Ferangled

Agree with 2unique above, as bad as this attack was, there seems to be more to this story. Not in any way defending the attack but why at 5 months pregnancy is she out and about like that? Not saying it's her fault but there doesn't seem to be good judgement involved.

I don’t agree.

It appears robbery was the motive and perhaps the girl fought back that provoked the four men to restrain her by using violence.

This doesn’t seem like rocket science to me and whatever the girl was doing out during the late hours is totally irrelevant.

Exactly, well said, totally irrelevant not to mention hurtful to any friends and family of hers that might be reading this.

And please don't twist my words with your own poorly written prose. I did not write "people expect their Ambassador to conform to given ethnic criteria", these are your words not mine.

I actually wrote "While the skin colour of an ambassador should make no difference whatsoever, the reality is until every person on the planet has views in line with that of the politically correct "BBC ethos" it does. People expect a UK Ambassador to look, talk and act a certain way, rightly or wrongly and that does effect how successful they are in that position, rightly or wrongly."

Read it, try your best to understand it and reply with some level of intelligence and accuracy to what I have actually written, not what you have interpreted it to mean. Thank you.

A life should never be taken full stop, this is why the human race is on self destruction mode, talk before thinking,act with out thinking!!!

Maybe the world is in such a pickle because of people that think like you! Here are a few examples of scum that have no right to live once caught.

1. Child rapists.

2. Woman beaters and rapists.

3. Serial killers

4. Drug lords.

5. Contract Murderers

6. Terrorists

7. Drug Pushers

8. Career Criminals

9. Dictators and War criminals like Hitler, Sadum Haussan, Kudaffee etc

I am sure with some extra thought this list could easily be expanded. But hopefully you get the point. Maybe you acted without thinking!

True as the day is long.

Why let scum live when all they do is cause suffering.

Mitigating circumstances are all good and well but, if you do the crime then you got to be ready to do the time (Or suffer that countries consequences)

And if you were fitted up? Forced into it? Incorrectly found guilty? No that never happens in this fairy tale world...

Incidentally I notice you make a decided point of listing child rapists & women rapists as seperate cases but no mention of men? In your rather jumbled set of principles I guess it's ok to rape another man? Is that prison mentality creeping in or too much time spent with the katoeys?

Just an observation... seems strange to draw any differences. If I was composing a red neck list of people I'd like to kill (funny never entered into my list of to dos) I would have rapist listed, I wouldn't feel the need to differ between them... I guess similarly raping animals doesn't come into it? Welsh by any chance?

and this came from Thaksin i take it !

you cant convict a man/women of a crime with a half hearted investigation and then kill them within 60 days, how many innocent people set up will lose thier lives?

If a person is found with vast amounts of Yabba/Ice in their possession then why not a speedy execution ?

1) Because they haven't killed anybody

2) Because the death penalty is evil

Drug dealing and drug-taking should be decriminalised and replaced by government-controlled and taxed supplies. The taxes would pay for addiction, rehab and advice centres. That is the only reasonable way forward. Drugs have always been with us; drugs will always be with us. Their trade and use have to be controlled and monitored sensibly, not attacked by the security forces as if the traders and users were some enemy army.

Totally agree. I think rather than ask why not a speedy execution, you should be asking why execution at all?

US prohibition anyone? By making a substance illegal you are creating a lucrative underground market, criminalising millions of people and wasting $billions trying to stop it's trade and use. It's just plain stupid. This is all a game that makes the players in control very rich while the general populace bear the brunt of the problems.

How long have substances like opium, cocaine and pot been around for? Why is it that only when made illegal are these suddenly a scourge on society?

What would happen if coffee was made illegal tomorrow? Would people stop drinking it? No, they would become vulnerable to exploitation by the powers that be, while the controlling coffee growers, importers and distributors make deals with the same powers that be to ensure that the supply continues and they all get very wealthy...

Legalise it, tax it, control it... free up $billions worldwide, improve healthcare, education etc. Does anyone remember (or has researched) why pot was originally made illegal and by whom??? It certainly wasn't out of motivation for the good of the world...

