dao16

Have been to many countries in my travels, and almost all of them thought they were the best country in the world and had some way of explaining it. The only exception I can think of was a country in Africa that was so f'd that the people knew it was a bad place to live. I would bet, though, that the individual tribes would still claim some sort of exceptional status as compared to all the rest of the people on earth.

I went running from this type of sentiment when I left home many years ago....only to find that pretty much all countries/peoples do it.

That said, Thais are probably on the more extreme end of the continuum, but not the craziest I have encountered.

What belongs to you belongs to them and what belongs to them stays with them.

Don't agree with that. While it can be very annoying, I see things switch out between family members all the time. Go to the village and don't see the washing machine (not mine anyway) and ask about it. Answer: "Oh, sister needed it so it is at her house, as all the kids are sleeping there now." That is just one example among many. For whatever reason, right now, they have taken my motorbike....and.....wait for it......given me another one! A brand new one! I have no idea why this is. Theirs is 2 weeks old and nice. Mine is 2 years old. Still fine, but a little more banged up. One day, without a doubt, I will wake up and they will be switched out again.

As long as I have the stuff I need when I need it, I don't mind. When I see someone exiting my place with an iron, I just yell out to them "hey, I need that back on Sunday night" or whenever, and they know to bring it back.

Certain things, like my computer, go untouched as it is well understood that the computer is MINE....an iron doesn't matter to me, as long as it comes back when I need it. Compromise, but hold your ground on things that matter. People here share pretty much everything.

EDIT---By the way, I had maybe 40 baht in the tank and the motorbike they left with me had a full tank.....just in case you were wondering. It had nothing to do with that.

I think that you WILL have a problem.

The overstay is not the problem.

When one obtains a new passport, the procedure is that the entry stamp should be transferred into the new passport along with another Thai Immigration stamp which makes reference to the old passport number. It is a simple process normally done when exiting the country.

The fact that you are on an overstay AND have a new passport without any entry stamp makes 2 simple normally separate procedures more complicated.

Someone should address the specific circumstance that you find yourself in based on their own experience prior to assuming that it will not be any problem. It may not be but then ........

That might depend on the nationality. I didn't have anything transferred when I got my last passport. The embassy gave me a letter, signed and stamped and all that, in Thai and English, that explained that the visa in my previous passport should be recognized through its validity and I was to present both passports upon departure or arrival. Obviously, I guarded that thing as if my life depended on it. No problems on departure (no overstay,either, though).

Well, it would sound kind of stupid to remove this. It is part of Thailand. Unfortunately, the "famous song-writer" sounds horrible. I hope this song writer was translated from Thai--it sounded horrible in English.

OP probably just ran into a crazy. I have been to Laos several for visa runs and to travel more extensively over the last 10 years or so. All the Laos expats I met were fine and most of them said they like to visit Thailand when they get a chance (holiday from their business or flying home). Don't pay attention to the crazies.

Which....on the tangent this thread went into--the reason why a lot of foreigners aren't making a huge effort to greet you when they see you on the street because they have met too many crazies over the years and you just might be one. I am sure everyone on here could tell stories about that.

No it is not Thai way.

It is only the way of some Thais.

And just try to just take their motorbike in the morning and bring it back in the evening. You'll find out that this sharing is only for your things not for their things.

Not in my experience. If I say "gee, I need a car to pick up some stuff at the store," family members will offer up their cars immediately. I even had a flat one day and my brother in law saw me on the road and swapped vehicles with me and fixed the tire on his own (I gave him money for it later....I was in a rush). Maybe that is just my in-laws.

I do find it irritating when people run off with the motorbike without saying anything, but if I want to, I can use their things, too....this includes telephones, helmets, fans, computers--anything, really.

Ridiculous...the guy should be going away for a decade or more at the least. He carried out this rape and threatened murder as well. A year is a joke.

Nonthaburial ...

