caphant

and if one drops the money, and just look at the diesel power, ad 12k baht for a racechip.de and have 178hp/405Nm through a 6 speed dsg with no converter loss, its hard to find a 2 million baht new car faster.

just wish it had been in a mondeo estate body at 1,2 million baht

I'll keep wishing with you

While there's an outside chance we might see the Mondeo in Thailand yet (TH is a hot prospect for export market manufacturing of it), the chances of us seeing an estate version are pretty darn slim

even the focus estate would do

Must admot I almost fell in love the other day. carshow at central Phuket, bmw 520d estate. In white with black glass, black glass dual sunroofs and all black interior. 19inchers and full package at 3.850.000 baht

back to the real world, If I would spend this silly money on a car, I would have moved up to 525d to get the 3,0

Lol yeah i like the new 3 series, the 5 sounds very nice with the 19" and dual sunroofs (that be nice to get dual sunroof on the new escape)...knowing what other people pay overseas keeps me from buying new imports though, same goes for some electronics the Sony td10 3d camcorder my brother checked for me the other day for 60k, will buy it for 35k in USA on a stopover home to LOS next week.

Yes its a shame there is such high tarrifs on imports, as i said before, whilst this encourages manufacturers to assemble their cars in Thailand, the artificial lack of competiton from foreign car makers (above the natural competitve advantage of domestics not paying the logistics/shipping costs) makes for a domestically produced car industry which is content to miss models (ford escape) or facelift their platforms more times than goldie hawn, shame mediocrity is rewarded and i sometimes wonder how much better the consumer experience would be if LOS benefited from more competition. I could afford an import but what id pay in service fees, parts, inconvienance of repairs out of bkk, and paying 2 or more times the MSRP, id rather go with a local LOS or ASEAN made car. Depreciation curves also annoying for those willing to buy preowned, only within the last 2 years has the toyota supra gotten just north of 1mil, used to be 2mil plus, nsx's at just shy of 3mill is obscene when compared to their price in Aus or North America.

Not familiar with the current tarrifs in Malaysia but remember it being crazy many years ago, crazy enough to make people buy protons!

you have to calculate how many kms your going to be doing to get the servicing and fuel incentive of oilers, i heard the mazda3 and ford focus run on subsidized e20 though im not sure.

There's not much to gain in using E20 - what you save at the pump (~3%) is largely negated by it's poorer fuel effieciency. Even E85 (which is massively subsidized) has a hard time stacking up against E10 91 RON, which in turn has a hard time stacking up against benzene 91 RON, given the current state of the oil fund...

But anyways, let's do some calcs

Something like a Mazda 3 2.0L 5AT gets 8.85KM/L around town, which on E10 91 RON equates to 3.62 Baht per KM.

The Focus 2.0L TDCi gets 14.5KM/L around town, which equates to 2.01 Baht per KM.

So the Mazda3 2.0L 5AT costs 1.61 Baht more per KM in city driving than a Focus 2.0L TDCI 6AT.

You can do you own math on that based on the KM's you'd travel over it's lifetime, bering in mind that the gap will only ever widen, not lessen.

Here's how it'd work out for me:

Based on my around town usage (25K per year) that means the Focus is 40,250 Baht cheaper to run, every year.

Multiply that by 3 years (the max. I'd ever own a car) and it's 120,750 Baht saved.

Now compare purchase prices:

Mazda3 2.0L 5AT: 1.064M

Focus 2.0L 6AT TDCi: 0.999M

So before resale, the Focus would have cost me 185,750 less, or if you want to look at it monthly, 5,159.72 Baht per month cheaper.

There's absolutely no way the Mazda3 make anything close to that up on resale (if indeed it would make up anything at all).

So if I were in the market for a larger hatchback, it would be a no brainer. (I'm not though )

And let's not forget the current low gasoline prices have less than 9 months to go, then they'll rocketing back up again - but diesel will always be (relatively) cheap.

