blam

My first visit here was over 25 years ago, and I have lived here most of the time now for the last 20 years; 19 years in the North, now in Phuket. I am proud to say that I have given this country and local communities far more than I have ever taken.

Thailand before Thaksin? Does anyone remember?

Thaksin has destroyed this country. Fascism in the name of progress. What we see now is a ghost, or just a shell, of what Thailand was 10 years ago. Thaksin's form of democracy made democracy into a terrible thing; absolute power corrupts absolutely. There was no real democracy at all, the 'landslide' votes were generated by a fantastically well financed and organized roots level money distribution and propaganda machine.

Someone mentioned that the coup, and the lead up to it, were financed by the alcohol and tobacco industries. Of course they were just an example of those who were opposed to the TRT, BUT the sheer amounts of corruption by Thai Rak Thai, and the amount of uncontestable control mongering, became simply astounding, overwhelming, and impossible to ignore. I'm talking about the sheer amounts of money generated, and accrued, by the fellow school classmates of Thaksin, his cabinet members, the TRT party heads, Thaksin's family,and the Thai/Chinese community in general, it is completely beyond belief, and actually had become illegal to question. The rich get so rich that they can pay the poor to vote for them and carry their flag, it's just that simple.

These guys that pulled the transition: They knew what they were doing, they knew who would support them, and it seems to me today that they realized how to do it in the least harmful way. They did their homework and the timing was perfect. There is huge public support at the moment.

I for one, as a very long term Thailand resident, hope that the Thaksin years will become a distant reminder of how someone can corruptively control not just government, but basically everything, to generate even more wealth and power... if he has enough money to pay for it. It's an old story throughout history of course. This time it's our legacy to repair.

I admire the people that finally stood up to say, 'I've had enough and I can't take it any more!" A totally corrupt democracy is not a democracy at all. If someone has anything to say about that, I will just say that you haven't lived here in Prathet Thai long enough to know what you are talking about. Thailand WILL become a better place. Mark my words. Fear not, the road to true democracy has begun.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

In '91...

That's a massive telescoping of events.

Oh, my post was edited, some lead content removed. That's OK.

I was making a positive point about the King, but you are absolutely right Richard W. I'm old, was in Chiang Mai at the time, and yes everything seems compressed from those days.

......

This country is no stranger to this stuff. In '91 it was more of a surprise but somewhat similar. After a few days the overthrow action itself was unaccepted by the general public and the Army guys were tossed. My guess it will be close to the same this time. Big wake up call for the vote buying camps though. What I'm getting here in Phuket is a 'ching ching law?'... a sigh of relief, then total ambivalence. Both sides had better get their kneepads ready, the King will be expecting them.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

After all of the balls have been thrown into the air so haphazardly by the Thai government; just remember, madman/genius Sir Isaac Newton, the man that penned the most important laws the world has ever known, before, now, and after we pass on to the great divide, said... "the entire universe is made up of basically two things, hydrogen and ignorance." Yes guys. So here we are in Thailand 2006, samples of both.

These new Thai laws are nothing, absolutely nothing.

Sure, we feel lost, dejected, and without direction when the country where we live, work, and love rejects us. (Anterior singulate part of the brain.) We will figure a way around his minor visa bump in the road, we always have and we always will.

Reality check, This IS Thailand. Yes it is, and don't we love it? When you finally do encounter that immigration official in Ranong, Mae Sai, Chiang Khong, (groan) or wherever, SMILE, don't say or do anything, just SMILE, and watch what happens. Just make sure you have a real visa in your passport. That's all there is to it.

Hmm bkkrez,

I believe it's this way: If you do happen to get a tourist visa for the US it's 6 months, but this one is easily extended to a year. Any excuse seems to function in your favor, such as 'analysis and comparison of sea shells on the seashore.'

For Canada it's pretty close to that, but you have to show that you have resources and a few resident letters.

For both countries the visa award is very subjective, the easiest hit being in Chiang Mai. Usually a half hour interview, a bank statement, some family pictures, and a couple of sponsor letters will do the job.

