~G~

And yes, I rented a guesthouse in 'second street' with no key money. The new owners lease still has no key money payment.

New owner? Do you mean the new Tenant?

It'd be interesting to know what the official BOT stance on foreign accounts is though... officially allowed without work permits, etc. or not? Are such rules on the books and just not enforced (like the whole visa runner thing) or are these just widespread reports of grumpy/unhelpful bank employees?

It is diffuclt to determine. The problems are usually not with this employee or another, but rather depend on the branch policy.

I have a friend that wanted to open a bank account without a WP. He tried several banks and they all refused. I called SCB head office and they said no can do. Quick search in Thai visa showed that some branches have no problems with that. He went to SCB branch in Times Square and got one with no problems.

First of all, i never said anything about a bad location. Im talking about the difference between being on beach road, and being on second road. Of course, if you have a bad location its not gonna work, whatever the business, but what im saying is stay away from the inflated rents of prime locations.

Second street is pretty good. You just confirm what I said about good location being important.

Secondly, through using sites like hostelworld and paying a fixed yearly fee of all of 25USD my guesthouse was at 70% occupancy thoughout the low season. Not a bad effort. Add to this the ability of booking through our own website (again, no commisions due there) and we generally didnt have space for walk in guests, especially in the high season when we were booked out for a 4 month period.

Sounds good, but quite irrelenent due to your good location.

Dont forget, the best marketing of all is free. Word of mouth. If you have a little secret, and those that stay with you enjoy it, they will tell their friends. Travellers in Thailand speak to each other.

They certainly do. And they could start speaking with each other after they found your guesthouse, which was is a good location to begin with.

Regarding key money, personal preferences are indeed relevant. Thats the point of a discussion forum in the first place isnt it? Sure, many people accept that key money is the norm here, however, there are those like myself who dont like the idea of it. I dont charge key money for the locations that i lease out, either here or in my own country. I do however charge a reasonable and fair rent.

You are being a bit vague here. You are talking about renting but now speaking as a landlord? Bottom line: Did you rent a guesthouse in second street with no keymoney or is all that in theory?

~G~, the point is that I have zero interest in engaging in real-estate! Our hotel is on long-term rented land. But the recent imposition of the company regs puts companies involved in hotel ownership into the same group as companies involved in real-estate, (ie buying/selling land or property).

Anyway, we have decided that the hotel will have to be in my wife's name only. I will then have to make a new Thai company which will engage in software etc. So I will get my WP and pay taxes for this software company.

My plan was to use the hotel project as something which would benefit my PR application. (ie - I had invested x million baht in a hotel for disabled tourists which brings income into Thailand AND does some social good by helping disabled tourists and Thais to have a nice holiday etc). With my name not appearing on this hotel venture at all, I assume that it's presence will count as nothing for my PR application.

Simon

As far as I understand, the amount of tax you paid in Thailand will be a significant issue in the PR application. I assume your software company can provide services to the Hotel and you can withdraw a significant amount of your income as a salary from that company...

Golf. (this whole Suvarnabhumi nonsense is a Golf players' conspiracy thing, "let us play in peace")

Guesthouse, your posts are interesting, I hope it's OK if I ask you a few questions.

buying during the big land give away AKA ‘Back end of the Financial Crisis’ we still had to pay quite a lot more than I anticipated for the land.

That was years ago, did you just own the land during that time?

My estimate is that to achieve a living income you need a guesthouse/hotel of at least 15 rooms, and that fixes a base price way above 2 million. Our own plans range around the Bht14million mark - inclusive of land.

Didn't quite get if you've bought an existing structure/s or constructing it yourself. Is it correct to assume this figure includes construction costs and everything else apart from running costs? May I ask how many rooms will you have?

Since there ain't no Constitution at the moment , us farangs can be treated any way they want with impunity.

Except, the USA may have something to say about that, by using the threat of punishment of no more aid to Thailand.

Yes, it is a top US interest - all Americans who try to bend Thai laws and own land through this loophole or another should be able to so at will. Extremely important, vital for world democracy, Absolute Justice and God's will. In case of Thailand actually enforcing its laws by the underlying principles (=no foreign ownership of land), the country will quickly be included in the Axis of Evil, together with Iran and North Korea.

