 2 years ago and strongly opposed by the party in charge at the time, don't you think that the gov't would have exposed the fraud to discredit the petition?

But you (and others here) feel that 1.5 million signatures were "faked and made up" as Bakseedaa so concisely put it.

If you want to believe in a very unlikely scenario, that is your choice.

One thing Ive noticed reading your posts tiansford - In the words of Nai Bevin - "you dont listen very well do you"?

Point A - well done you can deal with big numbers now - good chap!!

Point B - thats less than one each EASILY done - and the people verifying signatures DID notice thats why they said 1.6 million had irregularities did you not know that or do your red tinted glasses get in the way of everything in your daily life? Try and remember you camps mantra and chant it daily - "truth today".

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

Under Section 265 of the code, when a pardon is granted, the punishment must not be imposed.

The previous director-general, Chartchai Suthiklom, had been accused of stalling the appeal process, letting the 3.5 million petition signatures, 35 boxes in all, gather dust in a room. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) submitted the petition seeking a royal pardon for Thaksin in August, 2009. Any punishment for this blatant obstruction?

Standard procedure by police and the Bangkok elite (and its lackeys) to prevent the law from being applied. I.E. Investigations into the deaths of people in the Wat after the rally had been dispersed, assassination of Seh Dang, the sluggish police reaction after the gambling dens had been publicly exposed, the partial search warrants destined to block access to the gambling venues...

HaHa... what nonsense, it reads that , the person to appeal has to have served at least half of his or her sentence, also has to admit their guilt... and as for the three and a half million signatures, it has been established that over one and a half million of them were fake and made up names... Thaksin will go down in history with the likes of Adolf Hitler and Stalin... and what are you if not a "lackey"

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

not at all tiansford old chap 1.6 million scribbles can be done very quickly by 2 million people - imagine the scene in the Isan red village "you vill sign your namen und scribble on the next line", another flawed red shirt argument !!! NEXT!!

I think the lady in the OP sums up who gets it........

Noranat Nongnapat Thammapeera, self-employed: Why are they so obsessed about the Thaksin issue? Most news reports try to link everything to Thaksin

We could turn that round to pose a very interesting question "Why is Thaksin so obsessed with Thailand, he tries to link everything to his downfall there". There are those who dont want him bought back quietly and forgiven. They havent forgottemn what he did the first time.

Interesting comments from the Thai people. Despite the derisive stereotypical caricatures presented in these forums, the subjects interviewed all offered some rational, intelligent thoughts. It seems that too many people posting base their views on the people they encounter in the beer bars and brothels and not the actual everyday people that make up Thailand.

How would you know, how can you tell, dear Gkid ?

Gkid is an expert on many things - his fountain of wisdom has silenced many a good debate in democrat supported "beer bars and brothels" throughout the LOS.:jap:

That "something like" is nothing like he said. That is a misquotation taken out of context, from guess where, THE NATION. The full phrase is

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

http://www.thaivisa....is-not-my-goal/

Doesn't sound quite so sinister now, does it? But hey, why not repeat a misquotation thousands of times until everybody thinks that that, is what Thaksin said.....................

Sounds a bit like communism to me...

And doesnt really matter how you read it... the important part there is "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal"

So how do you wanna spin that sunshine?

Well if that sounds like communism to you, fair enough, it's your take on it. I don't need to spin it, sunshine, I just take it in the context it's written - its others that spin it, for their own reasons.

"sunshine" eh ?? what about "old chap" - how condescending!!

No matter how veiled the speculation, do not go there.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

Several posts have been deleted.

Perhaps this advice should be passed on to several serving politicians....

............and exiled criminal ones

People do not respond, because they think that is just a Muslim insurgency - it is infact more than that. Police and soldiers get attacked because they are disripting drug trafficking through thailanf and malaysia. This activity is alleged to be supported by elements of the malaysian government, though I have never seen evidence of this I travelled to Malaysia fir many years and know how they treat their non mulslim population in comparison to their native muslim population. To Malaysia, yala, pattani and narathiwat were siezed and given to Thailand but should never have been, so it is their desire to see disruption there.

Buddist villages get attacked by muslim terrorists, because they are kaffir.. that is, to be not muslim. Monks are killed for the same reason.motorbike bombs in the main streets, my girlfriends own family shot as theyngathered fruit to take to the market on their days off from teaching... you cannot travek with your cell phone on, because the signals along the road will trigger IED bombs which activate when they detect a cell phone signal.. can you imagine?

I nearly had my throat cut in kuala kubu bahru in makaysia, fir being white.. it was assumed I was a Christian American... I am a Kiwi athiest!

So it is, that you have elements of a neighboring state supporting both terrorism and the drug trafficking and protection trade which fund it wxisting under the same roof. I know, i spent a lot of time as a Farang in Yala and northern Malaysia.

Interesting and true - "To Malaysia, yala, pattani and narathiwat were siezed and given to Thailand", whereas history, as written by the Thai, English and French have the entire isthmus as part of Siam. There are records that mention Siamese Garrisons being evacuated when Britain took over Penang and Singapore. This is like the disgreements over Angkor Wat (Nakon Wat). The Khmer empire slowly crumbled for 2 centuries, leaving Ayuttaya in control of everything West of Siam Riap for over 50 years. Then the French took control and as late as 1953 finally transferred their last vestiges of control of their 'Siamese Protectorate' to Cambodia.

My point - 'Western Intervention' brought this trouble and now Thailand has to deal with it...

Did the martians play their part too - you should remember when western powers took over the areas you state they had been ASKED at taxpayers expense to help defend against Japan BY South East Asian Governments!!! Dont forget what happened here from 1939 to 45!! Thailand was NEVER colonised and Malaya as it was known along with Singapore REQUESTED membership of the British Empire.

Thaksin was scheduled for a golf outing with Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, but it was canceled, as the Cambodian leader had a sore wrist.

Wow!!! seems like hes REALLY trying to please Khun T in EVERY way!!!