mijan24

The history of human rights is also a history against human wrongs. But in a country such as Thailand that refuses to teach and learn from their own real history, both rights and wrongs remain relative, personal and expedient.

Thailand is a fairly young country, with a historical consciousness of barely a few hundred years. The earliest references to 'siam' and 'siamese' people refer to wandering tribes and the nascent city states carved out of a crumbling Khmer empire. (This is different to the even younger USA as it was fought over and built by Europeans who brought with them their own heritage.) This isn't the place for a long history of Thailand, but it strikes me that the obvious policy of promoting ignorance and nationalism is seriously backfiring in an age of easy access to information. Thailand is not a unitary state, but rather than promote policies of inclusion, they've gone and asserted those Thai Cultural Mandates that promote repression of people's real cultural histories.

"At the r in the area of Chiang Klangoot of all our problems is Thais' inability to standardise fundamental values, including those concerning human rights."

Perhaps time to scrap those cultural mandates born of the fascist era and write a new set. Perhaps then the peoples of Thailand can sort out their legal frameworks to reflect these new cultural values. We're back, as always, to education.

Iteresting but to say Thailand is "a fairly young country" is one way of introducing a bias to colour future debate -Homo Sapiens established themselves in Thailand 40000 years ago, 4000 years ago people in the area area of Chiang Klang, near Udon Thani started to grow rice.

Around 2500 BC, the bronze age began at this period ceramic tripods were also being manufactured Surathani, Nakhon Sri Tammarat, Trang and Krabi.

An important network of farming communities flourished in Pattani, and Yala in the South,

and around Khon Kaen in the Nort East.

The Thais before occupying Siam lived in the provinces of Sichuan and Yunnan under the influence of the Chinese - it was in fact the Chinese who called them THAIS (meaning glorious or great ) and so the story goes on and of course we know they were defeated in 78 BC and their states were made part of the western provinces of China which caused many Thais to emigrate southwards - Sichuan - Burma and Thailand followed. So with this in mind how can you say "time to scrap cultural mandates" that in itself is a facist statement/thought.

May respectfully add data to your post?

The Chinese, who came to what is now Thailand, did so as a result of Mongols invading the (nowadays) Sichuan province. They settled around the area where Nan is. When after the Mongol invasion subsided and eventually their hegemony disappeared, the Chinese coming into the area known today as Thailand (up until 1939 Siam) referred to Thais not as "glorious" but as people "difficult to control or unruly". The word Thai in ancient Mandarin and Sichuan dialect has been interpreted to benefit the meaning of today's Thailand.

Pibun was the one responsible for:

1- Changing the name of Siam to Thailand

2- Cult of personality. Pibun's image was ubiquitous throughout the entire country.

3- Changing the way Siamese people dressed for hundreds of years to conform to Western standards and even nixing chopsticks in favor of spoon and fork.

4- Issuing the 12 Mandates : the onset of Xenophobia and Merit Making as national traits.

5- Military rule as the "right way" of government.

6- Allowing the Japanese army to occupy Thailand.

7- Declaration of war to UK and USA.

8- Systemic rewriting of history to indoctrinate the "masses.

Rhetorical question: Was there a reaction from the population against those decreed changes???

Enjoyed your post.

The kingdom of Ngai-Lo refused to pay tribute to China in 78 BC - The Thais were indeed defeated and there states were made part of the western provinces of China, exasperated by the tyranny of the Chinese they moved to the powerful kingdom of Nan- Chao which stretched from Burma to Vietnam.

The Mongols arrived in force in in 1253 and some Thai decendants still live in Yunnan to this day.

Of course I digress from the original post and many Thais are not made aware of their history and I have no doubt by the comments you read on TV many foreigners know little of Thailand and show no interest in knowing nor understanding the roots many of these people have.

We can only hope some good comes out of the current shambles and they(the Thai people) are not naieve or greedy enough to follow the western ways as proported to be the solution by many TV posters.

The history of human rights is also a history against human wrongs. But in a country such as Thailand that refuses to teach and learn from their own real history, both rights and wrongs remain relative, personal and expedient.

