nerjaron

It looks to me as though someone has shot himself in the foot . . . For the PM (no less) to admit that there are corrupt officials in Thailand speaks volumes . . .

I would like to thank most sincerely those contributors who replied so quickly to my question. I now feel reassured that I will be able to convert my money at Superrich and use 400k (not 40k as my original post) to open the account and "season" until I apply for the extension based on (90 day non - o) marriage. Thanks again to all.

May I be a little cheeky and ask a question related to this topic. I hope to go to Thailand early in 2021 and follow the process for long term residency. My wife (Thai but resident with me in UK) has a bank account with SCB and I want to open an account at the same bank. My plan is to take £12,000 cash Sterling and change it to THB at Superrich which always seems to give a better rate. I will use 40k THB from this exchange to open my account at SCB. However I have seen somewhere that the money must come from a UK bank account in my name. This requirement will be met but how can I prove to SCB that the money came from my UK bank account? I could use the receipt from Superrich to show that the exchange was in Sterling but this doesn't prove that it came from my account. Will this cause problems and should I just bite the bullet and wait until I open the account then transfer the cash through TransferWise and pay the £90+ charge? Thank you in anticipation for your help.

Many thanks for your replies. I was unaware that the UK had changed their policy - the last time I renewed my UK passport I got almost 9 months unexpired validity added to my new passport. I shall have to remember the new arrangements next time I am due to renew!

Hi, I am looking for some advice regarding a passport renewal application in the UK. On 20 July my Thai wife lodged her passport renewal application at a Consular outreach day at Newcastle. Coincidentally her Leave to Enter visa expired on 19 August and a FLR application was lodged around the same time and a decision is still awaited. Getting back to her passport, as everyone knows airports will refuse foreign travel if there is not at least 6 months validity left in a passport (plus, in our case a valid Leave to Enter/FLR permit). Since my wife's passport expires January 2020 the Consular outreach day came at exactly the right time as it saved us a costly trip from Northumberland to London. Her new passport arrived 2 days ago and I was shocked to find that it runs from July 2019 to July 2024 and not to January 2025 as I had expected. I feel somewhat peeved that, having been forced to apply for renewal 6 months before expiry, the passport does not include the remaining time from the existing passport (as DOES happen with UK passports) and therefore every time my wife wants to renew her passport she will lose 6 months through no fault of her own! I realise of couirse that we could just wait until January to renew the passport but that leaves us in a situation where my wife would not be able to travel for 6 months, and since we have family in Spain we like to fly there every couple of months. I emailed the Thai Embassy about this but they have replied that "Thai passport renewal is not like that". I find it appalling that hundreds of thousands of Thai citizens living in Europe and elsewhere are effectively being "ripped off" every time they renew their passports. Has this injustice ever been queried by anyone else and what was the outcome?

Thanks again mgb, I will certainly ask my wife to try to have the certificate "legalized". Unfortunately as with most Thais my wife is non-confrontational and she will not stand her ground if they fob her off without a written decision. There has been one small development - after writing to my MP he subsequently contacted the FCO in London who in turn contacted the British Embassy in Bangkok who have agreed to stamp our marriage certificate which apparently the Spanish Embassy have said they will accept. This remains to be seen (hence the reason why we will still try to have the certificate legalized) but my wife is going to the British Embassy tomorrow to avail herself of the first part of this arrangement. I have replied to my MP that whilst I will be happy to at last see justice done, this is apparently a concession in our case only and will not help future applicants who are subjected to the same nightmare!

mgb - the application was lodged and a day or two later my wife received a phone call from the Embassy stating that they could not process it further without the "missing" document. My wife was instructed to return to the Embassy to retrieve the application and supporting documents, and lo and behold their staff had already made some annotations on the application form and stamped it with their "Received" stamp! My wife picked up the documents but they gave her nothing in writing. She does however have the original application with their notes and date stamp.

We had the marriage certificate translated into English and stamped by the MFA in accordance with the Spanish requirements - they have not contested the fact that we are married, they are demanding this specifically worded document from the UK authorities which nobody is prepared to give me. I will however suggest to my wife that she has the certificate translated into Spanish and try again!