Just my 2 satang

Thanks for that, i was going to do the numbers once i got home from work, I havent yet looked at the fuel prices for gasahol as i usually just fill up with the vpower at shell for my diesel truck and use benzine 91 for the escape as the difference in fuel price was negligible, hence i never even used the b5 for the truck. I too have a brain last i checked and agree I wouldnt EVER get the mazda3 new over the focus diesel as the fuel economy and savings even over 3 yr ownership is considerable enough to offset mazdas tendency to fetch a higher resale.

My bad for not specifying i was refering to the other thread where someone was considering a preowned mazda3 at 650k (which i feel is overpriced as ive offered few months ago 500k for a cash sale on a top spec 2.0 hatch with moonroof 6airbags (not 2 like focus) and under 70k km. It was my understanding that the unavailable 2.3 i enjoyed in australia was the one mated to a 5spd AT, whilst the 2.0 sadly got a 4spd, did thailand roll out the 5spd recently or was the 4spd only for the 1.6l unit? If it is a 4spd ill have to try it out first to see if it suffers like the 4spd 3.2 pajero, have yet to see how the revised pajerosport gt benefits from a 5spd auto. Otherwise id get a manual though i hate clutching in traffic or check into a second hand honda civic with paddle shift 5spd. Yes I agree some wont compare a brand new focus (even if same platform) to a second hand maz3, as one comes complete with manufacturer warantee, but ive had hardly any issues with new cars which would justify the premium commanded by buying a new focus of the outgoing model over a mazda which has already shed half of its 1mill acquisition cost as i think the sportier instrument pannel, interior touches and alteeza clear lights and muscular miata styling cues of the mazda will age better than the more conservative ford focus, this of course is a value judgement as If i bought 2011 ford focus 2011 id buy the sedan as i find it more attractive, and find the rear end of the 2012 sedan less desirable than the hatch. Mazda 3 im indifferent as both are nice, but as I enjoy building bandpass subwoofer enclosures for the boots of all my cars to date at home (car audio ethusiast) and i like the higher rear roofline of the hatch id prefer the 5dr hatch3.

LOL since I found out on here that the fortuner sportivo is holding its value at approx 1.2mil (350k more than i was hoping to get preowned one for), i was ready to resume the hunt for a 2006-2009 mazda3 hatch. but this thread has definately had me thinking about how much more fun it be drive the 2011 focus tdci with that 6spd knowing the fuel economy wont penalise the heavy foot like itll sting on the mazda especially with as you said the rising fuel prices. It be nostalgic to drive a diesel sedan like i used to drive a petrol many years ago without paying at the pumps.....the "good days" for us car ethusiasts.

I get lost with Fords Old Wine in New Bottles. Im told the Focus S.T. isn't even on sale in the U.K. . 1800 cc Diesels have been in the Fiesta and Escort for 20 odd years, doing 60+ mpg.. All this MPG talk is hypothetical to most ferangs here they don't do the Klics to justify the extra cost of an oiler. Yours Sincerely, Muddled in Mukdahan..

True on both accounts, wouldnt notice much change on the showroom floor in ford dealers if a time lapse camera was installed since 2004, very dated car options, also agree completely you have to calculate how many kms your going to be doing to get the servicing and fuel incentive of oilers, i heard the mazda3 and ford focus run on subsidized e20 though im not sure.

in for service or 'yet again' for crap reliabilty problems,

The new ford looks pretty decent and promises to improve upon an already well handling and reliable car, do you feel as though your car had a lot of post production problems or is this the general trend with the focus in thailand. I havent had much issue with my escape and to be honest im considering this clearence package as my daily driver (when in thailand), Looking at the ford th website now, looks pretty good but seems as though there are only 2 airbags when same gen mazda3 come with important curtain side airbags...?

not sure i want to pull the trigger on a focus without trying the new one which has been available overseas. I think the mazda 3 looks better than the equivalent ford focus both inside and out, but the mazda3 (detuned in thailand) apparently is like a bad party guest who drinks too much and wont go haha

On a 90kmh highway, fine is same doing 120 or 160kmh, usually 200 baht and limited to 1.000 baht. Manual speedchecks usually catch the above 120kmh only

Agreed, but this was most definately a racket, the picture quality was very poor and pixelated. Bottom line the fine went from 600 baht to 200 baht which is what counted, but i can say with absolute certainty that i was not over 120kmph as i wasnt even in the far right "passing lane" that can equate to a fine if used! I just shrugged it off as there is surely instances where i have been above 120kmph....just highlighting the potential abuse of these systems to extort as they were that day.

