stephenterry

Maybe the RTP could consider prosecuting any that arrive?

The Miller family have to be admired for the way they have handle this horrendous event with dignity.

What if I said crawl back into your hole, worm, but of course I wouldn't as in Thailand it's defamation. Laura has every reason to lambast the Rtp if what she disclosed is factual. And considering the verdict which the Miller family agreed, she really has nothing to gain by her posts.

You seem rather desperate to keep people from learning about the facts of the case.

As for Andy Hall, this is from the report you rather ignore:

"Mr Andrew Jonathan Hall or Andy Hall to testify on the autopsy report of the Second Deceased in Document Lor. 31, claiming that the autopsy report at the United Kingdom did not indicate an abrasive tear on the perineum from the vulva to the anus of the Second Deceased. Mr Andrew also hired an expert from the United Kingdom to conduct a gait analysis of a suspect from CCTV images, comparing that suspect to the second defendant’s motion appeared on the video footage on the date of the incident. The result of the gait analysis provided in Document Lor. 47 indicated that the second defendant was not the same man as the suspect. It is found that this witness did not learn the factual issues or was not directly involved with the case, nor is he an expert on autopsy and the analysis of the two reports. Additionally, the witness is merely the coordinator and recipient of the said reports. Almost all of the facts in the testimony are his personal opinions. His testimony constitutes hearsay evidence because he only refutes what has been written in the reports or claims that an expert has informed him of such information. Unless a relevant expert can testify before the court to confirm the information in such reports, the plaintiff cannot cross-examine the witness in order to properly examine the fact. The testimony alone is without any weight and not worthy of being taken in to account."

The defense wasted at least day of hearings so that he could vent his opinions, they should have focused on the DNA, but they didn't.

More things you rather ignore:

"The plaintiff’s examination presented Mr Mau Mau as a circumstantial witness to the scene before the crime took place. Mr Mau Mau, who is a friend of the two defendants, testified and confirmed that on the said date of the incident, he and the two defendants were playing the guitar and drinking beer and smoking cigarettes in the vicinity of the dry log not far from the crime scene. After that, Mr Mau Mau drove off on his motorcycle. The time indicated by Mr Mau Mau’s testimony was shortly before the crime was committed. Miss Phornthip Singkhamma, witness for the plaintiff, testified that she saw three persons sitting and playing a guitar at approximately 2am, which supports and give persuasiveness to the testimony given by Mr. Mau Mau. The facts provided by the testimonies in this regard are in accordance with the timecodes that appear on the from the CCTV camera footage obtained nearby the crime scene. The examination of two defendants cannot confute this fact and that there was no one else nearby except the two defendants."

The hoe used to kill Witheridge and Miller was normally left at the sample place they were seeing around 2AM:

"In addition, the point where the two defendants and Mr Mau Mau were sitting was in the same place that Mr O (no surname), the plaintiff’s witness, regularly left the exhibited hoe, which is also in the vicinity of the place that the exhibited hoe was found with the two victims’s blood stains."

That place was between were both victims were last seen (again around the same time) and the crime scene.