Maybe the OP is trying to act like a normal father, as a good man would! And he is distressed at the diffrences in culture, which seem to us, to be insults ..and might really be...who knows? Some people maybe don't know better, and some people do, but are happy to insult the farang, because maybe they are jealous or whatever. Maybe the Thai people can't even consider, in their wildest dreams, that a step-parent, much less those "crazy farangs" could care for their kids as much as them, or in some cases, maybe more!!

Maybe they cannot realize that rules take an effort and show love for the child. Just handing over a candy or cookie, every time the child is distressed, isn't always best for the child? Saying yes to everything isn't best for the child.

Another thing, on topic I think with the OP, is Thai people always saying "but the child wanted this or that" as an excuse for whatever they did. Like my "other relatives, sort of" letting a 3 year old, decide what she will eat, all day and night, decide when she will go to sleep (3 am) then decide that she can't go to school, "because she is too tired to wake up" and etc, etc. They really seem to think that once a child pops out of the womb and can express what they like or don't like, that they are obliged to follow that!

I know all Thai parents aren't like that, but a good majority seem to be that way. I can't tell you how many times I have been told, that my 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 year old, picked what we would eat, when we will eat, what we should buy, where we should go, etc. I am not in the custom of asking toddlers what they would like to do this weekend, or while we visit Singapore, what we should visit, what hotel we should stay at, what event we should visit, etc.

Hey, 3 year old, "should we clean the floors today or eat candy all day" Oh, eat candy all day! Well you said it, so I guess we have to do it ...this is the kind of BS I have been exposed to, basically by everyone I have ever had contact with, that had something to do with my child. I wonder why they go to school, because if you ask them, they will say NO. Oh, my worker, in the old days, worked that out, by telling my kid each day, that they were not going to school, but going swimming, her favorite thing. And then she would freak out because she wasn't arriving at a swimming pool. But driver man thought that was a great idea, the lie, and I didn't find out for a long time that this was going on.

One really has to consider seriously if they want Thai people involved with their kids. I mean, yes, if one of the parents is Thai, well you have no choice. But I used to have a lot of "help" and it really was bad for my child, and I had to stop having so much help and do things myself.

You are just bringing up loads of things I have had to deal with as well. Luckily, my wife (who has lived abroad) understands when I put down my reasons for parenting the kids the way I want to. Not that I win on all fronts, but on important things, she usually (USUALLY) sees where I am coming from.

This "giving the kids what they want" thing was a massive thing we had to deal with several years ago. I will skip all anecdotes except for one, in which a 12-year-old was dictating transportation arrangements (ie., "you and auntie take the motorbike, and we will go in the car with the other motorbike in the back of the truck", and so on). People were taking her seriously, even though it didn't make any sense!!!

It took years of parenting to get rid of the tantrums and all that and now, I am pleased to say, we have a more or less civil and cool teenager who enjoys more freedom and agency than most of her friends, since she knows that there are boundaries. She is now willing to work within them and we talk to her like an adult, but with guidance. She is a teenager, so there are still rocky days/weeks, etc., but overall, those years of work have paid off.

There have been ugly moments, like walking her to school while she had a bloody nose because she hadn't slept all night and she was screaming at her mother (for a completely ridiculous reason I won't go into) or other nights she threw tantrums about trivial things (like not getting to do what she wanted RIGHT THEN because of torrential rains). Thank god that is years behind us, but I feel like we did the right thing, despite the pressures to just give in to everything.

In short, I feel your pain.

My Thai is far from OK. I've been lazy over the many years I've been here often using the excuse that I'm working overseas for half of that time and don't retain what Thai I have picked up.

I've reached somewhat of a 'Plateau' - any improvements I now make are slow.

Taxi's, restaurants, shopping malls etc I have no problem with my Thai easily covers that, its when I get into a conversation and the subject matter becomes more challenging that I struggle.

I spend most of my time in Thailand in Bangkok - However, I'm currently 'up country' and the Thai which I thought is fairly fluent is not so readily understood up here. I am faced with replies I can't understand... it seems the actual language up in Isaan is different... So while some up here are pattering on about what great Thai I speak I have great difficulty understanding them !

Add into the mix that when / if I don't understand the 'Isaan' dialect it's repeated, faster and louder - this doesn't help at all and its not just Thai's.. the Louder approach is a Western one too !...

