jamesbrock

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The only issue James it that this wasn't a public scheme, in the government's budget, subject to parliamentary scrutiny and audited management accounts. 

It was deliberately kept off budget, away from parliament, with no accounts ever presented. Yingluck appointed herself chair, never bothered actually turning up and chairing meetings, dismissed all warnings whatsoever and flagging of problems whilst repeatedly announcing she was in control, only her, and she made decisions. 

 

Hardly the same as the government subsidies you refer to.

Agree to disagree. 

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

To be honest if he's only going down now because he's upset his protectors, then I'm fine with that. 

 

 I'd like to see all involved rot in gaol but for now I'll take this piece of faeces reaping his slice of misery.

 

I hate all those involved in trafficking people. 

 

If he's guilty that is. 

That's the thing: claims do not make a person guilty, especially RTP claims.

Many many resorts employ cheap burmese labour, their presence alone does not imply human trafficking.

This could easily be a case of a jealous business rival spreading false rumours that the authorities have picked up on, or the authorities being the jealous business rivals... We shouldn't be calling him a piece of faeces just yet.

57 minutes ago, trogers said:

 

His crime is simple. A foreigner who purported he is Thai and using undeclared foreign funds to own land.

Nor should we be so sure he has even committed a crime, let alone proclaim him guilty of crimes not even mentioned in the article!

1 minute ago, halloween said:

To be proportional, with Oz to Thai GDP around 3 to 1, the loss would have to be around US$60 billion, or AU$80 billion. With SFA to show for it.

At the rate it's going, and by the time Turnbull's fraudband is replaced with the network we should have, it will cost considerably more than $80 billion.

Labor's original plan was to connect an optical fibre network to just about every home and business in the country—Fibre to the Home (FTTH)—creating a superfast, high capacity network that would future-proof broadband in Australia for many years to come.

But to "save on costs," the Liberals decided many homes and businesses will be connected to the network via nodes that connect the fibre to the already obsolete century-old copper telephone wires (Fibre to the Node (FTTN), which will considerably slow down speeds.

In 2013 Turnbull labelled his version on the NBN as ‘fast, affordable, sooner’, but every assumption which he used to justify his shift from Labor’s superior fibre-based network to his inferior multi-technology mix has been proven wrong.

Wrong on cost, wrong on timing, wrong on technology.

Turnbull promised he could build a second rate copper NBN for $29.5b but it is now costing up to $54b - $14 billion more than the full FTTH.

The Liberals promised all Australians they would have access to minimum speeds on the NBN by 2016, but that timing has blown out to 2020. The NBN corporate plan released in August states that it will only be by June next year that nearly half of Australia will even be able to order a FTTN service.

Under Malcolm Turnbull’s watch — Australia’s internet speeds dropped from 30th in the world to 60th.

Even before it is complete, there are plans to replace it with - you guessed it - a full FTTH network.

If there was ever a monumentally flawed wasteful scheme - this is it. 

The question is: who should have their personal assets seized to pay for the losses to the state - Abbott or Turnbull?

1 minute ago, halloween said:

I would like to see it instituted in Australia. But OTOH can you think of any Oz government implementing a scheme as monumentally flawed and wasteful as the rice scam?

Turnbull's butchering of the NBN springs immediately to mind...

1 minute ago, Thaiwrath said:

Let's hope they don't come on Thaivisa, and find all the alleged 'unusually wealthy' people on here.

Aren't all farangs wealthy though?

From another story about corrupt officials: 

Quote

Eight out of the 62, ranging from local officials to high ranking ones including director generals, had been fired and 25 were discharged. The rest received less severe penalties including salary cuts, probation and warnings.

Who needs more jails?

Did he decide to stop handing over the brown envelopes?

37 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

This has become so absurd I've come to the conclusion that the people are just patiently waiting for the end of the current 'era'. Until then they are just letting these chuckleheads play their games.

Why do you think the junta was allowed to stage the coup in 2014?

3 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Mr Meechai Ruchuphan is the only non military member. He was appointed as legal advisor to the then Prime Minister in 1973 and has stayed there ever since. He is favoured by the palace.

