SamMunich

This rice pledging thing is only useful for the Shinawatra henchmen. It has been pointed out, that most farmers don't get to see any money of this scheme, but the middlemen and millers are making a fortune out of it. These are the people the Shinawatras want, to support their stay in power.

The Shinawatra gambit is to take tax-payers money and spend it as if it were from the Shinawatra's own pocket.

This will only end, when Thailand finally (in the not too far future) reaches a situation like the one Greece is in since the last couple of years. Let the country be indebted like Greece, nevermind, as long as the billions are on Shinawatras (and his fellow thieves) accounts abroad.

Sam M.

Why don't you take it back to Europe as cash money?

No hassle with explaining, where you got it from, what you intend to do with it, etc.

And best of all you don't make the banks rich, as they will charge you half a fortune for a banking transfer. First the Thai banks will want it documented, whether the money is legal and legally yours, then they charge you.

I recently took cash money across borders, way above the stated limits. I had to press the officials to document my taking in and taking out of money, both in Asia as also in Europe. They simply don't want to be bothered with this! So take your money as cash and travel! I will do that in the future as well!

As long as you don't act suspicious, nobody will know, what you got in your pocket(s).

Just make sure it's not in the checked-in luggage!!!

Right, as director of a company you are expected to make enough money to not have to rely on Social Security.

I don't know, if you can apply as "informal" worker in your own company.

But what is possible (and advisable) is to apply for voluntary membership according to Art. 39 of the SSO act. This is especially important, if you have been working for a company in Thailand and then resigned or were fired. You can apply within 3 month after termination, after that it's no more possible. You pay 432 Baht a month (plus 10 Baht transfer fee) and get for that the complete cover of the SSO, especially the right to get free health care at a hospital of your choice (from a list of participating hospitals!). However contribution to retirement are so minuscle, that they might not be worth it.

Now this voluntary membership via Art. 39 might be, what is offered to informal workers.

In any case, go to the SSO headoffice in DinDaeng (behind the Labour Department, same compound) and if your Thai is not so good, get a friend to join for translation. The staff there is very friendly and forthcoming, though you might have to wait here and there a bit due to queues...

Sam M.

There are two kind of Non-Immigrant -B- visas and it depends on which one you have.

Number 1: You get the Non-Im extended to a year with the papers from your employer. You go to Immigration every 90 days and show your passport.

Number 2: You get your Non-Im abroad with multiple re-entries. You don't get the visa extended at Immigration in Thailand, but you leave the country every 90 days (= visa run). After a year, you try to get another Non-Im -B- at your home country. That is, if you're lucky and (!) can show a valid work permit.

In case number 1, your visa is invalidated within 1 week after you return the work-permit, _because_ the visa is attached to you working for that specific company/institution. No more work, no more "need" for the visa.

In case number 2 your visa is NOT connected to a specific company/institution employing you. So you leave the company and return the WP, but the visa is still valid until the end of it's term, which might be after another 1 or 2 visa runs.

That is no BS or nonsense, I had exactly this situation not long ago.

Teh only thing that might have changed is the restrictions on issuing a Non-Im -B- abroad...

Sam M.

Very bad experience with DBS Vickers in Singapore

I just set up an account for trading shares with DBS Vickers in SG.

...

A few days later I have to correct a few things, that looked worse than they turned out.

Obviously you have to tell the broker (on the phone) clearly, what your price limit is, else they take whatever they can get. So I ordered by phone and had the broker get back to me with the current price, before I agreed to actual buy that stock.

Also the cancellation was not a fee but the sell-back of the stocks after I refused to buy at the price they charged me. The broker paid it out of his own pocket he claimed. Which leaves me to wonder, how much money he's making a month, if he can just absorb some 2000 Euro...

I haven't yet received the receipt of the first deal I did with them. It seems, they are sending that as a piece of paper by mail instead of by e-mail. Then I will see, how to continue dealing with and through them.

Also I was told, the Singapore law is pretty strict, when it comes to dealing with banks, just to make sure no fraud is encouraged.

