jbauer

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

And, What is the Unemployment Rate among those Teachers who stand-up for their rights ??

Thai Teacher 15,000 THB, Farang Teacher 40,000 THB, so is that about right ??

There is a labor court which actually does work with at least some degree of impartiality (documented many times). Maybe if they did stand up more, and in a group, it wouldn't be so easy for their managers to exploit them. Foreign teachers don't often get screwed around with like this, unless they are very green, and they are thought of as eminently more disposable.

Thai teacher salary : Foreign teacher salary = Apples : Oranges

At our (private) school, Thai teachers haven't had a summer holiday for years, not even a day. Now, they are being told they must work weekends as well until the start of the new semester (through summer).

But the farang teachers don't? Why not? Is it because they have complained in the past and the management knows they can't strongarm them?

Just a guess, but if that is correct, it goes to show that, if you don't complain about something and just accept it, you deserve to have to put up with it. Thai teachers like this don't get much sympathy from me on this matter, as they won't do anything to change it. Sounds like your school's teachers have to do work for work's sake, probably to fulfill some management power trip, and are completely whipped; harsh, but if you don't stick up for yourself, what do you expect?

It's not just about them, either; the stress they let themselves be put under probably affects their performance and reduces their effectiveness in the classroom, and the students often don't want to do these after school/weekend/summer course extra-curricular activities and complain of being tired/bored. (It must be said, though, that many of the Thai teachers I know do actually get paid for extra work; off the official books, of course).

Well two things

1 Foreign teachers get more money

2 You have no idea of Thai culture just another Farong with why don't they do it like they do in my country menttality.

1. More money, in the short term, but depends on the type of school, the individual school, the seniority of the teachers, the relationships the teachers may or may not have to the management etc. Long term, maybe not- knew a perfectly ordinary old teacher in a relatively rural school on 82,000 bath/mth base salary (saw the contract with this in). How you play the game, maybe. Not to mention benefits and "perks". Not everyone is on less than 15,000 baht a month, you know.

2. I do know of the reluctance to unionize and the cultural/political reasons why, and I disagree with them, at least in some cases such as this, where obviously it would do some good- sometimes change isn't a bad thing. They do it in many other countries, not just my own. Not even saying unionize, just stick up for yourself en masse on occasion, if you are in a ridiculous situation such as one described in the post I commented on. Give it a go, at least? Up to them.

Do you know more than Thai culture than me? I'm not saying you don't, because I don't know who you are, but how are you so sure of my knowledge on it? Even so, I can know about it and, at the same time, not agree with it...

45slap, I appreciate that you gave further explanation of your comment, even though I personally disagree with your stance. Sorry for the earlier post, where I assumed you were just some "I have the right to do whatever" knucklehead.

In my opinion, proper respect for a good law should remain the same anywhere, and should not be affected by the environment; I would not murder someone in Thailand, because it is wrong, not because I feel I must obey Thailand's laws out of politeness or because I don't have citizenship, etc. The fact I am in Thailand does not affect my refusal to rob a bank any more than being in my own country would.

However, obeying does not mean agreeing, and it does not mean I feel I shouldn't have a voice. I may not be Thai, but I don't see why I can't affect change; I would actually listen to a foreigner in my own country if he criticized some aspect of it,and would then choose to agree or disagree with him. I would not dissuade him from saying it. By voicing an opinion, I might, in a small way, affect the mind of a Thai person (however unbelievable that might seem). I realize many people would vehemently disagree with this, and say that I have no right to influence a different country, or post that bwana picture again. I am not someone who means to oppress. However, I do feel my opinion should be allowed; it's just that no one has to listen to it if they don't want to.

If Thailand allowed (legal) slavery, I would vocally disagree with it. I know that I might well then be pressured to leave, but there are some moral absolutes that I won't abandon for the sake of the independence of another culture. If this makes me a fool, so be it- maybe I could change things, even if only in a minute way I don't believe I would be being hypocritical about disagreeing with a law, though, as there is no law saying I am not allowed to communicate my disagreement (apart from on certain things, although this situation does indeed make me feel somewhat of a hypocrite, regardless of whether I hypothetically agreed or disagreed with them).

You have made me think quite deeply about my stance; thank you.

