Kananga

When people continue to talk near me after the first 10 minutes of the movie I just say BLAH BLAH BLAAAAAAH loudly over them whenever they start talking. Always shuts them up by the second go.

It was worse in Singapore so we used to take small water pistols into the cinema and squirt people whenever they started looking at their phones, which seemed to be every 5 minutes. Once some nerd was sat there browsing the web on an iPad. He got an earful of warm tap water. Then he got the message.

Although the Indian man who started talking during the King's anthem once was told to shut up by half the audience. Perhaps they should have it playing softly throughout the movie. Although it would get a bit tiring not being able to sit down.

I strongly support the caning ...you deface an important monument and think its just an act of mischief ?

He is an adult who should have exercised the correct decision making before he did something this silly and stupid.

As for Michael Fay ...after the president clinton's intervention for a "good boy" Singapore reduced the number of strikes to 4 instead of 6 to give the due face value to the USA

The boy returned home , claimed injustice and started to do drugs later in his life and was not convicted based on a technicality of the arrest.

Not exactly the role model he turned out to be ...only thing he should count himself lucky was he was not doing drugs in Singapore as they would hang him ...imagine the amount of indignity and press :-) would be a field day

People are not hanged in Singapore for personal consumption of narcotics.

I suggest that Phil Robertson from whatever self proclaimed "Human Rights" rag-tag bag of clowns he belongs, should mind his own business.

Who is he to try and tell Singapore what to do with Graffiti-spraying Scum? The guy in question defaced a War Memorial and as far as I'm concerned, he got off light.

Some years ago in Singapore they caned a Teenage Vandal, an American who was the son of some reasonably high profile ex-pat. The kid had plastered his Graffiti crap over a car, maybe a couple of cars. There was much screaming from the likes of this Phil Robertson character at the time, but do you know what?

As far as I'm aware, the Culprit never offended again. Yes, bring it on in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK or any other place where these Scum Bags are defacing people's property and getting away with it at the moment.

Top Marks to Singapore and I hope this clown will also be left with a few Cane Marks on his backside to help him remember to behave in future.

Perhaps the so-called "Human Rights" Gentleman should be calling for the Rights of people to NOT have to put up with this sort of behavior.

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

The boy in question was Michael Fay. His father worked for Fed Ex.

There was another kid Michael knew called Shiu Chi Ho, a Hong Kong National. Shiu Chi got caught driving his parents car around town and was taken to the police station as a result. When he was there the police started asking him questions about the recent spates of vandalism that had been happening. So to get himself off the hook he wrote down a list of peoples names. 5 names in total including Michaels.

The police then went to the Singapore American school and arrested the five boys.

Michael had stolen a few construction signs which the police found, which he immediately admitted to.

Michael was then interrogated for 9 days without bail before finally signing a forced confession that he was responsible for the vandalism.

He spent over 80 days in jail in total and received four strokes of the cane.

So lets sum up the FACTS.

Firstly he was never caught vandalising anything. Secondly the only witness to put him in the frame was a kid who had been caught driving his parents car around Singapore at 3am and was looking for leverage to get out of the current trouble he was in. The police found no evidence of Michael causing vandalism. The police kept him in jail for 9 days before forcing a confession out of him as he could not take any more and according him him they were threatening physical violence if he didnt confess.

Now I'm not saying stealing a few road signs doesnt deserve to go unpunished (even when you are just a teenager), but to lock a boy up for over a week without charge or evidence to the crime they forced him to confess to on the sole account of a juvenile that was being held for another charge and then be sentenced to physical punishment and another 4 months in jail is barbaric. Its the very reason that we have democracy so the state can be held accountable when they overstep the boundaries of acceptable moral behaviour, policing methods, judicial boundaries and over the top punishment.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

I read your "anology" of the actual incident, where I find it somewhat fatual, you left out a few tidbits.............these five kids WERE graffiti artists.........and you conveniently left out his 'Tag' on all the cars, street signs, buildings they spay painted............and, and, and the Vietnamese child of a Vietnamese Diplomat that was part of this group that got caned (?) times after his father told authorities that he deserved it.........the only reason Fay was kept so long was (1) he was the ring leader as he was older than the rest (2) his parents raged such a Bull Shi'ite campaign against corporal punishment, got the US Congressman, Senators, and the US Embassy - where I worked - involved , that they tried to stack the deck against Singaporean Govt. Oh, you also forgot to mention the son of a USAID embasy employee that was 'wisked' out of country because of an 'Asthma attack' Hmmmmm don't they have good hospital in Singapore which happens to be the Medivac point for almost all Diplomats in the region....................These my friend are "Facts" not newspaper articles..........Cruel and Inhumane Punishment.............guess your parents never sent you to the back yard to cut a Switch to rack your ass for doing somthing imoral, illegal, or just plain wrong. Oh to the other post, these kids are just like yours, they were not "Scumbags" they were just kids.

guess your parents never sent you to the back yard to cut a Switch to rack your ass - translation?