Killing them quicker should really help serve as a deterrent. We know already that criminals weigh the penalty of their crime greatly before committing them .. surely anyone dealing drugs only does it because they know they will only serve 20 to 30 years (or life) in a Thai prison as opposed to be executed. Clearly they are not thinking simply in terms of not getting caught because anybody is happy to serve 20+ years in prison to make a few bucks. But now that executions will move quicker and shave 1 or 2 years off their time on death row, certainly many will now rethink if it is worth it to sell drugs.

This is simply wishful thinking on your part. Take the US for example. How many murders do still occur there despite knowing they'll get the death penalty in a lot of states if caught? How many people still deal drugs there despite the fact that they won't be eligible for parole? Or singapore, they even kill people for smuggling marijuana into the country and there's still people doing it. And if you admit your guilt in court you don't even get the death penalty in Thailand. This will have very little impact on the drug trade in Thailand.

Did you actually read my post? And you didn't sense any sarcasm?

Given the wide ranging views expressed on this forum, I'm not surprised! While common sense dictates that you were being sarcastic, the evidence based on posts on this forum suggest that is a view that is actually shared and supported by many. Scary stuff... the hang em high brigade have no place in any modern society, I thought we'd moved on from the middle ages, maybe not...

I think the fact that worldwide the education system is based on financial criteria eludes people. The rich have always had the option of sending their children to private schools, the poor don't. Regardless of what happens in the state school system, the rich always have the option of sending their children to privately run, privately funded schools, generally with much better facilities, better paid teachers and a better standard of education. On this basis the system is already corrupt to the core and not just in Thailand!

In my personal opinion the only free/ state funded school system that caters for the ability of students and not the wealth of parents is that of the grammer schools in the UK. It doesn't matter how much money your parents have, if you can't pass the entrance exam, you're not offered a place. Funny that these are constantly under fire from people for being elitist and unfair! You can never please everyone I guess...

As it stands given a choice (and I realise I'm fortunate to have one but then again I work hard for it) between paying unregulated tea money for places at state schools, or paying for private education, my children are being privately educated in Thailand. What does puzzle me is that I pay far less per year than some of the figures that have been banded around as "tea money" entry into state schools... if these figures are to be believed why would these parents not enroll their children into private education instead?

I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to understand this issue inside out but am very interested in the subject of education in Thailand as a whole, mainly as a parent who wants the best for my children and have major concerns about the standard of education both in Thailand and back in the UK.

not true. 22 years ago in the UK, the grammar school that i attended routinely took "donations" from families of students that failed the entrance exam. similarly, they also took good sports students into the school who clearly werent the brightest buttons in the box.

this was not exclusive to my school but also to the other grammar schools in towns and cities nearby.

I guess we all have different experiences and corruption obviously runs rife in all countries! In my case we had to sit an exam called an 11+, without passing this, you weren't considered for enrollment into any grammar school in the area...

Out of interest how did you come to find out about these "donations"? Were they kept behind closed doors or was it out in the open and obvious to all?

same as me, 11 plus examination......everyone (students) always told the results they got in the entrance exams. i suppose unaware that their parents had an idea in mind. getting a grade A then meant you were a nerd so students who failed openly admitted it. then we saw them in our grammar school for the start of the new term. the sporty types were a bit more open however and the school would allow them to retake their tests (school paid) until they passed.

Thinking about it I don't know why I am surprised, looking back I did have a few classmates who weren't the sharpest tools in the box! Certainly the importance of sport was pushed high at our school, I recall learning early on that being on the Rugby team meant no detention, because generally these clashed with either matches or training... we got away with all sorts. That said I enjoyed my time there, didn't do too badly for it and would consider the same for my children if such schools existed over here.

As it stands our current choice is between a 100% thai, dilapidated, underfunded state school, a better funded state school with good rep, 95% thai, an expensive but fairly grounded private 50/50 thai/ ferang school or a ridiculously expensive, very elitist 99% ferang school...

My eldest is currently attending the expensive 50/50 school, seems to be doing well and certainly enjoys it but this is only early primary school stage. It's the secondary education that I'm trying to get my head around and work out what the best options are...

I think the fact that worldwide the education system is based on financial criteria eludes people. The rich have always had the option of sending their children to private schools, the poor don't. Regardless of what happens in the state school system, the rich always have the option of sending their children to privately run, privately funded schools, generally with much better facilities, better paid teachers and a better standard of education. On this basis the system is already corrupt to the core and not just in Thailand!