I agree with funcat, give the new nissan a look, the 1.2 should be fuel efficient and offers great space for the class, if the 1.2 is strained under the weight (likely) id be interested to see whether a 1.5 might of been a more appropriate power plant. Id get the ford fiesta over the mazda 2 which are essentially the same car as mazda/ford share platforms.

Did a bit of a search on the mazda 3 here, seems like some find the fuel economy to be poor including the 1.6litre, I think the 2.3 i drove returned better kmpl, but as this was a loaner for 2 weeks 3 years ago i dont remember as fuel prices werent as steep as now. but tis a shame the mazda engines appear to be so thirsty given the current fuel prices, maybe a good idea to also give the civic a test though itll cost more because hondas hold value, the paddle shift and stylish interior is also nice though too much if you have conservative taste. The ride is a little harsh and handling not as taut at the 3's in the bends. The outgoing honda civic has nice aggressive styling and imo better than the 2012. If you want good fuel economy check the fiesta or the outgoing diesel focus for 999k and 0.99 financing terms for 48 months that MRO posted, very tempting offer by ford to clear stock.

Im very tall, but fit well in the fiesta though the seats were not incredibly confortable for me, the cabin was very nice and didnt have the disposable camera feel of the toyota yaris and other subcompacts ive had the displeasure of driving.

I would go with the mazda 3, has very generous interior space as does the ford focus (shared platform). Though i have not driven the 2.0 engine offered in thailand, I noticed there isnt cruise control options on the right hand side of steering wheel, just audio controls. Ive driven the 2.3 mazda speed overseas and was impressed in the handling considering im usually not a fan of fwd, im not sure if mazda 2.0 only comes with 4speed tiptroonic transmission or whether they uped it at a certain year to 5speed. The interior whilst hard plastic was textured and felt more upmarket and stylish than other compacts like the corrola or lancer (sportier than focus). the rear seats are comfortable (more room in the hatch as the sedan has a sloping rear roofline, the black leather interior is very supple and feel the car has/will age well, ive seen some for around 550k asking price online, the mazda came with optional moonroof, which in thai market is definately a rarity in the segment (and in general) thus a premium luxury. funny how jazz's and many common cars over in Hong Kong and other SEA places have them yet thailand does not. I understand the hot climate and local obsession with whitening creams make for sunfearing drivers but i quite like having the moonroof down at night when driving the escape when out of urban areas.

I got flagged down on the chonburi motorway a year ago, showed me some poor pictures of me doing a above speed limit which at the time in question i know i was not doing, was definately a racket as many other motoriist were lining up at a make shift tent to pay on the spot fines, I protested somewhat and they reduced my fine based on a new agreed speed of 128kmph i still wasnt doing but decided to just pay the small fine and move on. Guess it was to help offset a budget deficit at the preciinct or shore up revenues. Either way whilst i dont condone wreckless driving and heavy speeding and tend to drive pretty defensively in LOS, its a bit of shame the new cams are in because i quite enjoy the freedom and more relaxed driving atmosphere. As someone who has driven in Thailand for about 10 years already, i do prefer LOS and dislike the way i need to be extra dilligent and cautious of potential steep fines and penalty points when driving abroad. Guess there will be a new market for prosumer solutions to this in form of radar detectors for the cops on highway and licence plate film/spray which procures overexposed readouts. Ill definately consider the plate spray given the prevalence of the citations others are mentioning in the thread, not so much for the small fine but more for the inconvienance of paying it and potential for the cameras to be wrong as they have been with me in australia!

I went along to the Nissan dealer on highway 36 just after Makro the other day to take a look at a new Nissan March as the dealer in Pattaya has nothing in stock.

To my shock when the bonnet was opened it was clear to see it had been in water, all the aluminium fittings, aircon pipes, engine brackets, and electrical brackets were stained and turning powdery leaving the tell tale white deposit on your hand if you rub it. I said to the sales man this car has been in water ! he just smiled and said ... we clean for you. I showed him the nuts on top of the front suspension struts as they were particularly bad and his reply was if you buy the car we will change the nuts for you.