If you are a Thai teacher and want to visit either the US or Canada, you can pretty much only go on a group tour, and even that must be applied for a year in advance. (Teachers have a bad reputation of becoming waiters and waitresses in Thai restaurants and never going home, that's perfectly fine by me as long as they are not being taken advantage of by the Thai owners, which is frequently the case.)

It's pretty hard to compare any other visa regulations to the Thai model. Thailand has been frantically waving the tourism flag for more than 20 years now. Thai Airways 'Smooth as silk' thing has been going forever. "Amazing Thailand", "Unseen Thailand", "The Land of Smiles Awaits You". OK yep that's fine for attracting the short term tourist.

Where I have a problem is how they have been shopping the investment and long term visa market like mad, this is a Thai deal, not a farang thing at all. Thaksin has taken trips to Bangladesh, India, and the US shouting out for business and personal investment opportunists that are looking for a place to live and invest. Now they up the ante and say you have 2 weeks to jump or fork over a heck of a lot more money, "Oh I know let's hike that figure by say 250%, they'll pay, for sure they'll pay." (Right) One hour direct flights from India and Bangladesh into Chiang Mai, VAT breaks, lots of other benefits, with low risk being the key. Now they fiddle with it and piss everybody off, hey it's too much like Viet Nam if you ask me, say one thing and do another.

The "crackdown" on visas is most definitely is related to negative press concerning heretofore explained local events over the last 2 months. If the ruling party is re-elected I see more major visa problems for the future. There will be NOTHING STOPPING THEM.

Again this has absolutely nothing to do with the Thai people, God I love these people with all my heart, it has everything to do with the ruling government, Thai Rak Thai.

Certainly this is way off topic here.

Chuan Leekpai brought more real agrarian growth, and more International support to the Kingdom than Thaksin could ever dream of, I miss those days. All of the allegations that origially brought Chuan down, were, in the end, unfounded and just a political shaft job by TRT.

Chiang Mai has been hurt financially by many of Thaksin's arbitrary dreamy lawmaking. Dreams are one thing, reality is another. Just ask George W. Bush.

Let's continue this soon, shall we?

vodabury,

Ahem, I only moved to Phuket a year ago. Owned a home (teak) in inner Chiang Mai, Amphur Muang, for 16 years. Owned 32 rai of land in Lamphun. Kept a working office in Chiang Rai for 8 years. Have owned businesses, raised Thai kids (both now at CMU) and have bought and sold more cars than most Bangkok people own in a lifetime.

I created,worked with, and directly supported the hilltribe coffee growing projects with the 'King's Royal Projects' in Doi Wawi, Doi Chang, Doi Thung, (Chiang Rai) and, in Doi Om Koi (Tak) for over 14 years.

At this point some of you may know who I am, so be it.

I know that a lot of CM people still love Thaksin, he is a Chiang Mai homeboy, but there are many more who have formed a distaste for his obtuse selfishness.

Think again please vodabury.

My guess is that most of you people on this board do not speak Thai, if you do, maybe you can handle a fifty word vocabulary at best. I am not flaming you with my posts I am trying to make you understand the bottom line, maybe with a sense of humor. But Thai level, here it is:

If you spoke Thai you would understand that most of this country no longer supports the schitzophrenic movement of the Thai Rak Thai ruling party, no they don't, not any more. The extra judicial murders (known 4000, 10k is the accepted figure) during the cessation of ya-ba days was a shock to the Thai sensibilty. The corrupt construction contracts in the North were something they were used to, but 4 superhiways around a city that only needed one? Thai/Chinese contractors? Yep, they wonder a lot about that. (Thaksin is Thai/Chinese) The election commitee tampering, where 4 TRT supporters go to jail for not investigating fraud? The non payment of a massive amount of income tax by the Shinawatras? And of course, the switching of local military control to police control in the south, creating the bipolar effect we have now, i.e. bombs. (Thaksin is a big believer in police control, after all he is a 30 year cop.)