Will keep you updated (though I dunno, if it is of interest to anybody... Feedback, folks!)

Cheers,

Sam M.

Very bad experience with DBS Vickers in Singapore

I just set up an account for trading shares with DBS Vickers in SG. No need to go there, paperwork can be done via downloading forms and sending the completed forms registered to singapore office. Money can be transferred there as well, if you want to leave a paper/ virtual trail. Or take it there in cash, customs on both sides (Thai / Singapore) don't care, if it exceeds the max allowed amount. However I went there personally, also to see the person, who will be dealing with me and my money.

First I wondered, why they charged me 1.5% of the amount of Euro I deposited there in a Euro-nominated account. Most of my trading will involve Euro stocks. But 1.5% is way much! Tehn I needed to open an account in SingDollars if I want to trade in other stocks on the Singapore exchange. Minimum amount in that account 5,000 Sing-$.

Secondly, I can't trade European stocks except from the UK online, but have to go through the more expensive channel via the broker in SG. But why do I need a second account for the off-line trading? And that second account can't be controlled by online checking of the account status.

Then I told them to buy the stocks (one title only) I wanted at that days rate. I don't mind if the share price is higher within a certain range. But they charged me an about 1.5 -2% higher price, which added up to a substantial loss on my side. I showed them the actual trading range of that stock and the amount of shares traded that day, because they claimed it was the best they could get for me. Basically they wanted to rip me off. When I said, they should cancel that fraudulent deal, they charged me another 2.5% equals 2,000 Euro (!) for the cancellation.

In other words: They try to rip you off and if you don't agree to the rip-off, they charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee.

So right now I can only warn others to avoid DBS Vickers in Singapore for their banking needs.

And I think I will have to look for another alternative, where banking is not so obscure and not so fraudulent.

Does anybody have similar experience with them or a positive experience with another bank/securties company in SG?

Sam M.

You can own as many condos as you like, if you can afford it and if your condos fall under the 49% of area, that can be owned by foreigners.

You can rent the unit(s) out to others, why not? Thing to watch here is, that you need to get a Non-Immigrant-B visa, which will allow you to take care of renting out the units, but not to do any work on them by yourself. But no need for a work-permit, if you just want to own and rent out the unit(s).

A Work-Permit can only be applied for by a company, not by a person. Of course you could start a company with (another?) 2 million Baht in registered capital and then apply for a work permit. But why? Additional cost and effort, but without the need to do so...

Sam M.

I got me a Non-Im multiple entry at the end of last year in Germany from a honorary consulate. I had to be over 50 years old AND show to have 12,000 Euro (1,000/month) on my German account.

Haven't heard of any country issuing such visas except the home country, so sorry.

One reason is, that the Immigration wants to be sure you are still allowed to go back (and not to jail) to your home country, the other reason I guess is a tit-for-tat of the Immigration versus the restrictive issuing of visas for Thais to Western countries.

For Germans there is a website explaining visa classes and conditions at "www.thaikonsulat.de/index2.html".

Sam Munich

It certainly is the work of U.S. government and revenue pressure on banks around the world. And the localization of this pressure comes through AMLO.

On the other hand it shows the stupidity of those people making these (new) rules, as it hurts them themselve.

I was recently researching the possibility of opening a bank account (Savings, with ATM card) at several branch offices around my place. Reason being, that foreign retirees might want to set up a base here, either full time or during the cold months in the West. Certainly having a bank acount is a sine qua non condition, if I would want to stay here for a couple of months. Making it impossible for those retirees to open an account will mean loosing the money they will bring in to spend in the local economy.

It seems, it is still very much a matter of personal attitude of each branch manager. Another point is, that bringing a Thai friend along might also help.

What I found out though, is that Bangkok Bank, Krung Thai Bank, UOB and CIMB require the applicant to have a work-permit, TMB and K-Bank said either a work-permit or a proof of residing in Thailand. Thai Panich wanted a passport with a non-im visa, Bank of Ayuttaya just wanted to see any visa.

