Steve2UK

@ rixalex - re Post #114 [apologies for this route - for some reason replying to your post just brings up my earlier post and not yours]

Labeling individuals is by definition not anonymous - whereas labeling just a category (grouping of un-named individuals) plainly is anonymous. Different matter, of course, if I say " that bunch of x-lovers/haters like Steve2UK, rixalex, Charlie Farnesbarnes......." etc. As I went on to say in that earlier post, I find both approaches unhelpful. You call the second "no better, if not worse" than the first - IMO not so very different from my own take. I deplore both for the reasons I gave. I'll take that a stage further: IMO dismissing what someone says even if and simply because he/she is a self-acknowledged supporter of "xyz" goes nowhere.

ahhh - did you see what Clauswitz did? He is trying to create the idea that people who don' support the red shirts, are all staunch supporters of the coup and its leaders. Very clever, Claus, very clever. Its complete bullocks, however. The world is not made up only of reds and yellows. I can hate Thaksin and what he stands for, and yet, also equally despise the methods of the yellows and the military. That is something that probably drives you crazy, because you can't find a way take your potshots then.

You're either with Thaksin, or you're simply not a 'true democrat', and probably drink blood too !

Personally I've posted several times, that any corruption should be exposed being a good thing, from the military-appointed government era or since, but not much is shown. The 'light of day' is an excellent, and much-needed, disinfectant.

If only the Red-Shirts themselves were as keen or successful, as the PAD-of-old, at exposing dodgy-practices by government and its friends, the publicity could only help reduce corruption. But perhaps this is not high on Takki's priority-list ?

Overdue that I echo my good friend Ricardo's sentiments and, come to that, at least the principles behind what LawnGnome says (kind of the same point that I made earlier).

It's sad that the current opposition don't do what an effective opposition should do - hold the government to account for what it does/doesn't do.............. and what it screws up (which all governments do). I agree that matters would improve if they could/would only cut loose from a Thaksin-led agenda. I can't forget Suthep remarking that the Democrat government seems to forget it's no longer in opposition (my inference - it should get on with governing). Pheu Thai don't seem to have sorted out their proper role either.

Interesting point in Ricardo's last sentence. My take on the present coalition is that it has enough strains within it to fracture by itself - if the real power-holders don't pull the plug first; if that's the case, the sensible approach for Thaksin and his acolytes would seem to be to just help the process along and make it happen sooner rather than later. The classic response is "the assets" - that's why it's urgent. Maybe so - but IMO it's naive to imagine that there aren't "conversations" (effectively negotiations) about that going on behind the scenes. Compare the British government's mantra that "we never, never ever negotiate with the IRA" - until we do.............

<snip>

As clausewitz has taken to labelling people Thaksin haters, i guess it's ok to label him a Thaksin lover?

<snip>

Illogical, Captain. For one thing he seems to have been referring to a category and not an individual; if you're looking to reciprocity as justification, you'd likewise refer only to a category - and not label an individual.

That said, I find that labeling even a grouping as simply "x-haters" or "x-lovers" (where "x" is usually "PAD", "Reds", "Sondhi", "Thaksin") generally unhelpful - it tends to shut down consideration of what the poster is saying because the focus shifts to who it's coming from (back to the now familiar "shoot the messenger rather than tackle the message"). I also find that concluding anyone is automatically for anything because they question or even are obviously against something else makes no sense. Unless one just wants to drop into the bottomless "my enemy's enemy is my friend" pit, I don't see the rationale.

Quite why the excesses of the Thai authorities in the past would be deemed by any rational person as excusing the excesses of the Hun Sen regime or his Khmer Rouge background is beyond me. These are well documented and Im sure people on here are quite capable of researching for themselves if they want to or doubt what is put up.

Thankfully this isnt a lame academic site where everything you say has to be backed by so called primary sourcerd material, which is probably just as well consdidering those that obsess over this kind of thing usually resort to secondary sourcing anyway;) Thankfully TV remains a site where people can post opinions and discuss things from their own perspective. Im sure there are plenty of other sites out there where those academically inclined can discuss thing son a "higher" plane than us mere mortals and as usual with academics get it as wrong as everyone else. However, I would suggest to those obsessed weith little linkies to get a little more practice in on referencing priamry sources or validated research before indulging in any "real" academic debate.

China backing Hun Sen to put Thailand down is a conspiracy that make the Finland Plan seem reasonable

Hopefully people will contiunue to put up there own opnions, ideas and analysis undeterred by the anti freedom of speech "you cant say anything unless you back it up with linkies" nazis.