"The wounds to the head and face of the Second Deceased were all shown to be serious wounds matching the kind of injury that would be incurred by an attack with the blade and handle of the exhibited hoe, as Police Colonel Phawat M.D. and Khunying Pornthip M.D. have testified. The discovery of bloodstains from the Second Deceased on the exhibited hoe further lead to the undeniable suspicion that the exhibited hoe was the weapon used in the attack on the Second Deceased. The serious injury caused to her face occurred after the tear wound that occurred during the rape and so it must be concluded that after the Second Deceased was raped at the crime scene she was attacked and killed with the exhibited hoe. The evidence and connected circumstances lead to the conclusion that there can be no other finding than that the two Defendants used the exhibited hoe as a weapon to attack and kill the Second Deceased at the crime scene. Even though the report of the results of the DNA tests conducted by the Institute of Forensic Science according to Document number Lor. 29 summarises the results and conclusions of the examination that the DNA of the two Defendants did not match the mixed DNA of a male found on the exhibited hoe, this is not signicicant or inconsistent because the mixed DNA of a male that was found on the hoe matched the DNA of the First Deceased. In this case, and based on the evidence given by the witness for the Plaintiff, Mr O, it transpires that Mr O was the person who regularly used the exhibited hoe and even after the crime has been committed Mr O continued to use the exhibited hoe before it was sent off for examination. However, there was no examination for a match with the DNA of Mr O. With regard to the reason for not cinding a match with the DNA of the Offenders on the exhibited hoe, Khunying Pornthip M.D. explained that there could be many reasons for this, such as whether the hands are dry or sweaty which affects whether or not DNA is left on an object, or if the offenders had been wearing gloves or had put a cloth around the handle of the hoe or even if the handle of the exhibited hoe had been washed before being sent off for examination then DNA might not be found. Therefore the absence alone of the DNA of the Defendants on the exhibited hoe alone is not signicicant proof to confute the other evidence of the DNA from the sperm of both the Defendants found in the body of the Second Deceased. The Court hears that after the two Defendants raped the Second Deceased they used the exhibited hoe, which is a hard object with a long sharp edge, to repeatedly attack and kill the Second Deceased causing deep wounds to the head, and bone of the forehead and left eye socket. This points to the fact that both Defendants used the exhibited hoe to attack the Second Deceased with their full force resulting in the death of the Second Deceased and that they had the intention to kill her. Both Defendants are therefore guilty of jointly committing the murder of the Second Deceased in order to conceal their other offense."

Talking about concealing, something more to ignore:

"Mr. Mau Mau for interrogation and found that prior to the incident, Mr. Mau Mau and both Defendants had gone out to play the guitar, drink beer and smoke near the dry log underneath the pine tree. Thereafter, Mr. Mau Mau exchanged his shirt with the Second Defendant and borrowed the motorcycle to ride to his girlfriend’s place. Upon coming back home, Mr. Mau Mau found both Defendants were asleep. Pol. Col. asked Mr. Mau Mau to take him to the house to meet both Defendants. Upon arriving, only the First Defendant was there. From interrogations, the First Defendant could not show his passport and admitted to having illegally entered the Kingdom. The police then detained the First Defendant and seized his clothes and the motorcycle used on the night of crime for further inspection. The police interrogated the First Defendant via a Burmese Translator named Mr. Kamol Uzon, the Evidence Document marked as Jor. 52, and subsequently charged the First Defendant with illegally entering and residing in the Kingdom without due permission, according to the Arrest Record, the Evidence Document marked as Jor. 36. As for the Second Defendant, the police were informed of him having left Koh Tao on a night boat and that he would reach Surat Thani at around 6 hrs. of 2nd October B.E. 2557 (2014), therefore coordinating with Investigation Officers of Surat Thani province to follow up. The Second Defendant was found hiding on the night boat. The police then took his picture and sent it to Mr. Mau Mau for verification."

The Jersey Evening Post article on Jan 9th states that Wei Phyo (the one that fled) said to the police that he left because he had another job, but had never informed his employer he was leaving.

Also mentions that the defense own DNA specialist, Worvee Wiyamu said the forensic work was carried out to international standards.

Explains a lot....

It doesn't explain a lot, it explains everything regards how the judge came to the correct conclusion as to who the guilty parties were for this heinous crime!!

Sure. I have a fairy tale book for children that you should read. Get some ideas on what to post next. IMO the judges did not come to the correct conclusions because the guilty parties who committed this heinous crime were not on trial. But, hey, why let truth get in the way of fiction.

Agree, however this is the point of smedly post. The absence of any explanation other than drowning together with a lack of Cctv or witnesses is reason enough for the family to request more information from the investigation. Coupled with that, the reputation of the Rtp on koh tao is not credible is it?

Nothing in today's Nation online, a small reference - but certainly not given the prominence it deserves - in today's BKP.

Swept under the carpet?

I can't even see an article on the BKP for it.

Such a shame that the junta gagging order has now reached them.

There are two articles in the BKP - one on page 2 and the other before the sports pages. I suggest both of you open your eyes before posting misleading information, and conjecture.

Nothing conjectural or misleading about it - I was clearly referring to the online versions.

