SiamJai

That's about as funny as calling any Germans Nazi. But whatever floats your boat, dude. <shrugs>

Nice one! Are you the lucky owner?

On my way from Mae Sai I saw a few accidents too. One was during the night, so couldn't tell much details, but it was definitely much more than a fender-bender, judging from the size of the hole in the side of a minivan, and the presence of the ambulance.

Hi folks, I just moved to Chiang Mai. Even though many of my questions were answered simply by reading earlier pages on this forum, I still have a few left. I hope you can help out a greenhorn here.

I'd like to buy a ranad ek, but don't know any music shops around here. Any suggestions? Also looking for a flight case for my keyboard, because only prayers hold the original one together.

Then looking for rollerblade accessories, and perhaps street skating groups that I could join. I saw some rails set up at CMU, but no people at that time.

That's it for now; sorry for the many questions, but didn't want to make a separate topic for each one.

Thanks,

SiamJai

Just came back from Mae Sai couple of days ago. They did indeed ask for the money, but showing my credit card convinced the officer (though probably it was not supposed to be enough proof). That, and perhaps that I wasn't dressed like a bum.

Still got detained for an hour, but for other reasons.

New guy here. Not so much due to the recent events, but more out of accidental curiosity. Originally just came to the TV website to get info on visas, but wanted to see what this community is like. Lurked for a while, but the relaxed atmosphere and the fast pace of discussions lured me into becoming an active participant. Feels great to be here!

''Those in charge of these theft cases have been ordered not to grant bail to any of the men involved.

Not to be the devil's advocate - I despise their acts as much as anyone else - but don't you find it strange that a murderer on the run, once caught, was released on bail, while thieves are not granted such luxury? I don't mind them being behind bars, but just find it weird.

Bina, I find your notion on "insecure" quite interesting, and can't honestly agree with it. IMO, men who give 100% of their love, care and attention to one, and only one woman, and expect no more and no less in return are hardly to be called insecure. On the contrary, it creates a strong foundation for a most secure relationship.

What is insecure is a relationship where love is shared. True love cannot be shared, and if you get a portion, you don't get the real thing. Either that, or the other woman doesn't get anything, in which case you live with a cheater, a traitor. Good luck with such a character. Today it is her, tomorrow it may be you. Now, that's what I call insecure.

You talk about Thai social mores as something acceptable; while in my opinion the tremendous unequality between the genders is nothing short of outrageous.

Did you know that slavery was the norm a hundred years ago in Siam? It was the social norm, but when people got enlightened about just how morally wrong it is, they did away with it. I expect the same thing happening with gender unequality, given enough time. There are signs of it already in the capital, but it will take more time to trickle down to the remote areas.

Speaking of which, Isaan is an interesting place. You seem to like books; did you read Pira Sudham's works on Isaan life? There is a story from the perspective of a mia noi there, and it is similar to yours. Except that the woman didn't become mia noi out of fancy choice, but rather due to economic and social necessity. That puts it into a whole different category.

But please don't let the harsh tone of my posts deceive you. Since you are already in the situation, I wish that you make the best out of it, if only for the sake of the happiness of the others involved. Which leads us into...

dont judge by your standards whether children are 'hurt' or not

Well, I don't know if children of mia luang are hurt because of mia noi in general, but I do know one child who got scarred for life because of one. I lived with a Thai family until very recently. Mae is a divorced woman in her late thirties with a sixteen year old daughter (seventeen this year). Mae's ex-husband was a drunkard with a long history of domestic violence. Mae tolerated the abuse for quite a while (like you said, divorce is not easy), but when she found out that he had two mia noi, it was the last straw - she got divorced. I know how much Nongsao was hurt then. Years later, she still is; and the news that the guy married one of the mia nois (dumped the other one), and has a kid from her, doesn't help to heal the wound either.

I should say, this is a Bangkok story. It may be somewhat different in Isaan, but humans are humans, and emotional betrayal makes no one happy, regardless of cultural background.

Well, folks, what I said got confirmed. Locals are treated as second-class citizens, according to this recent article. Not just in Thailand, but all throughout the disaster-struck area. Sad, really.

SiamRuby, I think we talk about two different things. The local volunteers are really generous people who show genuine altruism. The problem is with the organized help groups, which are influenced by the ones in power, who want to play both sides, like Thaiboxer said. Increasing the confusion, the media coverage mixes the two kinds of help, trying to give greed a humane mask.

I think if the media keeps their mouths shut, the compassionate Thais will show their true colors on their own.

I agree.

I still can't make any sense of this. So now all the Western women who got married in their 20s -whom you labelled "good" - are "giving"? What are they "giving" exactly, that their counterparts don't?