Thailand is a fairly young country, with a historical consciousness of barely a few hundred years. The earliest references to 'siam' and 'siamese' people refer to wandering tribes and the nascent city states carved out of a crumbling Khmer empire. (This is different to the even younger USA as it was fought over and built by Europeans who brought with them their own heritage.) This isn't the place for a long history of Thailand, but it strikes me that the obvious policy of promoting ignorance and nationalism is seriously backfiring in an age of easy access to information. Thailand is not a unitary state, but rather than promote policies of inclusion, they've gone and asserted those Thai Cultural Mandates that promote repression of people's real cultural histories.

"At the r in the area of Chiang Klangoot of all our problems is Thais' inability to standardise fundamental values, including those concerning human rights."

Perhaps time to scrap those cultural mandates born of the fascist era and write a new set. Perhaps then the peoples of Thailand can sort out their legal frameworks to reflect these new cultural values. We're back, as always, to education.

Iteresting but to say Thailand is "a fairly young country" is one way of introducing a bias to colour future debate -Homo Sapiens established themselves in Thailand 40000 years ago, 4000 years ago people in the area area of Chiang Klang, near Udon Thani started to grow rice.

Around 2500 BC, the bronze age began at this period ceramic tripods were also being manufactured Surathani, Nakhon Sri Tammarat, Trang and Krabi.

An important network of farming communities flourished in Pattani, and Yala in the South,

and around Khon Kaen in the Nort East.

The Thais before occupying Siam lived in the provinces of Sichuan and Yunnan under the influence of the Chinese - it was in fact the Chinese who called them THAIS (meaning glorious or great ) and so the story goes on and of course we know they were defeated in 78 BC and their states were made part of the western provinces of China which caused many Thais to emigrate southwards - Sichuan - Burma and Thailand followed. So with this in mind how can you say "time to scrap cultural mandates" that in itself is a facist statement/thought.

What a surprise Jatuporn and Surapong have come up with identical suggestions of a referendum. Oh the irony of it. There was never any such thought until PTP found their backs tight to the wall, but now, they are all for it. There is a strong whiff of desperation in the air......anything to prevent an appointed/temporary/neautral PM being put in place.

The biggest problems here being the time factor in organising a referendum, arguing over the wording and having something concrete in the way of reform proposals.....these problems bedevil all parties, not just the PTP/UDD side.....but Scamper has covered this while I was typing!

Skype must be going into meltdown as the afternoon meeting approaches.

On the plus side, it shows that people are beginning to think.....It would be a very foolhardy person who attended the meeting empty-handed....or even failed to attend.

An interesting post especially your last paagraph - only 3 or 4 posts early this from the Acting PM.

The OP details what martial law entails very well.

I would like to see more TV posts discussing the legal contortions involved declaring this particular state of martial law

How did they do it, and on who's authority, legally?

What is the legal framework used to get a state of martial law declared?

Obviously, the situation in Thailand is quite unique. Most developed countries would have the government inform the military that martial law has been declared and instruct them to carry out their duties as required by law. What's the deal here?

Isn't this really a coup? (If it walks like a duck?)

How did they do it, and on who's authority, legally? It says they need a Royal Decree to end Martial Law so this should tell where the authority came from.

Legal framework - what planet are you from - We are talking Martial Law - Cast your mind back to the Phillipines - the legal framework is the Authority to take back control for the good of the country.

Now you say Thailand is a developed country - if this is correct why do they still receive AID ?? in reality a 2nd class 2nd world country at best teeting on the brink of returning to a 3rd world country if things continue as they are .

http://soundcloud.co...red-in-thailand

Please listen this should answer all or at least most of your questions.

http://soundcloud.co...red-in-thailand

The OP details what martial law entails very well.

I would like to see more TV posts discussing the legal contortions involved declaring this particular state of martial law

How did they do it, and on who's authority, legally?

What is the legal framework used to get a state of martial law declared?

Obviously, the situation in Thailand is quite unique. Most developed countries would have the government inform the military that martial law has been declared and instruct them to carry out their duties as required by law. What's the deal here?

Isn't this really a coup? (If it walks like a duck?)

How did they do it, and on who's authority, legally? It says they need a Royal Decree to end Martial Law so this should tell where the authority came from.

Legal framework - what planet are you from - We are talking Martial Law - Cast your mind back to the Phillipines - the legal framework is the Authority to take back control for the good of the country.