Well more fool you for relying on the online version. and to make a point, your statement only grammatically refers to the Nation online, not the BKP, which is how i read it.. Buy and read the paper, unless of course you can't fork out 30 baht. Some people just can't accept they've ever get it wrong.

So readers, rely on my above post as the accurate version of events. And at least for today it hasn't been 'swept under the carpet'.

No hard feelings, dru2. I'm sure we're both happy that it hasn't been 'forgotten'.

With just 11 days left to file an appeal against the court's decision on Christmas eve that handed down the death sentence on the two Myanmar worker's convicted of murdering the Koh Tao backpacker's, Myanmar sends a team of lawyers to Thailand to prepare the appeals case.

http://m.irrawaddy.com/burma/burmese-team-to-thailand-amid-preparations-for-koh-tao-appeal.html

Excellent. Now it's been escalated to government level, and at last some Burmese forensic pros (presumably) are on the job. About time, too. I only hope they will provide a 'dummies' understanding of what DNA evidence needs to be provided in court to be acceptable, as even today (according to BKP) the RTP are still asserting their tests met international standards.

I went to Rahivej hospital to give blood for Lucy on Monday morning. I am A-.

Rajivej reception staff said they don't accept blood donations. sent to the Red cross in the old city.

Just behind Zoe in yellow I went, filled in the form, rejected as I'm over 55 years old.

Good luck young lady.

Ah yes, all citizens and aliens are discriminated above 30 or so, and can't get jobs without a Uni degree. Sorry your helpful gesture wasn't productive, but thankfully the girl has had enough donations to save her life.

Nothing in today's Nation online, a small reference - but certainly not given the prominence it deserves - in today's BKP.

Swept under the carpet?

I can't even see an article on the BKP for it.

Such a shame that the junta gagging order has now reached them.

There are two articles in the BKP - one on page 2 and the other before the sports pages. I suggest both of you open your eyes before posting misleading information, and conjecture.

And what has the wonderful British Embassy been doing of any USE during all of this?...

Sweet fa, no doubt. Waste of time even expecting it.

It would be par for the course that what compensation the Thai authorities offered the Witheridges, they also offered similar to the Miller family. In Laura's statement they rejected the offers, and were then subjected to ongoing indescribable abuse and death threats by THAIS. Logically then, the B2 could not be the killers (because why should the THAIS care?).

That didn't happen to the Millers. So, tell me what decision did the Millers make? Go with the flow. Keep an open mind. Suck up to the hand that feeds it? After all, the B2 were probably implicated, so what's the problem?

As to the murdering stopping, there's little chance of that until the killer(s) are caught - and that won't happen until the island is cleared by the Junta. In Luke Miller's case, the PM should have immediately sent no-nonsense (if any exist) BKK RTP to investigate, not rely on local RTP to fudge the truth yet again.

It would be par for the course that what compensation the Thai authorities offered the Witheridges, they also offered similar to the Miller family. In Laura's statement they rejected the offers, and were then subjected to ongoing indescribable abuse and death threats by THAIS. Logically then, the B2 could not be the killers (because why should the THAIS care?).

That didn't happen to the Millers. So, tell me what decision did the Millers make? Go with the flow. Keep an open mind. Suck up to the hand that feeds it? After all, the B2 were probably implicated, so what's the problem?

As to the murdering stopping, there's little chance of that until the killer(s) are caught - and that won't happen until the island is cleared by the Junta. In Luke Miller's case, the PM should have immediately sent no-nonsense (if any exist) BKK RTP to investigate, not rely on local RTP to fudge the truth yet again.

Sorry to say that Michael Miller has been exposed as a pompish git, then maybe he is scarred and wants to wash his hands of all this and protect mummie and Daddy.

I think he should man up a bit, why let 2 innocent scapegoats die and Mon and his gang run free.

That's maybe a bit strong but I understand why you say it..If he's been threatened with what had happened it's easy to see why they would be scared .Also if they did take money from the RTP as 'compensation' then he's in a hole that's not easy to get out off..If they have and it gets out can you imagine the outcry ! But your right..he needs to wise up, and then man up and hopefully between them all this murdering can stop..