So what are the facts...he was a thief who took public property which may have put people at risk. He admitted to graffiti yes you can object to this but he did admit it. He did have evidence against him in the form of a statement by the other person.

He got what he deserved and it is no good him complaining about it.

He took a few roadsigns, he is a teenager. He clearly didnt vandalise anything and there was no evidence to suggest he did other than the statement of someone who had been caught braking the law and wanted to get leniency.

I'm not complaining but to suggest that he got what he deserved when he was held without legal representation and without charge for over a week till he confessed as there was no real evidence means you have to be pretty damn stupid to think that.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

Yes, lets debate the facts. The fact he wasnt caught in the act of vandalism, that the police only got his name from a crime causing juvenile and there was no evidence to link him to the crimes is not 'research', they are the facts surrounding the case. If you want to believe otherwise thats your right, but arguing with facts just makes you look like someone who can't accept the truth.

If you want to look at 'research' there is plenty of research to suggest that subjecting people, let alone teenagers to cruel, painful physical punishment and incarceration can lead to behavioral issues. If he hadnt been coerced into signing a confession for a crime there was absolutely no evidence to link him to (which is a fact by the way) then he wouldnt have been subjected to the punishment and the potential behavioral issues that came as a result of it.

Therefore it is an entirely plausible explanation that the violence towards his father and drug abuse is a direct result of being subjected to punishment there was no evidence to link him to.

But lets not let those little details get in the way of a good story shall we?

The Michael Fay case happened in 1994 not worth debating any more

Yet you still keep commenting on it...

Its ok, I know why you dont want to debate it, its because you have actually finally learnt the facts surrounding the case and dont like the fact they are at odds with your opinion of what happened.

No i found out the facts. its not worth debating 20 years later. last comment.

No you didn't. I just gave them to you.

Last comment +1

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

Yes, lets debate the facts. The fact he wasnt caught in the act of vandalism, that the police only got his name from a crime causing juvenile and there was no evidence to link him to the crimes is not 'research', they are the facts surrounding the case. If you want to believe otherwise thats your right, but arguing with facts just makes you look like someone who can't accept the truth.

If you want to look at 'research' there is plenty of research to suggest that subjecting people, let alone teenagers to cruel, painful physical punishment and incarceration can lead to behavioral issues. If he hadnt been coerced into signing a confession for a crime there was absolutely no evidence to link him to (which is a fact by the way) then he wouldnt have been subjected to the punishment and the potential behavioral issues that came as a result of it.

Therefore it is an entirely plausible explanation that the violence towards his father and drug abuse is a direct result of being subjected to punishment there was no evidence to link him to.

But lets not let those little details get in the way of a good story shall we?

The Michael Fay case happened in 1994 not worth debating any more

Yet you still keep commenting on it...

Its ok, I know why you dont want to debate it, its because you have actually finally learnt the facts surrounding the case and dont like the fact they are at odds with your opinion of what happened.

I suggest that Phil Robertson from whatever self proclaimed "Human Rights" rag-tag bag of clowns he belongs, should mind his own business.

Who is he to try and tell Singapore what to do with Graffiti-spraying Scum? The guy in question defaced a War Memorial and as far as I'm concerned, he got off light.

Some years ago in Singapore they caned a Teenage Vandal, an American who was the son of some reasonably high profile ex-pat. The kid had plastered his Graffiti crap over a car, maybe a couple of cars. There was much screaming from the likes of this Phil Robertson character at the time, but do you know what?

As far as I'm aware, the Culprit never offended again. Yes, bring it on in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK or any other place where these Scum Bags are defacing people's property and getting away with it at the moment.

Top Marks to Singapore and I hope this clown will also be left with a few Cane Marks on his backside to help him remember to behave in future.

Perhaps the so-called "Human Rights" Gentleman should be calling for the Rights of people to NOT have to put up with this sort of behavior.

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

The boy in question was Michael Fay. His father worked for Fed Ex.