TRT has screwed up this country. If you need some correction on what the Thais think: this country IS NOT RUN BY THE THAI PEOPLE, it is run by Thai Rak Thai party. TRT is getting away with everything it wants without portfolio, and when something doesn't go their way they blame the press or the farangs. End of story. TRT vote buying strategies are already in place in all of the poor tambons in the country, because of this they will most probably win again. Thai people would not want you to know how it works, but there it is. People vote with their wallets 100% of the time.

Now. Tell me, who will buy the new condos in Chiang Mai and Phuket that Thaksin directly supported? Who is going to plunk down 10 million baht ($250,000 US) in hard currency for a retirement home w/visa in a schiziod and questionably controlled 'developing country? Big ideas, big plans, but hello they aren't selling, and the bathrooms are going to rust to rot before anyone is going to buy into this mess.

When you guys bloat up and start talking about the Thais want it this way, and the Thais want it that way... if you don't speak Thai, you know nothing of what you speak. You do however know what the ruling party wants, you know that for sure. Everyone I talk to, every one I know all over the country is sick and tired of the control issue. The educated Thai population wants Thai Rak Thai out, and out now. This visa issue is not a big thing, but it is ANOTHER thing that the Thai population is not happy about.

So, that's what it's all about here, control. Learn Thai, stop blither blathering with your farang buddies, stop pretending to know, TALK to the THAI people here. Educate yourselves on reality. And again... bendix and nuffsaid, stop it, just stop. Your high and mighty rhetoric is best served in your own homes. You don't have a clue what is really going on at ground level Thailand and you probably never will.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Oh boy am I slow or what? I'm too old, otherwise I would have picked up on this one myself. Batteries must be getting low again, guess I'm too stressed out. Bad trigger finger, bad.

So today I've been discussing the visa situation with many local Thai friends and acquaintances. Sunday is a great day here in Phuket, lots of Thai families go to the beach for sum tum gai yang. The Thais all seem to know about the fatalistic game of political hopscotch that is being played out right now; and, they all seem to have a VERY negative opinion of the people manifesting the changes in the visa/condo laws, (IT IS NOT THE FARANG'S FAULT.) One girl said, and I quote (this is classic) "How could this possibly be about farangs not paying their taxes? Prime Minister Thaksin didn't pay his two thousand million baht in taxes! HOW COULD IT BE ABOUT TAXES?"

Is that rich or what?

Again, I reiterate, this entire scenario is predicated on the fact that the national election is only 5 weeks, or so, away. In the 1989 elections, farangs were told to lay low... and we did.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Bendix and nuffsaid, get off of your high horses and get into the street level of this thing.

LMAO.

No, I like the view from my high horse, thank you.

Oh for heaven's sake komrad bendix.

Why are you in this forum if it doesn't concern you? Go out and play in the street like a good boy, just don't let the bad old Bangkok street dogs bite yer ass as you leave Starbucks.

BTW, 25 years ago, when the domestic terminal was the only terminal in Kreung Thep. All of the Thai men in the packed coffee shop were NOT drinking coffee, no they were quaffing Singha, Kloster, and Amarit... and huffing cigarettes at a nasty clip, at 6:30 in the morning! (I have these cool old vhs movies to prove it.) Maybe that's why Thai kids are so messed up now... (ala Thaksin? Oh wait, he was living in Amerika learning his kraft at the time.)

You like being the snot nosed ruffle-shirted kid with the chocolate stains on your cheek bendix? We used to beat the crap out of guys like you in Vancouver just for the short time entertainment value. We all got rich, the snot nosed kid ended up selling cars at his daddy's car dealership. You sound like the same type.

Back to the visa issue, I understand now that:

They will be very subjective at each and every border entry, air, boat, or ground, it seems to make no difference, and you are purely at the whim of the officer you happen to choose. I have so much crap in my passport, it's stuffed with: places that are questionable (Colombia, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.,) a couple of Thai overstays, a bunch of different kinds of USED full page Thai visa stickers, and maybe 20 VOAs and visa runs (especially lately.) My guess is that it's time to burn my PP and run to the Canadian Consulate saying it was eaten by my puppy 'bendix', get a new PP, and let myself be a virgin again. What say?

