LawrenceChee

Sapa is a world of different experiences ...if you check out the Victoria Sapa Resort...it's a fantastic experience

From the check in at the train station and the luxury bed to the transfer ...it's a stunning and relaxing experience

The journey from Lao Cai train station to Sapa is about 45 mins and you an opt to upgrade your ride if you like ...if not the driver of the van drives safely and there is an occasional pothole here and there but the ride is not uncomfortable and really scenic

Once you are at the resort there are lots of options to do an easy trek or even have a good walk in the city and nearby attractions

Food is beautiful at the setting of the mountain views

Sadly, he is 100% correct...the service in general in Thailand and at Swampy, in particular, is dreadful. One would never see this abysmal service in Tokyo...

True that is because once you get in the taxi ...to are paying for the quality ride into the city centre

The Japanese has some of the best rides in the world with very polite and honest drivers ....it cost me USD$60 for my recent ride into town and yes there was no negotiation as everything is fixed price and orderly in Japan. it's an expensive ride in an expensive city

I think for my vacation and down time ...I will stick to my Thai driver and speak politely in thai and get my my 350 baht ride into town ...so far I have not been fleeced

The sign are so plain and in bright red at the arrival hall

Drug trafficking in Indonesia carries the death penalty

The person chose to ignore that.

I made a point that laws have to be respected and not trying to compare one or the other

If you can respect laws ...you have to pay the penalty as prescribed by the laws ...every democratic country has it own sets of laws

Many entering the country , one is subject to it whether you may agree or like it

Yes he was a trafficker ...maybe he had some reasons to do so ...maybe he was down and out and maybe he was used by the big lords

Irregardless ...he broke the law , he saw the signs ...it's big and red in the arrival hall

He chose to break it and I don't think it's an unreasonable law

Indonesia has every right to execute him ....if someone disagrees they should look for a country to traffic where the laws guarantees you a life sentence instead and take that gamble

It's a sovereign country with laws ....I support Indonesia for standing up to what they believe in

Every country has some laws which one may not agree with personally ,..however to expect these to be changed based on other countries preference should not be the democratic way to rule

People should respect the rules ...we hate the visa run and reporting but doesn't stop people who love Thailand from returning ...we may wish for it to change and hope it's close but till then you still have to respect the laws no matter whether u agree with it or not

Has this guy landed at Heathrow recently?! Now this is an airport worth complaining about.

all true but The Brits don't advertise their land as "The Land of Smiles" and you can bet your ass that the taxi will use the meter.

Tourists come here expecting what they see advertised. But their first day is likely to be much different.

Typical new arrival's first 4 hours in Thailand:

Arrive at airport and wait 30+ minutes to clear Immigration. After clearing customs mafia people approach and try putting you in expensive taxi ( 800 baht to town) which having no real idea you accept. Get to hotel and go out in Bangkok for dinner and shopping. Walking down Sukhumvit and be propositioned by black and Thai hookers and ladyboys. You have little children trying to sell you gum while you are walking by dildos, fake watches, copy name brand shirts, pocket books etc.... You sit down on the street to eat some noodles and you see rats running around your feet. After paying inflated farang price you decide to move on. Thinking about going back to hotel guys approach showing you sheets listing pingpong and sex shows. Walk a little more and a Tuktuk driver wants to take you to get body massage or to meet girls. being tired and overwhelmed you go to get a taxi back to your hotel that should cost 50 baht and they ask for 200 baht. Not knowing and only wanting to get back you pay the money and head back to your hotel hopefully without being stopped by police for a piss test ..... You have only been in Thailand for 4 hours and are already ready to go back home.

I am sorry that describes only one category of tourists in a few sois in Sukumvit

I propose a different kind of Thailand ...