"Up to a point, Lord Copper". (Secondary reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoop_%28novel%29; primary reference - the novel "Scoop" by Evelyn Waugh).

I'm all for opinions - the more (and the more varied) the better. I just like to know that that's what they are rather than them posing as statements of established fact. Certainly, just saying "so-and-so's a professor/newspaper editor/celebrity and HE thinks the same way I do" doesn't cut much mustard with me. On the other hand, I still like to see a reasonably reliable source cited to support at least some of the wilder claims one sees here. Do I qualify as an inadvertent nazi then?

And, as an aside, even if the Thai bank's own limits would permit a very large OTC withdrawal, the OP's home bank certainly would have a much lower limit on OTC daily withdrawals. So I'm guessing his home bank would reject the requests at whatever point they went over the daily limit.

Actually, no. Nearly three years ago, I used OTC with my Nationwide Debit card to withdraw 250,000 baht on one occasion and some months later 400,000 baht; these were at SCB - and before SCB introduced their limit. In the last few months, I've made several OTC withdrawals of 100,000 at SCB. That experience seems to suggest that, essentially, if the money's in the account you can withdraw it - up to the Thai bank's daily limit. That said, my UK bank (Nationwide) seems to be hot on identifying potential fraudulent transactions* - so if the account "behaviour" starts looking very unusual then alarm bells are very likely to ring.

* My card was blocked about a year ago. When I called Nationwide to find out the cause, they said "we spotted that this card is being used in Thailand". "Errr, yes.....", I said, "..... just as it has been for about two years now - and usually the same ATM". Oops......... many apologies from them and a promise to make a note on my account so that it wouldn't happen again.

Yes...that's right. And beyond the ATM limits imposed by Thai banks, which actually as in SCB's case can be much higher than more western banks' limits, Chris' home bank certainly has its own daily limits (probably less than $1000 or $500 U.S.) on cash withdrawals that can be made from his account via ATM.

That, and, even though the Thai banks can have very high limits on daily account withdrawals, their actual ATM machines typically will only dispense a maximum of 25 or so bills per transaction, which would max out at 25,000 baht per draw. So to do more, you'd have to complete the one transaction, take your card out, then start again.

I was actually thinking more about the Thai banks' over-the-counter limit. As I know from my own Nationwide account cards, their per day ATM withdrawal limit is £300 (and they have confirmed to me that they can't/won't increase it) - about 16,000 baht currently. I make that about 66 daily withdrawals to get £20,000 - and I can pretty well promise you that Nationwide would block the card sometime around Day 5 if not before. A phone call will get it un-blocked fairly quickly, but it's still not a good start.

In any event, for all the reasons you mentioned plus those I raised, it feels like neither over-the-counter nor ATM withdrawals are good for this case

A thought occurs........... if, say, SCB's o-t-c withdrawal limit is 250,000 per day - then it might just be possible to make 4 consecutive daily withdrawal of their maximum in order to arrive at about £20,000 worth of baht. It would certainly trigger something at the Nationwide end - so they would have to be informed beforehand. All being well and the money piles up in Thailand, the Thai bank would/should be able to confirm that it came in from the UK account. But.......... you'd need an unusually good and helpful Thai bank manager to be obliging.

Still feels like the transfer of sterling from UK (e.g. via SWIFT) direct to a Thai bank account is the straightforward way to go.

Chris, I will try to get you started in the right direction, and then maybe others with more direct experience in your situation can chime in...

Because the intended use of your funds transfer is to buy property, I believe the way you should move the money for that purpose is thru a SWIFT international funds transfer that you can initiate from your home bank, and have it sent onward, for a normally small fee, to the Thai bank or other destination required for your purchase.

The reason I advise this is Thailand has restrictions on the ability to move large amounts of foreign funds OUT of the country. And so, should you ever want to sell your property and take the proceeds back to your home country, as I understand it, you'll need to produce a clear, official record of how those funds came into the country, the amount involved, and that record specifying that the funds were to be used for that real estate transaction.

So in your instance, I believe, it's not just a matter of finding the method with the lowest fees or the best exchange rate. You also want a method that's going to protect your ability to retrieve your purchase funds at any point in the future, should you need to.

I'm an American, not a Brit. And I'm a renter here, not a property owner. But the advice I've recapped above is what I remember reading here on TV for people wanting to do real estate purchases in Thailand. As I mentioned above, I hope others who have actually done such transactions can either confirm my advice or correct me if I've gone astray... Good luck.

