xray

No, just phobia.

I dont think so. Not when the stakes are so high and the threat so real and ongoing.

I dont see phobia on this thread, just people with an understandable desire for security when they fly.

Never said their shouldn't be searches or scanning. All in favour my self.

The man at the centre of this story never complained about it either.

The post of mine you are responding to was about prejudicial thinking not security.

I see that the Moderators have removed some posts on this thread. I missed those, but have read all that remain. My take is that people are indignant because of the apology, not because of anything said by the cleric at the center of this story. Airport security passing a hand held metal detector wand over any part of a person or their attire, in my opinion, does not call for an apology, regardless of who the person being screened is. I believe the cleric has said much the same. I imagine that someone who has lost a loved one in a terrorist attack could find the apology made in this case insulting.

No, just phobia.

I don’t think so. Not when the stakes are so high and the threat so real and ongoing.

I don’t see phobia on this thread, just people with an understandable desire for security when they fly.

“In the end we shall have had enough of cynicism, skepticism and humbug, and we shall want to live more musically.”

― Vincent van Gogh

Interesting quote of someone who intentionally severed his own ear.

After reading some of the more islamaphobic posts on this thread I know how he felt.

Phobia or prudent caution, it seems to me Vincent and many clerics have something in common.

“In the end we shall have had enough of cynicism, skepticism and humbug, and we shall want to live more musically.”

― Vincent van Gogh

Interesting quote of someone who intentionally severed his own ear.

But there is serious doubt that he did.

Serious doubt by some. There are also those who claim that van Gogh's fatal gunshot was not self inflicted. They may be correct, but I haven't yet been convinced there is enough evidence to warrant rewriting the 'traditional' versions of events.

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/143102

To security, it's a place where something can be hidden.

Religion should have nothing to do with this.

Any religion.

If Buddhists wore turbans, same issue.

If fundamentalists of any flavor can't conform with airplane security, they shouldn't travel.

The public's right not to be blown up trumps any of their religious expression rights.

Perhaps you missed this info...

The office holder of Shaykh al-Islām in Thailand is appointed by HM on the advise of the PM.

http://en.wikipedia....IslÄm#Thailand

So what? that does not place him above the law, above the rest of the passengers or entitled to bypass security- that has only been in place since Islamic terrorists got onto three planes in 2001

Four planes; each taken over using devices easy to conceal in a turban.

“In the end we shall have had enough of cynicism, skepticism and humbug, and we shall want to live more musically.”

― Vincent van Gogh

Interesting quote of someone who intentionally severed his own ear.

Over the years on Thaivisa, I have seen that family members of deceased loved ones do look for information and help on this forum. On occasion they have joined the forum and made posts.

Have the full results of the autopsy and toxicology tests been done and reported yet? I thought they were going to be done last Thursday? Or have I missed something?

A preliminary unofficial autopsy has been done in Thailand and reported in a major English language Bangkok newspaper. I would link to it but I believe it is against forum rules; it can be found online. This preliminary autopsy report does not establish cause of death; it is hoped that pending Thai toxicology test results will do that.

It is reported that the family would also like to have medical tests made in the UK. I believe this link can be posted here (apologies if this is not the case).

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mother-of-backpacker-who-died-on-thai-island-the-last-words-we-said-were-i-love-you-10001861.html

If social media has caused the mother grief, she should refrain from reading posts on social media. If the family desires possible worthwhile information from social media, perhaps a friend of the family could sift through it for them.

The problem is that these things come up on internet searches and are also reported by mainstream press. But maybe it is more important for uniformed internet detectives to spread their nonsense than it is to allow this mother to be curious about her daughters death overseas and see if anyone like a friend she met may be sharing something about her daughter she didn't know or who she might be able to reach out to.

"uniformed internet detectives"...would that include you and I?

This subject comes up often. These online forums are created for people to post to, with moderators to weed out posts they feel are inappropriate. As long as a forum like Thaivisa exists, people are going to post to it; all kinds of people making all kinds of posts. If social media is going to cause someone grief, they should refrain from reading posts on social media themselves, because there will be a chance of reading something hurtful as long as there is social media to be accessed.

Seems Social Media Detectives have done another good job at making a tragedy more painful for the family as the mother now has gone from saying her daughter died of natural causes to fearing a cover-up.. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mother-of-backpacker-who-died-on-thai-island-the-last-words-we-said-were-i-love-you-10001861.html

She said: I dont want to fly out there, I dont think I can face the trip. We want the autopsy to be done in the UK and not Thailand.

We are worried they could cover something up especially after the murders last year.

Christina did not have a pre-existing medical condition. She said she had been given antibiotics for a chest infection, so it couldve been a blood clot. We just dont know at this stage.