It would be par for the course that what compensation the Thai authorities offered the Witheridges, they also offered similar to the Miller family. In Laura's statement they rejected the offers, and were then subjected to ongoing indescribable abuse and death threats by THAIS. Logically then, the B2 could not be the killers (because why should the THAIS care?).

That didn't happen to the Millers. So, tell me what decision did the Millers make? Go with the flow. Keep an open mind. Suck up to the hand that feeds it? After all, the B2 were probably implicated, so what's the problem?

As to the murdering stopping, there's little chance of that until the killer(s) are caught - and that won't happen until the island is cleared by the Junta. In Luke Miller's case, the PM should have immediately sent no-nonsense (if any exist) BKK RTP to investigate, not rely on local RTP to fudge the truth yet again.

My bet is on misadventure but I could be wrong, owing to a lack of any verified evidence or witness statements or friends statements or anything other than a Rtp speculation about what happened. I think misadventure in all its forms describes this unfortunate death accurately. RIP Luke Miller.

Until it's verified as being genuine, the poster called Maria Miller should be ignored as being a troll.

Unfortunately, the ready access to drugs on this island could have led this unfortunate to overdose (see FB page for details of his NY bender). About time the junta clamp down hard once and for all.

Being realistic, I guess these mafia run businesses which generate billions of baht are untouchable. Where is a Thai Eliot Ness, when you need him?

Whatever the circumstances, another nail in the coffin for koh tao. Can't wait for the local authorities to sweep it under the carpet.

Boring and rabbiting. And pure speculation. Keep on track, boom.

The appeal can present new evidence. ,but it must be to do with the original court hearing. So if there was a new picture that showed someone else doing the crime or sound evidence that the b2 could not possibly have been there. That would be acceptable. But if they wanted to present evidence about the mafia at Koh Tao, if it was not mentioned in the court of first instance, then no. They can only challenge what is in the first court.

So does that mean if evidence was presented that showed Mr X and Mr Y committed the crime the Burmese could be released, but Mr X and Y would not be committed?

Not accurate to state new evidence is permitted. This is the actuality.

There won’t be any new evidence or witness in the Appeal Court; Nakhon (defence lawyer) explained; the appeal trial would be mostly an “interpretation” of existing evidence.

Have you lot not accepted the result yet. How many years will you be at it? It's over, get on with your lives.

There is an appeals process underway, as the PM has made quite clear. Until that avenue has been exhausted, the case is still open as is the verdict.

Everyone needs to stop!

First step that quite a few have forgotten. What type of trial was this? By Thai Judges... In Thailand!

Are the Suspects Thai? No they are as it stands (unless they are released) from Burma or if you want to correct me, Myammar.

Now are the Victims from Thailand? No they were both British Subjects!

So if they were tried in a Thai Court, by Thai Judges. This Court was bound to abide by International Law! Thus the trail was ordained in the normal Thai fashion, fashioned by the people who thought it would, like smoke... just disappear.

I don't think any of the evidence push through the Court, addressed International Requirements.

As the B2 being found the perpetrators in the case of Murder of both Victims... The Court being presented with the fact the presented Murder weapon being a "Hoe"... Yet their DNA was not found anywhere on it! What was found was Hannah's and that of two yet unnamed individuals! DNA here was classified by the Police as of no coincidence, so it was not introduced. Why because it would have help the presiding Justice's see a huge flaw. In fact David was not killed with it he was knocked unconscious, and either by the massive trauma's his head underwent (physical blows and punctures) then dropped in the surf possibly Drowned. Not once was the major trauma to his face... Sides of his head... Even disclosed in Court. Fact being this sounds being close to an inch deep each, everyone being identical, the massive blood that was loss here was major! How much flesh does a human have covering their scull?

Now you decide if International Law was followed here...

One last point to remind everyone... Yes the B2's DNA was charged to be on or in Hannah's body. What was presented in Court was " Here Say!" No evidence was every produced or presented!

It seems that the DNA that was collected, mixed with Hannah's was from 3 males! Not just 2... But the 3rd was conveniently omitted... Why? If the sperm found on a Victim is enough to convict individuals of Murder... Who is the 3rd Male? Plus just so you understand, Hannah was alive! When she had sex! This is proven by certain chemicals to be mixed with the boys DNA!