I agree with jfc - the "money trail" factor is important here. The Thai bank will have its own per day limit on over-the-counter withdrawals via debit card (from hazy memory, I think SCB's limit is 250,000 baht and Kasikorn only 20,000 baht). More to the point, £20,000 is surely enough to trigger UK bank alarm bells for fraud, money-laundering etc. Between the money-trail factor (for the Thai authorities) and keeping the UK bank happy, setting up a purpose-stated transfer (e.g. SWIFT) to a Thai account seems to make best sense. NB - as always - send sterling to the Thai account for the exchange into baht to be done there - don't buy baht in the UK and send that (the rate is worse that way).

Edit to add: In response to Chris' other question about whether there's a charge for the over-the-counter withdrawal (in a Thai bank from your UK account) - the answer is that there's no charge from the Thai bank. Because Visa handle the conversion, there is a 1% charge levied by them and nowadays passed on by Nationwide - effectively reducing the number of baht you get for your £. That applies to ATM withdrawals in Thailand and I'm fairly sure it applies to over-the-counter withdrawals likewise.

While I have enough Aeon ATMs available to me here in Chiang Mai, it still feels like a pain to have to plan to go where they are - and a few times the chosen ATM has been very busy or the machine wasn't operational. I notice many posts asking where there's an Aeon machine in xyz place - or saying that there just isn't one in xyz place (Samui, for example). To those people particularly, I recommend having a Thai account/card and using the over-the-counter Debit card withdrawal from their "home" account as I do. With interest rates being so low and (from what I see) not that much fluctuation in baht exchange rates, for me it's the most economical and hassle-free route - almost like the carefree good old days.

No banks in Samui (Lamai) accepted manual withdrawal...they just took me to the ATM outside......

BTW that unfortunately make sense, debit card are supposedly made only for ATM....at least my ATM Maestro as was confirmed by my bank before departure.....

And no Aeon in Samui....

Kosh - that "debit card are supposedly made only for ATM" is not correct.......... all debit cards that I know of are intended/accepted for shopping purposes (from stores that accept them) in the same way that credit cards are. Using the debit card for the over-the-counter bank withdrawal is effectively the same procedure as when you use it for shopping. I stress that I'm talking about debit cards and not just cash (ATM) cards. Are you sure that your card is a debit card?

Good list Steve, but you left out 2 Bangkok - one of the oldest and most enjoyable. It's all over the place, but I particularly like some of the photo items - old Bangkok etc as well as regualr commentary from that Wisurat person on the web board. Some of his translatiosn from Thai language papers, including some of the Red mags, make good reading too.

http://2bangkok.com/

Sssshhhh!!! Conscious decision, old chap. Couldn't put too many obviously pro-Red links in...... would have blown my cover - catch my drift? Mum's the word, OK?

Thanks for that, i've already found a few favourites, absolutelybangkok.com been one of them, for a good argument based on facts and not speculation. Many thanks.

Happy to oblige . Unlike some here, I assume that most TVF members are likely to manage their own separating of information wheat from agenda-driven chaff.

I'd still suggest that, when you're trying to show how much support a party has with the electorate, and whether or not TRT/PPP/PTP has "the support of the majority of the Thai people" as termad claimed, it's the proportional vote, which gives the best idea.

Allowing for what hammered described, I'll defer to your take on this - and I'm sure you realise that I wasn't trying to back up termad's claims but rather just supplying qualifying detail to what you said earlier about the neck-and-neck (my paraphrase) 2007 result. Speaking of results, as hammered points out, it's ultimately the seats won that count and not the voter (proportional or constituency) percentages. As I'm sure you know, there's no shortage of examples (US, UK etc) where the losing side actually had the higher percentage of national/popular vote - and still didn't "win" (as in become president or form the next government).

There are other English language resources out there - people should check them out and post here on TVF what they think is relevant to the discussion. Of course, quoting from/linking to blogs that contain opposing views will predictably attract the neat comment (from those who disagree with those views) that "it's only a blog" i.e. worthless. That seems a curious attitude when the same posters often seem happy to treat all Nation opinion pieces (some) packed with speculation, inaccuracies and unsupported claims almost as if they were holy writ. Quality blogs cite linked references to back up their commentary. As seen from the responses posted on them, readers are quick to identify where they think the blog writer has jumped to unsupported or irrational conclusions; the better blogs are not aimed at just lock-step devotees of the blogger's views and IMO have a valuable contribution to make.

Stop talking common sense you red shirt Takki loving fool! Some folks on here don't like it!