Landed in swampy ...have an express immigration clearance at 850 baht pre-booked and watched the agaped mouths as you are escorted by a pretty lass to the front of the line

Once you clear customs...walk out to your private limo from Peninsula hotel ....a nice slow drive with a cup of champagne or orange juice while you settle down and relax hot towels in your hands

Arrived at Peninsula or Shangrila ...relax in a fantastic dim sum lunch at Meijiang and after that book a private boat to Wat Arun and watch the sunset from the cafes across at one of the fancy boutique hotels

For dinner ....head up for cocktails at Intercontinental Hotel Lounge by flashing your Visa Black / Infinite card and relax the night watching the heady lights of Bangkok

When you are done, engage in some great dinners at one of the fantastic restaurants available in Thonglor and watch the Thai ladies dressed in their nines chatting away

Preferable driver waiting ( as it is for top suite guests in Peninsula)

After that fall sleep in your down pillows and wish tomorrow will start for another adventure in Bangkok

Being clean and sober is great thing and we respect you for that

However when you walk into a country with the intention to be a trafficker and ignore all the signs that are big plain and in red is unfortunately a different scenario

A cleaned up user is different from a trafficker ....we are not bigots and believe in a matter of choice

There must be a good medical or personal reason why you decided personally for yourself to be clean and sober

No drugs availability means less worries about healthcare taxation and broken families

So I support a tougher sentence to ensure drugs do not flow in easily to a country

I travel internationally a lot and I don't believe the airport in Thailand is any different.

As a main point of entry , logically one would expect crowds, long lines and surly staff.

If you see 1000+ folks in your line and know you can't get off work early ....trying to use the word stay professional is quite hard ...I work in hospitality industry and its hard to keep the smile up for 10 hours at all sorts

when I fly into Thailand ...I distinctly dropped my efficient mindset I get on Incheon, Singapore or HK...this is Thailand and the honest observation is the further I get from the city ....the more thainess I experience

This is probably why flying into chiangmai or one of the smaller airports have always been my preference when logistically possible

Granted the taxis in Japan are very very hard to beat in comparison once you have used them as I have not seen cleaner taxis than them all over the world ...the dirtiest taxis I have seen are on France and USA

As for the taxi scams , take a bit of effort and learn some Thai ...every time I have got out of the airport ....speaking thai and paying the tolls yourself means I have always paid the meter price , rounding it up at the end of the journey is a nice touch plus the 50 baht extra ...so if the fare is 279 ....I always give 350

Baht

It's drugs and serve no purpose in normal life unless it is is medicinal

You drink alcohol ? Glass of wine with a nice dinner ?

Cup of coffee in the morning to 'Get going ?'

Like sugar ?

The difference in destruction of family life by drugs vs a caffeine rush is very very different

Can you get drugs in 7-11 vs a cup of instant coffee ? Why must it be bought secretly through dark streets ?

That alone tells you this is not a normal product aiant it ?

The smugglers have been warned ..,.its in your arrival card and announcements in the plane and also in the arrival hall

It's drugs and serve no purpose in normal life unless it is is medicinal

I support the harsh measures as normal families need to be protected from them.

I think anyone that discounts China in the context of the global economy and its effects needs to read Alice in Wonderland again as it panders to the imaginary world ...

Chinese New Year starts Feb 19 and last for 15 days ....

People's lives and their savings , dreams and aspirations are at at risks when an entire country sinks ....it's times like these when strangely speaking , being a communist works better than the West

They have grown too big and come too far to sink it and be bloodied in history books as the President that sunk China

President Xi and Premier Li shoulders the burden of trying to resolve this so that every generation of CCP leaders would not be remembered as the leaders who let down the Chinese

They have no bi partisan politics to fight , they have the resources to make unilateral decisions and this is where true leaders are made ..everything is your disposal ...make a wrong decision and be remembered as the failure for yourself and your family name

@Publicus: re your statement that an Economic crash would mainly impact China itself and East Asia, I think you completely underestimate 1) how interconnected the Global economy has become and 2) how important China has become as a Global growth engine. If there will be an economic contraction in China, believe me you will have an ugly Global recession. If the economic contraction in China comes in form of a financial collapse, it will get even more uglier everywhere. Most Global companies not only produce significant amounts of goods in China but also sell a lot of goods in China, and the growing amount of spending power of Chinese consumers is hugely important to the Global economy. Have a look at the Global car makers, food producers, producers of electronic goods, etc etc., for many of them China is either their no 1 market globally or amongst the top 3.

This is not in keeping with grandfathers opinion of all things Asian, "China's system can't work long term because they are copiers rather than innovators. They have been working at cheap rates for their Masters which are the Western countries."

Yes they did copy a lot of things but they are more and more inventing new things as well. Just wait, a lot of Great Chinese companies are coming. Have a look at a Alibaba for instance. Also they are damn good at manufacturing things otherwise Global companies wouldn't move production to China.