What it seems is that in Thailand you can be Sentenced to Death on "Only" someones word...

"What was found was Hannah's and that of two yet unnamed individuals!"

One of the male profiles was from David Miller, the other was a partial profile that matched 25% of one of the Burmese's profile:

The prosecution asked Mr Waiyawuth if the third, incomplete, profile could belong to one of the suspects. He replied that only a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile.

The prosecution said: “So his participation cannot be ruled out.”

Mr Waiyawith replied: “No, but he cannot be included either.”

"DNA here was classified by the Police as of no coincidence, so it was not introduced"

The results you are talking about came from the defense retest of the hoe, so it was not part of the prosecution case.

"Why because it would have help the presiding Justice's see a huge flaw. In fact David was not killed with it he was knocked unconscious, and either by the massive trauma's his head underwent (physical blows and punctures) then dropped in the surf possibly Drowned. Not once was the major trauma to his face... Sides of his head... Even disclosed in Court"

The summary of the judgment specifically says you are wrong:

The characteristics of the wounds on the body of the first victim also matched the shape of the exhibited hoe. This circum stance therefore indicated that both defendants used the exhibited hoe as a weapon to harm the first victim, in order to facilitate committing the action of rape to the second victim

"Fact being this sounds being close to an inch deep each"

I suppose you mean wounds not sounds. Where do you get the "fact" that they are an inch deep each? From looking at poor quality photos or just repeating what online "detectives" say after looking at poor quality photos?

The conclusion of the autopsy, you know, by someone that had more to go on than a crummy photo, is that the wounds matched the shape of the hoe.

"One last point to remind everyone... Yes the B2's DNA was charged to be on or in Hannah's body. What was presented in Court was " Here Say!" No evidence was every produced or presented!"

Except for the people that did the DNA analysis testifying in court, that is not hearsay, that is first hand witness testimony which the defense did not contest.

"It seems that the DNA that was collected, mixed with Hannah's was from 3 males! Not just 2"

No, it doesn't seem like that, that's just the internet rumor machine doing its job, there was DNA from 2 males at 3 places.

"What it seems is that in Thailand you can be Sentenced to Death on "Only" someones word..."

Again, why don't you read the judgment summary to inform yourself?

The Prosecutor’s evidence both the DNA testing result, where the DNA of both defendants matched with the DNA of the offenders, and the material evidence at the crime scene as well as the circumstantial evidence both before and after the incident are relevant and valid as they can prove beyond reasonable doubt that both of the defendants were the offenders who raped the second victim, even without considering any other facts or circumstances such as the defendants’ confessions following a rrest and at the interrogation stages.

Material evidence is "not someone's word"

Material evidence that hasn't been verified, so hearsay is correct .

Not that it matters unless the defence appeal provides a dummy down guide to what constitutes acceptable DNA evidence in a court of law as the verdict indicates a lack of understanding.

My grandkids live here. Makes it worth it...plus B30 water bill, B35 going out to eat meal (veggie restaurant) B40 once a week trash pick up (and they supply the bags) house paid for (not much of a place but paid for) all this helps too...Nice though to head to a island durning the smoky time...Love it here beside those 3 smoky months. Did not move here for the weather being from LA but it's not to bad.

Nope don't but wife does....we have well water plus all water the community has set up which cost B30 baht a month..Have to pay 6 months though in advance:) ... We actuarially live in Mae Rim....close enough to CM.

But, that was a good question...thanks

Ah yes, the well water. Here in CM I pay 160 baht a month for government water. Three adults showering twice a day, washing machine twice a week and daily gardening water hosing. Apart from the washing up. Can't beat that for value. Unless you have a well, that is.

I would surmise not a happy ending.

My grandkids live here. Makes it worth it...plus B30 water bill, B35 going out to eat and meal (veggie restaurant) B40 once a week trash pick up (and they supply the bags) house paid for (not much of a place but paid for) all this helps too...Nice though to head to a island durning the smoky time...Love it here.

Do you wash?

Topic dm07, not the poster. How many more times do not feed him

CM is fine - as long as the annual smoke doesnt bother you -

Smoke arrived this morning, and it's a real choker.

The mountains have gone.[/q

What was you smoking last night?