george Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 PM'S DECLARATION:'Democracy is not my goal' Thaksin suggests he'll block any move for amendments to rein in his power BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday revealed for the first time the value he places on democracy, saying it was not the foremost thing Thailand needed. In a candid statement made ominous by its release on Constitution Day, Thaksin said that as long as the country could progress and the people were happy, he was not concerned about the means used. "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress." In a comment to counter calls for constitutional amend- ments that would support the sputtering checks-and-balances mechanism, the prime minister hinted that he would block the campaign to amend the charter, an issue that could cause a fall-out between him and his Chat Thai Party allies. "Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices." Amid threats of total domination by the ruling Thai Rak Thai Party, the minor coalition partner, academics and opposition MPs agree there is an urgent need to sharpen the teeth of independent constitutional bodies and empower a parliamentary system of checks and balances. "I don't think there's a need to amend the charter right now," said Thaksin. "Maybe they want to because they want to censure me in Parliament." Many rules within the Constitution are said to be playing into the hands of Thaksin as they seem to ease his on-going consolidation of power and expansionist philosophy. Among them is the requirement that a censure motion against the prime minister has to be signed by at least 200 MPs. Before leaving for the Asean-Japan summit in Tokyo, Thaksin avoided actually naming the Chat Thai Party, which has proposed a public referendum to amend the Constitution coinciding with the 2005 general election. "If they really want to do it for good reasons, why didn't they do it earlier when they had enough support in Parliament?" Thaksin said. "There's no real need to change the highest law at the moment. If we do have implementation problems, we can review the Constitution's organic laws." The Chat Thai Party has set up a working group to review the Constitution. But the study could take a long time, its leader Banharn Silapa-archa confirmed yesterday, at the risk of upsetting his powerful ally. "We are reviewing both the charter and organic laws, as we think that it's time to amend the Constitution," said Banharn. "But I can't say whether we can finish in time for the next election." Chat Thai leaders have said the charter has failed to produce an adequate system of checks and balances in the political system, as a single party dominates Parliament and many independent constitutional bodies. Once lauded as one of the best constitutions the country has had, the 1997 charter is seen by a growing number of critics as having failed to cope with the realities of Thai politics in the era of Thaksin's political and business empire. Chat Thai wants all political parties represented when selecting members of key independent bodies, which have been under growing influence of Thai Rak Thai. Snoh Thienthong, leader of the Wang Nam Yen faction of Thai Rak Thai, also alluded to support for constitutional amendment and suggested Thaksin was the reason to review the charter. "The prime minister's thoughts run faster than the Constitution, so it might be necessary to change the law to keep up with him. He's a commander who moves faster than his army," Snoh said. Former Constitution Drafting Assembly members who wrote the existing charter have backed calls for amendment to bolster the checks-and-balances mechanism before it falls apart. "When we made it a rule that the censure motion must be submitted by at least 200 MPs, we never envisaged any party would one day have the staggering influence of 400 MPs in Parliament," said Decho Sawananont, one of the charter-drafters. "This hampers the opposition's work and the future looks bleak." --The Nation 2003-12-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Good to see it in print. Wonder which party will get the chop for it. Also which Western Press Operations will be blacklisted for following up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 He should have learnt last time that that isn't the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwiz117 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress.""Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices." Well Said.... That is what we Asian Countries need. This Democracy is a tool that western countries have set in Asia and keep on insisting, as a norm or the best way to govern a Country. It is the main problem for all these divisions we have in Asia. It is great to see that Countries in Asia have realized the true colour of this and moving ahead of doing good for the country, instead of arguing and fighting over Democracy. If Thailand and other countries in Asia can follow the above statement what PM Thaksin has expressed yesterday, that will do lot of good to them. Who cares of International media and support anyway? They will only support only it's favorable for them. Not for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling Stone Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Kwiz spoken like a true blue light-skinned asian of Chinese heritage. Money equals power good for you! Keep it real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkstoney Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Democracy is dangerous to government and business. He screwed up royally. You give a guy like that the responsibility of the starring role in the latest episode of "Who's In Charge?" and he tells the truth!! PAHAHA He's fired. so fired. His logic is classic, isn't it? To country folks, a pick-up truck or off-road car is more practical than a Rolls Royce. If democracy were a car it would be a Rolls Royce. Therefore, democracy is not what country folks need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwiz117 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 His logic is classic, isn't it? To country folks, a pick-up truck or off-road car is more practical than a Rolls Royce. If democracy were a car it would be a Rolls Royce. Therefore, democracy is not what country folks need. No..it's not exactly what he meant.. "Whenever we need to go in a Rolls Royce we go. But we need to have alternatives that should suit our roads in Thailand. If the roads are not upto the level of driving a Rolls Royce, then we should change to a Pickup and somehow go to the Village" What democracy does is, stop the Rolls Royce on the border of the village and look at it from outside since the Car can not reach inside. That is where the problem is. So forget about Rolls..get into a Pickup and go to where you want and address the problems. Now that is what he really meant from the above statement. I am not agree with all the 'Elite Card' staff that PM Thaksin does. But look..when a person do or trying to do something good, we should appreciate it. Not to have a go at every single thing he does. Anyway, his actions are thousand times better than some Presidents and Prime Ministers around us. You know what I mean...