Now you say Thailand is a developed country - if this is correct why do they still receive AID ?? in reality a 2nd class 2nd world country at best teeting on the brink of returning to a 3rd world country if things continue as they are .

Accidents caused by under-maintained buses will entail a fine of 5,000 baht, instead of the earlier rate of 3,000 baht. The new rates have already taken effect

Why for the life of me and fellow commuters - if a bus government or private is under maintained Why not simply ground it until repaired and expand this policy to all buses (tour) if you are serious about fixing the problem.

Reduce by 50% is not the answer Zero tolerance should be the target - oh well TiT here one day gone the next " bus travellers I am referring to".

Which Turkey's embassy, again?

Take your pick although they did mention China - no wonder as they described the people as Turkic looking but undocumented.

Raised the thought what is Turkic looking? The reult from Google says they could be from quite a few places:

The Turkic peoples are a collection of ethnic groups that live in northern, eastern, central, and western Asia, northwestern China, and parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.[10] They share, to varying degrees, certain cultural traits and historical backgrounds. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of peoples including existing societies such as the Turkish people, Azerbaijanis, Chuvashes, Kazakhs, Tatars, Kyrgyz, Turkmens, Uyghurs, Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Qashqai, Gagauz, Yakuts, Crimean Karaites, Krymchaks, Karakalpaks, Karachays, Balkars, Nogais and as well as past civilizations such as Göktürks, Kumans, Kipchaks, Avars, Bulgars, Turgeshes, Khazars, Seljuk Turks, Ottoman Turks, Mamluks, Timurids, Khiljis, and possibly Karasuk culture, Huns and the Xiongnu.

Geez certainly opens ones eyes with articles such as this doesn't it.

Once again a waste of time and effort - the reporter must be assessed on the amount of copy he/she provides to the editor - the storyline repeated itself several times adding or deleting as needed to give it more "air" (sic) time - the crux or meat of the story was contained in the following excerpt:

Despite the strict measures, there is no certainty they could suppress gambling, because if any district office or province is too strict, villagers could rally to oust the officials responsible for the measures.

And more and more posts where people are seeking advice after 10 + years of overstay....

Admins, please "create" such a forum, as it's already a topic almost every day/hour.

I's suggest to create some different sorts of them

1. Those who'd just forgotten to renew their visas for more than 20 years.

2. Those who didn't know that they need a visa to stay here.

3. "Teachers" working for agencies, who were told that they wouldn't need such a thing.

4. Those guys who fell in love with a hooker and never found their way back, where they came from.

5. Those foreigners who like to blackmail others for not having a work permit, but are on a long long overstay

6. Those foreigners on ED visas, who all in a sudden decided to start to learn Thai after 23 years.

7.Those foreigners who bought houses, cars, buffaloes, motorbikes and other stuff for their spouse, but had no more money to do visa runs.

8. Those foreigners who "play" deaf and blind and ask for some money for their organization.

9. Those foreigners who can't read, nor understand any rules that are made.

10. Those TVF members who're politely asking how to leave the country by paying 20 K,without prison time, just to come back on a new passport.

Great list don't need a forum you have given Immigration their bucket list they will hopefully work on eliminating these problem children ASAP.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Hopefully this crackdown will be like many others, short lived. A lot of people legitimately working, studying, living, or touring here, do border runs occasionally between visas. They should be able to differentiate between someone doing it a few times, and someone doing it for 5 years.

I am sorry but your post makes no sense - if one is legitimately working, studying, living or touring then you will have the correct vise and you will also ensure it is renewed at the correct time. If there is a delay with your visa and you are genuine IMMIGRATION will grant you a temporary.

Do not post claptrap like this some unsuspecting person might believe it - where do I tick the unlike button forDP25 and as a previous legitimate said "About Time".

Not my fault you have problems with reading comprehension. The important part in that comment, is do border runs occasionally between visas. Large numbers of people who normally have legitimate long term visas and work permits, sometimes do border runs for a couple months while waiting for paperwork to get a new visa. Large numbers of legitimate tourists do them as well. People change jobs, they move, they change schools, etc and the new paperwork for these things in Thailand is not always quick to get. Their work permit expires, hence their visa expires the same day, and then they wait for paperwork for their new job, and do a couple border runs while waiting. It is a huge hassle now under these new regulations since they will have to leave the country for a few days to get a tourist visa, and then leave again when their paperwork comes in. When instead they could just target people living LONG TERM (ie every month for 6 months or something), instead of tourists or those just doing it a couple times because their new job is slow giving them the correct paperwork.