Dialects, also a lack of complete necessity to speak Thai, also the nagging issue that its a one nation language and really of no use outside of Thailand make it easy not to learn...

I wish I had taken up formal courses to read and write Thai when I first arrived here moons ago...

They speak Laos up here in Isaan. Those in BKK speak central Thai.

mmm....I find that most people in Isaan can switch back and forth between the two relatively easily. I know some Laos, so it doesn't bother me, but now I just tell people that I am focusing on Thai and they say "oh...ok" and immediately switch over to Thai, even way out in the sticks. except for very old people, I haven't met many Isaan people who cannot speak, write and read Thai. For all of the deficiencies of the education system here, they do seem to do a decent job of teaching students to get to a functional level of literacy in Thai. That said, I do know just a very few who have trouble with it and feel awkward speaking Thai, but they can speak if they really need to.

Details, details. Of significance for you. Not for him. Communication !

The Grand Father also considered it wrong to take my daughter without informing me.

Nothing to do with communication

Hi Loong,

I have also had this problem is so many ways and forms ...it is simply baffling to me ...and I am not a step-parent, and am the mother, and the only parent my child lives with.

I was at first dumbfounded, when my child was only 4-5 years old, and people would call our house, ask to speak to her, and then "ask her" if she would like to see them and tell her "okay, I will come pick you up tomorrow at 10 am, or I will come pick you up in 10 minutes". These are sort of relatives, not MY relatives, not MY friends, it is complicated to explain. But who in their right mind makes plans with a kid that age, without asking a parent?

One time, a parent from school, invited my child to a birthday dinner, after school,...they called someone who works for me, who told them yes, sure, and then totally neglected to tell me. I was waiting at home, for the school bus. Sometimes they can be very late, due to traffic which has grown a lot lately. I was seriously worried she was in a crash, or the bus broke down, etc. Eventually, some people, in a very nice SUV pulled up and delivered my kid. I was shocked, didn't know who they were, why they drove her home, and then they said they had a birthday dinner at KFC with all her class, and apparently my worker person had told them they would have to drive her home after. So, they went the extra mile to drive her home, we never got their kid a gift, because nobody ever told me, and I was pretty rude and not very thankful, because I was so confused at the time, about what the hell was going on!!

My worker person, who happens to be a man, not sure if this is part of the reason he normally does things like this, but there is a pattern of he does do things like this, for YEARS now, no matter what I say. I think he considers it beneath his station in life to have to report to me, or inform me or ask me, anything at all. Or actually do anything the ways I like. A problem I have with many workers/helpers here. I am a female and often think that male workers especially apply the "men are higher than women, or we would like to pretend so, and certainly higher than farang women"? But they certainly don't spurn the money or benefits they get from me ...but they do try to pretend it is all worthless to them, and not really needed and sort of an insult at the same time. Does that make sense? I have had this attitude develop over time with people working for me.

Sometimes I think it is similar to the training or lack of training in the culture here, like when people you are with, walk in front of you, open a door, sqeeze in, and then slam it in your face. Or how they ask if you want food, as they are going to the noodle shop, and then return 4-8 hours later with your soup ...they ate while at the shop, then went on to do hours of errands or visiting friends, and you thought they would be back in 30 mintues, to eat together. Or even if they come right back, they ate first!

I mean, really, I just can't understand people here, for the most part. I have lived here for 9 years now. Recently the same helper person came over, and I showed him a wardrobe that I want to move out for extra space, and offered to give it to him. He has several rental properties and is always looking and liking my free furniture. What did he say? "Oh, so difficult, I will have to get 4 or 5 guys and a truck (his father has a truck) and it will be so difficult to take, blah, blah.

