pentagara

Just now, smedly said:

no it doesn't 

 

sorry but your whole post is based on ..............................mostly "your opinion" without any hard facts or studies for most of it

 

It really is just an opinion piece which of course you are fully entitled to have - but lets be clear about what it is.

fully agreed, there's a lack of data.

1 hour ago, wensiensheng said:

I think the point that has drifted out of focus on a lot of posts is that Thailand is not talking about using one shot of  AZ and one shot of an mRNA vaccine. That combo HAS been used in some countries and as, as someone posted, it’s what Angela merkel did.

 

what Thailand is doing, to combat the delta strain,  is using one dose of sinovac and one dose of AZ. The issue here being that 2 doses of sinovac is not perceived as enough protection, so it’s being cut to just the one, and AZ added.

 

but AZ is perceived as only marginally better than sinovac against delta, or at least it’s own effectiveness is drastically cut.

 

in layman’s terms it’s weakest vaccine plus next less weakest vaccine.

 

whereas, AZ plus an mRNA would in layman’s terms be described as second least effective plus one of the “best”.

 

so if sinovac is a 1, and AZ a 2, and an mRNA a 3, what Thailand is doing adds up to 3. The other combo being used in other countries adds up to 5.

 

I deliberately haven’t gone into detail about actual percentage protection provided etc etc, I’m just trying to point out why people may perceive what Thailand is doing as being less than ideal. Basically it’s the inclusion of sinovac as one of the constituents in the combo.

Interesting calculation. It's unfortunately not that easy, though.

Example: Two doses of Astra taken two weeks apart will have crappy protection. Two doses of Astra taken 12 weeks apart will have much better protection. Reason: vector. So 2+2 does not make 4 in this case, even if it's two AZ in both cases. For this there's data and the reason is known as well.

Likely consequence:

1 dose of Sinovac plus one dose of AZ after four weeks should have better protection than 2 doses of AZ within 4 weeks. That's likely, but to be verified.

Similarly: Where would you put the one dose J&J in your calculation? Based on a recent study (albeit with very low numbers) the efficacy of J&J against delta increases (!) over time and from the start is better than AZ's two dose efficacy against delta. Potential reason (not really fully confirmed yet): AZ uses the same vector twice.

As for 2 mRNA within four weeks: It's unclear how that compares to one Sinovac plus one AZ within four weeks. Usually heterological combinations train the immune system better, but there's no data. Maybe/Probably better, maybe same, maybe worse. 

In any case, both the combination of 2 mRNA or even one mRNA plus one other vaccine is unavailable to people in Thailand right now. So why bother about theoretical options. Yes, if there would be a glut of mRNA in Thailand right now (like there is in the US), mRNA would ve a good choice.

Right now, where Thailand has some Sinovac and a bit more Astra, a mix of the two makes sense.

2 minutes ago, Addonvalue said:

Just wondering -- are folks missing all the news about several European countries dumping AstraZ and the European Medical Authority's (EMA) report finding links between the blood-clotting side-effects and deaths from Astra?  Now the actual time needed for clinical trials for these vaccines has been ignored due to 'emergency' use .   " In the trial records, it is explicitly stated that estimated study completion dates for the Pfizer, Mordena and AstraZeneca safety-related study are May 2, 2023, October 27, 2022, and February 14, 2023, respectively. " (can share details if required from a report I have read) All this to say -- now we want to COMBINE TWO experimental vaccines -- when NO clinical HUMAN trials have been done to see the effects? Not sure who wants to be the "test-tube" and guinea pigs for these upcoming injections? 

 

You rather want to be a guinea pig for the effects of Covid (be it long or short term)? Well, it's good to have people that make a sacrifice, I guess...

14 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

Nah, not really.

First, there was no AZ when they used the majority of Sinovac in Thailand so far. The majority of people that are vaccinated right now would be completely unprotected if they had waited for AZ. Any vaccine is better than no vaccine, especially for front line workers. Even if it helps to protect you only for a few months as stated in the research, e.g. while there's a peak outbreak - like right now.

Second, without Sinovac you definitely need two AZ doses. Efficacy of AZ especially against delta with only one dose is not too good. If you already had two Sinovac, one AZ shot should be perfectly enough based on current knowledge. There's even a high likelihood that this vaccine mix protects better than reusing the same vaccine (i.e. two AZ doses). But anyway, since you only need to use one AZ shot right now with people that already had Sinovac,  you can use the other AZ dose right now to help protect someone else. At the moment there's a scarcity of vaccines in Thailand not a glut that allows everyone to pick and choose. Again, any vaccine is better than none.