Create a premium product with features and looks wanted by consumers and at an affordable price 1/3 of both Apple / Samsung starting at $300.

No wonder in 4 years of their operations they have now surpassed both market innovators in China and basically replicating that in India and Indonesia and gaining fast ground..

Their introduction to the market forces Apple to experiment with the colorful 5c and Samsung Alpha model but they could not replicate the functions and design and speed of the processor at the same price

I just introduced Taibao to a few friends who work at Amazon and while the basic model is rather identical ....there are a few functions that Taobao can do that Amazon users cannot

Of course it helps if you can read or write Mandarin ...

I'm not an adherent to the cult known as Christianity, but I like what Jesus said when asked whether it's good to pay taxes: He asked the questioner to show him a coin. He looked at it and saw a depiction of the Roman top banana at that time - handed the coin back, and with a grin, said, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

How it applies to the topic: The impending implosion (or 'correction') of China's economy will hurt big shots to the extent they're entwined with aspects of China's finances. More dire, will be the millions of 'little people' - workers, who just try to scrape together a few bucks to eke out a living. But the quote above applies to the well-off, and could be tweaked to say, "to the extent a person is enmeshed in Chinese money matters, ....that's the extent that person will be burned when the house catches fire."

There has been numerous changes in recent years to the tax system in China including now a much discussed revised property tax in the first tier cities

As I say China surprises some if you thought it was communist and there is no personal income tax. It does exist although I would say the smarter Chinese have often found a way around it .

Pretty much like the worldwide trends of billionaires moving to Singapore citizenship to take advantage of a lower personal tax or Apple basing much of its revenue operations in Ireland to pay lesser tax .

Lots of examples in the corporate world eg Cayman Islands etc etc and in some countries where this revenue is more needed , it's a little annoying

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/china/china_tax.asp

The scenario I presented on just Chiangmai alone is factual and not some hallucinating visions

The Chinese disappearing in Thailand would just mean the rise back of the rude drunken louts or Russians which I personally think is more distasteful

I think while the Thais may find certain Chinese habits unpleasant ...there is no denying at least there is money to clear off the table with them rather than wipe vulgarities and puke off the floor of drunks

Very interesting and welcome back....been wondering where the independent minded but determined Voice of China had been during all of the CCP bashing going on.....these new guys are simply superficial smooth talkers who lack the punchy impact of your classic post that we around here are used to.

So the post gives us the old long train of possible horrors, i.e., all the millions of detailed everyday things that would disappear from life if the PRChina economy radically slowed, hit a serious crisis, or if it were to nosedive, crash and burn. The workings of the feverish mind that sees before his eyes and in vivid detail the vanishing of life as we know it.

Hardly.

Persistently weak commodity prices in Thailand are hurting the country's economy, not the financial chaos occurring in the PRChina. This is World News and not a Thailand thread so I won't spend much time on your extended post, except to say the 1997 financial crisis here didn't result in 10% of what you presented in the post. Restoring subsidies to northern rice farmers also will impact a strained budget that will further strain the current ruling clique.

As to the topic more directly, the Chinese who are adaptive, nimble, successful risk takers, enterprising entrepreneurs and the like have all left China or are Chinese born, raised, educated outside of the PRChina, away from the malevolent control from birth of the CCP. Almost all of the Chinese I know, in Hong Kong to name but one instance, that were born, raised, educated, outside of the PRChina practically froth at the mouth when they talk about the CCP as well they should be expected to.

Impassioned and earnest presentations of the virtuous Chinese are needed and welcomed to constantly remind some of us that the CCP does not represent or bamboozle all Chinese. It is always a welcome moment to hear the Chinese speak their contempt and disdain of the CCP, but one needs to go elsewhere for that.

Was busy making capitalist decisions in the business world

This is a weak argument ....I can find you aplenty of PRC who would critique the government (frothing is a bit rude honestly) and think they are not on the right path or doing the right thing privately and as I have repeatedly posted , no real Chinese would believe in the government but understand the necessity of having one to in the place

Their opinions however doesn't mean they are the government or have a say in governance ...as we all know there are aplenty of armchair critiques who just like to implode everything but has zero actual civil governance experience or actually even want to do anything to make a difference

By the way ...my usual retort to HK folks who are still delusional and refuse to believe they are Chinese or spite their perhaps culturally less cosmopolitan cousins is that they have a duty to help reform it and not just blabber rubbish.

