dtarasin

When I woke up this morning and heard that the army was going in, I thought it would result in 100s dead. I think it's less than 10. A phenomenally good and disciplined job on the part of the military that should bury once and for all this shit about repressive regimes slaughtering innocents, etc, etc. There's not government in the world that could have done it with less damage. Really, it's time for the redshirts (if they actually exist outside the mob) to quit burning the country and sit down like civilized people and take the hand this government has offered them. If they dont' want to do that - shoot the lot of them.

I know you read those numbers but those numbers given my the Thai government are not true.

There were 7 dead in a temple that a doctor reported and the Thai government did not report those and likely has missed the 100s you are talking about.

Really? You have proof of these hundreds that are dead as well as the seven in a temple, right? Which temple was it?

i think it was 9 dead at the temple..

reported inthe nation for one

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Nine-...e-30129827.html

There's no indication of how they died or who killed them. I find it hard to believe that the army was responsible. That would mean they would've had to enter the temple to kill them. Someone would've seen. If indeed it was the army that killed them, why didn't the two survivors say anything?

When I woke up this morning and heard that the army was going in, I thought it would result in 100s dead. I think it's less than 10. A phenomenally good and disciplined job on the part of the military that should bury once and for all this shit about repressive regimes slaughtering innocents, etc, etc. There's not government in the world that could have done it with less damage. Really, it's time for the redshirts (if they actually exist outside the mob) to quit burning the country and sit down like civilized people and take the hand this government has offered them. If they dont' want to do that - shoot the lot of them.

I know you read those numbers but those numbers given my the Thai government are not true.

There were 7 dead in a temple that a doctor reported and the Thai government did not report those and likely has missed the 100s you are talking about.

Really? You have proof of these hundreds that are dead as well as the seven in a temple, right? Which temple was it?

Yeah yeah, the same could be said from the yellow shirt, and their protests lasted a lot longer. The death toll under the reds is horrendous, it surpsirses me they didn't behave more violently.

Double standards is the key word here.

Or did you forget the charge of the army over a month ago, it seems you did, and still the PM is allowed to carry on, amazing, no other word for it.

Your mental gymnastics and false equivalency. It amuses me.

But in fact, Thailand now is harvesting the results of a history in wich a rich elite has been ruling a nation for a long period by greed.

People keep bringing this up as if it's unique to Thailand. Did you know that 10% of the US population control 80% of the country's wealth? How come we don't see the poor rural farmers burning down central DC or New York?

Whatever legitimate complaints the red shirts had about distribution of wealth and power has been completely thrown out the window ever since they rejected Abhisit's roadmap. Rationalize this however you want, but what they're doing is terrorism, pure and simple. No legitimate protest would burn down the house just to kill a few rats.

The good people of Thailand do not deserve the viciousness of Thaksin's red horde. May they all rot.

I know CenterWorld well, and I can understand why it was burned.

The people of Thailand who suffer and then take action are not terrorists.

The violence, the injuries, and the deaths are terrible for the Thai people. But the red shirts are not terrorists. They are citizens who are being marginalized.

The government had many opportunities to diffuse the situation and it took the wrong action every time. The government is killing the Thai people. Now the red shirts are to blame??? I don't think so.

The Capitalists who built CenterWorld will not be suffering because CenterWorld has burned. They will build a new monument to consumerism and continue to benefit from their exploitation ...

Tom

OK. Posts like this really f_ucking piss me off.

"The people of Thailand who suffer and then take action are not terrorists."

Oh really? So I guess the people whose lives and jobs have been completely ruined by this two month long "protest" and subsequent burning of their city should take the law into their own hands and go to the villages of these red-shirts and burn that s_hit down, too?

"The government had many opportunities to diffuse the situation and it took the wrong action every time. The government is killing the Thai people. Now the red shirts are to blame??? I don't think so."

OH F-UCK YOU. The government has repeatedly tried to negotiate and offer solutions to this crisis including a roadmap for peace that called for new elections in November. But NOOOO... red shirt mongrels decided to go for the whole hog. Now please, pray tell, has the reds EVER offered anything constructive to the discussion table other than "WAAHHHHh WE'RE OPPRESSED LIFE'S NOT FAIR FOR US".