Head?  

LOL, that was one of the possible answers that came to my mind too! But then again, is that a "spousal privilege"? In today's world, I don't think so.

which one are you? What was so bad abut your life that you needed to immerse yourself in an alien world?

An international student traveling the world to satisfy the thirst for knowledge; not only that of academic nature, but cultural and social as well. I hope that this knowledge will enable me to better the lives of those less fortunate than me.

In the meanwhile, also looking for a home away from my communist-oppressed country of birth which I haven't seen for many years. Thailand has all the qualities I was looking for in a new home, and thus I intend to be part of it as much as possible.

I hope this answers your question.

BTW, my posts are long only because I learned ten-finger blind-typing and do it fast.

How many in this 'group'? Millions?

Well, let's see: I'm talking about:

-not all men;

-not all white men;

-not all white men coming to Thailand;

-not all white men coming to Thailand alone;

-not all white men coming to Thailand alone, being losers at home;

-but all white men coming to Thailand alone, being losers at home, looking for a wife over here.

That pretty much narrows it down, doesn't it? At any rate, this group is much smaller (I hope!) than just "all western women". Then remember what I just said about generalizations in the previous post: I acknowledged, I do it too. So, what's new?

Good looking women can also make good partners.

Yeah - maybe. But you put yourself at the mercy of chance a lot more this way. Babyface, big boobs and a nice butt has nothing to do with personal character - which is the only thing that counts when ensuring a good, successful marriage.

You said that you don't want to take a chance to find exceptions - well, that's what you've been doing all along! You could have had a minuscule chance of striking lucky and get a supermodel with great personality, but let's be realistic here. Especially at your age and... hmmm, how shall we say, "string of quickies all around the world" that you brag about more than once around here. What really good woman would put up with that?

As far as experience goes: your "several live-in relationships and more others" hardly qualify for experience for proclaiming how bad western women are for marriage. Apples and oranges, buddy. Same goes with your friends and family members. It is their experience that you, as an outsider, can interpret any way you like.

I have a commitment... to my personal happiness.

Oh, of that I have no doubt. What a great character! I pity any people living with you.

I do not consider 'bad times' to be when a wife fcuks one of your ''friends'' for example. eh? Or one of your employees, eh?

This is about as surprising as when some losers complain that they got cheated on by a bargirl. Again, you won't have much of a chance of finding a good marriage partner when looking for butts and tits. Divorce is best to be prevented before marriage, did you know that?

I have a genuine problem with languages

Oh, I see. I understand too; though languages are easier for me, I had difficulty with math. But the thought that I could use this as an excuse never even came to mind. I just sat down and worked harder on it, until I got it up to standards. And that was just for university! I'd notice something lacking in a more important thing, say, marriage, I would put extra effort to correct it.

So, yes; it is laziness and lack of commitment on your part. No one is perfect in everything, but if it is really important, everything can be improved. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Ravisher, I have to acknowledge, you are a good debater. You took my two main points and labeled them as "supposition", while explaining that my general examples do not apply to you. Okay, you don't drink, and don't have enema bag. These were not the main points, but rather just general statements applying to your group rather than to you in particular.

But please tell me: how could "shallow taste = shallow marriage" be a supposition? As far as I know, "supposition" is not a synonym of "common sense", therefore I disagree with you. Base your selection on shallow criteria, and you will end up with shallow results - this is common sense. You can only reap what you sow.

I think wisdom comes from experience, not from any academy.

True - when it's about how to cook tom yam gung and other simple stuff. But when you pass judgement on millions of individuals, you have to rely on more than an experience of four cases - which may mean a lot to you personally, but to outsiders it's next to nothing. But you'd need to think outside to box to realize this. (By the way, lumping millions of women into one category is the best case for supposition. A look in the mirror is in order, before you accuse others, don't you think?) I do it too - in fact, everyone does. But at least, most people accept that there are exceptions to the rule. I have not seen you doing that.

I don't see how your frequent change of marriage partners shows any commitment - unless you talk about commitment to marriage, but who wants to be committed to an institution? How about committing to one person, as the marriage vow says. Through good times and bad times, eh? Working problems out, instead of running away, eh?

So, what will happen if things don't work out with your Thai wife? Will we see you here, advising others about the adverse character of 30,000,000+ Thai women, based on your "overwhelming" experience? Get real.