At our (private) school, Thai teachers haven't had a summer holiday for years, not even a day. Now, they are being told they must work weekends as well until the start of the new semester (through summer).

But the farang teachers don't? Why not? Is it because they have complained in the past and the management knows they can't strongarm them?

Just a guess, but if that is correct, it goes to show that, if you don't complain about something and just accept it, you deserve to have to put up with it. Thai teachers like this don't get much sympathy from me on this matter, as they won't do anything to change it. Sounds like your school's teachers have to do work for work's sake, probably to fulfill some management power trip, and are completely whipped; harsh, but if you don't stick up for yourself, what do you expect?

It's not just about them, either; the stress they let themselves be put under probably affects their performance and reduces their effectiveness in the classroom, and the students often don't want to do these after school/weekend/summer course extra-curricular activities and complain of being tired/bored. (It must be said, though, that many of the Thai teachers I know do actually get paid for extra work; off the official books, of course).

Bakeman, regardless of what Buddhism is about, those two circus clowns are guests in another country. It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with being respectful and behaving in a socially acceptable manner. Do whatever you want in your own country. My girlfriend tells me to run a red light; I tell her no. It's not my country. I abide by the laws. (Most of the time). However, in my country I will run a light if I want. Up to me.

I assume your home country has laws about running red lights, so it is not "up to you" at all, and quite correctly; likewise, were you to hit my kid by running a red light, it would, correctly, not be "up to me" to decide to murder you on sight in revenge, even though I would feel completely justified in doing so.

Hell, I work with a d...head who ignores everyone when he's not in class. Just plays on his phone. Has zero social skills. Reminds me of autism. When I speak to the guy and he ignores me, I feel like stuffing the phone down his gullet.

Maybe he actually is autistic, doesn't have the same social advantages as you, and doesn't really deserve abuse. Just saying.

Dear jbauer, I accept that I should watch more media from different countries in order to "get the accents more". I accept your sincere comments. I apologize that I cannot afford to pay for a professional translation. If I was born in the UK and live there my whole life, I would never bother people with this request. I seek help because I truly need it. Regards, Lara

FWIW, I am from the US, and I understand the speaker as well.

He's rambling on and on about the prospects of (developing) tourism in ASEAN, which I would personally pronounce as AY-SEE-AN... not AH-SEE-AN.

One of the reasons why it is difficult to understand his ramblings is that he is referring to presentation material, that we as mere listeners, are not privy to seeing.

I pronounce it AH-SEE-AN because all the Thai/SE-Asian teachers I have heard pronounce it like this (there is also an awful song which pronounces it like this as well). Could be everyone is wrong and it is actually pronounced "AY-SEEN"...

It is also correct that the presentation as it was given was probably easier to grasp, through use of slides, realia, etc. Again, while not wanting to be a d--k about it, that is why students have to pay attention, not just try to catch up later- something I wish I had done more in my degree!

I was a bit harsh, but concerning international education, it does annoy me when students are not able to understand a lecturer either through lack of preparation or lack of ability to ask for clarification. Maybe I was having a bad day today!

Honestly, the speaker is not bad at all, and I hope his students do not unfairly criticize him in evaluations, at least if they haven't already asked him to slow down etc!

Sincerely, I hope someone will help you.

the issue is poor audio and rapid speech.

And an amazingly boring speech that literally bounces about all over the place :-D

I'm extremely glad I wasn't present!

True about the boredom- though I think it is a case of not being able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear more than anything else. I don't think even someone like Stephen Fry or Peter Ustinov could make ASEAN come alive...

I only listened to the first bit of it and had absolutely no real problems in any way, apart from some specific place names which I am unfamilar with (but the listeners should be). He does speak a bit fast, but not really.

Don't mean to be a git, but people criticizing the speaker are mostly just unfamiliar with / unwilling to familiarize themselves with other accents (a common problem, even in England). Sorry if that's an unpopular opinion, but I've never had a problem with accents, unless there are significant grammar problems present, is way too fast, or is filled with slang. Maybe I just pay more attention, though I admit I come from the UK, like the speaker, so maybe I am bigging myself up unjustly in this case. In my opinion, people should watch more media from other countries to "get" the accents more, but they rarely do- something to do with comfort zones, I guess.