DP25 no problems with comprehension but please apply the 6 P's Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance -

I initially came to Thailand in 1982 to teach at the Royal Thai Military Technical Training School located in Soi 30 Bangkhen but freely admit I did not move here permanently until 2003/4

I commuted to Nong Khai 4 times a year even though I was on a Cat O Multi Entry Non Immg visa I only mention this to highlight I have never in all this time personally experieced the scenarios you mention - I am sure they can be avoided with an ounce of forethought.

There will be genuine cases but Immigration are not "Water Buffaloes" and will give you a fair go if you are up front - but in my opinion the scammers are in the majority and are now crying foul.

I had a triple entry tourist visa issued in the UK because i was just coming over for a few months as i expected to back to the UK within that time for work, the work has not yet started, there fore i am having to 'Milk' the system until my job starts.

Now in that period of time i have bought a house and spent over 400,000 baht here in Thailand, does that sound to you like milking the system or Thailand milking me of my hard earned cash?

Enough said!

Have you heard of the the 6 P's

Please tell the complete story "you bought a house" 400,000 is not even a drop in the ocean under 10,00 pounds - with that money why didn't you simply fly out get another visa at a cost of about 100 pounds - come on be up front you were going to "milk the system" until the Thais (who are not all water buffaloes) changed/updated/enforced the rules like they should.

This is big news that will affect a lot of people.

Kudos to Thai visa for getting the info out there.

I wouldn't fancy being a border runner right now - that said, going in and out of Thailand every 30 days means you aren't a tourist anyway and are probably milking the system.

Immigration seem to be on one at the moment!

I know many people who rely on the border runs; however, I don't believe any of them were attempting to milk the system. They were unaware what they were doing was illegal. It seems odd that there is such an industry set up to support this practice andwhich advertise their services openly if, in fact, it was against the law.

This crackdown is actually advantageous to tourists on extended stays since it is much cheaper to apply for and receive a Visa than to make the monthly border runs.

Do you live in fantasy land? what you have said borders on the ludicrous go tell it to the Oxen who predict a good season ahead.

Hopefully this crackdown will be like many others, short lived. A lot of people legitimately working, studying, living, or touring here, do border runs occasionally between visas. They should be able to differentiate between someone doing it a few times, and someone doing it for 5 years.

I am sorry but your post makes no sense - if one is legitimately working, studying, living or touring then you will have the correct vise and you will also ensure it is renewed at the correct time. If there is a delay with your visa and you are genuine IMMIGRATION will grant you a temporary.

Do not post claptrap like this some unsuspecting person might believe it - where do I tick the unlike button forDP25 and as a previous legitimate said "About Time".

I read the above report several times and can only wonder is it porr reporting or poor issuances oPlus, this tambon is close to the Phayao active fault.f information or both - for eg.

From the article:

1. Plus, this tambon is close to the Phayao active fault.

2. Phayao fault dormant

3. At 3am yesterday, a 4-magnitude aftershock was felt in the area, though he said his team did not detect any activity in the Phayao fault.

Now we have a statement from an expert:(which makes the definition of "an expert is simply a drip under pressure " ring true)

.Assoc Prof Penneung Warnit-chai, an earthquake expert at the Asian Institute of Technology, who was also part of the inspection team, said the damage incurred was low when compared with similar earthquakes in other countries. He added that the buildings that crumbled were built using soft materials.

However, he voiced concern about what might happen in Bangkok if there are any strong earthquakes nearby.

According to a study, he said about 10 of 1,400 buildings that are 20 to 30 storeys high could be at risk of collapsing in the capital.

Honestly "soft materials rather than poor construction with inferior materials" - Bangkok nearby are we talking 20, 30, Kms or 120, 130 Kms - an absolute oxygen bandit. Finshed off by 10 out of 1400 buildings - I would love to read the study and see who conducted it.

All in all typical clap trap they could not even identify the epi center and when they did was it by science or simple maths which said "<deleted>" there are 20+ houses damaged here not like the village X Kms away where there was only 12 This must be it Somchai well done my son.