There was another kid Michael knew called Shiu Chi Ho, a Hong Kong National. Shiu Chi got caught driving his parents car around town and was taken to the police station as a result. When he was there the police started asking him questions about the recent spates of vandalism that had been happening. So to get himself off the hook he wrote down a list of peoples names. 5 names in total including Michaels.

The police then went to the Singapore American school and arrested the five boys.

Michael had stolen a few construction signs which the police found, which he immediately admitted to.

Michael was then interrogated for 9 days without bail before finally signing a forced confession that he was responsible for the vandalism.

He spent over 80 days in jail in total and received four strokes of the cane.

So lets sum up the FACTS.

Firstly he was never caught vandalising anything. Secondly the only witness to put him in the frame was a kid who had been caught driving his parents car around Singapore at 3am and was looking for leverage to get out of the current trouble he was in. The police found no evidence of Michael causing vandalism. The police kept him in jail for 9 days before forcing a confession out of him as he could not take any more and according him him they were threatening physical violence if he didnt confess.

Now I'm not saying stealing a few road signs doesnt deserve to go unpunished (even when you are just a teenager), but to lock a boy up for over a week without charge or evidence to the crime they forced him to confess to on the sole account of a juvenile that was being held for another charge and then be sentenced to physical punishment and another 4 months in jail is barbaric. Its the very reason that we have democracy so the state can be held accountable when they overstep the boundaries of acceptable moral behaviour, policing methods, judicial boundaries and over the top punishment.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Here's a bit you chose to leave out. "The Singapore Embassy received "a flood of letters" from Americans strongly supporting Fay's punishment, and some polls showed a majority of Americans favored it" So (in your opinion) the majority are not capable of critical thinking. Well I'm with the majority.

He had signed a confession, of course they thought he did it. Do you honestly think the government when instructing the ST to run a story about a boy who had confessed to the recent spates of vandalism that they included the bits about not actually catching him, not having any evidence, not giving him access to legal representation and locking him up for 9 days till he confessed? Come on, use your brain.

Because you would really have to know those points to enable some critical thought. I am sure that if those facts were available to the American families at the time they wouldnt have been sending letters. The sad thing is, you are aware of those facts and still think he deserved what he got.

I'm all for punishing offenders and strictly too. Singapore's harsh laws are something that could be taught to many a Western nation, but only if there is overwhelming evidence to suggest the person is actually guilty. Which certainly wasnt the case here.

Look at the policeman giving him a cuddle. <deleted>.

What a shock for this couple, I wish you a speedy recovery Mr Strickleton.

"Look at the policeman giving him a cuddle. <deleted>." What else could be expected? Thai and Thai. As someone else has previously said. "Thai law only helps Thai people". I don't really know but the longer the time I spend here the more this statement proves to be true. Seriously, in all sincerity, I've never ever yet came across something like this, the Thai Law system I'm referring to now. It's rewritten each and every time some injustice of a Thai national is coming to light in setting his injustices straight making it lawfully correct. (Does the Internationally recognised Common Law Legislation bare any whatsoever input here in Thailand or not?).

Of course the sad truth is that after the cuddle for stabbing a tourist in the neck the offender (no doubt out on bail) will be driving his motorbike without a helmet and the cuddly detective will pull him over and extort 300 baht out of him.

This is the trouble when you hear half stories and then make a bit up yourself to sensationalise it. Let me explain what actually happened.

Everyone who has actually researched this case properly has automatically drawn the only logical conclusion that as they had not caught the real culprit they used Michael as a warning to them what would happen if they continued and got caught.

Interesting 'insight' into what 'actually' happened. I guess the 'research' was from what Michael Fay himself told the outside world? How independent is that? Anyway, lets not debate that.

And what happened to Michael after he returned to the US?

He was arrested for beating up his father, for drug abuse, and was in rehab. If he had stayed in an environment like Singapore's, he would have thought very hard before misbehaving like he did shortly after returning to the US.

Yes, lets debate the facts. The fact he wasnt caught in the act of vandalism, that the police only got his name from a crime causing juvenile and there was no evidence to link him to the crimes is not 'research', they are the facts surrounding the case. If you want to believe otherwise thats your right, but arguing with facts just makes you look like someone who can't accept the truth.

If you want to look at 'research' there is plenty of research to suggest that subjecting people, let alone teenagers to cruel, painful physical punishment and incarceration can lead to behavioral issues. If he hadnt been coerced into signing a confession for a crime there was absolutely no evidence to link him to (which is a fact by the way) then he wouldnt have been subjected to the punishment and the potential behavioral issues that came as a result of it.

