Sunbelt

As for doing it yourself, it would be impossible unless you can read and write Thai.  Also, if you had a Thai that can help you, if it’s their first time on registration, impossible as well.

If you chose that path, believe me, your nickname “Thai Adventure" would be very appropriate. It certainly would be one…like going around the world in 365 days on a skateboard.

It certainly would be an experience!

Sev,

Your sequence is in basic terms is good. However you're missing "doing your due diligence "and "forming the company" to acquire the assets and goodwill after step 2.

No Need on Step 5 to go to another country to apply for the work permit. You're able to do that in Thailand.

In order to avoid step 3 and going back to the Uk. Our lawyer recommends you can apply in the UK for the non-immigrate visa several weeks before you arrive to start step 1.

"Still.

THB 7200 is still 3.7 times the actual cost from doing it myself. What "bells and whistles" are the other THB 6200 for? Even then, a NIB visa can only be obtained through a Consulate outside Thailand."

I mentioned bells and whistles on forming a company. As for the Non-B... no bells or whistles are needed.  

"They are the government fees, are they not? Vat registration, Tax registration etc."

No. The government charges for VAT registration and tax registration. Lawyers charge for their service. Most people find the VAT registration more detailed and involved than forming a company.

George ...as ever, you are correct...there are circumstances for Non O this isn't one of 'em    

Hi Guys,

I understand what you're saying but the "O" Visa is what the Consulates have been giving our clients.  We just ask for an multi-entry non-immigrant visa and they stamp it "O" I think one person did get an " B" but they have given almost exclusive "O " ...  

From the Thai Consulate..

For the purpose of conducting business in Thailand (not including employment), the visa applicant must include with his or her visa application any such documentation the Consulate deems necessary for consideration of the visa application which includes the following:

1. An original letter of invitation on company letterhead from the business host in Thailand;

2. A copy of the host's Registration of Trade which states the amount of capital investment which is issued by the Department of Commercial Registration with certification by the Department not more than six months earlier;

3. Documentation of the payment of taxes by the business host of the past two years;

4. Any documents that prove you are  traveling for business purposes;

This however is required for an " B" visa

II.  For the purpose of employment in Thailand, the applicant must receive approval from the Ministry concerned , this means that the employer of the applicant must first apply ( by Form WP3) for and receive approval for the applicant's employment through the Alien Occupational Control Division, Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare, Mit-Maitree Road, Dindaeng, Bangkok 10400 - Tel. (662) 617-6578 or 617-6587 / Fax (662) 617-6576, in case of up-country the employer apply through the District Office or the Province Office , Once the approval has been granted, the applicant would then attach  this approval to his or her visa application and submit it to the Consulate.

This is from a e-mail just this past Friday...

Subject: B Visa

Hi,

I need your help. Maybe today was my first "welcome to Thailand".  I went to the Thai consulate to apply for my visa.  They would not even process the package.  They claim I need the following to apply:

Letter from department of employment about work permit

She also rejected the papers in the package from the restaurant and said that the company stamp and signature was not valid.  She needs papers with the original blue stamps from the government agencies.  If they are keeping the originals there then needs to be a certified copy blue stamp also from the issuing or government office.

I tried to explain that I would be evaluating this business and then when I purchased a company the work permit would be applied for under that company.  She gave me a nice smile and handed all of the papers back and pointed at the note for the things I mentioned above.

It seems like the visa process is always a series of circles and you need something from the future before you can get what you need in the present.

Please advise.

------------------------------------------

This from a client who had gotten the letter from the seller and not from us. Sorry to say it had said "B" visa. The catagory "O" visa works better as he does not need the letter of employment. I understand most "O" visas are married to a Thai, dependent, retirement. But they do issue other activities (Category "O") visas for researching businesses. This has happen time and time again for our clients. I feel it's because their is no mention of employment and an "B" visa requires that.

Hi All

It seems that the cost of starting a company is about THB 68000. (I got a couple of quotes).

But!.....These quotes also said that it would cost THB 25000 to get a Non-Immigrant B visa.

In the UK it only costs THB 2000 for a NIB visa if I apply through the consulate. (It's only one form). Is there a similar disparity at the start-up costs for company formation???? Is it worth doing it myself?

Regards

Shaun

All depends on the bells and whisles needed. As for setting up a company, also depends on your registration capital and the government fees they will charge. Basic company setup for a 2 million baht company should run around 50,000 Baht thats including the TAx ID card, Personal Vat, Corp Vat, Company stamp, B visa, work permit and government fees. The B visa included is only 7200 Baht. Several firms advertise 10,000- 15,000 Baht.

why oh why would a Non O visa be this guys salvation

Tourist Visa... is out.  