All

Thank you for your further contributions, my struggle is clearly going to get worse and my wife and I are facing the grim prospect of being condemned to live in separate countries for ever. MGB the application we made was for a family visa although we answered the questions differently:-

Field 21 Join husband

Field 24 Multiple entries

Field 25 Permanent

Field 29 Date entered

Field 30 blank

and so on. It may be that they didn't like the fact that I didn't show a departure date? How do you mean our marriage certificate should be "legalized" by the Spanish embassy? Why would they "legalize" a document which they have already rejected as evidence that we are legally married? I don't quite understand this point, can you clarify please.

beano2274 thank you for the further information. It seems that the fatal flaw in my plan, as pointed out by Riley'sLife, is the fact that I cannot prove "economic activity" as I as long since retired although when I lived in Spain with my family a number of years ago I did work in a self employed capacity as a jobbing builder/electrician/plumber etc. although I have no paperwork to support this. I could certainly provide evidence of "centre of life" but not of work.

Anyway, thank you all again for your advice, if anything further develops I will post it here.

beano2274 - thanks for your message. I had heard of this before but after all the problems we have endured I couldn't believe that it could actually be that simple. Someone at the Embassy suggested getting the normal 3 month Schengen visa to get my wife to Spain initially and then apply for the residency visa once we are in Spain. I understand she would need to have a return flight booked back to Bangkok (for the Schengen visa) plus health insurance but that would be a small price to pay if the rest of the process went smoothly. Naturally my wife is worried that if she is rejected in Spain after cutting ties with her employment she would have to return to Bangkok with nothing which is probably the main reason why we have not tested this route. I would be very grateful if you could give me any further information - was it straightforward once you got to Germany even though your wife originally arrived on a tourist (Schengen) visa?

Hello again friends. Thought I would let you know progress (or lack of) with this case. I am literally tearing my hair out. Tony M - I hadn't heard of this and I logged on to one of the links. They had one of those instant conversation facilities and I explained my plight. The person I spoke to suggested I try a solicitor - it was clear that this service only applies to British documents. I told him I had tried 2 solicitors who weren't interested and suddenly the conversation was terminated by him! I would be interested if you could post any further information on the person who actually got a Thai marriage certificate apostilled.

Anyway on with my story. I eventually heard back from SOLVIT who said they had been unable to resolve the position with the Spanish even though they (SOLVIT) disagreed with the Spanish stance, so once again I was left out in the cold. I wrote again to my MP who again took up the matter with the Overseas Residential Services Unit at the FCO. They came back to me at the end of December to say that the Spanish Embassy had denied that my wife had ever applied for a visa!! This despite the fact that I was personally interviewed by the Spanish Consul in his office. Another letter from the FCO suggested that only the courts in England and Wales can "recognise" a marriage undertaken in another country so off I went to my local County Court and yes, you've guessed it, they refused to help.

I really am distraught over this matter and divorcing my wife seems to be the only way forward but she and her family, who don't really understand, think I am up to no good and they are against a divorce. I wish I could bring my wife straight to the UK but as I have stated previously my income is nowhere near the £18,600 minimum threshold so that door is closed to me. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thank you Richard W. One of the enquiries I have made by email since I have been here in Bangkok was to a registrar covering my home district in England. Their response was that to marry my wife in the UK when I am already legally married would be illegal, but the feeling I got from the way they responded was that they were only covering their backs by giving their stock answer. I shall certainly investigate this in more detail when I go back to the UK in a couple of weeks (with a different registrar of course!).

Yes I was rather "sounding off" in my previous post for which I apologise but I think my frustration demonstrates the hopelessness I am feeling. One small point 7by7, I was not referring specifically to EEA migrants, I am concerned at the whole migrant situation, especially the likelihood that a percentage of the migrants/refugees are reported to be ISIS members seeking to wreak havoc throughout Europe/the world.

I do take your points, and you are quite correct that I am seeking to use the Surinder Singh route to avoid not only the crippling charges (remember I am a pensioner on a very limited income and I cannot meet the £18,600 requirement) but also to avoid the uncertainty of whether my wife's application may fail under some other part of the regulations. Trevor1809 hits the nail on the head. Incidentally Trevor1809 there was a later test case in which a retired person also won his case to pursue the Surinder Singh route.

