Bryan in Isaan

hi5 doesn't have a group search but Google will find them for you. You could try something like +hi5 +groups +thai, for example, lots of hits.

The village Pho Chai is on the route Roi Et - Phonthong, right?

syntoh

I sense a chance to revive an old but never resolved thread about another Western resident further along this route towards Phon Thong. Before reaching the town, there is a park with animals and exotic plants a couple of kilometers left off the main road run by a farang named David. I know this from a local questioned one day when I tried to visit and found the park gate locked. Has anybody ever been there? Is it worth a visit?

You mean Dave the Swiss guy from Phon Thong? He's a good chap and does have a few odd pets and animals.

What I liked is how he answered the question about Democrats and PAD

1. We have same goals - fight injustice

2. We have different objectives, ie. we don't support appointed MPs under new politics proposal

3. We don't approve of their methods, like taking over government house and airports.

Those were the good answers. Some of the other things he said probably won't play too well either in the foreign media or upcountry.

He said that the removal of the previous government had nothing to do with the PAD, it was a court decision. Technically correct - works for lawyers but not convincing for people who are not already Democrats or their supporters.

When asked about the occupation of the govt house and airports he said he "expressed his opposition very clearly". I don't recall reading anything about that. It seems like a statement like that from him would have made the news.

He said there would be "investigations" of the PAD leaders, including the Democrat MP. They would be "held responsible" and could not use "MP immunity". We will see how far that goes.

Having said that, I do hope that he can somehow bring about reconcilliation with his political opponents. It will be an uphill battle and require hard work.

Abhisit has a short time to either survive or fail politically, in a democratic sense - that is to win or lose the favor of the voters. And don't say it - I understand that the party is elected, not the PM. What is at stake now is whether or not he stands up to the PAD. If he does, he might even be able to win votes in the NE and N. However, if it appears that he is submitting to the PAD, he is finished. He will never be able to lead the Democrats to an electoral victory. Many are saying to give him a chance. That is his chance.

......

The worst thing for any group is for the other side to see is dissatisfaction among the ranks. PAD have been over confident for a pretty long time knowing that the cheques that they have been receiving cannot ever bounce. With that in mind being filmed means nothing to them, you either serve a cause or you are an enemy. One must understand that even the women, children and those that looked well past it may have come for a look see but no chance would they be able to leave. They took the Devils silver and now they are stained and knowing that they could not leave. Those guards were not there to keep people out they were there to keep people in.

.............

I have been hearing that there were people from the villages hired to help with the PAD protests, then got stiffed out of their pay and were not allowed to leave. One guy from my town was sick and wanted to go home but could not.

I hope the guy in this story lives to talk about what happened.

ASTV: British Embassy Revokes Thaksin's Visa

PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul announces on PAD stage that the U.K. embassy has revoked the visas of both Thaksin and Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra.

The PAD leader cited a Manager newspaper's report that the embassy has revoked both fugitives' visas. The order reportedly takes effect today.

TOC / 2008-11-08

Wouldn't Sondhi be embarrassed if this turned out to be a hoax?

Naaaaah.

...............

I suspect most people attend political rallies because they want to be there.

Actually everyone I know stays there because they want to be or do you think people take the tear gas for 500 Baht?

There is no solid evidence that anyone at PAD get paid, just some known PAD hater have to my surprise a lot friends who attends the PAD for 500 Baht (hidden under the Banana leaf). But the PAD haters have to my surprise no friends who joined the pro government group for money.

I agree that there are not many people who would knowingly face tear gas for 500Baht. Neither would Salang's policemen fight the army or lie down in front of tanks for money.

The evidence I speak of is hearsay, not any more or less credible than some newspaper articles. I have no reason to doubt stories that people from my town were paid to attend PAD rallies. You say that you don't know anyone who was paid to attend and I believe you too.

It looks to me - just my opinion, Jdinasia - that both pro and anti government people are passionate in their viewpoints and aren't in it for the money. It would be much simpler if the money could be shut off and everyone would just go home.

Bryan in Issan

"The fact is ....."

that everything following that statement is opinion.