Gees G it was a joke. It had nothing to do about land. Dragonman was talking about life in general with impunity. Example: The military forced all restaurants to serve farangs rice instead of potatoes. No one in the military could get in trouble now doing this. Could only the threat of USA aid being stop, is why its not happening?

This thread is not about the USA, but since you brought it up, why be surprised if others make their own jokes?

I want my name on the hotel company so that I can get a WP and pay taxes - and then use this to support my PR application in the future. No can do they tell me, because it's almost impossible to form a ltd company now that engages in real-estate. Better off just putting it all in your wife's name....

You're certainly unwelcome if you want to get a piece of the real estate business here.

Since there ain't no Constitution at the moment , us farangs can be treated any way they want with impunity.

Except, the USA may have something to say about that, by using the threat of punishment of no more aid to Thailand.

Yes, it is a top US interest - all Americans who try to bend Thai laws and own land through this loophole or another should be able to so at will. Extremely important, vital for world democracy, Absolute Justice and God's will. In case of Thailand actually enforcing its laws by the underlying principles (=no foreign ownership of land), the country will quickly be included in the Axis of Evil, together with Iran and North Korea.

The key, as i said before if offering something different, and marketing that wisely.

Bad location equals much higher marketing expenses. Isn't that obvious?

Taking the majority of your bookings over the internet, through agreed service providers, negates the location factor.

First, in each hotel booking site there are thousands featured hotels, you still compete with all of those. Second, you make much less money from guests arriving from agents than from walk-bys. You can't really afford paying significant agent comissions with 500-1000 baht rooms, and no agent will list or promote your hotel for pennies.

Also, another major point is that i hate is 'key money'.

Me too, so what. That's the way it is being done here, your personal preferences are not relevant.

It is the Israeli new year tomorrow, Nasrahalla releases a statement:

Happy New Year

All rumours. This morning, when I left my apartment to work, the girl in the lobby told me that there might be a curfew soon, so I better stay ("her friend told her..."). I didn't pay attention to that and she was surprised that I went out despite her warning. Obviously, there was no curfew.

In these times rumours can spread easily.

Let this workout for the best of the country and its people.

Regardless of the level of corruption of the government, coups do not contribute the stability or democracy of a country, on the contrary.

For an export license you need:

- A Company

- Import/Export smart card from the Customs Authority

Once you have those, For sensitive products you will need corresponsing export licenses from Thai authorities, in this case this will probably be ministry of Health and ministry of Commerce.

Dragonman, maybe you can answer a question I asked in another thread:

What happens if the foreigner is out of Thailand, and the land owner cannot verify whether he is dead or alive.

Theorectically, with no evidence, when will the land owner finally regain his control over the land, if ever?

~G~, it is quite possible that some of those expat packages are paid offshore, not by the local company, these can sometimes be considered to be part of "HQ costs", which may or may not be allocated down to the local company. Also, depending on the type of business, 288 million baht or 7.5 million usd may not be a very big part of total turnover. Some companies may even choose to start a subsidiary "service" company to hold these expat costs in order to move them out of the company books that will be consolidated back to HQ. All i'm saying is the scenario described is not at all improbable and there are many large foreign companies in Thailand that operate in such a way.

I perfectly accept that possibility, but between pointing the extreme examples, if any, and saying that 480K baht a month is an average expat salary in Thailand, there is indeed a long way.

There are plenty of international companies operating in Bangkok that have several expats on deals of 300-500k baht a month.

By definition, these are international companies such as banks, accounting firms, law firm, consulting companies etc who rely on expat expertise to assist local operations. There's nothing unusual about it.

Of course, in each international company will be a few executives that make those figures. But this guy mentioned 50 expats in one company, all receiving over 480K baht a month.

Don't downplay it, we are not talking about "several", we are not talking about "300K". 50 Expats in the same company making over 480K baht a month.

I'd say that there are not many companies in Bangkok that can boast such feaures. Maybe a few.

There are plenty of international companies operating in Bangkok that have several expats on deals of 300-500k baht a month.