I do understand a 100 year rule may make one think they are British but as long as you enjoy that bowl of "chok" and your dough sticks ....it's still Chinese blood flowing inside so stop thinking you are British and accept reality like what a real Chinese would

I will use Chiangmai as an example seeing this is where I stay as an example of what will happen when the Chinese infamously implodes and collapses

(I don't support this theory nor think it will happen anytime soon)

Mango Tango and Iberry located in Nimman which serves out 169 baht mango sticky rice & see lines formed by Chinese tourist 30 mins prior to opening will go bankrupt overnight and the owners will return to a realistic 30 baht per packet although they would have to sell their Ferarris too

Standard Bus Tours which ferries almost all of the 150,000 Chinese group tourists every 6 months will collapse and all the drivers will lose their jobs and they can join the songtaew association hoping for a Farang fare to Central Festival and all the buses will be available for fire sales in the monthly government auction along with the Thais selling their trucks from losing their jobs

All the tuk tuk drivers who took up the extra loans to buy extra tuk tuks for the FIT tourists will join the bankruptcy rolls

The estimated 300,000 Chinese guests who visited CM for the first half of the year will disappear and along with that an average of 450,000 room nights ( twin sharing averaging 3 night stay) ; hotels will start mass terminations and the beer drinking crowds will not be available to fill the rooms at the fancy resorts or the many guest houses ....along with that all the Thais who work in the hotels and the ancillary services that support these workers ( transport , food stalls etc)

Overnight most of the scooter rental operators will go bankrupt although it means no more Chinese tourists stopping in the middle of the highway reading maps or snapping a picture

Take away the 300,000 from the street stalls, Sunday Mkts etc etc and you can also see a slowdown to the craftsman or artisans who makes these items

Take away the same 300,000 from Sankanpeng buying up bird nest, commissioned shops and also the handicraft factories and add the tour guides who lost employment

And of course no one buying up Thai rice overstocks to feed their prisoners ....

Any collapse of China will see an immediate collapse of Chiangmai ...multiple that effect on the entire Thailand with the disappearance of 4.5 million Chinese tourists in 2014 and most nations right now with major deals inked .. ASEAN , Africa , Australia, Caribbean Islands, Russia, USA, EU

One will be a fool if you think the west or anyone has prepared for that calamity to follow as some posters have indicated that the west has started to prepare for life without China

The inter connectivity of trade makes that impossible for China to be taken out as they are too important and too interlinked to collapse

The Chinese leadership is determined to fixed this problem and unlike previous governance , you have not seen President Xi or Li denying it exists ...it tells you of the level of attention it is already getting in their efforts in restructuring the economy to make it right

I am hopeful for the youth in China to make the country prosperous ...just meeting recently two 6 year old girls at a Hang Dong cafe 2 weeks ago fills my heart with pride that the Chinese will always stay adaptive , nimble and be the risk takers of commerce

I stated in an earlier post on another thread, mothers came to Chiang Mai a year ago on a tour and then decided to come back as they liked the environment , buy an apartment and enroll their girls in American Pacific Intl School ...in 6 months of full immersion here in CM, the girls speak enough Thai to order food for their mums , speak above average English with an English accent from their teachers and classmates and of course maintain their cute charm speaking in Mandarin to their mums ...they are prime examples of innovation , risk taking and adaptability of the Chinese people

stevehaigh

Thanks Steve I am looking forward to reading your trip report, as I am interested in Sapa too. What's the easiest way to get there from Hanoi, and how long does it take to get there?

Almost every travel agent sells the daily tickets there and there are various categories available

I believe the fanciest carriage belongs to the Victoria Resort but I have also used the $40-$50 ones and they are very well appointed in wood / nightlight and very comfy beds

I suggest an overnight bag for the 1-3 nights you stay at Sapa...most hotels on Hanoi will store your luggage for you for free even if you are not returning for a stay after your Sapa trip.

The journey starts at about 9-10pm and will drop you at about 5am to Lao Cai ...my suggestion is to buy some bread for the journey to Sapa as you possibly hungry ...at 5am it's crazy to try to book one of the mini vans ( you will see tons of them shouting at you as you alight with your luggage)

From there , most of the hotels you book will provide the transfers thru beautiful winding roads and it takes about an hour before you reach downtown Sapa where most hotels are

Two years, five years. China is taking a financial risk to to design and construct this railway.