I find your reasoning for not learning a language interesting. Because there are problems even between people who speak the same language perfectly, you seem to think "why bother then". But good communication is more than just the perfect order of words, and perfect usage of grammar. They are the necessary basics - hence the need to learn the language perfectly - but it's so much more. The people you refer to simply did not get beyond grammatical perfection. It's not only how you say it, but also what to say. Any marriage counselor would stress the importance of good communication. Considering the above, I find your argument for not learning a language just an indefensible excuse for laziness, and -again- lack of committment.

Happy New Year.

PS: By the way: did you know that sociopath is an anagram for thai scoop? Fits the situation well. Nomen est omen.

Okay - sorry for the offensive post. However, I still worry about the mass exodus of revellers to the traditionally peaceful North.

aaaaaaa, I may have posted irresponsibly in these days of grief and mourning - but how about the people who act in an irresponsible and disrespectful manner during these times? The tourists may argue that they paid for having fun - but many victims paid with their lives. How about showing silent reverence for them, rather than just look for another place to party?

Any woman, or man, who determines that taking, rather than giving, is what it is all about, is lacking.

I still can't make any sense of this. So now all the Western women who got married in their 20s -whom you labelled "good" - are "giving"? What are they "giving" exactly, that their counterparts don't? Please elaborate on this further.

since I have never had any children, and would like to some day, marrying a woman that is mid 40's + doesn't make sense.

So that's it? Looking at the wife as a baby-factory? If your younger loved one happened to be infertile, you'd threw her out of your life as soon as you found it out then, right?

Believe it or not, others have higher, more noble reasons for marriage. But I guess not all of us evolved to overcome feral instincts of finding a mate only for species survival. (Like we need to worry about that now - quite the contrary. :/ )

Younger people can understand people older than themselves

I disagree. Sure, the younger generations will be amazed by Father's and Grandpa's stories about what life was like in the past, but can you base a marriage on that kind of "understanding"? Maturity plays a role, as you pointed out, but it cannot be a substitute.

What is surprising to me is that although you apparently live in Thailand, you have failed to learn one of the basics of why Thais garner respect - that they honor, not ridicule, people senior to themselves.

What's surprising to me is that you've failed to get beyond the guidebook definition of life in Thailand. The respect shown towards the elderly is about as deep and sincere as a handshake in the West. It is shown only when the actual situation needs it. moer often than not, when the situation disappears, so does the respect. True respect, the kind that's coming from the heart, has to be earned here just like anywhere else on Earth.

I don't just live in Thailand, but live with Thai people, and see what happens when the situation is no longer formal. Don't get me wrong; if the social norms demand it, I can be polite as much as any Thai, I'd even call you Than if the Thai rules of etiquette demand it - so that I won't embarrass my friends. But as soon as those rules cease to apply (and they certainly do not apply in an Internet forum) real feelings emerge. I've been talking and ridiculing old men freely with my Thai friends, who do it just as much as anyone else.

Here is some proof of how superficial and flexible the "honor the elderly" system is: one day you might witness a young boy kneeling before his grandfather in deep respect. The next morning, you may see the same old man kneeling before the young boy in a similarly respectful manner. Guess what happened?

The boy got ordained as a novice monk, the situation changed, and the behavior changed as well. The man does not not revere the young boy personally, but rather what he represents at that place at that time.

Similarly, the young ones do not pay respect to the elderly for their personal character, but rather for what he represents at the given situation and time. All participants know this, except some old Western men, who let all that respect get to their heads, apparently. Put down the guidebooks and head into real Thai life for a change, hmm?

You have much to learn.

And so have you, buddy. Why do so many old people think that they aquire knowledge automatically as they blow out more and more candles on the birthday cake, is beyond me.

One great thing about Buddhism is that our learning is not limited to the experiences of a single lifetime. Thus, a person whose body is younger in this life may actually be well ahead of his seemingly older peers - much like a racecar that apperears last is actually a lap ahead of everyone else. So, to correct your sentence, we all have much to learn.

You really sound hostile.

That's right. The reason is because you, and the rest of your kind make it much more difficult for us normal farang expat men to integrate into the fabric of Thai society.

They, especially Thai men! are very suspicious, and it takes a lot of time to get through barrier they erect thanks to you. One can see it in their eyes, as they are sizing you up "Is this guy a sex-tourist jerk, or a sociopath loser who can't have a meaningful existence at home? Is he here for Thai women, like the others? "

There are so many of these kinds of people here that the fact that a Farang male could come here purely for cultural reasons does not even make it as a possibilty - until I live with them for months, and start to accept than I'm different. Some of them anyway. For others, the barrier you erected with the pathetic lifestyle is just impossible to break. Who knows what kind of wonderful opportunities did I miss out by not knowing these people better? Thank you very much for spoiling our names - and thus, our lives.

/ offensive post removed

/don't do it again....