On moving inside the car I noticed tissue paper stuffed into the 4 corners of the wind screen ? when asked ... what's this ? the reply as expected after his previous answers was don't worry we take out.

As this was only 4 days ago anybody reading this and thinking this is a joke just go down there and look for yourself.

This may well be an extream example of trying to sell a water damaged car but I'm sure its not the only place their trying to do it.

Wow!

Buyer beware.

how to tell if a Engine / Car was flooded

And please do not start with Wet Seats and Bad Smell

Yes the bad smell is a good indicator, goes under the "take a sniff" criteria"

here is a more comprehensive list of tips, looks like new car buyers should be on alert!

http://trucks.about.com/od/autobuying/tp/flooded_cars.htm

If you have got front wheel on a breakdown truck will be able to toe.

No wheels at all, use crane straps and a vehicle with a large Hi-ab.

:jap:

Cheers, agreed, will need to be lifted with truck equipped with crane. Not sure how i can go about finding one of these, last resort ill go to ban phli near bkk and ask around there for either a rental i can drive down for a weekend, though it be better if i could find someone locally in pattaya with this. Might try asking around large repair shops or insurrance companies which may have contacts of someone with one.

I said to the sales man this car has been in water ! he just smiled and said ... we clean for you. I showed him the nuts on top of the front suspension struts as they were particularly bad and his reply was if you buy the car we will change the nuts for you.

On moving inside the car I noticed tissue paper stuffed into the 4 corners of the wind screen ? when asked ... what's this ? the reply as expected after his previous answers was don't worry we take out.

As this was only 4 days ago anybody reading this and thinking this is a joke just go down there and look for yourself.

This may well be an extream example of trying to sell a water damaged car but I'm sure its not the only place their trying to do it.

Not remotely suprised, reading your post it felt as if i was there, anyone whos lived in thailand has heard these assurances many a time. Im suprised they didnt try to coverup the reality but i guess he was confident his assurances would allieviate any concerns. Thats pretty shameful though selling soaked stock.

Where is the Civic Caphant , looks like a CRV to me , with very nice leather chairs.. Thats my sort of Quality n Build , like a Mitsu . Luvly grub , not a Korean in sight. .

The crv crossover is based on the civic platform, like the previous escape/tribute was based on the mazda 6 platform (mazda on stilts), i agree with you on the nice leather seats, definately look inviting! Not much a fan of the more conservative looks of the new civic and thus this crv, I agree with MRO, this appears more of a facelift for honda than a new model when comparing changes, but thats largely because the outgoing escape was so long in the tooth

if given a choice ill always choose substance of style, so if escape has tacky plastic again, then crv would have my vote!

Long story short, I have several "hobby cars" ie money pits, I enjoy working on them with friends (pending the restoration task) but lately been out of country and outsourced the task of putting on some skyline r32 axels to a shop which i had poorly appraised for this task, clearly too difficult as the chasis has been somewhat butchered and the previous wheels and axels with spacers cannot be put back on from this shop, hence i have no way to move the car to another location.

Im currious how wrecked cars are transfered when there are not rear wheels to tow a jacked up car. Ive seen truck/trailer for hire on side of sukumvitt pattaya near ptty tai, but dont see how i can get it up onto the trailer without a crane. I have inquired with numerous people but nothing has been done and so would be grateful for any suggestions on how to move a currently unmovable car!

Cheers :jap:

I think the previous civic looked better than the new one (first civic where you could mention semi agressive styling as a plus), whilst not unattractive this offering pales compared to the revision of the new escape imo, but escape being a ford in thailand, will not hold as high a resale value (not as much a concern for people who sit on their cars for more than 5 years before changing). at least the grill on the front of this is more prominent, new civic reminds me of a 90s odessy van from the front

From one of the shots it looks like the sunroof transcends to the rear seats. The rear aircon and dash definately give an upscale feel to this car, just hope the trims are not that hard tacky interior in our current escape. Thanks for the updates, hope we all get a sniff of new ranger based everest, this new escape if with diesel option and the future everest will likely replace my escape,

Reminds me slightly of the remarkably unattractive honda city previous generation (new design much improved), also roof resembles the older passat highlines, and can see some teeana cues in it too.

