JoJo

alternatively he can take the BTS everyday (up and down the lines) and chat the women up........

Buy a day pass...

well, there are always 2 sides to a story.

It could be she got pregnant on purpose to "trap" this guy and now he realises it, does not want anything to do with her nor child. That's also a possibility....it does and has happen! Either which way, the man is an arse.

Another possibility is that the child may not be his or he may suspect so. A simple DNA test would rectify things. However, how would she be able to convince him to do it and who is going to pay for it?

Note : I am not saying he is not nor trying to say anything negative about the Thai woman.

I think I agree with bkkmadness, I doubt she can do anything about it. I doubt the embassy would want to get involved, esp the British Embassy, not without proof anyway.

I do hope it works out for her. Perhaps her family can help out.......

I think it all depends on the individuals, no matter what religion. Take for example, 2 same religion individuals get married, after a few years they get divorced. Nothing to do with religion. There are lots of reasons for a marriage to break down, not only religion.

do you mean a muslim man cannot marry a buddhist girl , but could marry a jewish or christian girl ?

I don't think this applies in the more modern countries anymore. Perhaps in the more Muslim fanatic countries.

Example, in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, there are Muslim men who have married Chinese or Indians. True, most of the non-Muslims have to convert but most modern day open minded Muslims let their spouses do what they want, so long as it is decent and reasonable. I have many friends married to Muslims and although they have "converted" in theory, practically they still are themselves (they eat port, drink and smoke).

According to Muslim law, the Muslims are not permitted to eat pork, smoke or drink alcohol...........from what I have seen, most of the Muslims have already broken at least 2 out of 3 of those. Well, perhaps I know the modern day Muslims and non-fanatical ones.

It is a mistake to marry a Thai IMO, but the damage is done.

Not all Thais are bad same as not all farangs are good. Same for every nationality on this planet!

then you won't get upset over it.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that you have to agree with it...

Not upset as it is no skin off my back. I just don't agree with a pre-set sinsot......if the guy wants to pay, pay what he thinks is fair or can afford, not dictated a certain sum.

Unfortunately it isn't likely to change, so as long as you recognise that and accept that you cannot change it

Sad but very true.

That's why I said I agreed with you on this.........

I think that the sinsod tradition has been utilised as a scam by many Thai families so it is less traditional and more another way of grabbing some extra cash.

Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not having a go at you... but your earlier post about buying "face" and the type of society in which it happens didn't ring quite right with me.

Jai Dee. I understand TOO well the concept of the Thais nowadays, compared to the 80s or 90s. It used to be a disgrace when country girls goes to BKK to work in the bars. Nowadays, it seems it is "encouraged" as the "proespects" are good. Being seen with a farang then seemed looked down upon, but now it seems as if it is in "in" thing to do. Times have changed.

The "face" part seems hypocritical to me as the woman would have lost face (either slept with the man/live with him or was a former BG, hence the loss of face) already and yet greedy parents want a ridiculous amount of sinsot in order to "save face". It's not that I do not comprehend it but its's plain bullshit IMO.

Type of society?....well, tells you a lot if one reads the people properly. That being said, I am NOT saying all Thais are bad, there are sincere ones too, depending on your luck. Same as everywhere else in the world.

I am not having a go at anyone either.

bkkmadness, never said Westerners are not materialistic. I have not met a Western man who has been demanded a certain set amount of money by his western in-laws yet. Have you?

As I said, I was voicing my views on this, did not intend for this to be a debate nor create a ruckus.

on the contrary Jai Dee, I have been here 5 years (residing) and in total 10 years (in and out of Thailand), hence my statement. Not a naive newbie to TH.

I don't think it is wrong to want to help your gf/wife's family out but there are limits. Assistance should be on your own accord and what you want to do....not "demanded" nor expected.

You can build your wife/gf and you a house or buy them that karaoke machine but I do not see why you should hand over a specific sum demanded by them.

It is not my intention to create a ruckus about it but that's my views as a mother, parent and a person who has no emotional ties in this.

Good luck with whatever you want to do.

bkkmadness, if "face" can be bought by money, it tells you a lot about the society and what drives them in life.

No, I think you missed my point.

