leolibby

Karma is not like "every action equals opposite and equal reaction." Because emotions are not so clear cut.. anger is neither positive or negative.. anger could motivate one to correct an injustice. Causing pain can have positive effects.. like if you disciplin a child. Being hurt in a relationship can cause you to learn valuable lessons. Showing too much affection to a dog might make the dog not obey you at all (happened to me).

Rebirth is both moment to moment and life to life. In the absence of a soul or immortal element I don't think you can say Kamma is 'recorded' anywhere, but that each subsequent moment or life is the result of the quality of previous actions.

do you mean future events are influenced by our knowlege of our past actions? if so I like that better because it takes into account intention.. like there is a difference between if you kill an a an animal just to see it in pain, and if you kill it to feed your family. If just the physical act of killing mattered, there would have to be a spirital medium to record the event.. like a soul or an akashic record.

Trying to define or understand the metaphysical (kharma) is like trying to find the end of the world by walking.

And yet it is often used to explain.. for example, ants drowning in water because thhey were moving toward sugar

Personally I don't really care if it can be rationalised or not.

I try and do good because I want to do good things, not to gain merit.

I do meditation to try and improve my thinking.

I avoid killing etc not because I'm frightened of being reincarnated as a cockroach, but because I don't want to kill anything.

I just want to practice and not worry about carrots or sticks.

Graham

I totally agree. The idea of karma adds no substance to Buddhism.

Thesis: Karma is a meaningless superstition not supported by empiracle evidence.

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There was a comment on this board claiming that If a man happened to be born in a hunter-gatherer society, it would be due to his "bad karma"? That explanation is a sorry attempt to explain why the man might have to hunt.... Who hoestly believes that?

Good.

what if u listen to music on youtube, but ignore the advertizements?

There are lots of Hindus, Christians and athiest in Malaysia... i'm not sure about buddhists.

As I recall, beetles also get trapped on their back. whenever i correct the situation, they just fall over again.. apparently, their legs are too long.. so I just leave beetles.

... everyone would help... people like to help others, thats the human default setting...

maybe you want to discuss, if one should consider this bad luck of falling onto the back as the turtles fate and accept that - and not intervene with fate...

but part of the turtles fate is also YOU, who came along...

Apparently this is a Zoroastrian test.. a Zoroastrian guy said the correct answer is an "awakened" person will leave it alone..because of the whole "don't interfere with fate" thing. i disagree though. when we are interacting with life.. we can't let our false sence of spirituality affect other people. If that turtle was a man instead, and we left him, it would be wrong no matter how awake we are.

Also how many awake people live in the physical world? how many of those just think they're awake? why shouldnt an awake person help anyway. "fate" is a man made concept.

But can anyone think of any reason why the turtle must be left as it is? Maybe another buddhist is supposed to find it dead and eat it?

You're hiking along a river and you pass a turtle that is on its back and struggling to get up. It appears it has been like this for hours or days, and will probably die unless helped.

Do you leave it how it how it is? or help it?

You must have been quite a soldier to get into devotional yoga whilst in active service. Did your officers know, or were you a secret practitioner?

Oh its perfectly ok to practice any religion. I also used to believe in elves and i lent my commander a collection of elf love letters. I also used to bring a little plush toy to work.

And do you mean the earth is round? It's not.. it is elliptoid.. I commend you for this brilliant analogy though... the flat/round earth analogy had defeated me many times. I salute you Sir.

Buddha encouraged people to verify what he said for themselves and not accept the dogma of any age

Did Buddha also encourage us to have our own thoughts about his potential character flaws?

Or is buddha absolutely, self-evidently flawless?

I was in the Army when I got into it; at first I read one of Srila Prabhupada's books and rejected it and him... he was vendcative... but I came back to it. I rejected it again when I sought initiation, and was told I would be expected to enter an arranged marriage.. (a sexless marriage of course). I can't do the Hare Krishna chant either... not even silently.

well, I can't answer about buddha's life story... all those stories from his early years are probably made-up.

Buddhism is not escape because i think it is generally devoid of beliefs unlike other religions. ie you can practice it and work at the same time. However, it is unfortunate that it is somewhat an organized religion.

the Enlightened state, or nibbana, is devoid of joy, however. When you enter nibbana, you merge with the impersonal brahman effluegence... there is just an absence of sorrow. Your identity will be totally lost.. that's why hindus hate it. You can reach spiritual liberation without udergoing ego death. I have no idea why people want to end suffering... sorrow is what gives joy its meaning. The monks living off alms are supposed to provide advice, counsel and wisdom in return.

Denying ego can be escapism, absolutely.. it can be a way to avoid responsibility.

Within the Hindu faith the state of enlightenment is named "Sahaja Samadhi" and is similar in concept to "Nibbana". Accordingly I believe you are mistaken in your comment regarding loss of identity from a Hindu viewpoint (i.e. Vedanta) From my intellectual understanding both Hinduism and Buddhism have the discipline of transforming the individual Ego (self) to conscious union with the Absolute (Brahman). it is not a matter of denying the ego, but of transformation. As said in the Upanishads, Om Tat Sat - Thou art That.

maybe. I'm just saying what I've heard... and the brand of vaishnavism I followed values devotion (bhakti yoga). It's been years since I studied this though

Sounds to me like he was just running out on responsibility. How can a sheltered child develop any responsibility? if a man abandons his wife and child now, there is no excuse. See it for what it is-- why does he wait until he has a child to leave?