Yep, really nice.

Thanks for sharing that pic.

While it is very notable that so much help is given to the Farang in the disaster-struck area, I can't help but think of the motives behind this. Recently I heard from my (Thai) sister that there is a growing resentment amongst Thai people about the way help is administered to the victims of the southern disaster. More specifically, they are frustrated that way too much attention is paid to helping Farang victims, neglecting the needs of the Thai. In other words, when it comes to distributing medical supplies and other stuff, it's "Farang first - Thai second", according to the complaint. They see it as a way to secure the continuous influx of tourism to the area. The Farang, swayed by the extraordinary care and attention, will less likely to avoid Thailand in the future. They say, it is a way to minimize the losses of the tourism sector - on the expense of the Thai victims.

You don't think so? Well, then how about this... do you guys know about the Death Railway and the Hellfire Pass, in Kanchanaburi? I've been there, seen it, and stood on the bridge over the River Kwai (it is called Khwae, actually). I read about and visited the graves of the 16,000 POWs who perished making the bridge and railway. But, strangely, I heard nothing of the 100,000 (!!) Asian laborers who also perished by the same fate. Had to dig into the literature to find out that there is a museum somewhere in Kanchanaburi where their skeletons are displayed.

What does this have to do with the above? Well, I just find it strange that proper respect is paid to the POWs - people who came here on "kill or to be killed" terms to begin with - while the innocent civilians who also died by this forced labor are so rudely neglected - just because they are Asians.

Open any guidebook, there are likely to be pages written about the heroic demise of the POWs, while the Asian laborers are lucky to be mentioned in a footnote. Onehundred-thousand koolees die, who cares, right?

I see the same thing happening here.

Yeah, well, it's Patong. That should explain it all. Like you said in the other post, it attracts the &lt;deleted&gt; from all over, much like other similar places around there. What happens when the pits break open? See above.

as for him wanting to divorce her for a "suppossed fling" well... pot kettle and black spring to mind. You really should get a life eh.

I agree with you, expatgaz. The guy is a jerk, no doubt. He disgraces the marriage, cheats on his wife, but gets all upset on even the faintest suspicion that his wife may do the same thing. What a #####! Actually, I wish she'd do that. Maybe then he would get a perspective of what it feels like to be betrayed this way. She should give him a taste of his own medicine.

What goes around, comes around, folks. One way or another. Most of you know about how fond Mia Luang are of their kitchen knives, and like using them in the bed...

I wonder how many of these "understanding" members would change their attitude if they were in Mia Luang's shoes. Those of you who have a spouse, would you react the same way if you were being cheated this way? "Of course, honey, go on, have a little fun on the side."

I doubt it.

It is so easy to be understanding and nonjudgemental when it comes to the problems of strangers. However, I reserve this luxury when I can be absolutely sure that I could honestly maintain the same opinion, were I to deal with the same situation in my own life.

Depends on what you mean by "celebrate". Yes, I will commemorate the new year, saying goodbye to the old. I will be reflecting on the happenings of the past 365 days, and what to learn from them.

But no drinking and going crazy. Not because of any recent happenings or lack of mood - it is simply not my style.

Happy New Year to everyone - on the forums and elsewhere. Have fun too. I know I will. Oh, and... I wish that all of you making new year's resolutions can actually stick to them this time.

Good luck guys and gals.

'good' Western women are all married by the time that they are out of their 20s.

Wow... that's an interesting observation. So, by your definition, a "good" western woman is one with a husband and two kids by the time her highschool classmates are getting their university degrees. Sweet. I shudder to think what your definition of "bad" western women is then.

Older men to them (I am well past 20) are not appealing as a mate.

I am sorry that it shocked you, but I'm glad you finally reached the revelation that not many women like to marry their daddy, and even fewer are comfortable with marrying their grandpa, thank you. Those who do are the brave souls who endure for the sake of their (and their families) financial security.

they seem to care deeply about what is on the inside - not the exterior, and not the age. For me this shows a maturity that is not present in younger Western women.

Whoa, whoa, slow down, gramps. Just because you find women over here who are willing to stroke your balding head and make you feel like a king, it doesn't mean they value what you are inside. Just think about it. To do that, they would first have to know you inside out. Now, even if we don't look at the language barrier, how the heck could a young woman understand the values, feelings and ways thinking of someone from his father's/grandfather's generation? Don't you think that's a bit too much of a task, when even couples of the same generation struggle to truly understand each other?

And then we didn't even talk about the enormous culture gaps between the East and the West. "they seem to care deeply about what is on the inside" is just pure illusion, fueled by an inflated ego.