By definition, these are international companies such as banks, accounting firms, law firm, consulting companies etc who rely on expat expertise to assist local operations. There's nothing unusual about it.

Question was average expat income. Out of maybe 100,000 expats living in Thailand, will it be safe to say that only a few percents get salary of around 480K baht a month? Will it be safe to say that the average is less than half of that?

$13k a month salary for a full package expat is probably about right. You figure the base salary for an engineer/manager with 15+ years or so experience is around 100K per year, add uplift, housing, school fees, etc it is not hard to get over 150K a year. There are many (over 50 in my company) such people working and living in Thailand.

A million baht is not a lot to invest, you can probably open a small shop of some sort for that and give yourself some money to live on while building up a customer base. Investing in the SET is probably not a bad idea, but like stock markets everywhere, it carries various degrees of risk, depending on the equities chosen.

IMHO the idea of being able to invest $25 anywhere in the world and expect to live on the proceeds is somewhat farfetched.

TH

I think a few people have painted a rather glamerous picture of ex pat life here in Thailand .... whilst there are for sure a number of 'fat cats' with packages mentioned above this is by no means the majority ... the majority of ex pats living and working in Thailand will be pulling in nowhere near the above monthly amounts and most of my mates here (teachers and dive instructor) are quite happily living on a 50K Baht and less monthly wage ....

Well, since we are basing our opinions what the "majority of expats" make on our own experiences I will give mine. All of my friends and all of the expats I know make comparable salaries as above. The example I gave was for an American working overseas, of course, Brits and Aussie's base salaries are lower, but nonetheless, every expat I know is making a salary close or higher than what he would make at home (even the ones we refer to as “local expats”), that is why they are working oversees. I don't think I have ever met but just a couple of your 50k a month types.

TH

1. You mentioned $13K a month, which is over 480K baht a month. You really claim that over 50 expats in your company get those figures? What does your company do that it can afford paying over 24,000,000 baht a month, or 288,000,000 baht a year, just for expat salaries? I think you are just speculating rather than giving real figures.

2. I don't get what does this thread has to do with expat packages anyway?!

• Land department issued a lifetime usufruct, granting me security of tenure and control over the property until I die.

The "Lifetime" period is a strange one. What happens if you are out of Thailand, how can anyone establish whether you are dead or alive?

• Get the wife to sign a new will, making me the beneficiary of the property if she dies before me.

How can such a will be legal if you cannot own the property?

Agreed. There is no visa run on Non Immigrant B visas with Work Permits. There is a 90 day reporting requirement but that is usually taken care of by a secretary - no need to do much of anything.

Not accurate. This is only for those who get an Extension of Stay, which requires that the company will have minimum of 4 Thai employees (or 1 for brokers / consultants / agents) and that the foreigner receives a minimum salary according to his nationality.

There are many people on a Non-Imm-B, with a WP, that do not fulfill the above requirements and need to do 90 days visa runs. That's what I did last year.

Another question is whether those applying for Tourist Visas in embassies / consulates will even get them after doing 3 visa runs. I mean, the purpose of this rule is to not allow continuous stay in Thailand for those without long visas, what's the big difference in making visa runners spend a day or two in Laos or Cambodia and get their Tourist visas in the Thai consulates instead of at the border?

basic economics, wages will rise. the overall level may decrease if schools refuse to pay the higher wages, but then with the less supply of foreign teachers, the rich thais will pay a steap price to have their kids taught by the remaining native english speakers. Good for the native speakers, bad for Thailand.

Basic Economics takes into consideration the rigidity of the Demand - when the price rises, how many people will still pay, how many will switch to alternatives.

I am talking about the vast majority of schools, not about those targetting rich families, or international schools. I assume most of those supply work permits to the teachers anyway.

If these teachers disappear, then it comes down to supply and demand. Will we be seeing B100k/month salaries offered for English teaching jobs in the near future? If the few legit teachers remaining demand it, we might...

Those that are employed illegaly are not employed by places that can pay those salaries. They will be replaced by Thais is my guess.

EDIT: Anyone that knows this field better is welcome to correct me if it doesn't make sense.