What rates do you want to propose in exchange for people's services? I'm being serious, because work should be paid for.

If you were at this lecture, you should have been proactive about actually asking the presenter what he meant, to slow down, etc (I didn't hear anyone speaking except him- what were the listeners doing if they had a problem?). Learning from a person is a two-way street, sorry. It's not kindergarten- students must take more control.

(If this wasn't a lecture in your course, but is a source material being used by it, why don't you ask your actual teacher / lecturer for assistance- or don't they understand it either?)

I used to do t'ai chi and chi kung (Taoist in origin), several styles of kung <deleted> (Buddhist) and Muay Thai. Yoga was also on offer, though I didn't try it.

All of these classes were held in church halls in England, right next to the church, close to the cemetery- right in the grounds. No one had a big tizzy over it being offensive to Christianity.

Sorry if that's being rude, but some people need to lighten up, especially as compared to what I have seen going on in some Thailand temple grounds- or is that alright because those people are Thai and are making some cash out of it?

Ya like Father Sullivan's bingo night in the city that doesn't allow gambling.

I never said which people needed to lighten up. Personally, I think it would be good for most people around the world to do so, not only huffy people in Thailand. However, I do think that gambling is a lot more objectionable than some admittedly impressive looking yoga...

I used to do t'ai chi and chi kung (Taoist in origin), several styles of kung &lt;deleted&gt; (Buddhist) and Muay Thai. Yoga was also on offer, though I didn't try it.

All of these classes were held in church halls in England, right next to the church, close to the cemetery- right in the grounds. No one had a big tizzy over it being offensive to Christianity.

Sorry if that's being rude, but some people need to lighten up, especially as compared to what I have seen going on in some Thailand temple grounds- or is that alright because those people are Thai and are making some cash out of it?

It is not easy for Thailand to fund these programs. I see discussion about the tax revenue, etc. I think a substantial percentage of the economy is cash based and therefore difficult if not impossible to assess a tax base.

I am in the camp of those who think if it bothers you so much, then stay home., wherever that may be. I stopped going to professional sports venues in the US when ticket prices exceeded about fifteen bucks. I also do not dine on Kobe beef when there is hamburger available.

It might be easier to fund these programs if 1. there was a serious effort made by the authorities to fund them, seeing as these parks, museums etc.are meant to be a representation of national pride and blah blah, as opposed to them using the usual "that'll do" method, and 2. if the available money wasn't siphoned off for, ahem, "other" reasons.

Thais are very flexible with this pricing structure. If you walk up and speak thai to them and tell them you live in Los, then ask them nicely if they'll let you in for the Thai price they will almost always say yes. The pricing structure doesn't apply if you're from Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos etc, because they know most of those people are poor. Oh and it isn't greed, he thai price reflects the disparity of wages between thai and farang. Most Thais are paid a daily rate that is equivalent to your hourly rate, and as Thailand is a developing country it can either split the running and maintenance costs up and charge a flat rate, which will mean no thai will afford to visit that museum, park, attraction. Or it can keep this two tier system. Oh, technically you can only be racist towards people who have suffered real oppression based on color or beliefs. As the Thais have not had either white or black slaves and haven't gassed six million Jews you can't technically accuse them of racism of any sort.

Thailand had slaves, and a lot later than Britain or America- they were Asian rather than black or white, granted. I'm sure neighbouring countries have there own histories of Thai war crimes as well, although obviously not on the scale of the Holocaust.

I remember a few years ago talking to a PHD from the University of Michigan who took the four tests for a teacher's license. He only passed one and he said the only reason he passed was because it was the last one and he finally figured out to pick the choice that was the longest most complicated and usually made no sense.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Evidently your PhD buddy was a slow learner if it took him 3 attempts to figure out what the examiners wanted.

There are four different tests in one round, so I assume he took four different tests one time. Even if he did them multiple times, they do change the contents of the tests to a lesser or greater degree each round (and yes, they are difficult to pass- people passing the tests, from at least the last few rounds, had high scores of 70-80% at most).

Same here- though I am usually very cynical about this sort of thing, certain posters I usually agree with are saying good things. Could I have the details?

"If this death threat is true, it's only what he deserves"

- 50% of this forum.