Personally I think Gotama knew about old age and sickness, but perhaps not death. Either way, when he found out that the 'clock was ticking' he went and sought more. The story has been dramatised and I'm willing to bet his education played a larger role in his decision than his chauffer.

Yeah. He probably received a Hindu education.. and I'm not sure if it's possible to be a hindu and not know about death.. maybe he just thought humans have llike 1000 years to live. No one knows if my condition is terminal .. it is a genetic mutation that causes part of my brain to slowly degenerate. sounds fun huh? the mutation is not known, that's why they dont know. But luckily there is no pain or mental decline

Lol. Not prozac. But just about everything else I could lay my hands on. Escaping reality. I became a monk to face it, without chemical aid.

I admire you for being honest and not defensive. I have never been depressed since I was 17.. I never have nightmares, i never get grumpy, or angry (except on internet forums). Plus, im termanilly ill, but i see life as positive and beautiful.. I love talking to people, smiling and singing.

I also don't drink or smoke

I'm sure if you follow your path, youll be successful

@Leolibby; "did he have a low iq?"

Are you serious? Are you comparing discovering the path to enlightenment with realising santa isn't real? Could you be a bit more respectful please.

No, I can't. If an adult believes humans are immortal, and never get sick or injured, something is wrong with them.

Back on topic, I believe that the opposite is true. To remain in the world outside the search for truth, samsara, is to live in a kind of complexified game. Money is a ridiculous concept yet it now defines the value of everything. Governments and business are run by greedy clowns who want nothing more than more money and power. War is waged against invisible enemies for paper thin reasons. Sex dominates everything from advertising, the internet and all media to peoples minds and by extension defines many lives. Drugs and alcohol, legal or not, provide a vast percentage of the population with the respite they need from the constant pressure to fulfil some imaginary role in this absurd mechanism. Not many years ago, when it all got too much, the doctor would advise you go on holiday and do nothing. The cure for the stress it causes was to ignore it. Now they give you prozac. Hooray. "one great big festering neon distraction." Aenima. Tool.

No, I think to follow the Buddhist path is to take the bull by the horns and seek the truth in the only place you'll ever find it. Yourself.

I'll be sure not to ever meet you. You dont see anything good in life or people. It seems you hate life, which is opposite of buddist teachings; You mention prozac... obviously you have been on that.

I just think that story of him not knnowing about sickness or death until he was like 30.... well it's obviously a myth.

No, I don't think it's a myth. He was kept away from all such sorrows of life and a led a closely guarded life within the confines of the palace/city walls on the order of his parents who were deeply concerned about his well-being (since they were told by an astrologer many years ago that he will certainly renounce his wordly life if he encountered the harsh realities of his life)

His parents (the king & queen) ordered that only a happy facade should staged before the eyes of their son within the city walls until that one fateful day....

I think this is quite believable since are no such miracles in this story.

It's very different from how Jesus was miraculously conceived by Virgin Mary or Jesus walking on water etc.

He never got sick?

He must have noticed age... he aged, his parents aged... If he believed people are immortal, how did he explain the fact that everyone he saw was relatively young?

Did he have a low IQ? I knew santa was a myth when i was 7... and no one told me.. i just saw the logical flaw in believing one man can visit millions of houses in one night.

If he did leave his wife and child on impuse, that shows that he probably could not be confined. He would have snuck out to get one of those questions answered before.

astrology is myth... the story is meant to endear Buddah to us.. this is the last reply you'll get from me

Buddhists don't devote themselves to God. There is no God in Buddhism.

Although you can be a buddhist who believes in God. Buddha believed in gods.

But in Buddhism, God has nothing to do with enlightenment; it's all up to you. Buddha is NOT worshiped, despite what some Buddhists think. And also despite the fat jolly chinese buddha whose tummy you rub for good luck.

I am not associating Buddhist enlightenment with God. And, they do revere Lord Buddha, burn joss sticks before his statue, perform ablutions, washing the statues of Buddha in the temples for instance on the day of Songkran even if they don't consider him as a God.

They may not directly address him as God but consider him to be their philosopher & guide very much like Sikhism (a religion) in India.

Some Thais do think he's God... but the rituals you described are misguided... maybe they cansider him God on a subconscious level.. I believe what you say.

I just think that story of him not knnowing about sickness or death until he was like 30.... well it's obviously a myth.

Buddhists don't devote themselves to God. There is no God in Buddhism.

Although you can be a buddhist who believes in God. Buddha believed in gods.

But in Buddhism, God has nothing to do with enlightenment; it's all up to you. Buddha is NOT worshiped, despite what some Buddhists think. And also despite the fat jolly chinese buddha whose tummy you rub for good luck.

well, I can't answer about buddha's life story... all those stories from his early years are probably made-up.

Buddhism is not escape because i think it is generally devoid of beliefs unlike other religions. ie you can practice it and work at the same time. However, it is unfortunate that it is somewhat an organized religion.

the Enlightened state, or nibbana, is devoid of joy, however. When you enter nibbana, you merge with the impersonal brahman effluegence... there is just an absence of sorrow. Your identity will be totally lost.. that's why hindus hate it. You can reach spiritual liberation without udergoing ego death. I have no idea why people want to end suffering... sorrow is what gives joy its meaning. The monks living off alms are supposed to provide advice, counsel and wisdom in return.

Denying ego can be escapism, absolutely.. it can be a way to avoid responsibility.