 

These gentleman still have the last say in politics.

These gentlemen, the junta, take orders from gentlemen who have the last say in politics.

4 hours ago, smedly said:

so there is actually going to be an effective body that holds any elected government to account

 

That will be a first in Thailand and IMO is very welcome

 

nothing like being forced to actually do what you are elected to do

 

Might I add - I will be the first to call foul with a huge red card if they do anything that interferes with what most reasonable people would regard as normal government affairs 

 

lets see if an elected government can do what it is supposed to do for the first time in Thai  history

 

oh yes, some people will be pissed off because their revenue stream is being cut off......I see nothing at all wrong with that

3 hours ago, smedly said:

I'm going to post this again because it is great reading if you want to understand TiT, it pretty much sums up what goes on here year after year, now we might have someone to scrutinise any elected government - it Is the constitution that is supposed do that but since any elected government in Thailand can manipulate everything to suit their needs ........................... they believe that because they won and election  then they have the ultimate power to do anything - and there is exactly where the problem is, if these people understood what democracy actually is and if they would also believe that elected or not - they cannot simply do what ever the f     they want - it is not as simple as that - but hey..................................going forward we will have a body of people who's task is to make sure  any future elected government - does its job .........................not easy

 

anyway - here is a post I made in another thread....pretty much explains who stuff works here in Thailand 

 

if you understand how corruption works in this country then the only side (as some refer too) that is able to effectively corrupt are those that are in office and hold all the aces (excluding the military - see below)

 

It goes something like this

 

1. First and highest priority - win an election by any means to get into government

 

 - Once Elected

 

2. Remove key people in key jobs and replace them with your cronies/relatives

3. All affiliate organisations and people will take over various concessions local authorities etc (we are redshirt)

4. Dismantle - weaken - reorganise institutions that are meant to combat illegal activities such as corruption, remove people that will not comply

5. Amend the parts of the constitution  that inhibit your ability to corrupt

6. Lie through your teeth and hide irregularities associated with government finance

 

Once everything is set in place - thieve as much as you can until the people become aware of what you are up too and take to the streets in protest 

 

Yes the military are likely corrupt also as is almost every person in the country - they are all at it in one way or another

 

The current PM walks a very thin line, if he attempts to interfere with certain people he may find himself out of a job, fighting corruption in Thailand is no easy task, it needs to be done in steps and for obvious reasons the military are going to be one of the last that needs to eventually be dealt with. Others that come before would be the Judiciary and the police - none of it easy.

 

One thing is for sure, whoever takes on such a mammoth task needs to be holding all the aces for a very long time, the only type of person that fits the role will be a very powerful military person that has good intensions and the means to see it through.

 

The only other option would be a civil war were the military are eventually dismantled and someone or some group with good intensions wins - very unlikely - hugely costly and damaging to the country  

Stunning in its naivety and inaccuracy.

2 hours ago, smedly said:

How dumb is that - do you honestly believe Thailand has ever had an election that wasn't a charade - seriously

 

and if you want to be educated as to how it developes from there then read my post above

 

consider yourself educated  

So self assured, so wrong.

If one actually wanted to be educated, they could search out and read an opinion piece published in The Japan Times yesterday - this would explain why the military staged the coup in 2014.

2 hours ago, smedly said:

correct, but others here make stuff up out of pure ignorance and stupidity - all future elected governments  for at least the next 20 years will be held accountable - past constitutions tried to do that - agencies tried to do that - but elected governments tried to dismantle any law- constitution article or agency that stepped in their way, now that is not going to happen because there is an agency that cannot be dismantled that is going to make sure that all future elected governments abide by the law and work in the interests of the people and the country............now you can say all you want about this agency and how it will be run but the bottom line is - if they achieve their goal then what a game changer we are looking at in Thailand right now and going forward - future governments will actually be doing the job they are supposed to be doing

The fact that you think Thai politics is about politics, that you think the junta (this and any before it) is anything more than a blunt tool put to crude use by factions of the feudal elite - and that you do so so proudly - is quite funny really.