Now this is a random sampling! But what none of the people I asked could explain was, how a retiree (or early retiree) can provide a work-permit... A clear case of TIT...

Sam

I'm not so sure, that it's o.k. to do nothing.

Technically speaking the old passport is invalidated, when you get a new one. That would also make the immigration entry stamp invalid.

For one I would go and ask the Immigration,- can't hurt to politely ask.

When I got a new passport here a few years ago, I had to go to Immigration and have the entry stamp transferred. For the remaining time of the visa (!) I had to take both passports with me, as the visa can not be transferred (!) by Immigration. Visas are issued by embassies/consulates, which come under the Foreign Ministry, while Immigration is under Interior Ministry.

If I were you, I would play it safe.

Sam

Actually I think you should be able to get more than 50K a month. I was, until last year, working at a Thai company supervising implementation and ongoing use of an ERP software, making about 60K net. And that wasn't working 5 days/week, else I would have gotten around 80K before deductions.

If you can find a bigger company, where the software integration is to happen, you likely get more than in a plain software company. That s/w company would send you out or have you work on a project, where they might charge 60-80K a motnh and then they want to have their cut from that, leaving you with the said 35-50K. Actually, below 50K you can't get a work permit (as a Western European), so you can always claim that you need at least that much to be able to work officially. Working w/o a permit bears a certain risk, and if found out you might get blacklisted as persona-non-grata in Thailand.

Finding a job in Thailand is pretty difficult, finding a good/well-paid job is even mroe difficult, but nevertheless, good luck

Sam

I got mail today <g>.

The SSO informed me (and I guess all others), that are voluntary paying contributions ( Art. 39 of the SSO law), that for the first 6 months of 2012 the contribution will be reduced from 432 Baht/month to 240 Bant/month and for the second half of the year it will be 331 Baht/month. Starting 2013 it will be back to 432 Baht/month.

I guess this is their part of supporting those, that are in dire straights due to the flooding last year <wg>...

A second issue in the same letter was, that within the first 3 months of each year you can switch the hospital, where you get free treatment (in and outpatient!) and medication. The list of 47 hospitals for you to choose was attached. A few hospitals withdrew from the SSO support. To switch it is best to go to your local SSO branch. I did it earlier this month and was in and out in less than 5 minutes.

So now you know <g>,

Sam Munich

My best guess is, that a passport will be sufficient to qualify as "A copy of the Citizenship Identity Card".

When I applied for voluntary extention of paying Social Security according to Art. 39 all they wanted to see to "identify" me was a passport (and a copy for their file).

As for contacting them, for one there is a number "for English press X", when you call them.

The other - and better - way is to go to their office. If you're in BKK, go to their headoffice next to the Labour Department in Din Daeng.

If your Thai isn't good enough, take a friend with you to translate.

In general they are very helpful!!!

Sam Munich

Normally you joined when you were properly employed. If you lost your job or retired early you could continue paying the minimum 432 baht per month yourself, this is what I do.

That is only possible, if done within 3 month after leaving thw company you worked for. After 3 months you're out. And if you "forget" to pay your 432 Baht/month for 3 months in a row you're out as well. That's what I was told at SSO HQ in Din Daeng,

SamMunich

<br />... on reaching 60 years of age I was refunded all of my monthly payments and then the monthly fee was reduced from 750 baht (max) per month to 420 (min) covering me for full medical benefits in a hospital of my choice for life! I also get payment refunds on the money that I am now paying and which I collect once a year ... For those who knock the Thai SS I should point out that it covers all medical costs (in and out patient) in a private hospital of your choice ... The only qualifications for joining are that you must be working (and holder of a valid work permit), you must be under sixty years of age and that your company must be a member of the social security system<br />

You only get the "refund" of the part of the 750 Baht, that are for the retirement fund. That's what we here see as a onetime lump sum payment.

You can actually not choose ANY hospital, but (I guess) all state-run and some private hospitals are on the list of available hospitals. BTW that doesn't even have to be in the same province.