In my personal opinion the only free/ state funded school system that caters for the ability of students and not the wealth of parents is that of the grammer schools in the UK. It doesn't matter how much money your parents have, if you can't pass the entrance exam, you're not offered a place. Funny that these are constantly under fire from people for being elitist and unfair! You can never please everyone I guess...

As it stands given a choice (and I realise I'm fortunate to have one but then again I work hard for it) between paying unregulated tea money for places at state schools, or paying for private education, my children are being privately educated in Thailand. What does puzzle me is that I pay far less per year than some of the figures that have been banded around as "tea money" entry into state schools... if these figures are to be believed why would these parents not enroll their children into private education instead?

I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to understand this issue inside out but am very interested in the subject of education in Thailand as a whole, mainly as a parent who wants the best for my children and have major concerns about the standard of education both in Thailand and back in the UK.

not true. 22 years ago in the UK, the grammar school that i attended routinely took "donations" from families of students that failed the entrance exam. similarly, they also took good sports students into the school who clearly werent the brightest buttons in the box.

this was not exclusive to my school but also to the other grammar schools in towns and cities nearby.

I guess we all have different experiences and corruption obviously runs rife in all countries! In my case we had to sit an exam called an 11+, without passing this, you weren't considered for enrollment into any grammar school in the area...

Out of interest how did you come to find out about these "donations"? Were they kept behind closed doors or was it out in the open and obvious to all?

I think the fact that worldwide the education system is based on financial criteria eludes people. The rich have always had the option of sending their children to private schools, the poor don't. Regardless of what happens in the state school system, the rich always have the option of sending their children to privately run, privately funded schools, generally with much better facilities, better paid teachers and a better standard of education. On this basis the system is already corrupt to the core and not just in Thailand!

In my personal opinion the only free/ state funded school system that caters for the ability of students and not the wealth of parents is that of the grammer schools in the UK. It doesn't matter how much money your parents have, if you can't pass the entrance exam, you're not offered a place. Funny that these are constantly under fire from people for being elitist and unfair! You can never please everyone I guess...

As it stands given a choice (and I realise I'm fortunate to have one but then again I work hard for it) between paying unregulated tea money for places at state schools, or paying for private education, my children are being privately educated in Thailand. What does puzzle me is that I pay far less per year than some of the figures that have been banded around as "tea money" entry into state schools... if these figures are to be believed why would these parents not enroll their children into private education instead?

I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to understand this issue inside out but am very interested in the subject of education in Thailand as a whole, mainly as a parent who wants the best for my children and have major concerns about the standard of education both in Thailand and back in the UK.

Scorecard/ Reasonableman - I'm interested, what would your approach be to stop the existing culture of bribery for school seats? Would it be to make it illegal?

Oh, it is already?... that hasn't worked then... .

What do you suggest? Should the education minister just ignore the subject as per his predecessors and let it continue as is behind closed doors and out of the public eye?

If a problem exists turning a blind eye to it doesn't improve the situation, bringing it into the public eye, addressing it and trying to regulate it can.

Would you prefer that noone raised the issue and it just carried on behind closed doors? If we can't see it and noone discusses it then that's just fine and dandy....

"Donations to schools - its such an innocent sounding phrase. Conjures images of smiling parents handing over money to the school, safe in the knowledge that the money will be used to improve the library, pay for the new computers, repairs to the school roof, etc. In reality it goes straight into the school directors pocket. Because lets be honest at the end of the day who will be the one authorizing the school accounts which go to the MoE??"

That's the whole point, it goes straight into the school directors pocket, so shouldn't someone try to outline this system and change it, rather than just ignoring it?! That's what happens now and has been happening for years, what will happen if all donations have to be declared, put through the books and the use of the money scrutinized?

Is it a perfect solution? No, but it's better to try and change it than just ignore it.

Clearly the issues of drug use and donations to schools are totally different, how can you take one person's suggested solution to a certain problem and twist it to apply to a completely different topic?! Regulating donations to state schools and legalising "drugs" are not the same at all.

That said taking your own arguments you make a good case for the legalisation of controlled substances - "The reality is drug use will continue to be prevalent in Thai (and all other) societies despite the best government efforts to stamp it out. That is the reality. So lets legalize all forms of drugs so that the flow of drug money is transparent and we the government can use that money to help hospitals provide better care to their patients."