Me, a lady, I could take it apart with a screw driver, and put it in the road, any guy or even me, could lift the pieces into a truck bed. Not so difficult. Then I offered him a bike for his 3 year old kid ...that he asked me for before. And he said only "It is broken" and walked away. The mud flap, I guess you call it, has a piece missing out of it, that is all. So I said, "well you can go to Tesco and pay 2000 baht or more and have a perfect one, or have this one". No answer, walks away like I have insulted him. Then I showed him a 2000 baht "Winnie the Pooh" computer/educational phone,, and offered him that, and he said, it is broken? Does it work, can I prove it? The batteries were dead, but it works fine. Then we moved on to the 6 giant bags of clothes for his wife, and he said "she is too fat for those clothes and I am late for work and can't look at them now ...over and over again. Then he said he couldn't take them now, he was too busy. Would not even look at the clothes. I tried to get him to take at least one bag, because I was cleaning out things and wanted them gone. Then there were a few other things, the recylcing, "oh, he is too busy and that isn't enough money for him to deal with! But the male leather jacket, oh, he could take that now, and a motorbike helmet, and some shoes, and some crap I put in the garbage, he went though it and took it all! The motorbike helmet I have offered him several times, it is a good farang one, for over 6 years. He always says he wants it, but leaves it at my house. So this day, I put it in the steet, and he picked it up off the street like garbage and took it!

A few weeks have passed, and I ended up finding better people to give my clothes to, one that is the correct size, and will appreciate them, so I did it. Worker man comes over and sees my living room is no longer stacked up with a truck load of stuff I offered to give him, and he has a prissy fit, and can't understand why I gave them to anyone else. Then refuses to help me on my current projects, which are all late due to his apathy and refusal to so anything before the very last, drop dead date, which then gets pushed out, because "unforseen things have happened and he got busy".

I guess I have gone a bit off-topic here, sorry. I have had a huge, weird, amount of people not showing up lately, having bizarre excuses, and I just am a bit pissed off lately. One of my daughter's friends, demanded to be paid, "20-30 baht" while we were making cakes, and cupcakes, for the "work she did" which consisted of me showing her how to butter a cake pan, and sharing in the "mixing of the cake batter" ..so she stirred for 30 seconds. I also made her lunch, gave her a bag of nice clothes that fit her, we tried them all on, and she has no nice clothes ..and we were going to do some art projects later, which cost me money ...and she told my daughter, that she is never coming here again, after 3-4 years of playing here, and eating here, because I wouldn't pay her for her "work" ...she is 9 years old!! I wanted her to come because I got another 2 bags of nice clothes for her too!

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

This seems like a different problem completely, but I did want to comment on the one I have experienced (and had explained by my wife and seen again with those new eyes).

Giving things away to people in Thailand is very problematic, which seems weird since people ask foreigners for all kinds of stuff. It seems to all roll back to the face thing again, but, instead of getting into that, I will just give the major example that freaked me out.

I was on a train, drinking a beer (as I am known to do). not drunk. Just having a beer and reading a book. I had to order another bucket of ice for the last beer, but I didn't come close to finishing the ice. Some people had just sat down. They ordered a pepsi for the kids and then I heard them say they should get ice. I had already finished my beer and told them that they could have the ice I had ordered (it was still really full--plenty to deal with several bottles of pepsi). They declined and seemed embarrassed, although not overtly angry. I just said "ok...you should really just use that...I am going to sleep now." I heard them order ice as I was walking away.

Have told this story to my wife and many other Thais since then, and they all say the same thing: if they take your ice, it is like you are putting them on a lower level, status-wise, so they don't take it. They might even have used the ice when you (I) left, but didn't want to be seen getting "sloppy seconds" from anyone.

Thais are actually shocked when I tell them that it would be the opposite reaction, for the most part, where I am from. People would actually think "what a nice guy!" Not here.

I am coming to the end of my life. What possible use is learning to read/write/speak Thai to me? If I had a grave and a headstone I'd much rather it told visitors that I taught my family to speak English and being able to do arithmetic than that I was bilingual. My limited vocabulary is all that I need. My lack of a comprehensive means of communication has not prevented me from maintaining good relations with the locals or in dealings with shopkeepers. I see no mileage in trying to be more Thai than the Thais.