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Bendix and nuffsaid are Russian, it's pretty obvious. All the ideas dogmatic, the presumptions pseudo pragmatic, and the level of understanding sophmoric. Typical Leninist downtrodders.

You guys really need to stop kludging everything to fit your high nose weak dynamics and unselfishly step more into the reality of the situation. We really don't care at all about your hiso opinions of yourselves. This visa situation is about to become an international stigma on the country of Thailand.

It's say one thing, do another. Yep that's OK for Viet Nam or Pakistan, but Thailand? Wake up call!

...

FYI, the Thais have backpedaled on grandfathering 3 million baht condo visas. If you gottee you gottee and will contine to receive your annual 1 yr visa. After 01/10/06 it's 10 million.

The typical work permit setup requires 2000 baht in taxes each month. Now, if Thai immigraition were to say "you can have as many visa runs as you want, we take your picture, your thumbprint, and require 4000 baht a month". This makes more sense.

Yes, this has more to do with shaking the election year tree, I know, I've seen plenty of elections. Also been through a coup, a financial fall, and a couple of student assasinations. This just another bunch of smoke from a fire, this time lit by Thaksin. Of course they don't want to inform their own people so they can prepare for the storm. What they don't know won't hurt them. Thank you Mr. Caretaker.

...

I called the Thai Consulate in Penang yesterday, spoke very polite Thai, and was able to talk directly with the deputy. Yes I can get a regular visa, no I cannot get multiple entries. If anyone here wants to call them, you can too: +6042268029. No need to email, they don't reply. No, the consulate had absolutely no idea why this instruction set was implemented at this time. None. Something about Burmese maybe, that's it.

...

Also, for your information. Money...tax money. Thaksin has done nothing to help finance the Tsunami Health Center for Children in Surat Thani, and it is now closing its doors. All of the money was originally donated and funded by farangs and was to be matched by the Thai government, so where's the money? "We want farang money to take care of it", that's where. Well OK, but wait, there is a ton of Thai tax money going into the failed 'Night Safari' in Chiang Mai (Another of Thaksin's failed pet disasters.) <deleted> is going on here? They need the farang tax money? Whoa, yeah right, right.

This boondoggle will be another another unmitigated disaster. I can just see the meeting today, "I know, let's do this now..."

Bendix and nuffsaid, get off of your high horses and get into the street level of this thing.

Now here is something that every Thai person in the world should read. They might only care if this all goes away. The new visa rulings will surely pack a major impact on everybody's lives here:

Also, for all the posters here, please read this! This is us, the farang community:

Brilliantly said F1 Visa Runner!

Spent on what?

Rental contracts, private and ltd comapnies operated

In every thinkable small shop or shopping centre buying all kind of things you need

Lots of thai products in Chiang mai

Phantip plaza

Nana plaza

Most thai people owned restaurants

Buying new and used motorbikes

Buying cars

Fillling them up with gasoline

Repair shops

Giving my ex-girlfriend a 500.000 b business which now gives her approx 10.000 b a day in profit.

My ex-gf is employing 10 thais because of this

My ex-gf family

Park fees

Visa extensions

Skytrain

VIP bus companies

Accomodation everywere in Thailand

Beach chairs

...... and the list goes on forever.

Its all spent widely on all the small people to big ltd companies like Honda that pays a lot of revenue tax.

This money is no everywhere in the thai system.

Doesn`t matter where in the system the money is now but the money being in the thais system for sure matters!

As the above shows this is also the fact of many being here on tourist conditions. It has been simple and easy being here which also means its simple and easy to break out if you have had enough. If the system wasn`t like this and I dont know if I would be here in the first place.

I belive this 15 million brought in by me matters

Now I dont got much of a chioce though as we are soon waiting for our first "luk krung"

F1 Visa Runner! Thank you for reminding me.

And a big huge congratulations to you!

New baby = Movie star, TV star, Prime Minister? Best of luck to you and your new family!