How DARE you call me a "fool" ???!!!

Oh, sorry, gotta go - Dubai on the line again......... what can he want THIS time?

Can somebody point me in the direction of these other English language resources or better still an English language news source that isn't completely one sided cause i'm sick to death of reading this Nation SH*TE every day.

Taking your request at face value, here's a (not complete) list of online resources that you might find useful - I invite any additions that other members feel like making. There is reasonably good if patchy coverage on the sites of international broadcasters like BBC, CNN and Al Jazeera. Similarly, there is patchy coverage of Thai issues on the sites of most UK/US newspapers; Google the broadcaster/title you prefer and do a search on their site for "Thai" or "Thailand".

ONLINE NEWS MEDIA

Bangkok Post - link forbidden here but easy enough to Google (particularly good comments section with each item - unlike The Nation)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia.html

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/

http://www.straitstimes.com/Home.html

BLOGS

http://absolutelybangkok.com/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog *

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/ *

http://news.inbangkok.org/

http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/index_en.php

http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/

http://www.prachatai.com/english/ *

http://siamreport.blogspot.com/ *

http://&lt;URL Automatically Removed&gt;/

http://thailandjumpedtheshark.blogspot.com/ *

http://www.bangkokbugle.com/

http://nationsstate.blogspot.com/

http://www.tumblerblog.com/

http://siampolitics.wordpress.com/

http://www.jotasean.com/

http://philipgolingai.blogspot.com/ *

http://thegreglowe.com/

http://nganadeeleg.blogspot.com/

http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/

http://newley.com/

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/ * (now blocked on my Thai TOT connection but not on others apparently)

* Sites I find that I look at and find useful most often - your mileage may vary and you'll soon settle down with what works for you. As mentioned earlier, they usually provide links to other sources/resources - up to you how interested you are in following them. Bangkok Pundit is a firm favourite - not least because he often provides English translations from Matichon, ASTV/Manager, Thai Rath etc.

Now I'll "sit back and wait" for the torrent of abuse telling us that I am corrupting you and trying to convert/hoodwink you. Ah well, that's the looney tunes nature of parts of ThaiVisa these days........

<snip?

But didn't the Democratic Party gain an equal share of the vote, as the PPP got (about 40%), in December-2007 ?

<snip>

Partly true - for the proportional voting where the Democrats actually got 0.03% more than PPP. Not so for the constituency voting - where PPP got 6.33% more than the Democrats. As the attached results table shows, the combination of proportional and constituency votes gave 233 seats to PPP and 165 seats to the Democrats (82 to other parties - all of whom joined PPP in the coalition).

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Thailand )

[Edit to fix link]

<snip>

Bullying isnt much welcomed' by anybody, anywhere!

How true.........

I understand the cooperation between The Nation and Thaivisa, but sometimes it's becoming quite dull with the one-sided stream of Thailand news, exclusively by The Nation, published on News Clippings.

Isn't there anything else -source wise- the audience on Thaivisa can "consume" other than The Nation ?

LaoPo

Technically, it's news reporting - citing one un-named cabinet source, then citing Suthep, then citing a named spokesman citing Suthep..... meaning you could be forgiven for thinking it's all from Suthep..... but then again - so what? It's sloppy writing that wouldn't be acceptable in most "quality" news media but there's no shortage of examples like this in both The Nation and Bangkok Post - and thus there's no reason to dwell on TVF's business partner. Except, of course, we don't get to see the Post material reproduced here.

There are other English language resources out there - people should check them out and post here on TVF what they think is relevant to the discussion. Of course, quoting from/linking to blogs that contain opposing views will predictably attract the neat comment (from those who disagree with those views) that "it's only a blog" i.e. worthless. That seems a curious attitude when the same posters often seem happy to treat all Nation opinion pieces (some) packed with speculation, inaccuracies and unsupported claims almost as if they were holy writ. Quality blogs cite linked references to back up their commentary. As seen from the responses posted on them, readers are quick to identify where they think the blog writer has jumped to unsupported or irrational conclusions; the better blogs are not aimed at just lock-step devotees of the blogger's views and IMO have a valuable contribution to make.