I don't think it has to be a "more thai than the thais" type of thing. It seems like you have figured out the level you needed and you have more or less achieved it. I still have a way to go, but I also won't be up in the higher levels of guys who actually work using high-level Thai writing, reading and speaking everyday, because it doesn't make sense for me. Each person is different and has different purposes when it comes to learning.

I'm absolutely convinced that personality plays a huge role. If you're are secure, self-assured, aggressive and don't care about making mistakes or looking foolish, you can learn a new language quickly.

But, if you're like me: weak, insecure, reticent and terrified of making errors and looking stupid you'll never learn a new language.

What I need is not more study, but a personality transplant.

Well, I agree that you have to be able to laugh at yourself when you inevitably make mistakes. Aggressive? Not so much, especially for Asian languages. People in most Asian countries I have visited really like people who speak with all the polite frills and that, so that could be your angle in (assuming this isn't a sarcastic post). But, yeah, if you take yourself very seriously and can't handle mistakes, it will be difficult.

Can anyone corrobarate what I have been told that the raw sauce used in som tam is a major cause of worms in the villages? My wife and several other Thais have told me this.

From what I understand about balaa and other fermented things is that, if they are properly fermented and contained, there will be no problem. This even goes for milk, which, rotten and fermented properly, can be consumed.

I would assume that the problem is people being half-as*ed about their fermentation process, which everyone would probably agree is likely.

Sounds more like the foreigners are afraid they have to provide their GF's with gold so they act like they don't like it. I really have no opinion about it its up to them. I wear a gold necklace too, normal European gold that I got when I was 16 for a graduation. Its strong, and it has sentimental value for me. I almost never take it off. If someone want to wear it let them be.

Rather see someone wearing gold then sporting a big gut and singlets. Talk about class.

I honestly have never cared for gold. I have always preferred silver, but that is probably mostly because I think it looks better on me. I hardly wear anything like that anymore, though. I also understand some of the addiction to gold, which is really throughout Asia. Especially here in Thailand and also in places like China, it is a way for them to store wealth that they might need to use later. I have no problems when my wife buys gold after running into some money. It means she is less likely to spend it until she really needs it, at which point, she sells the gold to finance whatever she needs.

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

And, you are not welcome, you are disliked, even to the point of being hated.

Thailand is the most xenophobic country on the planet.

Umm....it can be pretty xenophobic, but I could point you to some others that top it if you would like to try them out.

Got any friends around in Thailand? Maybe to borrow money, but more likely to help you get settled down somewhere else. They might know of local housing (often very cheap in Isaan--maybe rural north, too?). I paid 2000 for a place for a long while and I know there are lots of apartment blocks that have rooms for that price (not always pretty, but dry and a place to sleep). My old place had apartments downstairs that didn't have aircon, but they were nice and went for 2k a month. Get away from BKK and all those places, although I have seen 1,500 a month rooms there, too--really not pretty, but you won't die in them.

Got any Thai taxi friends? They might know...that is where I learned about the 1,500 baht room in BKK from. Hopefully you can speak Thai or you will likely need a friend who can to help you out.

Get your resume out and send send send....even if you don't "qualify" for a teaching job, they will often employ you anyway out in the sticks as long as you have a pulse, look presentable and show up. Now is right when they are looking since the new term is going to start.

Feel free to PM me if you want info on where I am at, but there are others like it. Hard to recommend it since I don't know where you are, but who knows.

Good luck.

Wow....what an OP....

I know what my neighbors think about me because I interact with them. Just had a few beers with two guys across the street last night. They like to sit out on their pickup and drink whiskey (they don't play music and speak relatively quietly). I was on my way back with some beers, so I sat down with them. One guy was into football, so we talked about that for a while, premier league, European leagues and, eventually, the Thai teams. Then he told me about his work, etc.--just a regular conversation.

The people in the stores like to chat when I buy something and one clerk enjoys speaking some English when she can. The neighbor to my left doesn't really look at me or anything, but she is kind of an ice queen in general (have never seen her smile to anyone) and her husband is from my wife's village, so my wife and him get along. Lady and her son on the right are very private and are either inside with everything shut or they get in the car and go somewhere. Guy in the next house down just smiles and I smile and nod. Never said a word to each other, but that seems like an acceptable relationship. I don't bother him in any way--I am just "the falang who nods and smiles" as far as he is concerned. An old, kind of crazy (but nice) woman figured out that I can speak a little of one of the minority languages around here and always invites me to speak it with her and her friends. Have even kicked a ball around with some of the neighborhood kids who think it is cool that this foreigner is playing on their side.