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Hi Gonzo the Face,

Guess you haven't been here for very long, say over 10 years> more? Please do yourself, and your Thai people here, a huge favor; read 'Sri Tononchai'. It is required reading for every Thai kid, they respect this guy as a master of masters. Ever wonder where the term 'white elephant' came from? Well now you'll know.

The money I spent is just money, money is a tool. And, yes, you had better believe that I do know wheverof that I speak. I've been here a long time, seen the inner workings first hand. Shelled out baskshish first hand, it takes a while to get to that level. Friends tell me to write a book.

Believe it, there is an ulterior motive in this visa thing. A lot of it is about saving face for the Karr deal, but there is much more. Swedes in Phuket, Russians in Ko Samui, Germans in Chiang Rai, major crooks, and they all have lead to the demise of the Thai visa as we know it. Oh, you didn't know about those guys? Clue yourself.

Election time, get ready to duck or run for cover or both.

Again, please read 'Sri Tononchai'.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Hey francois!

How's about we turn off the electricity from 1-5pm and close the gas stations at 6pm. Oh yeah, that's Burma, sorry. Everything else you mentioned was Burma, so I just thought...

Hey I know, no ice making at night! That makes about as much sense.

...

On a lighter note. The 15-17 foreign owned corporations that were told to stop building their new Tescos, Carrefours, BigCs, 7-11s, etc. have told the "caretaking" ruling party to go eff themselves. Let's see how that plays out.

Also, today, a (small) Swiss investor shifting 225 million Baht into Thailand for business purposes has dropped out of his hotel backing deal here in Phuket. 'Too risky' were his exact words. I guess that's just chump money for the Thais. Another read my lips, No backpackers!

'Forbes' Magazine, of the USA, was one of the first media conglomerates to get their hands on this bit of visa news, and is now mulling whether to give a 'cautionary' flag to Thailand for the tourist/business travel sector.

TRT is throwing out the baby with the bath water. Get ready for the economic hit Thailand! Bar owners, teachers, dive instructors, indeed. What a stinking cesspool of BS that is.

Blame the farangs! Taksin's favorite motto.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

Point taken madi.

There is a reason why Taksin's closest friends now are the military junta leaders of Myanmar. Mr. Taksin and Mr. Than Shwe seem to have a lot in common these days. I blame the problem directly on TRT, not the Thai people. Thailand is a 3rd world country and was going under the right direction under Chuan Leekpai, that's a fact. Land holding transparency was indeed an issue, but corruption at the very highest level was not.

My old GF's dad used to have parties at his house every night during the election period, everybody would get completely drunk. Before they staggered home, the party attendees would receive an envelope, inside would be a little cash, (very little in fact, maybe 200B depending.) The happy, envelope carrying, people knew who to vote for. This has not changed, nor do I expect it to.

I just wish that Mr. Taksin, his Chinese family, and all his gangster buddies in Chiang Mai, would stop trying to turn this country into (read my lips) Burma.

Blame the farangs for everything, that's Taksin's motto.

I started doing monthly visa runs when the head immigration lady in Chiang Mai became completely unbearable. Indians and Bangladeshis were are walk through, Canadians had to plan on an entire day, every 3 months, no matter what visa I was carrying in my PP.

This IS their country madi, but I wish they would play the game as fairly with themselves as they do with us.

Blame the farangs for everything, that's Taksin's motto. We do not deserve it.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

This goes directly at madi.

I am old, from BC, Canada and I have lived here in Thailand for over 20 years. In Chiang Mai for 15 yrs, now in Phuket. I have dumped some 50 million Baht into this country, via GF's, land holdings, business workings, Hill Tribe assistance, NGO assistance, etc, etc, etc. Thai immigration laws are insane, they always have been. It's a pain to deal with, on any level.

OK:

<deleted> are you talking about madi? The law is broken at every level, and in every sector, of this country; every second, of every minute of every hour of every day. Law breaking and corruption from the top down. From Taksin and the Chiang Mai construction contracts, to the 34,000 bar/massage girls going short time... from the level 17 Law proffesor signing to release an arrestee that's going to jump bail (wink wink,) to the late night BKK pimp tuk tuk driver. This country is all about breaking the law. Period.