Inside looks pretty good though and as wandarinstar said it definately represents good value, the 1.2 motor seems to address rising fuel prices but fully laden with suitcases and passengers that 1.2 will not let its struggle be unaudible.

new bmw 3 series look like a 5 series, I actually thought photo was a fiver until i read the article. probably Th manufactoring by march/april

320D seems the only logical initial one for TH, as the 2,0? petrol is like 240hp, and needs to be "detuned" to fit TH 220hp tax limit

Agreed the new 3 shares many styling cues from bigger 5, the 320D is very refined too, reward at the pump is a nice incentive after shelling out the cash to buy one.

Thanks a lot for this review, Definately invaluable for people considering the new captiva, Whilst many reviews may have a faceoffs between competitor offerings within same segment, I feel a larger sedan like the accord and the captiva crossover type suv would answer the same core needs of spacious transport for 4 people and cramped for 5! I definately need to adjust my driving when using a sedan because of potholes especially when im driving unfamiliar roads, in a vehicle like the captiva you can definately relax knowing you may just need allignment. Heavy rains always reveal the shoddy re-re-recontracted pothole repair work on backroads in patters,

Shame theres no rearview camera on the navi, the new ford focus self parking system looked pretty great in reviews especially for its class, so youd expect the captiva navi edition to have a cam. Aftermarket solutions definately easy to come by, i have a rearview mirror one i bought on ebay. I know some will say its a rebadged daewoo, but the new revision on the captiva was a noticeble improvement inside and out, I like the diesel powerplant option offered on the captiva, and looking foward to confirmation on the escape sharring the the focus tdci though at 2litre it may be as uninspiring as the old 2.3 petrol engine.

Congrats and enjoy your new ride

what is the current state of the diesel subsidy fund, heard that was going to dry up soon. wonder what price will float to since its important for logistics and industry, advantages of reliability and efficiency would still remain.

There hasn't been any diesel subsidies since the current gov't came in, so what you're paying now is market price.

Gasohol products continue to be subsidized however - 91 E10 (1.40 B/L), 95 E10 (2.80 B/L) and 95 E85 (13.50 B/L), with the only contributors to the fund being LPG (0.9755 B/KG) and Gasohol 95 E10 (0.20 B/L).

Alright thanks for that, I remember the good days when diesel was 12-14 baht/litre. Guess i owe my more economical driving habits like coasting to red lights to the floated rate. I must of been misinformed because i was told by several people a soon to be exhausted fund was responsible for some of the relatively low price of diesel. Yet i would assume its taxation on petrol, and lack of the eco taxes levied on diesel as they did in aus whilst i was there, which meant price parity or diesel being more expensive per litre.

I have to look again at the new focus but this has a lot of styling cues of the fiesta particularly the rear. It be nice to see diesels in more unibody LOS offerings, with the new ford focus, this escape and the new everest, the gap between prod lines is finally becoming narrower here in thailand which is a good thing. I personally would of considered more sedans and crossover suv's in the past had they a diesel offering. I like ppv's but their disel powerplants were high on my list of relative advantages.

what is the current state of the diesel subsidy fund, heard that was going to dry up soon. wonder what price will float to since its important for logistics and industry, advantages of reliability and efficiency would still remain.

BTW, there's a rumor floating around that IMV2 could appear as early as late next year now...

Lets hope that rumor comes true and youll have some fantastic pictures to post, cheers for the thread on the trailblazer MRO

te]

Interesting Post... I get lost , how much is a decent second hand Land Cruiser. Being free of the Daughters Spivo thanks to a Mitsu Paj. Last month i swapped my leased Range Rover ride for a Land Cruiser for a couple of days with the Hotel Boss where i stay. It was as big as a Whale, today ive used a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado , bloody lovely , no feel of a Truck about it. , and seems smaller. Now ive been told its really old and dated. Like Me. Perhaps KBB can tell us if it is smaller.. As for Looks these days ,we have the "Cornflake Box" Mitsu , or "The Bloated Toad " Tuna Look . . Well , if it is Old n Dated, lets go backwardness.