Thanks for your input bobrussell. I actually own property in Spain and I have family (daughter + children) who have lived there for many years so it would be easy for me show that my "centre of life" is there. The Spanish are not asking anyone to certify our marriage, they are simply asking for a letter which states that a marriage in Thailand (any marriage) has the same legal effect (status) as a marriage similarly conducted in the UK. They already know this to be the case which is why I am so frustrated. 7by7 makes this point admirably, but I feel reluctant to go back to the Spanish Embassy since the Consul himself received me in his office last week to explain that he is acting on a directive from above. I hope to receive something back from SOLVIT before I return to the UK and I will update you all of any developments.

Once again, thank you all very sincerely for your help and interest in my case.

All, to recap, as stated in my original post above, the specific requirement of the Spanish Embassy is: "5.2. UK citizens must provide a document issued by British authorities recognizing the marriage to have the same legal effects as the UK law".

The Spanish Embassy staff are well aware that my Thai marriage is legal but for some reason they are being pedantic in insisting on this damn document. Equally the British Embassy are being just as pedantic in refusing to issue the required letter and my wife and I are the piggies in the middle left out in the cold by the pathetic antics of both Embassies. Both sides are fully aware of the impasse they have created and neither will budge. I have already considered applying to another country but to get my wife into the UK via the Surinder Singh route I will have to prove that I had made that other country my "centre of life" and obtain a residency permit for my wife, at which point I suspect I will come up against the same brick wall of needing a document from the British authorities etc. etc.

Frustrating, infuriating, sickening to know that the UK has opened her borders to all and sundry coming through Europe for an easy life on tax payers money and I am having to jump through hoops to qualify for MY human rights as a UK citizen. There really is something very wrong with the system over there and it seems I can't do a damn thing about it other than divorce my wife in Thailand and remarry her in the UK. Pathetic.

Thank you all for your further advice - I shall certainly pursue these lines and let everyone know what happens. 7by7 this was also my understanding but when I was at the Spanish Embassy they confirmed that we would not only have to pay for the visa, but that they would require sight of a return ticket back to Thailand for my wife. On the one hand they are telling me that the ordinary Schengen visa is all that we require to get my wife to Spain but on the other they are slapping on a list of additional requirements, not to mention that somewhere along the line, once we are in Spain some Spanish official will ask for the declaration from the UK that our Thai marriage has the same legal effect etc. etc. etc.

Hello again dear TV friends. This issue now has me very perplexed as I cannot make any headway at all. Incidentally I am still awaiting information from SOLVIT but I don't think even they will be able to resolve this. I am now in Bangkok to try to make some headway and I am coming up against brick wall after brick wall. I went to the Spanish Embassy yesterday and the clerk there began to tell me the same story that was previously told to my wife. I told the clerk that he was incorrect and showed him documents I had downloaded pertaining to the fact that the UK no longer requires overseas marriages to be registered and they would be regarded as legally valid provided they were legal in the country in which they were carried out.

The young man told me that he would have to consult with his supervisor but I could see from his demeanour that things were not looking favourable for me so I asked to see his supervisor. The Spanish consulate is a very small office in a multi-occupied high rise building and it turns out the "supervisor" is the Spanish Consul himself no less. I waited about 30 minutes before being shown into the Consul's office accompanied by a different member of staff. The Consul was very pleasant, and he showed me a circular from his government which made it clear that a verification document was required from all EEA member states and not just the UK. In other words the Consulate is following a directive given by the Spanish government and the problem rests with the refusal of the British government to provide a very simple letter to visa applicants in our situation.

Wishing to test the system I then went to the British Embassy and didn't even get through the front gate. The girl at the reception desk was well aware of this procedural nightmare and told me to try to "get something from the UK". There was no way I was going to get inside to pursue this. I am now at an impasse. It seems that the Spanish are rigidly enforcing this rule without exception and the British are steadfastly refusing to play ball, thereby denying me my right to have my wife live with me in any EEA country of my choosing, apart from the UK.