Supposedly she had a chest infection and The Nation is reporting that "had consumed a potentially fatal combination of alcohol and Valium, police said Tuesday citing preliminary autopsy data." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/UK-tourist-found-dead-in-Thailand-consumed-Valium--30252744.html

As is typical, lots of contradictory information initially out there but what seems consistent is she was taking drugs recreationally, drinking a lot and became sick in the days before her death and that there are no signs of foul play.

If social media has caused the mother grief, she should refrain from reading posts on social media. If the family desires possible worthwhile information from social media, perhaps a friend of the family could sift through it for them.

Thanks for the Mayo Clinic link. They advise against drinking alcohol while taking antibiotics.

http://www.wisegeekhealth.com/what-is-the-interaction-between-tramadol-and-xanax.htm

"The principal concern about tramadol and Xanax® is that their interaction may endanger improperly supervised patients who take too much of either drug. Larger doses of the two taken together could cause death. Drugs like these that impact breathing may cause sleep apnea, from which people may be too sedated to wake. Most of the time when people have a stop-breathing episode they return to consciousness enough to resume breathing. The cumulative effect of these drugs could cause too much sedation, risking the chance that people wont wake up enough to recommence breathing."

Adding the depressant of alcohol to tramadol and xanax seems like it could increase the chances of a bad result.

Come on, let the conspiracy games start.

Anyone cared to read some news that may not be so favoring for a murder conspiracy?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/christina-annesley-dead-live-updates-5023640

Christina 'had felt unwell'

It appears from her Twitter feed, that tragic Christina had been feeling unwell in the days before her death.

She wrote in one post: "Great, just as I finally make friends I have to shell out £60 for antibiotics and now can't afford to go out with them. <deleted> everything."

On Saturday she remarked how "two weeks of solid drinking" had left her feeling unwell.

I've read warnings of the potential for fake meds being sold, sometimes unbeknownst to those selling them. Hopefully that is not the case here. I don't recall reading of any antibiotic-alcohol mix that could be life threatening, but perhaps there are.

"The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death"

I have said this in another thread, everyone is assuming that whoever had sex with the girl that night was also responsible for her murder.

Without meaning any disrespect to the girl, this is a very dangerous assumption for investigators to make.

How many people have been cleared of murder because their DNA didn't match that from samples from the semen?

And have the samples from the semen matched any other samples taken at the crime scene?

There have been reports that claim rape and others that claim no rape. I believe I read in an online news report that DNA of two Asian men found in the female victim matched DNA on a cigarette butt found at the scene.

A recent report (one day ago) in the Daily Mail (found online) quotes a Thai police officer as stating that rape was the motive for the attack.

This report appeared some days ago.

http://www.mirror.co.uk:80/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-killers-brit-4281344

"Police are now believed to be concentrating on hunting down the men after DNA discovered on Hannah Witheridge's body matched DNA on a nearby cigarette butt.

Police chief Kiattipong Khaosamang today revealed that the cigarette was discovered about 50 metres from the scene in Koh Tao where Miss Witheridge and David Miller were killed."

"The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death"

I have said this in another thread, everyone is assuming that whoever had sex with the girl that night was also responsible for her murder.

Without meaning any disrespect to the girl, this is a very dangerous assumption for investigators to make.

How many people have been cleared of murder because their DNA didn't match that from samples from the semen?

And have the samples from the semen matched any other samples taken at the crime scene?

There have been reports that claim rape and others that claim no rape. I believe I read in an online news report that DNA of two Asian men found in the female victim matched DNA on a cigarette butt found at the scene.

A recent report (one day ago) in the Daily Mail (found online) quotes a Thai police officer as stating that rape was the motive for the attack.

I believe it does exist in many countries. Few if any have a pure democracy though. I live in the States and we have a democracy, but one that is controlled and manipulated by those with the resources to do so. Would a pure democracy, in this world, eventually produce communism? I think it might, when the 'have nots' outnumber the 'haves' and vote according to their desire. I am a capitalist to the bone, one of the 'haves' and able to travel the world, seeing interesting places like Thailand. I don't want the 'have nots' in my democratic country to eventually curtail my success by voting us into communism. The 'haves' in Thailand attempt to 'reset' democracy every so often with a coup, because they haven't mastered the manipulation of it like 'democratic' countries in the 'west'.

Would be interested to read your take on the subject.

Well, I'm a "have not" in socialist, communist Sweden and I'm happily married with a wonderful, supportive wife, 2 great kids, a big house, a summer cottage in the Stockholm archipelago, 2 cars and we travel around the world, at least two trips a year. So what was your question?