Wake up call, you morons. Life's not fair for EVERYONE. In the US, 10% of the population own 80% of the country's wealth. You don't see farmers from Tennessee and Alabama storming DC with their militias and burning it to the ground. Instead they voice their complaints through the electoral process, something vital to every democracy. Unfortunately the red shirts are too f_ucking busy drinking their f_ucking Sangsoms and gambling their finances away to actually do some research into who they should elect to best represent their interests, and instead believe everything their village idiot says as long as he gives them 500 baht to spend on more f_ucking sangsom and somtam.

Notice I am not blaming the red shirt leaders. You know why? Because when you see an opportunity to lead sheep to the wolves while making a few bucks in the process, you do it. It's the evils of capitalism. Ironically, it's also the type of "elite" injustice you all are so against.

Also, what I just said goes double for you yellow shirt morons! Screw you for setting a bad precedent.

This is what i call a MAJOR Bitchy statement from a person

I have to watch my city burn from halfway around the world and it seems there's nothing anyone can do about it. Bitchy is an understatement.

A recent survey by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) showed that the richest 20 per cent of the Thai population own 56 per cent of the country's wealth, while the bottom 60 per cent has less than 25 per cent.

Well, in the US the richest 10% owns 80% of the nation's wealth. http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/our-n...invest-in-jobs/

I don't see the rural poor of America (along with their militias) going to Washington DC and holding it hostage for 2 months demanding the fall of the US government.

The fact of the matter is that what these red shirts are complaining about isn't unique to Thailand. Every civilized nation has to deal with inequalities in the distribution of wealth. Yes, these issues are legitimate complaints that should be addressed by any responsible government, but intelligent people realize that there will never be a perfect solution for this. And intelligent people don't hold capital cities hostage to complain that life is unfair.

Fair enough. And I'd like to say that animatic is one of the more reasonable and balanced voices I've seen so far around here.

I do agree that their radical actions were a reaction as opposed to being spontaneous, BUT, seeing as the PAD are always touting themselves as the "educated" and "peaceful" voices of this argument, they should lead by example. It is the responsibility of the educated to move the political discourse with empathy and prudence.

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. And one DOESN'T blame others as the cause for one's actions. If the PAD's actions can be so easily manipulated by outside forces, how can they be strong enough to lead?

This has been posted numerous times, but one more time. The PAD are not a political party running for office, they simply with to have a government that is without Rampant Corruption, as the Thaskin Clan keep trying to set up.

*sigh*... "leading" doesn't necessarily mean running more office! why are you people so single-minded? do you think people would be protesting at the airport if the PAD wasn't "leading" them?

If you really really want to argue semantics, what I meant was "strong enough to make wise decisions with the knowledge that others will follow".

One thing I do not understand is why did the PAD not just only wait for the court decision today to dissolve the PPP instead of this terrorist action at the airport. Can anyone explain that.

Since the government was about to rush through amendments to the constitution making some very crucial changes that could make the dissolve-case void and null and give Thaksin immunity.

And since they wasn't able to hold these assemblies lately, it seems PAD won a small victory at least.

We might not like how they did it but we can at least appreciate that their actions did at least stop something very bad, so far.

I don't "appreciate" anything the PAD has done. Let me get this straight you think its OKAY to break the law in order to stop Thaksin from getting away with breaking the law?

At the end of the day both sides have now broken laws. So no I don't "appreciate" anything the PAD has done in recent months. What makes PAD's law breaking ok and Thanksins law breaking not ok? where do you draw the line?

Exactly! I've been trying to say this for so long. Good to know someone else sees this too.

One thing I do not understand is why did the PAD not just only wait for the court decision today to dissolve the PPP instead of this terrorist action at the airport. Can anyone explain that.

Since the government was about to rush through amendments to the constitution making some very crucial changes that could make the dissolve-case void and null and give Thaksin immunity.

And since they wasn't able to hold these assemblies lately, it seems PAD won a small victory at least.

We might not like how they did it but we can at least appreciate that their actions did at least stop something very bad, so far.

Sorry for sounding ignorant, but isn't there a law in Thailand that separates the executive office from the legislative? If they're one and the same, therein could lie the problem.

i have a thai family in korat where i stay for 6 months of the year and in the village where i live about 24 people including one in my family have just left to meet other people in korat and are going to the airport ,all in yellow shirts not sure who asked them to come , i dont understand anymore .