I can only see one solution to this problem but I wanted to seek the views of my TV friends first because my solution is rather drastic - the only possible way I can see out of this mess is to divorce my wife in Thailand, and remarry her in England when she comes for a holiday in December. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thank you all. Just to clarify, our marriage certificate WAS translated into English and stamped by the MFA. My wife was informed of the availability of a 3 month Schengen visa by the Spanish Embassy, but this is not the Family visa (which we are seeking), and I feel we are just being "fobbed off" because the tourist visa is easier for them. Furthermore, there is a charge for the tourist visa whereas the family visa is free - the cost is not the issue. The issue is that my wife will retire from her job and will not be able to return, so it is vital that we get it right first time and she qualifies for the residential status straight away. Obviously my wife is afraid that once she reaches Spain as a tourist she may be forced to leave again after 3 months.

Incidentally I contacted Solvit as suggested above and they have been in touch to ask for more information. Thanks again to all.

Thank you bobrussell and Donutz, I wasn't aware of the Solvit solution and I shall most certainly give that a try.

A couple of months back I posted regarding the Surinder Singh route for my Thai wife to eventually reside with me in the UK and I received some excellent advice. As I stated then I have a house and family in Spain so the requirement to live there for 3 months would not be a problem. As the start of the process, my wife attended the Spanish embassy in Bangkok today to apply for a Spanish Family visa with the intention of applying for a family permit once in Spain. However she has been told that there is a problem with our marriage certificate. The requirements for a Spanish Family visa (see attached) state, among other things:

"5.2. UK citizens must provide a document issued by British authorities recognizing the marriage to have the same legal effects as the UK law."

The full document is attached REG - Requirements for ESP-EU FAM ENGmod2jul.doc and I am a UK citizen. When we married in Bangkok last December part of the process entailed going to the UK embassy with a certified translation of our marriage certificate which was duly stamped by embassy officials. I would have thought that this would meet the above requirement but apparently not, therefore I am left wondering where I would obtain such a document and which of the "British authorities" would issue it. Can anyone throw any light on this please?

The Surinder Singh route looks more complicated than I first thought. Thank you 7by7 for the link to the McCarthy case, of which I was also unaware. Can you tell me where I could find more information on "Treaty rights" and what indeed are they? As always thanks for your ongoing help and support. I am going to Thailand on Tuesday for 3 weeks and we had considered lodging Ning's application for the visa so that she can return with me on 13 October but now I'm in a quandary - spend an extortionate amount of money now for a visa which may not even be granted, or await the outcome of the EEA national work requirement thing! I know it's a bit early to apply for October but Ning was keen for me to be there to lodge the application with her and after this visit I won't be going again until September, which would be too late. I think she will just have to do it alone - I have already prepared all of the evidence so there really isn't any need for me to be there. Happy days!

Thank you 7by7. The main reason I had not considered a permanent move to Spain was that I also have other children (and 1 other grandchild) living here in the UK. In addition Ning has expressed a wish to seek work here - I know from personal experience how difficult it is for a foreigner, even British, to find work in Spain and my wife would have no chance since she doesn't know a word of Spanish and my house is not in a tourist area where such job opportunities would normally be found. Conversely here in NE England there are a number of Thai restaurants where she could work and also for the past 12 months she has studied Thai massage along with her regular job with a view to potentially starting a business here. I am now wondering if, say we did move to Spain and regarded that as our normal country of residence, would Ning be able to accompany me back here for several months at a time or would she need to apply for a visa each time? I will need to look at the residency conditions in Spain, because although I own property, there has never been a requirement for me to become resident but I am registered with the government (land registry etc.) and I have a Spanish NIE number similar to a NI number here. Thank you all again for your help.

7by7 and a99az I think you may have helped me more than you know!! I had not heard of the "Surinder Singh" route and I would like you to advise me further based on the following information. About 15 years ago I lived in Spain with my former wife and 2 children. We bought a house there, and a couple of years later we bought a second house in another village as a long term restoration project. Unfortunately things went pear shaped with my ex and I returned to the UK with my son, then aged about 9. My daughter (then 16) remained in Spain and moved in with her boyfriend's family. As part of the divorce settlement my ex kept the marital home and I got the second house. Both houses were owned outright by us. The title on both properties was legally changed to reflect that each was owned outright individually by my ex and myself.