I didnt have a question in my previous post, just an interest in reading other peoples take on the subject. However, I have three questions below in this post.

Are you sure you are a 'have not'; your post doesnt read like you are? What I find online is that only one percent of the Swedish population lives in poverty, and by their definition you would not be a 'have not' in Sweden. There are sources that state a higher rate of poverty for Sweden, but you would not be classified as a 'have not' by them either.

From what I read, Sweden looks like a country that might currently do well with true democracy. Previously on this thread, it was asked if there were any democracies. Do you feel that Sweden has a true democracy, representing the will and desire of the people? Do you feel Sweden's form of government would work well in Thailand?

All I can surmise from this is that Thailand doesn't deserve a democracy. They've not shed a drop of blood in its pursuit and have no concept of its meaning.

Relatives of those who died in 1992 might disagree.

does democracy exist.......anywhere?

I believe it does exist in many countries. Few if any have a pure democracy though. I live in the States and we have a democracy, but one that is controlled and manipulated by those with the resources to do so. Would a pure democracy, in this world, eventually produce communism? I think it might, when the 'have nots' outnumber the 'haves' and vote according to their desire. I am a capitalist to the bone, one of the 'haves' and able to travel the world, seeing interesting places like Thailand. I don't want the 'have nots' in my democratic country to eventually curtail my success by voting us into communism. The 'haves' in Thailand attempt to 'reset' democracy every so often with a coup, because they haven't mastered the manipulation of it like 'democratic' countries in the 'west'.

Would be interested to read your take on the subject.

All I can surmise from this is that Thailand doesn't deserve a democracy. They've not shed a drop of blood in its pursuit and have no concept of its meaning.

Relatives of those who died in 1992 might disagree.

eh... your stats show he worked on 1 million murders in toronto ? my my tough town :-)

My Uncle was a forensic detective in Toronto for 25 years, he is here right now...I ran this story by him and he said in 99.99999% of cases he has seen if there is a murder/rape the two crimes are committed by the same person..

You have confused a stated percentage for a case count.

The confusion was mine, humor for serious. Would the number be 1 million or 10 million?

My Uncle was a forensic detective in Toronto for 25 years, he is here right now...I ran this story by him and he said in 99.99999% of cases he has seen if there is a murder/rape the two crimes are committed by the same person..

One can determine a minimum case count from a correctly rounded percentage. For example, 17% implies a minimum sample size of 6. The arithmetic can be more complicated, e.g. for 29%.

Agreed. An accurate interpretation of the post would be as you say, to use a "correctly rounded percentage", 100 percent, which allows for a "minimum case count" of 1.

eh... your stats show he worked on 1 million murders in toronto ? my my tough town :-)

They could now trace the person who had sex with her. But does that make him the killer?

If she was raped, then it likely does make him (or them) the killer(s).

My Uncle was a forensic detective in Toronto for 25 years, he is here right now...I ran this story by him and he said in 99.99999% of cases he has seen if there is a murder/rape the two crimes are committed by the same person..

You have confused a stated percentage for a case count.

They could now trace the person who had sex with her. But does that make him the killer?

If she was raped, then it likely does make him (or them) the killer(s).

An reward of 1200 euros is giving by the people of koh tao to anyone who knows something about the murder.

It has a thread of its own on TV:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761751-koh-tao-islanders-offer-reward-for-clues-on-brit-tourist-killers-update/

I found post #29 interesting (among others).

In this post #29 he is almost saying that no ones want the murders to be caught .which is stupid right? I mean why would they not care? Why would it be a conspi towards hannah and david, they were just two young people on vacations,not politics. This murder is also bad news for thai tourism ,the government lose much money because of it. I think they want to close that investigation asap.

I believe most, if not all Thais on Koh Tao would certainly like to see the killer(s) caught, but if the killer is in fact a wealthy (powerful and well-connected) person, there could be an element of risk involved for people offering a reward. The Thais will know that. You really should direct your question to the poster on that thread, as there is none better qualified to comment on the post.

An reward of 1200 euros is giving by the people of koh tao to anyone who knows something about the murder.

It has a thread of its own on TV:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761751-koh-tao-islanders-offer-reward-for-clues-on-brit-tourist-killers-update/

I found post #29 interesting (among others).

Memorial page said police informed so it has been reported to uk police and hopefully Thai police.

Hopefully.

At the end of the day he could have been trolling but with no leads it was a good lead to look at.

http://www.thaivisa....s-murder/page-4

post #96:

"Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with no work permits, they all say this is what happened."

SirBser,

Was there corroboration of what had been posted on Facebook, regarding the reported altercation, by other people (bartenders) you personally know?