Do you know if they are being paid. Please do not speculate if you are not 100% sure. Thanks in advance.

Don't sweat it. 99% of what you read on here is pure speculation.

Brother, if THAT ain't the ever-lovin' truth! Amazing that all the world's political, economic, tourism, psychology, and legal experts all just happen to be members of and so actively posting on this board! My oh my. Does the Thai government, their courts, their transportation authorities and their crisis response bodies KNOW about this place?! Surely not, or every Thai alive today would surely be basking in the sunshine of the one truth, real justice and enlightenment.

================================================

Whatever happened to discourse that went, "In my opinion....", or "It seems to me that.......", or "Does anyone agree with me that....", instead of: "It's OBVIOUS to even an ignorant git that so-n-so is such-n-such, and if you don't realize that you deserve to have your brains sucked out through your elbows and fed to more intelligent people like me!....

AMEN times 10,000,0000!!!! Finally a voice of reason!!! Hawker, wanna form a party of our own? We can invite the reds and the yellows, turn up some music, and drink some beer.

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

They DID try that many times,

but TRT and PPP controled mobs broke up the rally's QUITE violently...

Go read up on it.

Hense they were forced to use other measures.

Not all of which I can agree with.

.

Did I say to do it by rallying? There's plenty of ways of educating the rural population that doesn't involve confrontation. And "educating" shouldn't just mean telling them why they should be against the PPP, but also why they should be FOR the Democrats, ie. let them know how you're going to make their lives better.

PPP didn't even exist then...

Having a stage and talking publicly was enough to get a beating back then,

if you disagreed with Thaksin's programs. Dems, PAD or ANY disenting voices.

Simple as that. Go read up on it.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of education by TV, print, radio, and the internet.

Besides, just because their message wasn't getting through by peaceful means doesn't give them any right to take over an airport and demonize those who don't agree with them. I thought the PAD were supposed to be the "educated" ones. Why don't they lead by example?

I think that their radical actions have been instigated by increasingly violent attacks from exterior forces.

This trajectory didn't match their earlier rise and then voluntary backing off of the earlier version.

When Thaksin's vow to exit the political field proved a lie, they returned. And the violence against them was much greater.

This is an observation, and not a denfense of actions.

Nothing like attacks causing death and dismemberment to raise the anti in a groups methods.

Fair enough. And I'd like to say that animatic is one of the more reasonable and balanced voices I've seen so far around here.

I do agree that their radical actions were a reaction as opposed to being spontaneous, BUT, seeing as the PAD are always touting themselves as the "educated" and "peaceful" voices of this argument, they should lead by example. It is the responsibility of the educated to move the political discourse with empathy and prudence.

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. And one DOESN'T blame others as the cause for one's actions. If the PAD's actions can be so easily manipulated by outside forces, how can they be strong enough to lead?

Is there any more news about the injured from the latest bomb attack at Don Muang? Last post said a nurse was not supposed to talk to the press but some people had been seriously injured?

One killed, several others injured. fuc_king Redshirts!!! If you want the PAD to listen, stop trying to kill them!!!

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

They DID try that many times,

but TRT and PPP controled mobs broke up the rally's QUITE violently...

Go read up on it.

Hense they were forced to use other measures.

Not all of which I can agree with.

.

Did I say to do it by rallying? There's plenty of ways of educating the rural population that doesn't involve confrontation. And "educating" shouldn't just mean telling them why they should be against the PPP, but also why they should be FOR the Democrats, ie. let them know how you're going to make their lives better.

PPP didn't even exist then...

Having a stage and talking publicly was enough to get a beating back then,

if you disagreed with Thaksin's programs. Dems, PAD or ANY disenting voices.

Simple as that. Go read up on it.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of education by TV, print, radio, and the internet.

Besides, just because their message wasn't getting through by peaceful means doesn't give them any right to take over an airport and demonize those who don't agree with them. I thought the PAD were supposed to be the "educated" ones. Why don't they lead by example?

Why do PAD supporters keep bringing up this "vote-buying" excuse?