My daughter has been resident in Spain for 15 years and now has 2 children of her own with her current partner. I visit Spain 4 or 5 times a year to visit my daughter and her family, and I always live at my own house about 30 miles from my daughter. I am such a frequent visitor that the locals think I live there all year round. It would cost me nothing more than day to day living expenses to live there with Ning for 3 or 4 months to qualify under the Surinder Singh route, EXCEPT that I am a 66 year old retiree and I would not be able to prove work, although I did work in a self employed capacity 15 years ago but I have no documentation to prove this. Ning has visited Spain with me previously and she loves it there especially since the climate is more akin to Thailand (my house is in the hottest part of Spain). In fact we had already discussed living in Spain for 6 months every year over the winter but made no firm plans.

In the light of this new information can you see any way that we could use the Surinder Singh route if I am not working in Spain? I hope I can circumvent the extortionate charges imposed by my own government, this seems to be the perfect solution if we can qualify. As previously stated Ning has already taken the KET test but she has not yet been for the TB examination. Does the Surinder Singh route require these? Thank you again in anticipation of your further help. Ron

Thank you so much 7by7 and bigyin for this invaluable information. The test was indeed the KET at Vantage Siam on 2nd April just before the change over to the new arrangements (the 2 weeks I quoted was an approximation). The Statement of Results was downloaded and is not very much help! Ning will retire on 30 September and fly back to the UK with me on 13 October. The visa fee seems totally extortionate to me - when I checked recently it was £870, then a few days ago it seemed to have jumped to £945, and if it has to be paid in USD at a rate favourable to them it seems it will cost me the thick end of £1,000. The cost of flights is also a bone of contention, my return flight UK-Bangkok-UK in September/October cost £450, yet Ning's ticket 1 way from Bangkok on the same flight has cost me £570!! This is just a minor rant, the important thing is to get Ning back here to the UK so that we can be together permanently. I think the only thing we need now is the TB certificate which we will arrange when I go across to Bangkok next month. I understand this remains valid for 6 months so will still be in-date on 13 October?

Once again dear friends thank you so much for your help, if there is anything else you can tell me which might make the application process easier to understand I will be happy to hear from you.

This is my first post to the Forum so I hope other users will be patient with me! I have searched Thaivisa for answers to the following questions to no avail and I hope your very knowledgeable community will be able to help me. My questions concern the process of getting my wife to England and the requirements upon us thereafter. We have already compiled a comprehensive portfolio of information with photographs covering the past 7 years. Just for information I am a 66 year old retired UK civil servant and my Thai wife is a 52 year old civil servant who will retire in September and move to the UK in October.

1. A1 English Test. The forum talks about "pass" and "fail" of the 2 elements speaking and listening. My wife took the test 2 weeks ago in Bangkok and her statement of results shows "good" for speaking and "weak" for listening. She will not get a certificate for some weeks and we want to apply for a settlement visa for her to fly to the UK in October. Can I assume that these provisional results (and the "borderline" assessment for reading and writing) constitute a "pass"? Her overall mark was 58/100 which I interpret as a pass at A1 level, but is this correct?

2. Visits home. I anticipate that my wife should have no difficulty in obtaining the settlement visa, we have been a couple for the past 7 years during which time I have visited Bangkok 12 times and lived with my wife for periods of up to 6 weeks, and she has visited the UK 3 times. We have travelled to many countries together, we married in December 2014 in Bangkok. What we want to know is, if she is granted the (30 month?) visa, will she be able to visit her family in Thailand twice a year for periods of up to 1 month and return to the UK without difficulty?

3. NHS Surcharge. I was shocked whilst looking for the above answers to come across information on this charge. It appears to be something new, and the article states that for our situation my wife will have to pay £200 a year towards the NHS whether she uses it or not. There was an online calculator to work out how much she would have to pay as a settlement visa applicant and the sum of £600 was displayed. This has me totally confused, can anyone throw any light on this levy?

Sorry this is so long winded and inevitably I will have further questions, but for now I thank you all in anticipation of your help. Regards,

Ron Nelson (nerjaron)

So they have built flood defences to keep DM operational. Since the area surrounding the airport is generally at a lower level than the airport itself, and therefore in the event that the flood barrier is required to keep the water out, has anyone given any thought as to HOW the passengers are going to get to and from the airport, since the roads surrounding it will be impassable?

The thing is though Frankold, that for every 100 or so they target, at least 1 mug will fall for the scam. A very low "take-up" rate, but they are so active they can send out thousands of these scam emails automatically in a single day. That will provide them with a good number of potential victims, many of whom will unfortunately part with their money or possessions.