Nisa, I did give that a like, for what it's worth. I don't think I have been derogatory to any race in my posts, and in terms of race relations, I was responding to another poster. It's just that we have different viewpoints within this case of individuals.

The woman in the video is not his wife (unless that information has changed).

The video again shows AFTER HE WAS HIT IN THE HEAD- I don't know his state of mind in the video, and neither do you.

Yes, this does not show foreigners in a good light, although it is possible that even if it were found he was blameless, many people would not change their opinion, as I suspect you wouldn't.

I don't honestly know what would rectify this situation. Would you like him thrown in jail? Would that really improve Thai opinions of foreigners? I'm honestly asking.

You seem not to have a lot of faith in Thai people, if you think all of them think the same way, and do not have differing viewpoints. Could it be they would make their own minds up on this one case? Maybe they see that this was only one foreigner, who does not represent everyone, even if he is to blame?

You also seem very hostile to someone who disagrees with you and wasn't trying to goad you (at least before you started off at me). Issues?

Erm... yes, you have many more posts, but that doesn't not make you a troll... genuinely, I might not be thinking of the same definition of troll that you are. If you give me the correct definition, I will litsten. Maybe I am a troll? Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, of course...

When did I say I was Jack Bauer? I happen to like the show, that's all- I am relatively sure I'm not a fictional TV character in an entertaining, if flawed, series. When have you ever given the impression of being like him?

Actually, I feel he was usually a reasonable character who wanted the truth to come out before conclusions were jumped to, like in series 2 when he gets the Cyprus tape. Are you implying I am not as tough as him? Well, no, I'm fairly normal, as I expect you are. What are you suggesting? It's quite an unusual line of argument..

BTW, last I heard, you may want to check on Kiefer Sutherland's political or social viewpoints, as they might not be what you think they are (disregarding the fact he is only an actor, albeit a talented one). Even so, much as I admire his acting, what has he said in real life that makes me sound like his opposite?

Edit- I wasn't actually trying to sound like a fictional character, anywhere in my posts. This really is the dumbest thing someone has ever tried to insult me over...

I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME!!! WHERE IS THE BOMB?!?

I stand corrected.

Gweiloman- no, I'm not associated with Mr. Beehan at all, to my knowledge. My nick comes from the popular TV series 24, because I enjoy watching it with my wife, and because I am unimaginative.

I am also not a troll, again to my knowledge. Maybe I have been displaying inadvertant troll-like behavior.

Like you, maybe?

Sorry, I can't see much racism displayed in any of the posts, apart from those which are anti-foreigner. Just because you happen to disagree with some practices or points of view of a country does not make you a racist. Please point out any posts which are neutral or for the guy who was beaten which display racism (there may be the odd one or two, please find a non-stupid post).

I don't think myself superior to Thais, just morons.

Edit- actually this includes Thais who happen to be morons, but this does not make me racist, as there are morons all over the world.

TallGuy, when did I ever say the man was Jesus? When did I say the guard was the Thai Oswald Mosely? And more reasonably, when did I say the man was wholly correct and the guard wholly incorrect (notwithstanding that the action he took- hitting anyone in the face- is wholly incorrect). I may be wrong, but I don't think I have been anything less than objective through this whole thing. If you find anything to the contrary, or if you are sad enough to dredge through my posts to pinpoint such an example, I will say I am sorry.

However, I will say that the Thai person's letter to the school, above, doesn't exactly refute any of the charges I keep hearing that Thais stick together in the face of who is right or wrong. A generalisation, I know, and I do know some Thais who would not do this, but from what I keep hearing...

Look, I am doing the exact same thing as that writer (and many people here)- I am making assumptions without evidence and letting my lower reasoning do all the work!

Edit- maybe I'm not being objective enough, in thinking the letter was written by a Thai or is legit- sorry, it's late. I'll try to do better..

I almost clicked on "like" for Nisa's last post... almost...

However, Unadulterated- if it was trying to provoke a response, why would a (written in English, but still Thai) newspaper give it such a headline? If they are trying to get a positive response for themselves, they would have reversed it into "Thai guards assaulted by Farang" or something...

Who is smarter?

What does it matter?

But the foreigner doesn't seem to have done anything which could have killed anyone...