The last part of your post.... "Incidentally don't take anyone seriously who starts talking about Soophon keeping up the Nation's readership base.For anyone who's financially aware look at the paper's accounts.Without some form of external subsidy I doubt whether it has more than a year before the owners put it out of its misery.Not only is it completely unprofitable but is also despite recent cutbacks hemorrhaging cash. "

Since we seem to have a number of posters on this current thread talking about quality journalism, checking of facts etc., perhaps you could enlighten us about your paragraph above. Is it:

1. Factual and from what source.

2. Your opinion.

Take a wild guess what "look at the paper's accounts" means.These were published on New Mandala or possibly BP quite recently.The parent company is listed and thus some financial information is available on the SET site.The rag's probable longevity is of course my own opinion.

Probably BP - that's where I saw an earlier report: http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2009/02/...other-loss.html

(onward links to http://www.bangkokbugle.com/2009/02/nation...m-loss-for.html & from there to http://www.bangkokbugle.com/2009/08/nation...first-half.html & http://www.set.or.th/set/newsdetails.do?ty...e=&country= )

Still, maybe seriously-rich (as opposed to "unusually wealthy" ) George will help 'em out?

[George........ honestly....... it was a j-o-k-e....... ]

<snip>

A local media report expresses thet there are rumors that he may have offert up to half of this amount for anyone able to retrieve it for him!

<snip>

Thaksin offering some kind of financial reward/commission seems not impossible - this is Thailand, after all. Rather less impossible than him somehow "seizing the frozen assets" in mid-coup while also getting 300 enemies assassinated etc etc (just parts of another anonymous rumour from the NPP secretary-general's version of what he terms the "Dubai Declaration" - http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30117287 ).

But I digress.......... source for the reports of the rumours you mention, please.

During the past two weeks, successively, one poster said he'd refuse to respond to my posts because I either genuinely didn't understand his posts or I consciously misrepresented them; another poster tried to read me his own riot act concerning my Thaksin posts although the provisions of his own riot act had nothing to do with the TVF rules he only vaguely and generally referred to; now another poster is trying to attack my posting English.

Their common ground is one man and one color, Thaksin and red.

I'll listen to a critique provided it comes from a balanced source which I can respect whether the person is an antagonist or a fellow traveller. Circus acts are quite another thing, however.

Still psyched-out with reds-under-beds; and still not so much as a shred of evidence to even begin to support the repeated mud-slinging.... what is it - five times now?

For myself, I'll listen to/read any critique wherever it's from - probably more attentively if it's from an opposing viewpoint (not much to learn from those who just agree with my views) - if it looks even halfway rational. "Antagonist" - very revealing choice of word; "fellow traveller"?........ "Joe McCarthy - come on down!"

I try (reasonably successfully, despite the temptations) not to attack or even comment here on members' "posting English" - there are enough diverse nationalities and backgrounds on TVF to make the notion generally absurd. The symptoms of dictionary-swallowing (often minus the meanings) isn't confined to any one group let alone individual and I'm grateful that I have enough knowledge of English and other languages to see past most verbiage/mangling and usually get through to what the other poster was trying to say....... and then try to respond to that - i.e. the substance. In any case, I find that BS tends to look and smell the same no matter what form it appears in.

For the record and benefit of others, "refuse.... etc" was: "I really can't be bothered to waste time and effort framing sensible and detailed responses to people who evidently either can't or won't read them except through a red mist (pun intended) and who then go on ad nauseam to misrepresent them so comprehensively". That stands.

Speculation. Mildly amusing. Will probably encourage all the Nation despisers to have a go.

Sorry, but it seems that many "booooo'ers" in this thread simply missed the word "OPINION"....

and the fact that some people here are simply "pi_ed off"!

<snip>

But....... I do suggest that OP's like this one really should identify what the piece is - at least to separate opinion from what (if only in theory for The Nation*) is "news reporting". Perhaps Admin could take a look at this? I also think it's strange that these article OP's seem never to include a clickable link so that we can go to the source directly - is there a valid reason for that?

<snip>

A part-correction to the above. I see now (was it there before?) that "OPINION" appears as a subtitle in the News Clippings menu - and thus also after the topic title. If it wasn't there before, thanks to Admin/Mods for the addition; if it was there before, it reinforces the point that the body of the article could usefully carry the label. Unlike Samuian, I doubt "booooo'ers" have a monopoly on missing it........ but then, some just get off on this kind of content irrespective of whether it's speculation, fact or fiction.

Speculation. Mildly amusing. Will probably encourage all the Nation despisers to have a go.

Sorry, but it seems that many "booooo'ers" in this thread simply missed the word "OPINION"....

and the fact that some people here are simply "pi_ed off"!

Nothing further to say about ThaiVisa's bedmate except that if people really don't know it for what it is by now, then IMO they either haven't been paying attention or they just don't want to know.