Excuse? Election Fraud is why the courts are involved in the Thaksin/TRT/PPP stuff AGAIN. Why call them elections if vote buying is OK? Please, if vote buying isn't going to be an issue for you then don't bother mentioning elections or democracy again. Then the question becomes Thaksin and Corruption alone (and since he's been convicted of abuse of power .....and has cases pending .... and is on the run to escape serving his sentence ...)

Did I say anywhere in my post that vote-buying is ok? Do you ever ask yourself that there's a possibility that the politicians are just giving money to voters who would've voted for them anyway?

PAD uses vote-buying like it's the only reason the PPP are in power.

Politicians make promises to do things that's important to the voters they want to win. Either they say they'll lower your taxes, help you build schools, give you free healthcare, or give you money. That's a fact of life.

I'm not saying vote-buying is ok, or that vote-buying doesn't exist. All I'm saying is that the PAD/Democrats should stop complaining about WHY they keep losing, and find out HOW they can win.

And in case you haven't figured it out already, I'm anti-PPP, too. I'm just not pro-PAD.

But then again, I guess your poor, uneducated mind cannot grasp the reality that there more than two sides to every story.

(yeah, I called you uneducated. Does that fire you up? That's what happens when you call people uneducated).

Apparently there are a lot of people who think that vote buying and selling by poor, often uneducated people, is a normal thing.

It surprises me that election-fraud is a kind of accepted.

Why do PAD supporters keep bringing up this "vote-buying" excuse? Let me ask you something... if these people were just voting in the PPP/Thaksin/UDD because of money, does that mean their political allegiances were different before they were bought?

You're accusing them of vote-buying, which essentially means to gaurantee people to be on your side by paying them. So, if the corrupt politicians weren't paying them, what side were they originally on? Were they PAD supporters who got bought? Also, do you really think the Redshirts would be so committed to their cause if they were only being paid 500 baht per day to do this?

Do you see how this "vote-buying" excuse falls apart? PAD supporters are always using this vote-buying excuse, but they never entertain the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the Redshirts are there because they support their politicians.

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

They DID try that many times,

but TRT and PPP controled mobs broke up the rally's QUITE violently...

Go read up on it.

Hense they were forced to use other measures.

Not all of which I can agree with.

.

Did I say to do it by rallying? There's plenty of ways of educating the rural population that doesn't involve confrontation. And "educating" shouldn't just mean telling them why they should be against the PPP, but also why they should be FOR the Democrats, ie. let them know how you're going to make their lives better.

When I read the solutions of rednecks Americans I'm not surprised anymore that they like a no brainer Sarah Pallin

i didn't know she won, that's awesome news!

exactly... henryalleman fails to see his example is poor at best, as the majority of us "redneck americans" voted against pallin....

I was in NYC when the networks called it for Barack Obama. I've never in my life seen such a collective, unanimous display of pure joy. People of all races and ages rushing out to the streets here in Bed-Stuy, smiling, crying, hugging complete strangers.

One day, I hope Thailand can experience what that is like. Sadly, I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

this whole fiasco has got to get into the Guiness World Book of Records as the most dumb fuc_k up in the history of planet earth in 6 billion years.

I thought that title was owned by the Iraq War.

I think its unwise to read too much into a quote from someone whose first language is not English. I'm quite sure they don't mean to imply they need to start a campaign of brainwashing etc.

The fact is education is sorely lacking in Thailand, and its especially poor in the provinces, ask anyone who does business here. Thats not to say that there not educated people in the rural population but Im quite certain that you will find a higher standard of education in Bangkok it stands to reason.

A better educated population should be in a position to make better choices.

However, I find it sad that the PAD have chosen this route to accomplish this goal, this shows no respect for the rural community. The PAD have missed an opportunity to apply more pressure on the opposition to make rural needs a priority in the Democrats election campaign and could even have taken the education role on themselves.

Spot on on all points, there! That last sentence cannot be repeated enough.

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

If the PAD does get their way, Somchai resigns, and the PAD supporters get the government they want, what's gonna stop the redshirts from closing down airports and taking over government house to bring Somchai and the PPP back?

we have already seen that "the reds" can't get 100 people together without paying them

Why do PAD supporters keep saying that? Do you really think their followers would believe so strongly in their convictions if they were only there for money? I mean, if your accusation is that their followers are just being bought, then there is also a possibility that many there who are pro-PAD but refuse to show it because they were given money. Which would show that the PAD supporters can be bought, too.