Therefore it is an entirely plausible explanation that the violence towards his father and drug abuse is a direct result of being subjected to punishment there was no evidence to link him to.

But lets not let those little details get in the way of a good story shall we?

Though this might put things into perspective .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Certainly does! Thailand has a homicide rate over twice the size of Malaysia it's nearest and most direct comparison in the region and a whopping 400% higher rate than the UK where the victim came from.

Thanks!

He knew (or should have known) the punishment for his actions.... If you can't do the punishment, don't do the crime. Think they should do that with litterers in my home country as well as those that vandalize.... it might get through to them quicker than a small fine.....

I don't believe he has said he can't do the punishment.

What the singapore government fail to realise time and time again is that these over the top punishments just end up backfiring on them when it comes to being part of the international community. Alan Shadrake was a prime example of this. The publicity he got after the hilariously over the top reaction to his book made him a best seller on Amazon and highlighted the judicial failings and wrong doings of the government there to a far far wider audience.

This must be another example of this countries unique. Thainess! Will they ever learn?

What does this have to do with Thainess? These sort of vicious murders don't happen elsewhere?

Will they ever learn what? How to be a good (and clearly superior) white man like yourself?

What is it with these people who interpret every news story to fit their narrow vision of this country? Save it for your bar stool, pal. Most of the people on these forums are sick of this condescending racist rubbish.

Another person who thinks the Thai government and all things Thai are perfect.

You miss the point completely. Why does Thailand insist on letting people out on bail who should never see the light of day again. Do you remember that couple up north who enslaved, burnt and tortured that poor little girl for something like 5 years. That couple should have NEVER been let loose on bail. When they were let loose on bail they disappeared. What a frick'in surprise. Never heard another word about that case.

Most accused murderers are not let out on bail in the West unless the case is weak or the bail is set so high they can't make it or they are under house confinement with an ankle bracelet. This country has a long way to go, before they start doing the right thing when it comes to violent criminals. But wait, this man was already convicted. Murderers are NEVER let out on bail in the West once they have been convicted as this man had been. All criminals must remain in custody until they are freed on a successful appeal.

Your assumption that I think all things Thai are perfect - especially the government - is completely misinformed and clearly came straight from your rectum. (Where did you get "government" from? Who said anything about that? Not me.) I've been here 20 years, I am well aware of what the deal is, and yeah this country has its flaws, perhaps more than some.

Stances on Thailand and its people are not limited to the two primary polarized views of: 1. They are all evil, sneaky and stupid and inferior to us white guys or 2. All Thais are perfect, smiling lovely people who can do no wrong... Opinions can be more considered and less bigoted than either of the above. But attack a racist remark on this forum and there is always at least one clown who will accuse the poster of being a "Thai lover" ... let's imagine we are in the deep south in 1950s USA and swap the word "Thai" for "N----r". Takes on a different flavour, doesn't it?

The poster I was responding to mentioned nothing about bail - he was just bashing a whole race, as far too many people do on these forums at every opportunity, for reasons best know to their embittered selves. If someone criticised the bail system here, I wouldn't have responded that way. This guy's remarks were condescending, referenced nothing specific, presented no reasoned argument and had no value whatsoever. He was basically just saying: "Thais are crap, and I know better" end of story.

And murderers NEVER get bail in the west? Try doing a little research on that one instead of once again talking out the wrong end. Zimmerman got bail, for starters. It is up to the judge and the circumstances. Do Thai courts grant bail to too many people who shouldn't get it, in my opinion? Absolutely. But I wouldn't pin that on every person born Thai. I am sure you could find more than a few Thais who also think it is a bad policy.

When will these bigoted posters ever learn, eh?

You've been here 20 years and you think 'Thai' is a race. I assume part of those 20 years were spent in the local education system?

How ironic a muslin advocating for "democracy". They should have this law in every country. Great about Singapore is that anyone can go and watch it.

Can go watch what?

Having lived in Singapore for 10 years I can only say their methods work. Pretty sure a lot of the anti-social troubles in Western countries could be solved with more corporal punishment.

Their country, their rules. Their citizens seem happy with it.. That is democracy in action.

Well they may agree with it, but its hardly democracy. Citizens turn out in force in Saudi to watch poor people getting their hands cut off after stealing some food to feed their starving kids. Hardly democracy in action.