Very interesting developments - must have bee the Maths expert who prepared these figures - oh well what is a billion or two,

BANGKOK: -- The Pheu Thai party Thursday slammed the National Audit Office for demanding about 3,800 million baht in compensation to cover the expenditure for the aborted February 2 election.

Party spokesman Prompong Nopparit said that the National Audit Office had made an accusation against a wrong party. He explained that the government did not block or tried to sabotage the election but the real culprits were Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary-general of the People’s Democratic Reform Committee, and nine for Democrat MPs.

Prompong suggested the National Audit Office to sue Suthep and his gang to demand compensation for the failed election which costs the state 3.8 billion baht for preparations.

How many millions make a billion again??? must join this bank ASAP.

Why am I not surprised ... I actually know of someone who gets his extension based on retirement (money in the bank) extended each year for about 20,000Baht ... he doesn't have the 800,000 Baht ... says it cheaper than a flight back to the UK! I don't think that I will see much change in this area in the not-too immediate future!!!!!!!!!!

this is a common practice + there is a company that openly advertises Retirement Visas guaranteed" even if you have not reached 50 and do not meet the baht requirements - no problems they have paid their tea money so no chance of anyone being involved in something underhand.

"This is unacceptable behaviour and it shows that all politicians are alike, since they value themselves more than their country.

Yes but why let them get away with it? - Start arresting them place them on work details (sweeping the streets) they are supposed to represent the people - thuggery is a violation of my rights so have the law intervene and clean out these crooks and take the Pattaya Russian mafia with them - Crime & Corruption is rampant in Thailand and we have labourers asking for a payrise whilst those in charge dig their snouts further into the "public purse"

Thai workers certainly deserve a better deal but 1st thing is to establish their own demands not immitate the demands of workers in the west.

The labourers called on the government to lower the cost of living, accept International Labour Organisation Conventions 87 and 98 on freedom of assembly and collective bargaining, and raise their wages.
they want the government to lower the cost of living then they want to raise wages ??

Another request was for childcare at work sites. This is Thailand where the extended family is the way of life ??

Workers from such provinces as Phuket, Udon Thani and Buri Rum urged the government to control consumer-product prices, revise daily pay, bring down living costs, and establish a fund for laid-off workers

How can you compare the cost of living in Phuket (tourist town) with Udon Thani, Burriram (farming areas) once again revise daily pay -when will they understand if wages go up so does the cost of living (money does not grow on trees)- a fund for laid-off workers (they ask for more pay to work now they ask for a fund if they don't work).

The Thai workforce does not understand " A fair days work for a Fair days pay they only consider the latter - as I have said in other posts ASEAN is coming and workers from neighboring countries where the dail rate is only ฿100 per day (perhaps) will flock here to snap up the ฿300 on offer and still remit 2/3 back home.

Yes you can see this everywhere - what can you see you ask - Thai people trying to live the good life with no means to support it.

I for one wish them a good life but firstly learn about life and how to aquire it - cerainly not by buying everything that is advertised such as IPods,skin whitening creams,new cars,new motorbikes etc etc - learn to do without, learn to budget, learn to enjoy the simple things in life - now the hard one learn to WORK otherwise come 2015 things will only get worse - how come you ask? - ASEAN means more people available to WORK and live yet remit money back home this should tell you something - if it doesn't then enjoy wallowing in your self made debt.

In todays news a message for the Thai labour force:

BANGKOK: -- WHILE THAI WORKERS are expected to voice grievances over low pay against the rising cost of living today, many migrant workers continue struggling to make ends meet with little complaint. For these workers from Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos, Thailand is a still a good place to work.

ASEAN labour force is sending Thai workers a message - will they listen?? my opinion - NO.

would anyone be scared of a thai special forces person ?

5555

pussys .

better to have a contingent of angry ladyboys to arrest them ,thats mean

Silly statement by a silly boy.

We can comment as much as we like but until he is listed with "Interpol" my understanding is he can go where he likes-otherwise why not send a Thai Seals"team to confiscate him and whisk him back to Thailand to face the consequences?

A pipe dream I know but maybe one day who knows - and you must ask is he ("T") any worse than the political criminals from every other country around the world (I was going to put region but I think The World is more correct)