I wish the PAD would stop throwing this excuse around and entertain the possibility that maybe, just maybe, those redshirts might actually WANT to be there.

If/when police are planning to storm the facilities, here's some unsolicited advice from afar;

Allow those protesters who want to stay non-violent - to escape the ensuing melee. If mobilizing at night, have a place for them to walk/run to. Suggest; a bank of bright blue lights at a major exit portal, with the assurance that all who exit there will be allowed to go unscathed. another way, is the more common method, used at Entebbe, where everyone is told by authorities to stay prone on the ground. Those protesters who choose to fight with weapons will more likely stand-out - and can more readily be disabled and/or arrested. Regardless, it should be made clear that all those offering no armed resistance will be allowed to go home - whereas any who fight (or are otherwise violent) will be dealt with dynamically.

Police should consider a multi-pronged mobilization, starting with one or two large frontal assault used as feigns (to draw many of the armed fighters from the PAD) - while simultaneously having other groups of cops forcibly enter the premises from other places to actually do the dirty work - (the tarmac, the sides, rappelled to the roof, workers' entrances, etc). The cops used as feigns in the initial assault - can be mobilized for action later -if needed. Also have back-up troops - to deploy as needed.

It's a dire shame that protesters allow children and elderly in their midst. It is quite possible that many will be injured if/when an assault takes place. Tear gas and stray bullets don't discriminate about age.

If the Thai military and police aren't willing to take back the airports and Gov't House - then they're directly or indirectly complicit in the protests - and if so, they're partially responsible for the harm to Thailand's economy.

Unless Somchai and his ilk step down, it's doubtful the protesters will voluntarily split from the scene. I don't agree that a Court decision on Tuesday will clear out the PPP. If the PPP are required to formally, disband, they'll reform in another name - they've already started the organization and have its name. It they're banned for 5 or so years, they'll put proxies in their place. Regardless, they'll appeal any unfavorable verdict. Thaksin is still rich and as eager as ever - to bankroll his minions to further his plans of controlling Thailand (directly or indirectly) - regardless of whatever else happens in the next week or so.

Your theory is perfect.

In reality, Sondhi will call the children, woman and elderly to march toward to police. "Don't be afraid, this is our final final final final fight". The children, woman and elderly march toward the police. What the police going to do?

1. Shoot

2. Run away

My guessing,

American police will choose option 1.

Thai police will choose option 2.

When I read the solutions of rednecks Americans I'm not surprised anymore that they like a no brainer Sarah Pallin

Psychology has a great explanation for this current crisis. It's a term called Groupthink. This part of the wikipedia article is particularly enllightening:

Symptoms of groupthink

In order to make groupthink testable, Irving Janis devised eight symptoms that are indicative of groupthink (1977).

1. Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and encouraging risk taking.

2. Rationalising warnings that might challenge the group's assumptions.

3. Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing members to ignore the consequences of their actions.

4. Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil, disfigured, impotent, or stupid.

5. Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions the group, couched in terms of "disloyalty".

6. Self censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group consensus.

7. Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as agreement.

8. Mindguards — self-appointed members who shield the group from dissenting information.

Groupthink, resulting from the symptoms listed above, results in defective desision making. That is, consensus driven decisions are the result of the following practices of groupthinking:

1. Incomplete survey of alternatives

2. Incomplete survey of objectives

3. Failure to examine risks of prefered choice

4. Failure to reevaluate previously rejected alternatives

5. Poor information search

6. Selection bias in collecting information

7. Failure to work out contigency plans.

If the PAD does get their way, Somchai resigns, and the PAD supporters get the government they want, what's gonna stop the redshirts from closing down airports and taking over government house to bring Somchai and the PPP back?

I wonder though, how many anti-yellows on TV would become anti-reds if that were to happen and they were "inconvenienced" again ?

I would be, for one. There's no excuse to behave like this from either side.

Everyone should support the DAAD - they are the true patriots for Thailand. They love their country and are pursuing a noble cause of stopping the evil/corrupt PAD.

Everyone should support the PAD - they are the true patriots for Thailand. They love their country and are pursuing a noble cause of stopping the evil/corrupt DAAD/PPP.

See where I'm going? Why can't both supporters of both sides have enough common sense to see that it will never end if you keep thinking like this?