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Responsibility for politicians for their management of the nation's wealth. What a novel concept!

If a public official having personal assets seized as penalty for losses (spending) in a public scheme had happened before at any time in history, in any country that had ever existed, then I'd agree that the general in more progressive than thought - but as it is—a globally, historically, unprecedented move targeting a member of one political faction—it's a long way off passing the sniff test.

Why did they even need to stifle freedom of speech before the referendum?

It's not like the junta selecting all 250 senators who will then propose an unelected PM who will rule for 8 years—and will simply dissolve the newly elected Parliament if they fail to select the correct unelected PM—is anything even closely resembling the draft constitution which (only 34% of) the population endorsed.

Returning Thailand to democracy - does anyone still believe this?

What a painfully frustrating job it would be! I wonder if he can't wait to be able to tell the truth?

45 minutes ago, trogers said:

You think DSI recruit directly from the general public, especially senior posts?

Actually, like any bureau like the FBI or AFP, I'd expect they'd recruit the most highly qualified investigative officers from police, customs and revenue departments, as well as prosecutors, accountants, lawyers and public servants from a variety of other government agencies. The current, Director-General, Mrs Suwana Suwanjata, is the former Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Justice.

2 minutes ago, fruitman said:

My sister in law is pregnant, please tell us where it happened....she won't leave the house anymore now.

It's pretty stupid that they won't tell people where, but I guess Zika has been found all over so it's best to cautious no matter where the microcephaly cases are.

I wonder if they're going to revisit the two cases they ruled out on Tuesday?

Don't you mean: "Thailand suspends seahorse trade because it could not meet its obligations regarding conservation concerns"?

Again, making the junta's decision appear altruistic rather than a requirement to avoid trade sanctions.

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

You must be joking. She appointed herself chair. Never bothered to attend meetings or show any interest in any warnings. But still claimed she alone was responsible, in charge and made the decisions.

 

In the UK, knowing others are corrupt and keeping quiet is a criminal offense. 

She has not yet been found guilty of any criminal offence. She is charged with dereliction of duty causing damage (Criminal Code Section 157) and failure to perform her duty as a state official (Anti-Corruption Act 1999) for allegedly causing losses to the state.

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

I don't think what Thailand has or has not now has any bearing on Yingluck's gross negligence and complicity in being a puppet stooge for her brother. 

As she or her legal team have yet to offer one sentence in actual defense of the actual charges, or give her explanation, we wait with bated breath. Maybe she can explain why this isn't gross negligence.

Now you're just making things up! What do you think she and her legal team were doing in the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions all last month? Just because you didn't see, or read about, her testimony, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

8 hours ago, Gunna said:

It was never a subsidy - that's a blatant lie that keeps being repeated by brainwashed imbicilles..

It was an off budget scheme that was promoted as self financing - that everybody ( except PTP ) told her that it wouldn't work

In reality it was scam using Thai public funds to buy the votes of the farmers so she could introduce the amnesty bill for her lying thieving brother.

It backfired when world rice price fell and she couldn't stop the scheme /scam for fear of losing the farmers support.

The result is most rice farmers are poorer than before the scam started - and many committed suicide and had to sell their farms due to increased debts.

The only people that made money were corrupt government officials, warehouse owners, rice millers, rice exporters,  rice transport companies, absentee landlords  and a few large scale rice farmers . 

But not Yingluck. She is charged with dereliction of duty causing damage (Criminal Code Section 157) and failure to perform her duty as a state official (Anti-Corruption Act 1999) for allegedly causing losses to the state, not with any corruption charges in relation to this scheme.

Do you think if the junta had even a shred of evidence that she gained personally that they wouldn't be shouting it from the mountain tops?

If she is charged and found guilty of personally gaining through corrupt means, then by all means seize that what she stole.

44 minutes ago, jerojero said:

And what about the 100 other ministers and RTP and army leaders? All millionaires!

Has anyone asked the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police how he acquired 962 million baht?

18 minutes ago, trogers said:

DSI? Just the police with a change of label...

If you mean an agency that operates completely outside the law while pretending to uphold it, then, yes; if you mean officially, then no.