So, yeah....pretty much the opposite of the OP. Maybe try talking to them and treating them like humans first?

I guess I will re-post, as I wasn't attacking anyone. I have just found that many of the men I meet here in Thailand are very insecure about the women in their lives so I have stopped talking to anyone's girlfriend of wife beyond the most basic greetings ("hello" or a wai for Thai women and then done). I guess we can't know if this is what really happened, but judging by some of the jealousy I have seen here from different guys from all over the world, I wouldn't doubt that a guy could go off the rails because someone had a conversation with his wife.

If you think the Thai's are bad, don't go near those Bahraini's....................... width=20 alt=rolleyes.gif>

Oh, I have seen it with guys from "falang" countries and everything in between. I don't know any people from Bahrain, so couldn't comment. I am just out of talking to attached women at all. It just isn't worth the stress....still doesn't warrant a beating.

Yep, it can be all about possession, especially Asian countries (although it does happen in the west as well).

Anything from making the women hide themselves from head to toe in case anyone dares to look at their beauty (or otherwise), to rattles & teddies coming out of the pram if you dare to talk to them.

In China, I have experienced weird situations with couples several times. The woman stands behind her man, her head sort of peeking out from behind his shoulder. I never say anything to her and talk with the man. When it is time to go, I say goodbye to him and, out of courtesy, I look at her and say goodbye. the guy looks at me as if I have just propositioned his gf/wife.

But, recently, I have observed Westerners going berserk for similarly benign interactions (I wasn't involved in those cases). Just giving them ALL a wide berth from now on.

I guess I will re-post, as I wasn't attacking anyone. I have just found that many of the men I meet here in Thailand are very insecure about the women in their lives so I have stopped talking to anyone's girlfriend of wife beyond the most basic greetings ("hello" or a wai for Thai women and then done). I guess we can't know if this is what really happened, but judging by some of the jealousy I have seen here from different guys from all over the world, I wouldn't doubt that a guy could go off the rails because someone had a conversation with his wife.

If you think the Thai's are bad, don't go near those Bahraini's.......................

Oh, I have seen it with guys from "falang" countries and everything in between. I don't know any people from Bahrain, so couldn't comment. I am just out of talking to attached women at all. It just isn't worth the stress....still doesn't warrant a beating.

I guess I will re-post, as I wasn't attacking anyone. I have just found that many of the men I meet here in Thailand are very insecure about the women in their lives so I have stopped talking to anyone's girlfriend of wife beyond the most basic greetings ("hello" or a wai for Thai women and then done). I guess we can't know if this is what really happened, but judging by some of the jealousy I have seen here from different guys from all over the world, I wouldn't doubt that a guy could go off the rails because someone had a conversation with his wife.

Thailand really is not that different to any other country in habits of folk

No really, it is different.

I don't know of any parents in the UK who would send their daughter to Blackpool to work as a prostitute and send money home.

(If you don't like my choice of UK beach holiday destination, please feel free to mentally replace it with one of your own)

No, the girls go to Blackpool on their own and start turning tricks. Either don't talk to mom and dad or call and say "yeah, it's great....I bartend/wait tables/work in retail/whatever" and done. The whores in the UK or any country don't just materialize out of thin air when they are 18 or whatever. They are people from real places with real (functional or dysfunctional) families.

I think in a lot of cases, whether it is a Thai or a foreigner, people don't really understand the amount of work involved. They think they will set up a business and the money will just flow in with little to no work on their part.

I have met a few foreigners who have really successful businesses, but they also work quite a bit--as in from early in the AM until late night, 6 or sometimes 7 days a week. Now, it seems like they have a lot of down time, like waiting for deliveries, or clients, etc., but they are sort of on-call all day, every day.