About the need for a work-permit I'm not so sure. Even though both Labor Dept. and SSO work together, they are two different entities and governed by different laws. To join the SSO the company you are working for has to join the SSO (mandatory for most companies if not all, that have a certain number of employees). So in fact not YOU join, but the company insures you at the SSO.

If things are done strictly legal, you need a work-permit to start working for a company in Thailand and thus will most likely be insured. Also unemployment is insured via the SSO, but pay-out is administered by the labor department of your province.

If in doubt, go to the SSO and ask the staff there, they are eager to help you.

Sam Munich

Re: How the formula is calculated ?

I dunno, but it is defined in the law governing the SSO, that those, who are too old to reach the 15 years of contribution will get 3% plus interest. In my case that was somewhere in the range of 100,000 Baht as a one-time-payment. If you go to the SSO office, they will calculate the exact amount for you. I also don't know the exact amount or percentage of the overall contribution (let's say the 750 Baht/month), that is going into the pension fund. Quite frankly, I wasn't interested in a lump-sum payment but instead pay the 432 Baht (plus bank charge) on the 15th of each month to keep my pension entitlement. This is the voluntary contribution according to art. 39 of the law, that I mentioned before.

However, if you pay voluntarily, your "income" for pension is then only 218 Baht (?), instead of the max. 15,000 Baht, that are the top level for SSO calculation (5% of 15,000 = 750 Baht/month). In this way I can get the 15 years of contribution full, but will - of course - not receive the max amount of 3,000 Baht a month upon retiring. Agreed, it isn't much, but why not take it, when you paid for it?

The lump-sum payment is only for those, who reach 55 years and haven't contributed the full 15 years.

IMHO the health insurance part is well worth the 432 Baht a month... Compare that to a private insurance! And the SSO health insurance will not throw you out, just because you turned 65 or 70 years... And BTW I think this will also qualify as a health insurance, if you should need one for a visa application.

Cheers,

SamMunich

Actually, I have had to deal with the SSO earlier this year. First you have to understand, that the package of 5% of your income, but not more than 750 Baht/month is a contribution for several insurances.

You should have gotten a reddish card, that allows you to get treatment and medication at one hospital (out of a list of mostly state-run hospitals) of your choice. This card is normally valid for two years, but you can change the hospital once a year.

Another insurance covers work-related accidents and accidents on the way from or to work.

Another insurance of this package covers maternity leave.

Another insurance is for unemployment benefits, but there are some conditions to it, which I don't want to elaborate here.

And still another (out of 6 or 7) is the pensions fund. This entitles you to get 20% of your last income (based on the averagbe of the last 5 years), but not exceeding 3,000 Baht/month, if you paid in at least 180 months or 15 years. Every additional year adds a little over 1% to the amount, but I don't knwo, if the 3,000 Baht limit is the absolute top. Now as this part of the regulation was added only about 11 years ago, nobody qualifies for this yet, no Thai and no foreigner. Also to qualify you have to be at least 55 years old. And btw at 55 years or older, you don't qualify for unemployment benefits.

What the SSO now offers is, according to the law, a lump sum payment of the pension of 3% plus interest of the amount, that was taken from your contribution for the pension fund. With this 3%++ all your entitlements to pension payments are covered. So if you decide on this, you would have to work/contribute another 15 years to be eligible again for monthly pension payments.

The best advice is to go to your local SSO office and ask for their help. They are very friendly staff there, but if your Thai language knowledge isn't so good, you better take along a Thai friend of yours. Bring along the reddish card, which has your Social Securtiy Membership number,- and your passport. They don't check your visa, just your ID. Also your work-permit is of no interest to them.

And if you recently (last 3 months) quit work and SSO contribution (for any reason), you might want to apply for voluntary contributions according to Art. 39 of the SSO law. They give you a small blue booklet with all the information needed, but it is in Thai only, so if you can't read it, find somebody to explain the important points to you.

The SSO head office in Bangkok is located behind the Labor Department in Din Daeng, Soi Mit Maitree (?).