I find it difficult to argue against this stance as clearly and by your own admission making them illegal has had the opposite effect, it criminalises large elements of society and forms the basis for a highly lucrative unregulated business. Legal means regulated, taxed and controlled, illegal clearly means the opposite in reality.

Let's not even start on what is deemed acceptable drug use and what isn't, it's only through social conditioning and legality that alcohol is seen as an acceptable drug when the medical facts show it to be much more harmful than many "illegal" substances. If anything the fact that many of these drugs are illegal makes them more appealing to the younger generation's instinct to rebel against the establishment. I digress...

How do any of you expect the current government to stop this system of under the table bribes to schools when it is so ingrained into the Thai mindset. Let's be honest this isn't a system monopolised by the education sector, it is a trend that runs through the entire Thai society. The point that most seem to miss is that this system hasn't been created by the current minister, he's trying to address the problem, he didn't make the situation.

At least they are bringing this issue to light and trying to govern it. If it is made transparent at least there's a chance that the money won't end up in the pockets of the "chauffeur driven headmaster", but might actually be used to do something constructive for the school.

It's not like donations to state schools aren't made in the west, they are, many survive on these and fund raisers because government funding is inadequate. There are schools all over US and UK with sports halls, playing fields, science labs etc named after wealthy patrons and be sure their children wouldn't be refused entry into said schools. I see nothing wrong with that at all; it's to the benefit of the general populace of the school and local community.

What I do find despicable is that left as it stands this custom of under the table bribery leaves parents vulnerable to exploitation from teachers with no idea how their "donation" money is to be spent.

All the while parents are willing to borrow money so that Somchai can go to the school with the shiny sign, this sort of corruption will exist in Thailand. It's the same as the 10000s of Thai's up to their ears in debt with mobile phones worth 3 months salary, and cars worth 10 years salary, purely so that they can gain face and perceived social standing... the fact is you can still make a call with a 500 bt phone, still drive to work with a 50,000 bt truck so why are there so many Thais with 20,000 bt iPhones and 1,000,000 bt Fortuners that can't afford these luxuries? This issue goes alot further than just education...

Scorecard, your post says it all; how do you expect the current government to stop this system of under the table bribes to schools when it is so ingrained into the Thai mindset. Let's be honest this isn't a system monopolised by the education sector, it is a trend that runs through the entire Thai society.

At least they are bringing this issue to light and trying to govern it. If it is made transparent at least there's a chance that the money won't end up in the pockets of the "chauffeur driven headmaster", but might actually be used to do something constructive for the school.

It's not like donations to state schools aren't made in the west, they are, many survive on these and fund raisers because government funding is inadequate. There are schools all over US and UK with sports halls, playing fields, science labs etc named after wealthy patrons and be sure their children wouldn't be refused entry into said schools. I see nothing wrong with that at all; it's to the benefit of the general populace of the school and local community.

What I do find despicable is that left as it stands this custom of under the table bribery leaves parents vulnerable to exploitation from teachers with no idea how their "donation" money is to be spent.

All the while parents are willing to borrow money so that Somchai can go to the school with the shiny sign, this sort of corruption will exist in Thailand. It's the same as the 10000s of Thai's up to their ears in debt with mobile phones worth 3 months salary, and cars worth 10 years salary, purely so that they can gain face and perceived social standing... the fact is you can still make a call with a 500 bt phone, still drive to work with a 50,000 bt truck so why are there so many Thais with 20,000 bt iPhones and 1,000,000 bt Fortuners? This issue goes alot further than just education...

Reasonableman: Thanks, hard to keep track given most of the comments on here, I thought is was more about oneupmanship between self appointed Ferang Red/ Yellow shirt sympathisers than putting the education system to rights. Read back a few posts and you should be able to pinpoint the post I was replying to...

Thailandman: Glad to hear you're well off and happy, random comment but TIT. If you want to live in a terrible place, your words not mine, that would be your choice, whatever makes you happy! Of course if you don't like it you could move or do something constructive to change it...

Sorry, important, on topic post, must have missed it... shame. I find only one of every three posts I make actually get posted here... must be the corrupt Thais controlling my free speech I guess.

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...