" B" Visa: In order to get a  ' B" visa, he would need a company to sponsor him for a work permit.  Highly unlikely to get a Thai company to sponsor him if he was not going to work for them. Perhaps his corp in the USA could write a letter, it may work.

A multi-entry " O" Visa however would work.  The sponsor invitation letter does not need to talk about letter of employment in this case. If he’s looking to start a business or buy one, the "O" visa is the correct one to apply for.  If he buys the job by acquiring a business, a “B" visa comes a year later when the “O" visa has expired. In the meantime he can use the "O" visa when applying for the work permit. He has a whole year to be looking at acquiring a  business. With the “O" visa he has no problem going in or out however he must leave on a visa run every 90 days, crossing the boarder and coming back. No need to go to the Consulate after getting the visa the first time.

When a shareholder sells his share or the company changes & new shareholders are now required the Company change costs vary. Again this may depend if the company requires licenses etc.

Our basic fee for this service is 7,500 baht plus VAT plus government fees. Cigarette, Liquor, Food license would be more. Every firm in Thailand is different on prices. We tend to do it as a loss leader as a introduction to businesses available or retail space we have on our books. Our lawyer has been doing this for over 15 years.

Think your best bet at this time is to get a Non - immigration "O" visa. You need a sponsor who will write the invitation letter and provide their shareholder list, tax returns etc.  Our company does it for qualified people interested in possibly acquiring a business. We have found if the applicant applies in their home country with our invite, they normally get a year visa. Here in SE Asia, it's potluck. Singapore for sure just gives 3 months.

In your case, I would reco a trip to Brisbane or the USA will serve your purpose for a multi entry visa. If your USA company wants you to do due diligence on the possibly of acquiring a company and getting legal. We would probably do the invite letter as well. Our lawyer fee is 7,500 for all the paperwork. Hope this helps with your question on getting legal and back into Thailand.

The advantage of being in our business is we get to see companies that are very successful and ones that unfortunately are not. We defiantly see more successful companies as we those tend to be brought to the market and contact us.

I feel accountants have a good insight as well. What I have heard from a number of them who know me, around half of the businesses make money and the other half is losing. I’ve heard variations of that over and over again.

That’s why I feel strongly if you do due diligence, you have a good chance of surviving and making money. When you do acquire a business with clients. Can it still fail? Absolutely and the reason is not everyone is fit to be a manager. No guarantees but you sure put the odds of success on your side.

Can a person make money in Thailand starting up? YES! I've seen that three... richer than they could possibly dream. One man came to Thailand 8 years ago, flat broke with $10,000 from his brother. He started a courier company. He now makes 1 million net profit a month and just built a house worth 40 mil. Paid in cash.

Another  Farang started a export company of antiques and wood products over 12 years ago. He made 5-10 times his money invested every 6 months. Sold out a year ago and has a 40 million baht home as well. Not too many of those houses in Thailand!

Another Farang was flat broke in 1999. He started a massage parlor and now makes over 2 million baht NET profit per year.    

Could and would these businessmen make money in their home country. You better believe it!

As a famous lawyer told me once “people that fail here would fail where they came from. People that do well in their country, do very well here, if they don't get lost in the night scene"

All you have is in life is odds. We try to give people a much better chance in business. I don't know of one business a person acquired from us in the past year that is losing money.  I must add we had one close call. A British guy happily acquired a restaurant using our service. Only wanted to make around 20,000 baht month as he hated to teach English. The business the first three months made around 60,000 baht a month!  He and his girlfriend were at the business most of the time. He then started exporting stuff to England and making 100,000 Baht a week. He started not going to the restaurant some days and that then became weeks. The next month, the restaurant made just 10,000. The last month he broke even.  Our firm sold the business fast for him but 150,000 Baht less as he was motivated to sell and took the first bid. He only made 40,000 baht net  for 5 months but that’s not a lot for his time the first 3 months. On his exporting, he tells me is going great. The long hours got to him and he found a great contact to buy his stuff in England. His feeling was” Two hours a week for 100,000 Baht profit or 70 hours for 15,000 Baht? “He took the two hours. Restaurants are long hours and usually steady profits. Cash flow and clients from day one is a beautiful thing but it still takes hours.

They are law firms who will do the paperwork.  Most range around 10K to 20K. International lawfirms charge 30K and up

Our firms lawyer fee for a work permit is 9,500 Baht. Have not heard anyone lower.

Is it possible to get a workpermit without a lawyer? Anything is possible but the odds of getting it the right the first time, has to be very low!