Third, with AZ alone you have to wait forever until you're fully protected (16+2 weeks in Thailand). You definitely need two doses of AZ for delta to be meaningfully protected, but you can't take them quickly one after another due to the technology used (adenovirus/vector). If you take them quickly one after another, efficacy of AZ against covid goes down substantially. If you mix Sinovac and AZ, you don't have to wait that long, since only one of the two shots will have the vector virus. As a result, four weeks wait between the doses should be perfectly enough.

10 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Take the plane, can spread faster that way

Well, Airasia already canceled domestic flights for July. Maybe the other airlines still fly though.

9 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

Thanks but I would not fly from the west coast of the USA more than half way around the world in the other direction, and I would not go through any Middle Eastern countries. 

 

  So are we free to choose any flights that are commercially available or must we use some flights that are specified by Thailand?

You can fly with all airlines that currently fly to Phuket on an international routing via countries that allow transfer for your nationality, recent travel history and vaccine/testing status. You currently cannot fly to the sandbox with a ticket that has a domestic leg within Thailand for your outbound flight from the US.

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

"Just talk to any sourcing department in a company."

 

You mean the Thai government? Right.

 

That's who's buying Moderna, Pfizer,...

What Im meant is: Sourcing departments of most private companies are really slow with first time contracts, the bigger the company, the slower. So a government being faster than private companies would be a surprise.

So yeah, that it was quick with Sinopharm is noteworthy. Probably the government in question suddenly felt substantial pressure to act. I guess what happened after Sonkran wasn't really expected....

With Pfizer they won't get a quick delivery now even if they wanted it though. Thailand is pretty much at the end of the waiting line there. So any "talks" about a Pfizer delivery in Q4/2021 effectively will mean signed contracts for deliveries sometime in 2022.  However, since the public wants to get Pfizer right now and not in 2022, they just say: "Yeah, we're almost there."

On 6/23/2021 at 3:12 PM, PETERTHEEATER said:

Freely? Just turn up with no restrictions imposed? 

should be rephrased: "... vaccinated tourists will be allowed to enter Phuket expensively with numerous local Covid tests for THB 2800 to 3500 each and closely tracked &  traced by the police officers of the Phuket Sandbox operation center for their own protection. Based on being vaccinated abroad, they will have numerous chances to win the virus from the not fully vaccinated local population and then test positive without symptoms in one of multiple draws. Your chances for this very positive outcome for us and the associated free* 14 day hospital stay for you will vary by your chosen vaccine." Disclaimer: *free depends on whether your insurance provider will cover the potentially inflated cost for the hospital stay.

On 6/25/2021 at 1:49 PM, NCC1701A said:

there is a new trend where people especially kids sit at home and look at all the places they want to go and houses they can't afford. 

 

did not see a friendly reminder about AirBNB sort term rentals being illegal in Thailand. 

Yeah, kind of wonder how you'd get a SHA+ certification as a host for an illegal short term Airbnb place ????

But true, it probably was more of an airbnb branding piece than an advertisement for Thailand...

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Here we go again. The assumption that the shortcomings of the early Bangkok ASQ that was handling a whole lot more visitors will automatically be repeated in the Phuket sandbox.

 

You guys are too funny. Predictable but funny.

Yes, true. For ASQ you're pretty much free to go to any province afterwards. For the Phuket sandbox that's not confirmed, so there's a chance that the province one goes to applies the standard rules for intra-Thai travel. Currently there are 10 provinces within Thailand that allow arrival of visitors from other Thai provinces without quarantine, a few more if you're vaccinated (with a Thai document to prove it?):

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1408032115552256004?s=20

Those rules can change any day of course, especially considering the Covid infection situation in Thailand right now...

Of course, if the sandbox is not as successful as it is planned to be, then the sandbox rules might be improved at any point in time ????

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1408032115552256004?s=20

Ah, just learned that Phuket issued a new rule for the sandbox:  If you want to leave the island after quarantine for another province (e.g. Bangkok), you need the following document at checkin at the airport for the domestic flight:

"Proof of COVID-19 test showing that COVID-19 was not detected during the 14-night stay in Phuket with the document issued by an agency of the Ministry of Public Health"

In ASQ in Bangkok, this document was sent by mail (postal mail) roughly one week after quarantine was done. At checkout the hotel said that they were very sorry that they can't provide the document at checkout since they didn't get it yet0, they were only able to provide a confirmation by the contract hospital that the quarantine test results were negative. At the time, no one ever cared about this document, also not for travel to other provinces.