I'm going to agree (partly) with Samuian. Yes, yes - I'm also going to go and lie down for a while to get over it . Why only partly? The Sopon piece does appear in the "Opinion" section on The Nation website - and is thus clearly labeled for what it is there. In the reproduction of it in the OP, there is no mention of "Opinion". As opinion, it is plainly not "reporting" - therefore a] it's pointless to criticise it for not meeting what should be standard reporting criteria - and b] people will draw their own conclusions about the rational merits and detail of his arguments.

But....... I do suggest that OP's like this one really should identify what the piece is - at least to separate opinion from what (if only in theory for The Nation*) is "news reporting". Perhaps Admin could take a look at this? I also think it's strange that these article OP's seem never to include a clickable link so that we can go to the source directly - is there a valid reason for that?

* I don't exclude the Bangkok Post from this. They recently introduced something they call "News Think" pieces which always carry a byline of "abc xyz : Reporter". They're listed in the Post's "News" section and are plainly anything but news reporting. As many have commented to the Post since this started, it's already hard enough to separate news reporting from opinion/speculation in much of what they publish - without creating a special hybrid category for yet more of it.

Breaking News

UPDATE : 1 December 2009

Pheu Thai MP Sentenced to 1 Month in Jail for Physically Assaulting Democrat MP

Pheu Thai MP Karun Hosakul has been sentenced to 1 month in jail, with a 2 year suspension, for physically attacking Democrat MP Somkiat Pongpaiboon.

-- Tan Network 01-12-2009

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Good. May several others (red and yellow alike) join him in there...yes yes wishful thinking i know.

Always good to be able to agree with you, Lawngnome. Well....... it's only the second time, but I like to think positive.

I believe so, probably SJ has it on file.

Seems you were right..........

It's pretty simply to figure...

If you use almost any foreign ATM card in an ATM machine belonging to any of the Thailand-based banks, you'll likely get hit with a 150 baht fee by that Thai bank for making an ATM cash withdrawal. (There are some rare reported exceptions to this, mainly relating to cards belonging to one UK bank when used at one Thai bank's ATMs).

If you use a Thailand-based bank's ATM card in that same bank's ATM machine, you'll likely avoid any fee. And if you use a Thailand-based bank's ATM card in an ATM belonging to a different Thailand-based bank, you'll probably pay some small fee like 20 or 25 baht or so. For the Thailand bank ATM cards, the fee policies vary from bank to bank, so the above comments are general notions that will change a bit bank to bank.

Pretty much the only known exception at present for avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee charged to non-Thailand ATM cards involves making withdrawals from AEON ATMs. AEON does business here as a credit card company with ATM machines. But it really is a Japan based company, not quite the same as the regular Thailand banks.

Would having an account in a Thai bank with an ATM card alleviate this additional expense?

With a to the tireless jfc, I would just add that using a Thai bank's ATM card in that same bank's ATM "x" distance from where your account was opened seems to also trigger a fee (about 20-ish baht) - "x" seems mainly to mean outside your home town and certainly in a different province. Still, it's nothing compared to 150 baht a pop - and likely doesn't arise that much unless you travel a lot.

Having originally identified Aeon as (then) one of the few and (now) effectively the only fee-free route(s) - and having used their ATMs for quite a while, I finally got fed up with it and reverted to using my UK bank (Nationwide) Debit card over-the-counter to occasionally pull a six-figure baht sum from my UK account and deposit it in my SCB and Kasikorn accounts. I now happily use one or other of the Thai cards in just the same way as I did previously with my UK cards - no fee at any stage and good/standard exchange rate. Kind of "no mess, no fuss"........

While I have enough Aeon ATMs available to me here in Chiang Mai, it still feels like a pain to have to plan to go where they are - and a few times the chosen ATM has been very busy or the machine wasn't operational. I notice many posts asking where there's an Aeon machine in xyz place - or saying that there just isn't one in xyz place (Samui, for example). To those people particularly, I recommend having a Thai account/card and using the over-the-counter Debit card withdrawal from their "home" account as I do. With interest rates being so low and (from what I see) not that much fluctuation in baht exchange rates, for me it's the most economical and hassle-free route - almost like the carefree good old days.

<snip>

Oh yeah, that's right, you are prescient! Not to mention a devotee of the convicted fugitive former PM Thakki

Can't wait to see the grounds for this latest bout of mud-slinging - but then I'm still waiting to see even a scrap of evidence for the same accusations flung at me. Easy to talk the talk, seems walking the walk comes harder........