The Junta borrowed 80% of the cost from the Chinese. If the Junta loses power and is replaced by a government that does not consider the Junta as a legitimate government, any ot the Junta's foreign treaties and financial transactions might be legally nullified by the new government as actions in violation of the 2007 Constitution, irrespective of any new constitution contrived by the Junta. The State would then have a sovereign right to nationalize ownership of the railway and cancel its loan obligations to China. The railway becomes the Thai wai.

You are assuming the Chinese would forget .... ? Irregardless of the mix of the Thai government in the future, it would be foolish to renege on a potential deal with one of the biggest giants in Asia

The other way ....if it goes really sour is for China to put money into Cambodia and Myanmar to spite the Thais and that according to the history books would be a bitter pill for Thailand if somehow the other 2 neighbors become more successful

Well technically they really already have proper 4G & 3G which is superior to True or AIS but good luck getting the Thais to believe that

A 734 kilometre long dual track rail line running from Nong Khai province to Rayong, built concurrently with a second 133 kilometre long route from Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok, enabling speeds up to 180 kph (up to 250 kph in the future) will be planned, designed and constructed in two years?

Let's contrast that with some of the other sections of the mega KunmingSingapore Railway spearheaded by China:

• The KunmingYuxi Railway or Kunyu Railway is a single-track railroad in Yunnan Province of Southwest China. The line runs 55.5 km (34 mi) from Kunming to Yuxi and was built from 1989 to 1993. Bridges and tunnels account for 22% of the total length of the line.
• The YuxiMohan Railway or Yumo Railway is a double track electrified line, 487.7 km (303 mi) in length running from Yuxi in central Yunnan to Mohan, a town in Mengla County on the border with Laos in the Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Prefecture of southern Yunnan. The line will be capable of accommodating trains traveling at speeds of up to 200 km/h (124 mph), and was reported to take five years to build.
• The YuxiMengzi Railway or Yumeng Railway, is a railroad in Yunnan Province of Southwest China. The line runs 141 km (88 mi) from Yuxi in central Yunnan to Mengzi City in southern Yunnan. Construction began on December 15, 2005, and the line opened to commercial service on February 23, 2013.
• The MengziHekou Railway or Menghe Railway is a railroad in Yunnan Province of Southwest China. The line runs 140 km (87 mi) from Mengzi City in southern Yunnan to the Hekou Yao Autonomous County on the border with Vietnam. Construction began in December 2008 and the line entered operation in December 2014.

Edit: Apparently they were thinking more realistically when they first announced this plan...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747329-ncpo-approves-us34-billion-rail-line-project-plan/

Using stats for Yunnan is pretty pointless. It is incredibly mountainous.

Most of these lines are running on pretty flat land, but still 2 years is impossible.

I agree with you, absolutely pointless and why miss out the Beijing to Shanghai High Speed Rail 1,318kms long and only took 2 years to complete (track laying only took 4 months). It was opened officially a year later. However they have to keep SRT away from this project completely, which I understand they will do. Hopewell project was a complete shambles thanks to the SRT's and delay tactics especially with regards to handing over the land and right of way.

I am just thinking aloud here as I was privy to the planning of the line in the south

2 years in the Chinese books is not impossible to complete as the Beijing - Shanghai line was longer and completed on time

However in comparing that in China vs the current climate in Thailand ...I would think the current "vibe" against the Chinese tourists invasion would make land clearance the biggest hurdle for this project and not just this line

The Chinese would need Prayut to be completely firm which may explain why the next government or voting will not be in power till 2016.

Lots of hurdles along the way for this to be completed and I think the political climate and Thais affinity to land will make it harder as compared to a similar project in China where everything is basically state owned.

Impossible. It takes over 2 years just to build a simple road underpass here in Chiang Mai.

I suppose you are talking about the one in Maerim

The number of breaks and holidays and stop work they had ...wow !

I will be surprised if they finish that in 3 years time making it a grand 5 !

It's all about money, ......and the environment gets kicked in the butt, regardless of the few pretty words spoken in favor of environmentalism.

If you live in CR...start by persuading them to stop burning ..that crap smoke comes back to CM ...thanks

This way it's not just pretty words as everyone is playing our part

Has anyone seen the new development Bridge in PP

It seems to hold a good investment deal being the first point block 45 storey building there