Now Phuket makes it mandatory if you want to leave the province by air. That of course would be on top to requirements eg. Bangkok sets for entering their province ????

If one really needs to go to Thailand now, it actually might be better to choose ASQ instead of the Phuket sandbox. Quite likely cheaper (considering what they charge for tests in Phuket for the sandbox), and also actually can be planned.

40 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Yes, and when it these early farang returners report that it was all well managed and their experience was great, the more reluctant farangs will sign up. When they also report that it's working even better than they expected, the 'tourists' will start to sign up. Once the word spreads among tourists that it's a decent vacation experience, it will be high season.

 

BTW, I'm a glass-half-full kinda guy.

Yes, they'll gladly report that on days 5 and 12 they were rushing to find those new test centers in Phuket where they were required to take the RT-PCR tests for 2,800 THB a piece (or how they gave up and just went to one of the private hospitals to pay THB 3,500 there).  What an unusual an exciting experience. I assume also the arrival test has to be paid, and in case you go to Bangkok after the 14 days it would be 4 tests, so USD 440 total for the PCR tests in Thailand (and yes, they have scrapped the cheap antigen tests now for the sandbox). What a lavish holiday. Not sure this will lead to many more bookings by their friends though ????

34 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

"People in Thailand look set to be restricted in choice of vaccine"

 

Gosh...You mean the same as every other country in the world.....would you like to name a country that is given free vaccinations, & when you walk in they say....what one would you like? just tell us and we will get that one for you.

 

Any chance of putting a non negative headline about Thailand--Yup I agree they have fallen behind about the vaccinations---but this sort of headline is really Nit picking.

Hong Kong. Choice: Pfizer/BioNTech or Sinovac (you choose when you register). Cost: free. Availability: now for everyone above 16. But true, there's no choice in most other countries.

2 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"Owing to a rumor that COVID-19 Rapid Tests are being sold online and that the public can buy them and test themselves at home, the Department of Medical Sciences has clarified that the test kit is a test for antibodies only; it cannot detect the virus or indicate if the user is infected with the virus. The rapid tester should be used and the results interpreted only by specialists or medical technicians. If home users get a negative reading in the result, they might think they do not have the virus and then unintentionally spread the virus to others. So the department has warned the public not to buy the COVID-19 Rapid Test and use it themselves.
Category : NEWS ROOM
April 21, 2021"

 

(Bold added)

 

APPROVED SOURCE: 

The Government Public Relations Department

 

 

 

The statement as such is correct, that a rapid test is largely useless if administered by non-health professionals. If the rapid test is done correctly, it's actually painful and most non-health professionals will stop way before while getting the sample... Evwn then they are less reliable than PCR tests, but at least cheap and quick.

Nevertheless, there's probably a translation error. Rapid tests are typically antigen tests and not antibody tests. That's quite a difference.

1 hour ago, Blot said:

In the last 6 months, and on 4 occasions, I have been charged between 4,500 and 6,000 Baht for Covid tests by Bangkok Hospital Group. 

You probably got a different test though. In Phuket they do a rapid antigen test (testkit production cost about 2USD without logistics), you probably got a PCR test (testkit production cost about 30USD, plus hospital fees to pay e.g. the hospital admin, rent and the person with safety gear that gets your sample, ... - unless state subsidized, a PCR tests costs in total 120USD or more in most countries, especially at airports and private hospitals).

A PCR test analysis has to be done in a lab, so it takes longer to get the result. An antigen test can be done by anyone, cheaply and quickly, no lab required, results delivered in 10 mins or less. You get what you pay for though, antigen tests are more unreliable with a higher chance that your test result is wrong (both ways). They would not be accepted for international travel to most countries.

5 hours ago, Kaopad999 said:

Then i'm surprised the Hi-So's that are refusing to go to the hospitals didn't instead opt for a nicer hospital. It;s not like they wouldn't be able to afford it. 

No availability. You would just be a major headache for the private hospital. Most private hospitals state now that you can get tested there, bit if you're positive, they don't take you.

1 minute ago, malibukid said:

where's the closest civilized country that one can fly to get vaccinated?  most of us will be gone before these idiots will get their act together.  HK? SGN? Tokyo?  otherwise it back to the U.S.

Depends where you have a residence permit or citizenship. You won't be able to get into any of these places otherwise.

24 minutes ago, fleccer said:

Thailand's policy of hospitalising all who test positive for COVID-19, even without symptoms

 

What?? So they would like to hospitalize anyone who tests positive for the swab even without symptoms, all based on totally unreliable tests.