Woman had sex and perhaps living with the man now.....hence sex before marriage......loss of face. In the scenario where the woman is a BG, she has already lost face. I have nothing against BGs but am trying to clear up the confusion.

So, why should sinsot be a form of saving face when she has already lost face?? Do you understand my point now? IMO, it's just an excuse to get money out of it. Why else would they "demand" a certain sum and non-negotiable?

How can a parent put a price on their own children?? Should be up to the child to think what is best and what they (groom and bride) can afford. As I said, not everyone is rich.......what happens then? Move on to a richer victim.....errr groom?

QUOTE

However, it would seem as if sex before marriage, money-grabbing, losing her virginity, working as a BG......although is a big no-no in the Thai culture is not considered losing face. 

Huh?  JoJo Of course these things are a big loss of face for the family.

Exactly my point! This causes them to lose face and yet they still do it. Get my drift now?

So why stress on the sinsot to save face when they have already lost it?? Hypocrisy?

(Edited as I misread and misposted, corrected now.)

Back to my earlier point which makes sense. If sinsot has to be paid, the groom and bride should decide together (no inteference) as a step to their future TOGETHER. Not by greedy parents/relatives and other greed influenced people.

bkkmadness.......I think that the sinsod tradition has been utilised as a scam by many Thai families so it is less traditional and more another way of grabbing some extra cash.

Loss of face is very important in the Thai culture

This may be true but it is so funny and "convenient" that the loss of face is more important when it comes to sinsot/money.

However, it would seem as if sex before marriage, money-grabbing, losing her virginity, working as a BG......although is a big no-no in the Thai culture is not considered losing face.

toothfairy.....Thank you all for your help, at least thanks to the people that provided useful and thoughtful posts, e.g. Pattaya_Fox, ThaiExpat and mattnich.  Less thanks to the people that provided such thoughtless input as "just throw her a months salary" and "buy yourself out of the wedding now".

I think you are just being biaised here. Thanking those people who post what you WANT to hear and criticising those who do not tell you what you want to hear. Different people, different opinions and experiences. Who are you to think what they say is wrong? Sorry if it's not what you want to hear but you know what, "Hey! That's reality and life!"

The idea is not to bargain your way down to the absolute cheapest price you can pay for your wife....

You are NOT buying your wife, you are showing your naam jai and your greeng jai - your generosity and your wilingness to help your wife and her commitments. Farang generally don't care about 'face' so much (or rather face means something different for farang)

Correct! SO, why pay for her? Why must it be a specific sum set by the parents??? Should it not be between the girl and the man, no outside influence.

For those who understand MARRIAGE, it is already a commitment to help her out. What other insurance does she need?? Marriage is a commitment as it is and it should be based on TRUST. If she does not trust you to help her out without asking for "security" (like a bank), why get married???

If you have money, it is because you were a god eprson in a previous life.

To give a big dowry is a lot of 'face' for everyone involved.

Face seems more important that the happiness of their own children.......it's so sad. Parents arguing and haggling over sinsot amount causes much tension and pressure between the Thai girl and the groom to be. Do they care? NO, so long as they have their "face". Great parenting!

drummer, all is takes is ONE experience for you to lose everthing you have in life..........

One bitten twice shy?

Don't get me wrong, I have never experienced it but I know at least 20 people who have.........

Not all Thais are bad but it's pretty hard to find the good ones. Insisting the future son-in-law HAS to pay a specific non-negotiable sum seems a bit far fetched and unrealisticly selfish to me. It should be up to the future son-in-law and the Thai girl, no other outside influence.

QUOTE(sakaew @ 2005-08-12 11:02:43)

The amount demanded--499,999-- is odd to say the least.

Why not 500,000 baht.

It sounds as if she's needling you

Not at all ... its more odd that they didn't demand 999 999. Consecuative numbers, especially 9s, are considered especially lucky. It takes at least 3 digits be be lucky, and the more consecuative digits the luckier. If you see a license plate with all the same # it probably cost several million baht to buy.

However, it is the long tradition that the girl gives the money to her parents for their outstanding contribution in their lives.

Outstanding contribution?? Outstanding if they make the daughter go to Bangkok to be a bargirl?? Come on....its appalling to know that parents have kids just to extort money from the future son-in-law. They need serious help or do not understand what being a parent means. I am a parent and will never expect my children to pay me back. That's absurd.