Anyway, with a little critical thought applied to this situation instead of immediately screeching for botty blood you may draw the conclusion that the war memorial was chosen as the people who died for Singapore did so for its freedom against dictatorship and forced rule, which the current and only government since its independence pisses all over with its flagrant abuse of power when it comes to allowing a level political playing field. For many people that is a massive insult to the sacrifices of those who died for their country fighting for freedom from oppression.

Stifling opposition by using the judiciary to bankrupt political opponents on account of trumped up defamation suits, the mainstream media being little more than a state controlled mouthpiece and high level nepotism is hardly democracy in action.

I also lived in Singapore for many years and the discontent among the population towards the government was very common. When the old man finally snuffs it you will see a lot of changes there.

Thai Recession syndrome is spreading to the thais. They lashed out to us falangs.

A speedy recovery to the injured man.

What Thai recession?

So Thais are lashing out at English or Americans because their economies are great? Get Real.

This one http://dawn.com/news/1038992/thailands-recession-deepens Still laughing?

I think he mean't that Thais are lashing out because the cost of living here is going through the roof. Many Thais can't afford basic commodities and they take this frustration out on foreigners who can afford to go to other countries.

Of course this is a Thai site and the focus is upon all thinbgs Thai, but I am glad I am Australian. We are so much better than the Thais. We never rip each other off, nor do the dirty on one another.

A good example is that the Law Council in Australia has been calling for urgent changes to Power of Attorney Laws in Australia for a some years now, it is, in fact, one of THE most prolific crimes in Australia today, family members, sons, daughters ripping off their elderly parents - Especially when it comes to property and embezzlement

Or the hidden money market in Australia. Recent statistics reveal estimations that Australians owe at least 6 Billion Dollars to another another (pop: 23 Mil). Family and friends borrowing money from each other that is never paid back and with no intention to do so ever.

Money does bad things to people and the Thais certainly don't have a monopoly on this phenomena.

For every Thai 'horror' story I can go to the farang news sites and read a dozen. But I guess getting ripped off in your own language is alot less sensational.

Criminal behaviour must be genetic after all.

no wonder most of the thais hate us or dont wont anything to do with us .idiots like this seem to be a dime a dozen in LOS these days

Sent from my LT26i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The majority of Thais hate you and everyone else who isn't like them because someone from Italy stole 100 baht when he was down on his luck?

Think you need to re-evaluate reality a little old boy.

To be honest I dont think these stories are dime a dozen. Stories that are dime a dozen are vicious physical assaults by Thais. Corruption by Thais including their police force, scams and thefts by Thais. Needlessdeaths on the roads caused by reckless driving by Thais. Now those are dime a dozen.

My wife's grandfather had a lovely big teak Thai house he built over a number of years. He also liked a drink by all accounts. His wife's brother knowing this got him blind drunk one night and tricked him into signing his house over to him and then kicked him out the next day. His own sister and brother in law. I hear stories like this regularly in Thailand. There are some truly horrible people here. And yes, you get horrible people everywhere but nowhere near this extent. With the government, police force, judiciary and countless stories of people like this I am really beginning to believe that Thailand is rotten to the core.

Nice story, but you simply can't transfer your property in this manner.

Apparently in days gone past you could. This was 40 years ago according to my wife. Of course she could have made up and lied because she is Thai and its ingrained in their culture. Either way, I make my point.

My wife's grandfather had a lovely big teak Thai house he built over a number of years. He also liked a drink by all accounts. His wife's brother knowing this got him blind drunk one night and tricked him into signing his house over to him and then kicked him out the next day. His own sister and brother in law. I hear stories like this regularly in Thailand. There are some truly horrible people here. And yes, you get horrible people everywhere but nowhere near this extent. With the government, police force, judiciary and countless stories of people like this I am really beginning to believe that Thailand is rotten to the core.

Thai basher !

Correction - Rotten Thai basher.

The guy who sells me pineapple every day for 10 baht is ok.

Its only some extra green curry for export (to go with all the yummy rice) that fell off a boat. Nothing to worry about here.

My wife's grandfather had a lovely big teak Thai house he built over a number of years. He also liked a drink by all accounts. His wife's brother knowing this got him blind drunk one night and tricked him into signing his house over to him and then kicked him out the next day. His own sister and brother in law. I hear stories like this regularly in Thailand. There are some truly horrible people here. And yes, you get horrible people everywhere but nowhere near this extent. With the government, police force, judiciary and countless stories of people like this I am really beginning to believe that Thailand is rotten to the core.