Ive driven the prado but i think the one your driving is the current model, i drove an older late 90s one which I had assumed was an updated hilux surf. I wonder if thailand will ever relax the import duties on cars, or whether they will continue to encourage manufacturers to create vehicles locally to escape the tarrifs. More competition is only going to improve the offerings here, while i think the new ford focus disel comming soon well priced "relatively" and the fortuner represents good value compared to imports, i would like to see more innovation and improvement in locally made cars and more affordable imports to discourage mediocrity and largely aesthitic facelifts.

any vehicle the drivers seat can be modified to move more backwards accomodating pluss 180cm guys. for vigo/tuna its a couple of brackets to install. I am 180 myself and sit in the rearmost position in these trucks, actually the ones with powerseat moves one or two cm more backwards than the manual seats, and thus the manual seats I get more tired in legs, in addition they dont have cruise

my tunas 2005,2006 and 2007 all where fulltime4x4, and milage at 160kmh cruise speed was 8-9km/liter

Thanks Kata, Shame i love cars so much because my dimensions really dont suit the majority of LOS vehicles, I have a longer torso which makes roof height a concern and long legs to point id probably need to sit on rear seats to get my legs under the dash because the tilt isnt enough (including fortuner but would modify the seat). I remember a suzuki vitara 4dr I had plenty of room for me, dated now and got poor miledge for the power. have read all topics associated with the sportrider, and followed your discussion with member Plus over the relatively poor 3 sensor abs stopping distances on the sportrider as you were involved with exporting of cars or something to Europe. Do you feel as though the sportrider would not fare well in a crash, obviously active safety wont be good with a suv, but id of thought the passive safety be alright? I have seen plenty of wrecks of toyota and hondas made for chinese domestic market crashed in mainland china, they get great km per litre with such little weight to move, the sheet metal is thin and i even saw styrafoam fly out from the bumper of a recent honda civic!

As the fortuner is selling for near new prices, i may just wait it out till the IMV-II platform debuts in 2014 and give it a year to see postings in here (not usually an early adopter as i like to read owner reviews or long test reviews over first impression based reviews). So asumming I decide that the fortuner resale values have held stronger than i hoped and i dont feel comfortable buying a new one when the model is mature and would rather wait to see what the next generation brings, I drove a fortuner 4x4 manual 3.0 for about a month and felt that it had significantly more body roll than I was used to in a relatives boxy thairung i drove many years ago, and while the shared with innova interiors were decent they arent any better than the ford escape my father drives,. No doubt the interiors are MUCH better than the previous generation but not sure whether I can justify the high resale price and hesitation at paying full price for a mature model, even if i feel the fortuner will age quite well amongst the new gen given the new trailblazer isnt a drastic difference when you strip all the show bling trimmings off it shown in the debut pictures MRO posted. When comparing the Fortuner with the Sportrider the difference is clear, can only assume that IMVII will also be considerable. I used to have a truck as a spare car, and enjoyed its reliability and fuel efficiency. Would you recommend the sportrider over say a gwagon given the strada didnt come with commonrail? I guess i kinda want to travel around thailand with something reliable yet also safe and gets good miledge for the time being then trade whatever in for the next gen suv. Im overseas at the moment but end of the year when im back home ill visit some tents and fire some low offers on some fortuners but seems as though the floods arent going to help me in the way i thought they would!!

Just to give you an idea of price a friend of mine has just sold his Sportivo got 1m 200,000bt he had asked for 1.3m EEEEEK I hear you say I think the reason is that lot's of peep's want one and there no longer made. Supply and demand. tho

EEEEEK is right, im used to the insanity of LOS prices for example Honda NSX's going for just shy of 3mil, Supras only recently comming down from north of 2mil down to a "relatively sane" 1 mill ish ammount, even the asking prices of the sportrider D4D top spec seems to be 500-550k, though i can assume a 450k or less offer is more in line with reality. I really like the Fortuner trimmings as i prefer a darker dash and the spoiler kit, but so does everyone else, supply and demand indeed!