I would say that since you can afford it, buy them a really nice house and leave it at that.

I would not do that, you are just making things worse....for the Thais to think farangs are idiots and easy to manipulate.

Or perhaps they think marriage is a game........gotta have insurance just in case I lose the game? (divorce). If you buy a house in TH, it will be in the girl's name anyway, isn't that enough insurance?? More money please??!!!

If the girls loves you, truly just for you......she will marry you no matter what. What if a farang is not well to do and cannot afford the SINsot? will she move on to someone else who can? That's true love??

You would not hand money over to non-Thai women (may it be farang or other Asian ethnicity), so what's soooooo special about them that you would?

Stop making excuses for gold diggers!!

Sorry, I do not understand this sending money to a woman thingy. My opinion, if she wants something, get off her lazy ass and earn it herself! Teaches her independence and the value of money instead of asking it (easily) from a man who is in another country.

Why is this necessary? How did the woman survive prior to meeting you? What obligations or responsibilities do you have towards her? (unless she is your legal wife/has your kids)

For all you know, she could be getting a few thousand bahts from Tom from UK, Dick from USA and Harry from Netherlands. Won't that make you look like a sucker?!

Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't it be better for you or her to call the Visa Centre in Thai CC rather than post it here. Why not just pop in there?

Every visa is a case to case basis and they "hold the reins" (so to speak).

Not sure what kind of visa your gf had the first time she visited Oz (I assume it is a tourist visa) but different visas (tourist and fiancee/spouse) has different regulations and requirements.

From what I know, new visa type, fresh documentation is required.

Have a look at this link

http://www.immi.gov.au/sponsor/partner.htm

Good luck though.

No need to get your knickers in a knot Totster, I don't think toni157 was talking about you in particular.

It may not be you nor the Doc, Totster but trust me there ARE stupid farangs in Thailand. Sad but welcome to the real world!

I doubt a 1 year old boy would be interested in gold or a Buddha Amulet. Is this for the mother or the boy???

Try buying the same thing Insight bought.

detachable, music playing, spinny thing in the end

Or horror of horrors, buy him some English children's books (Nursery rhymes with pictures that moves and etc). I know it is a horrible thought but it is educational. A lot of children lack the love of reading nowadays, never too early to start.

piss someone off here probably. mod?

Sorry, thought you were Indian as I know a Neeranam who is Indian and your avatar is of an Indian deity. I am not Thai so have no idea what it is in Thai.

Well, in that case you will have to go to the Aussie Visa office then, its in Thai CC Tower, 34th Floor. Stop at Surasak BTS.

Are you sure you have the right numbers?

Australian Visa Application Centre

Level 34, Units 2 & 3

Thai CC Tower

889 South Sathorn Road

Bangkok 10120

Telephone 02 6723476 - 79

Email [email protected]

Website www.vfs-au.net

Client Contact hours 0830 - 1630 Monday – Friday (Australian Visa Application Centre)

Alternatively, get your travel agent to do it for you again.

My husband and I are in our thirties too......

I am a morning person though!

Your username sounds Indian and you have a picture of Lord Ganesha as your avatar

Depending on what kind of passport you hold, you can get one online. You must belong to an ETA country.

ETA eligible passports list

Andorra Malaysia

Austria Malta

Belgium Monaco

Brunei The Netherlands

Canada Norway

Denmark Portugal

Finland Republic of San Marino

France Singapore

Germany South Korea

Greece Spain

Hong Kong (SAR) Sweden

Iceland Switzerland

Ireland Taiwan

Italy United Kingdom - British Citizen

Japan United Kingdom – British National (Overseas)

Liechtenstein United States of America

Luxembourg Vatican City

Details and application can be found here, just takes you 3 minutes to apply

http://www.immi.gov.au/e_visa/index.htm

Good luck

Sorry to hear about your hubby, hopes he has a speedy and uneventful recovery

I personally have used this, quite good and fast.

www.flowers2thailand.com

Good luck!

Someone once told me, it is very easy to get a Thai woman if you are in Thailand .......the difficulty is getting a non-Thai Asian woman. Now, that's an accomplishment.

Don't shoot the messenger!