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 This goes a good ways to explain why he is not wanted at the helm, in MANY quarters of society. A loose cannon with an ego run amuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Mix1up Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 But look..when a person do or trying to do something good, we should appreciate it. Not to have a go at every single thing he does. at an extreme this would be the case then hes ok as long as he does 51% good or ok things then you can ignore the 49% of bad or terrible things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 But look..when a person do or trying to do something good, we should appreciate it. Not to have a go at every single thing he does. at an extreme this would be the case then h......... ok as long as he does 51% good or ok things then you can ignore the 49% of bad or terrible things Well, "I ONLY beat her to death, I didn't strangle her or anything"... is it this what you mean? As long as the proposed targets are reached, the means aren't questionable? besides it's NOT about 49-51% it's about the law, limits, check and balance and that EVERYONE has to abide by them....EVERYONE! "You stole, enriched yourself, amassed incredible wealth out of the states coffers you are supposed to be running and ignored every standard of law there is!" Well I am a popular and democratically elected leader! Is it this what you want to point to the audience? He is a smart guy, look at him and hey, rich too! It's getting genuinely ridiculous! get real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Has anyone realised that this topic is nearly 5 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Yes, I saw that as soon as I opened it. And it's relevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 This thread comes up as 'related' to the propaganda-festival from Saturday night hence the recent postings in it. But yes, many of us see the original post date. Even if the news has relevance today as we have new posters that are proclaiming their love for Thaksin and how his reign was a time of perfect democracy. Always nice to be reminded what we read some years back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 This thread comes up as 'related' to the propaganda-festival from Saturday night hence the recent postings in it.But yes, many of us see the original post date. Even if the news has relevance today as we have new posters that are proclaiming their love for Thaksin and how his reign was a time of perfect democracy. Always nice to be reminded what we read some years back... And it also necessitates putting the statements in the context of that period and the intent of what was said. The English translation skews the message somewhat. You may wish to read the actual statements in the original Thai language. (This view comes from one of my friends who is not a Thaksin supporter but detests the bangkok mob.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Yes, everything wrong that happened or said was due to translation-errors or atleast wasn't done by him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Nice bump. Well, if Thaksin isn't fussed about pure democracy, and Chamlong feels likewise about disenfranchising the more intellectually-challenged members of Thailand, maybe they have got something in common ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Some members of Thaivisa fail to realise that Chamlong's proposal would give MORE power to some members of Thai society, not less, ie guaranteed direct representation instead of being subservient to local mafia bosses with political aspirations. Edited November 3, 2008 by Jai Dee Edited to remove flaming content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Chamlong's proposal What exactly is his proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 70% if MPs come directly from various sectors of society, not from politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 70% if MPs come directly from various sectors of society, not from politicians. MPs can't be politicians? They are by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) ^We have a similar appointment system for the Legislative Council in Hong Kong Banks vote for the bank representative Accountants for the accountancy representative But the poor folk up in Tin Shui Wai or Yuen Long - who work in a shop or market garden, (or don't work at all) don't have a professional classification they can vote for. They do get the right to vote still - for a local councillor - who.....stands for local election under the banner of a political party. Edited November 3, 2008 by Journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I bet in Thailand there would be more representatives of farmers and small traders than bankers and doctors - thanks to the current conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I thought Taksin said he would quiit politics. Therefore I choose to ignore his statements today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I bet in Thailand there would be more representatives of farmers and small traders than bankers and doctors - thanks to the current conditions. Wherever they came from, once they're MPs they're also politicians. Chamlong's proposal doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunnaag Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 This Post is deleted by Moderator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Has anyone realised that this topic is nearly 5 years old? It was brought up because it shows a long term pattern in Thaksin's though processes. And it certainly is relevant to todays message. To say he is the defender of Democracy today, when he said it was only a means to an end while in office, puts the lie to the current defense of his crimes and malfeasance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I bet in Thailand there would be more representatives of farmers and small traders than bankers and doctors - thanks to the current conditions. Wherever they came from, once they're MPs they're also politicians. Chamlong's proposal doesn't make sense. I'm not saying it's a good system or the best - but your opposition built on semantics are childish. The selectionprocess wouldn't include any group called 'politicians' (since that would lead to recursive selections). It doesn't matter if You wanna call them 'politicians' or (like they most likely want to) 'representatives' once they Are selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I bet in Thailand there would be more representatives of farmers and small traders than bankers and doctors - thanks to the current conditions. Wherever they came from, once they're MPs they're also politicians. Chamlong's proposal doesn't make sense. In Thailand there are millions of farmers and labourers, a handful of bankers. It would seem fair that farmers get more representatives, - dozens (hundreds!) more, but i'm not clear that Chamlong is making that numerical distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I bet in Thailand there would be more representatives of farmers and small traders than bankers and doctors - thanks to the current conditions. Wherever they came from, once they're MPs they're also politicians. Chamlong's proposal doesn't make sense. I'm not saying it's a good system or the best - but your opposition built on semantics are childish. The selectionprocess wouldn't include any group called 'politicians' (since that would lead to recursive selections). It doesn't matter if You wanna call them 'politicians' or (like they most likely want to) 'representatives' once they Are selected. It's not childish, wherever they come from once they are MPs (or representatives) they'll end up being politicians both literally and practically. Their inexperience of 'politics' won't stop them from being corrupt and self-interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabaijai Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Has anyone realised that this topic is nearly 5 years old? It was brought up because it shows a long term pattern in Thaksin's though processes. And it certainly is relevant to todays message. To say he is the defender of Democracy today, when he said it was only a means to an end while in office, puts the lie to the current defense of his crimes and malfeasance. Whenever the democracy fetishists champion Thaksin or the PPP for their democratic ideals, they might be reminded of this public statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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