You want to set an example madi? Do it in a place that understands the law. Thailand makes the words 'flim flam' a certainty, not just wishful thinking.

This visa thing is just another shuck and jive smoke screen, and the farangs will have to bear the BS. Blame the farangs, that's Taksin's motto.

Please read 'Sri Thononchai' madi; until you do, you ain't gotta clue, not one.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

This is long, I apologise. I am not a poster, but read it all the time. Here goes:

I am one of the people they are trying to catch, or actually, to try to make legal. Thing with me is, I bought a house in BC, Canada 30 years ago, I rent it out, it gives me an income. I am too old to do much of anything anymore, and I don't have much cash laying around. There are lots of us in Thailand.

I live in Phuket and make visa runs every month, have been here 20 years. The situation has not always been like this, but, circumstances rule here. I have dumped approximately 50 million (new and old) Baht into the country via GF's, businesses, land and home holdings, etc. Immigration is a pain, whether I've had an 'O','B", or Tourist, a work permit or not; immigration has always been a pain. The Thais try to inflate their self worth by creating some garbage visa rulings. In the end, good old corruption wins out every time. For the last 2 or 3 years it's just been easier to make the monthly runs.

A few observations lately:

=There are lots of farangs living here in Phuket. MOST of them are Northen Europe, many from India & Bangladesh; and from what I gather, a high percentage of these people are living off their Mummy & Daddy's money, no matter what BS story they are choosing to use this month. These are the guys are so amazingly self righteous that they can tell other peope to 'get a job', or 'you are a guest in this country, or 'follow the rules' crapola.

=There have been some major busts lately. Russians in Samui, Swedes in Phuket, Germans in Chiang Rai. They were living large, had hung themselves out for all to see, and in the end got caught. Drugs, money laundering, drug-bust runaways, etc. The Thais credited themselves for the hard work to catch these guys, but in the end the criminals were just plain stupid. Normal people here in Thailand living a clean simple life on a low income are the ones that will be caught up in the tsunami aftermath. We do not leech anything from Thai society, we give, and we give lots.

=The Burmese immigration departments have upgraded all of their standards, they take pictures and do computer entry for each and every individual. This makes the Thais look like lazy dunderheads. It's still backwards and funny, but Myanmar is making an effort. The Thai system in Ranong has always looked like a bad black & white movie from the 1950's, everybody looks like a crook, and it's a joke the way they do their jobs. Well, it's going to get a lot worse.

=The elections are right around the corner. Farangs all know that the votes are bought and paid for. We also make a ton of noise when it looks like the election process is as filthy and stinky as a Bangkok sewer. So, election time is always a time of crackdowns on long term tourists. Why? Easy answer, they gotta fire a few rounds over our heads to keep us down.

...

The new visa rulings really shook me, man I took the news hard... for about 3 minutes. You have to look at the money, here in Thailand ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY. The new airport exit fees are going to be 1000 Baht, (they wanted it to be 2000B) and guess what? If you want to play the visa game now, you will have to fly somewhere, KL, Singapore... somewhere. They are raising the rates for standard tourist visas again too, the rates for multiple entries as well, Air Asia is raising its rates etc, etc, on and on ad nauseum.

It's a matter of watching and waiting. Go somewhere and get a real tourist visa just to buy yourself some time. Be assured that Thai Rak Thai will be re-elected. Watch the price of oil and consumer goods go sky high. Watch the big foreign corporations all move to Malaysia. Just keep quiet for now, and for heaven's sake, lay low. Do not bring any major investment money into this county for a while. From experience, things will get better when it all calms down. Again.

Sorry this was so long.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket.

Rented it on tape in the States 3 years ago, ripped it to the computer hardrive via video capture card, then made it into a Divx AVI. Split it onto 2 CDs.

Loved it. Still do.

Yes indeed, Fon is truly the girl of my dreams.