For a partnership, branch office, joint venture, or limited company, the following documents are required to be notarized by a Notary Public and sent to the Commercial Service office at the Embassy in Bangkok for certification:

A. Articles of Incorporation

B. Bylaws of the Company

C. An Affidavit of the Manager or Corporate Officer, stating the following:

- Name of the Company, registration number, and date of registration.

- Address of registered office.

- Jurisdiction under which the corporation is registered.

- Name, address, nationality, age and race of each director, number of shares held by each, and identification of the director(s) with the power to bind the company.

- Authorized capital of the Company, number of shares and par value of each and amount of paid up capital.

- Total number of shareholders, their nationalities, and number of shares owned or held by them.

For an applying U.S. company that is a subsidiary to a larger, parent company, the applying U.S. company, in addition to the above required documents, must also provide the same required documents pertaining to its parent company to the Commercial Service office at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok.

For an applying U.S. company wishing to invest directly in a Thai company to obtain a majority of the Thai company's shares, the applying company must show notarized proof that the majority of owners and directors of both the applying company and the company to be incorporated are (or will be) U.S. citizens either by birth or naturalization.

Upon receipt of the preceding required documents, the Commercial Service then will prepare a document that certifies to the Thai Department of Commercial Registration of the Ministry of Commerce that the applying business organization is an American owned and managed company and is therefore entitled to national treatment under the provisions of the Treaty.

Welcome to Thailand where the rents on apartments are cheap but to invest in one... Oh Mi Dios! To own a house or land in Bangkok is not cheap!  The Thais are the big spenders! It's supply and demand.

This is a good site to rent from...

http://www.asianapartments.com/thailand/rentals/index.asp

Not at all. Your business in fact has more crediability having a ' white face"  I know several farang that were hired as MD's just to get more sales. Not for their knowledge but the color of their  skin.

Its a Myth about Thais not wanting to do business with Foreigners. Its exact opposite.

I'm investigating whether I save on money and hassle by buying an existing Thai business and using that business as the company 'shell' for my new company.

Probably 59 reasons why to buy an existing business. As I said in my earler post, this however would not be one of the reasons. Because of the hidden liability. We recomend our clients to purchase the assets and goodwill and put it into a brand new corporation.

Now their are exceptions.  Such as when the business already has BOI approval or formed under the Amity Treaty or its a shell company where a foreigner can own it 100% as it was formed before 1972. Then in these cases we recomend after due diligence to transfer shares.

It's far easier to form a company in your case.  by the way, we do it as a value added service.Our fees are only 7,200 Baht plus the government charges.  

One other thing, most all Internet Cafes are not Limited Companies. They fly under the radar.  You’ll find their just Mom and Pop shops that are sole proprietors. They don't want to be in the "system."

Hi Simon,

90% of our buyers acquired a business as a asset purchase. The new owner transfers the assets to their corporation. We do this so many cases; we've set up a separate legal department. Our in-house lawyer has been practicing for over 15 years and has the system of registering to an art.

The reason that we recommend the buyer acquire the assets versus shares is the unknown outstanding liabilities issue and taxes. By the way, we never charge a fee for the buyer using our services on acquiring a business. We now have over 400 companies a person can acquire in Thailand.

Usually on larger complex transactions, we've had a number of share transfers. In these cases, the accounts have been audited by the big name accounting firms and the liability issue on taxes is less of a concern.

The  main reason to acquire a existing business is to put the odds of success on your side.

There are several key advantages to why...

Existing successful businesses have a proven track record of profits that will most likely continue long after the business sale. Now you get to apply your new ideas, expertise, and renewed energy to take the business to even higher profitability.

You will have established customers for immediate cash flow. No suffering through a long start-up period where you struggle to attract customers to your business. Use these customers as a building block for future business growth.

Typically, you will be able to use a business seller's financing of a lportion of the purchase price to maximize your buying potential. You will get more bang for your investment baht!

Although I do not know of any solid statistics that exist anywhere that I can quote, it has been my experience and that of my many business broker colleagues, that the vast majority of profitable businesses that are purchased continue to operate successfully for many years to come. There is no question in my mind that the success rate for new business owners that buy an existing business is much higher than for those who start a newly formed business. This makes good sense. An existing profitable business has already proven that it is successful. As long as you continue to follow the basic business approach, you too should be able to operate the business successfully.

The other senario is starting up and look for vendors, contractors, employees, etc on in a foreign language! Let someone else do the hard work!

Mr. Messenger,

Always two sides of a story. I will be happy to introduce you to MANY foreign businessmen who have done quite well in Thailand. They I'm sure would do well in their Home Land as well. Visa versa, ones who fail, usually would fail in their own country. Too blame Thailand for their failure is a typical excuse.

Call me and if you have an open mind, I'll be happy to show you the " other side of the story" Think you'll be shocked of the money being made.