Yes I don't think the price of the sportivo will decrease much after flooding. If anything, they will stablise or even increase slightly, especially when people need to sell their flooded vehicles and need to purchase another car. Those who can't afford the downpayment on a new car will be aiming for unflooded second hand units.

I think your best bet is to buy new if you can wait a fair while because of supply problems. As mentioned, the ford ranger is looking good if you don't a seven seater. I think demand for larger vehicles will increase after these massive floods too - even I'm considering one!

Yes thanks, i suppose my initialy belief that that asking prices will decrease with the flooding is flawed, that said i cant imagine car sales being that great at the tents, i remember getting better deal car shopping end of the month/year overseas as this is good for the dealership books so better to extract more concessions on price etc. The new ranger certainly looks muscular, i like the truck look of the first colorado for example, and feel the new chev is too similar to a cruise, which is a nice looking sedan but not for a truck. Id be more interested in the new everest as i like the look of a truck based suv more than a truck unless im just traveling into town.

I know what you mean about the demand! i remeber laughing at a stock crv with a snorkel on it earlier this year, guess hed be laughing at my stalled 3series if we both needed to travel down a flooded road, goodluck with your larger vehicle quest!

I was shopping for an SUV a couple of months back. Looked at new and used and wound up buying new given the rather minimal depreciation and the warranty.

Used prices have been bolstered by the lack of supply of new vehicles in the market. The Fortuner has a new facelifted model that was already in short supply due to supply chain issues from the tsunami- the waiting list was around 3-4 months long.

Wound up buying a Captiva.

Thanks for suggesting a logical reason to explain the second hand price madness, especially for the Sportivo trim models im interested in. I suppose i will wait for the logistics problems associated with the flood to be sorted so the prices will come down, I suppose some new fortuner buyers arent willing to wait and may consider the high asking prices at the moment. The captiva is a nice drive, the new facelift one looks great and felt much improved.

Have owned 3 tuna and 3 vigo, all top models 4x4 auto

IMHO tuna 4x4 does not need VSC. its full time 4x4 makes it stick to the road, and it takes very hard provocations to loose traction. In addition the VSC on these trucks is not very advanced, so wouldnt do much good at these G-forces. What it needs are the larger brakes Q4 2008, but they, or similar, can be aftermarket installed. so can proper wheels. next tuna facelift 2011 is purely cosmetic

vigo, active safety is hugely improved with VSC

and sportrider neither has proper brakes or vsc or crash safety

as for car ownership, getting a new one on finance can cost you less than a second hand one. but then again I would be looking at Pajero Sport Gt if 4x4 is not needed

or save a bundle and get a Ford Ranger when its out in a month

Thanks for your advice and input, sounds like you have plenty of experience with the model and respective trucks. I remember some discussion being posted about the VSC being more basic on here, I tend to be a pretty sane driver but given the fortuner is heavier i was of the impression the VSC was implemented to address concerns over its stability. Yes your right about the full time 4wd, I had a grand cherokee a few years ago and whilst fuel miledge definately suffered it did handle as though on rails, are all the fortuners fulltime 4x4 or just for 2008 q4? Main concern is fishtailing in an evasive manuever as i tend to drive the motorways at night with big trucks (lorry driving on a yabaa diet) never a good combination and so anything for maintaining a composed ride and abrupt lane changing.

I have been looking at the online listings, from what i can tell the new landcruiser lights facelift for 2008 predates the main changes i had associated with the facelift (better brakes, vsc, improved rear ac from roof), I believe the presence of 3 (opposed to 2) black switches in the center of the dash near the 4wd shifter must indicate the fortuner with the revisions im seeking, shame because the Fortuner smarts from 2008 carrying a relatively reasonable asking price all have 2 switches, majority of sportivos are listed for 1.290-1.390, will wait till they are south of 1mill after the floodmess ceases i suppose. Otherwise I'll shop for a new offering and just make payments providing interest is low. The new everest based on ranger should be good, but maybe they will delay a year like mitsu and other brands do taking a year plus to release a suv based on new truck platform. The Chev apparently wont differ much from its US counterpart whereas the previous one was a dmax sporting chev inspired styling. At 192cm i can never know what my options are till i sit in them and drive!