The RTP operate directly under the Office of the Prime Minister, while the DSI operate under the Ministry of Justice.

Come on, who seriously didn't see this coming?

(Rhetorical question, as I know the four posters above me did...)

That black Vios driver dodged a bullet!

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

A witch hunt is where people are randomly unjustly accused of something. She appointed herself chair of this scheme which her brother and his government touted as self financing and insisted it was not a subsidy included in the budget and subject to parliament's scrutiny. 

 

As Chair did she attend any meetings?

Did she act on the warnings from the World Bank, Bloomberg or IMF?

Did she act positively on warnings from internal people?

Did she ensure allegations of corruption and fraud in the scheme were thoroughly investigated and that procedures were robust?

Did she ensure management accounts were produced?

Did she lie about G2G deals which she allegedly negotiated?

Did she lie to farmers when vowing to pay them "next week"?

Did she say she and she alone was in charge?

 

Now ask yourself why?  Her brother thought he could wangle his Amnesty and cover her as well, get back free and active and get his hands on the 2.2 trillion baht loan. Then all of this could have been swept under the carpet and plenty of dosh to make sure the family stayed in power for generations. All came unstuck because he misjudged the Thai peoples reaction to his crude whitewash attempt.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to the scheme being an outright disaster - and YL being ultimately responsible.

I accept and agree with DPM Wissanu that "the guilt wasn't caused by corruption, but by dereliction of duty."

What I do disagree with is the completely unprecedented move of seizing her personal assets, making responsible as a private citizen for actions she undertook as PM. Has this happened in any country (outside of banana republics) in the world, ever?

Why is this any different to the thousands of documented, but forgotten, cases of political office holders, state bureaucrats, or commissioned military officers losing billions through dereliction of duty? There is zero difference, but—as JAG so accurately described it—the all embracing overarching obsessive hatred of the Shinawatra family shared by you and the general, a hatred that seems to cloud your otherwise reasonable outlook.

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Solutions to zero-dollar tour problems to pave way for tourists' confidence: Deputy premier

Very misleading headline by the NNT...

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Deputy Prime Minister Thanasak Patimaprakorn said that solutions to the so-called zero-dollar tour problems are to be found and pave way for tourists' confidence. 

Possibly, probably, maybe; but we'll announce it as a fait accompli.

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The authorities including the Department of Local Administration, the Department of Business Development and the Tourist Police Division are yet to cooperate with each other to prevent and combat such tour rackets, he said. 

Ah, the fourth paragraph and we find out nothing has even begun yet!

3 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that the issue was not seriously affecting tourism-related revenues

Wait, so why did you need to seize about 13.2 billion baht in assets from fuu-an and OA tourism companies for allegedly operating zero-dollar tour operations??

Didn't the Chief Propagandist Sansern say in April that around 305 billion baht was being generated annually by this dodgy business? How can 305 billion baht being remitted back to China annually not seriously affect tourism revenues?

Criminal Court, Appeal Court, Supreme Court - all over someone's feigned hurt feelings.

How much bureaucratic and judicial effort, how much expense just for the puerile concept of face?

7 minutes ago, JAG said:

Ever wondered why she stays?

 

Who is the alternative to the Junta when the people eventually have had enough?

 

It's called playing the long game.

 

Political novice she may be, but I think she is cleverer and more ambitious  than many realise.

 

I doubt she is really bothered about the money, that is taken care of. I doubt whether she is that bothered about being sent to prison, if anything that would be in her favourite. 

 

Must drive the little general mad!

I often wonder just how hard they would try if they did decide to take her in. I mean the money laundering monk had a few "followers," and that case has faded into oblivion - how many "followers would" YL have when it came to the crunch? And would the authorities just meekly back away? Would she compliantly surrender herself?

4 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I guess you guys have Alzheimers or just like to think your clever. I live in one of the areas flooded in 2011. We've had no concerns for the few couple of years. However, I've been pretty concerned since the focus after suffering the drought from late 2015 until a month ago has been to store water. I'm still very worried that we will be flooded, but your BS is just Thai bashing.  

Yawn.