No, it's not "would like to". They do. It's currently enforced practice and has been for months. It might be because they don't trust people behaving responsibly after a positive result, not sure. In a way, hospitalization is an expensive form of quarantine.

Irrespective, PCR tests are not unreliable, especially if you're tested more than once (as you typically are after a positive result). But that's a different story and has nothing to do with hospitalization practice.

Yeah, that would be a miracle... From basically 0 vaccinations per month (or whatever in the four digits) to 10 million per month. Sounds like a challenge...

8 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

Is it just me...

 

I am having problems imagining the Thai goverment's legendary logistics and organisational skills distributing 60 million vaccine doses before the end of this year 2021.

 

I mean... thats around 10 million jabs per month, even i they start in july ????

 

The only way it's going to happen is that they get Lazada to deliver and administrate the jabs...

7 hours ago, Stygge said:

Nobody realizes Pfizer vaccine is a crazy idea for Thailand?
It´s a mRNA vaccine. It takes handling even European countries have problems with. It requires freezing temperatures well below a normal freezer, even under transport. The smallest shake of the vaccine take away all effect. Personel has to get special training to handle this vaccine and evenso large parties of the vaccine has to be discarded because of slight mishandling.

There is a great risk people in Thailand is only getting a placebo injection with no active ingredients. To a very high price. This vaccine is expensive.

Astra Zeneca and Jansen vector vaccine is the way to go in developing countries.

If they actually end up purchasing the BioNTech vaccine, it anyway likely will mostly be sold by private hospitals. Hospitals can't purchase from Pfizer directly due to liability issues (Pfizer/other vaccine manufacturers won't sell...), so the government is needed inbetween.

As for mRNA not being viable due to temperature issues: If only private hospitals in major cities offer it, the cold chain challenge should be managable. For large scale distribution, it actually depends whether it's an issue, since it's not mRNA specific, but depends on the lipids as well. Curevac's and the ARCoV vaccine are both mRNA based and don't have the temperature issue to the degree of the current generations of BioNTech and Moderna. Both are planned to become available in the 2nd half of 2021. They probably could buy Curevac now in addition to Pfizer and get it at the same time as the Pfizer/BioNTech one. Curevac is expected to get approval in June in major markets. But then, the Oxford vaccine ("AstraZeneca") doesn't have the cold storage issue either, so it's actually a non-issue. For large scale distribution, the Oxford vaccine will be used in Thailand anyway.

As for vaccines for developing countries, for now it's Oxford/AstraZeneca, but it's actually not an ideal long term solution for multiple reasons. If it were the perfect solution, we'd see large scale distribution now, but alas we don't, and it's not because of the blood clots. As a result, hopes are actually on NDV-HXP-S.

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

OK, but I suspect there will be supply chains which private hospitals can access. Money talks.

 

The issue is liability for side effects which private hospitals don't want to/can't cover. That's also the reason vaccine manufacturers don't want to sell to private entities. As a result nothing happened so far. If the government imports, vaccine manufacturers are excempted from any liability, so manufacturers are willing to at least talk about selling. A private contract cannot excempt either manufacturer or hospital of the liability, someone will have to cover the cost if a patient dies eg. from blood clots. Government has understood the issue now though and there are talks to use the government agency that normally only purchases medical supplies for the public health system as general Covid vaccine importer. Private hospitals would then buy the vaccine from the agency and the liability would end up with the state (with treatment of any side effects in state hospitals, even if the vaccine is offered by a private firm). Then vaccine manufacturers would be more willing to sell. The same setup has also been used for all Covid vaccine imports so far (AstraZeneca/Sinovac).

3 hours ago, BookShe said:

Let's just keep an eye on fatalities. Number of cases are less important. There can be an order of magnitude more cases undetected. Of course there's a correlation between case numbers and mortality, but it seems to be Thailand was pretty lucky in both terms since the start of this pandemic. ( I have no idea why)

Deaths follow with a two to three week latency, it's how Covid works...

18 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Of course anyone buying in during the 3-5 year period would be grandfathered in...why do some always assume the absurd? A more interesting question is what happens when it's time to sell...can a new foreign buyer retain ownership? And yes, leases are a maximum of 30 years at present (for thais and foreigners).

Learning from history. Read up what happened when they passed a similar law for some housing developments during/after the financial crisis in Asia in the 90s. Of course, it could be different this time, but no one knows, since it's usually arbitrary.

What happens when it's time to sell is quite clear though: The law at the time of sale applies.