I attempted to summarize everything I have read about the topic and interpret it objectively. OK, it's an opinion. Spank me. I will choose my words more carefully next time.

Am I wrong? Are other posts fact, rather than opinion? OK JDinasia, come out with it - what is the correct interpretation?

PAD supporters are not paid....telling these lies again and again does not make it true

The going rate is 400+ baht per day as I have been told by part time PAD-protesters.

which is a blank lie as many time proofed.

We know at least 100 PAD people from poor to rich, 24/7 there are just sometimes, from North, South, East, Central and everyone want to know where to pick up the money. I guess they would even give you half if you can tell them where to pick it up, as they are there since month that is a huge amount.

etc......

This is off topic but it keeps coming up over and over again in every thread. As we can see from hundreds of posts, everyone knows someone who was paid to attend either an anti-government or a pro-government rally. Then that anecdotal evidence is used to try to discredit whichever side the poster disagrees with.

The fact is, payment happens but is probably not a deciding factor. In cases where there is greater expense, more money is exchanged, for example, where people have to travel. If Bangkok protesters travel to an up country rally, they need money from somewhere, either from a sponsor or from their own resources if they are financially well off. If upcountry people travel to Bangkok to protest, they need money for bus fare, food, transportation, lost wages, etc. In some cases, especially for poor people, attending a rally might be profitable - whichever group is paying them at the time.

I suspect most people attend political rallies because they want to be there.

Because of the nature of the charge it will be virtually impossible for DAAD leaders to defend themselves or for anyone to speak on their behalf. This could be another tool in the hands of the anti democratic elements.

PAD regain control in front of Parliament

BANGKOK: -- Protesters re-besieged Parliament and drove police out of the gate on the Phichai Road.

Protesters used batons to fight against police and drove them off.

Many of the protesters also inflated the tyres of police vehicles.

-- The Nation 2008-10-07

Sounds not good...the start of a civil war?!

No. A coup.

.........

Also can both of you please refrain from personal attacks. Just respect each others opinions. I respect your opinion on the situation, and I ask you to respect mine. Keeps it nicer for everyone.

Waerth

Nothing personal Waerth. I respect your opinion. This whole situation is frustrating to me. I envisioned the PAD taking over the Parliament building grounds and building within a few days if they were not stopped.

The present situation is a mess, whichever side one might sympathize with. Neither side will give up and it might get a lot worse before it gets better.

Bryan

Dear mister Somchai is showing his true face very fast. He asks for peace with one hand and with the other hand he commits violence. Shows what kind of a person he is.

Waerth

His missus wears the trousers in his government

Or an influential person in London (but don't know if it makes any difference).

Remember Thaksin spent years attempting to stack the Olice and Army Deck

with HIS friends.

The army list reshuffle just went into effect this week too.

Maybe the calculation is he controls them enough to move now.

I don't think PM.Somchai is in nearly as much control as some credit him with.

This sounds like another round of Thaksin's version of the end game.

Clear out desenting voices, then d the constitution tricks to regain power,

cancel the 2nd strings impending dissolution and retroactively forgive the 1st strings,

then neuter the courts a bit. Daddy war bucks can come home and run the shooting match.

Of course a conflagration in Bangkok will nicely back up his asylum claims too.

But he is shooting FAR beyond that only.

Huh???

The police acted, therefore Thaksin is running the police?

The army didn't stop the police so Thaksin must control the army?

I haven't read the news for a couple of days. I guess there has been a lot going on.

Condolances to the man who lost his leg. That was not meant to happen.

Dear mister Somchai is showing his true face very fast. He asks for peace with one hand and with the other hand he commits violence. Shows what kind of a person he is.

Waerth

What kind of person he is??? He was unblocking the parliament building.

The PAD should not have been blocking it. Tear gas is the only language they understand.

Am I missing something here?

Thai PM visits his new office in abandoned airport terminal

BANGKOK (AFP / 52 minutes ago) — Thai Premier Somchai Wongsawat inspected his new offices Friday at an abandoned airport terminal where he is moving the seat of government to avoid protesters trying to force him from power......

"Today I come to survey the site and I find that it's solid," Somchai told reporters, adding that he would work from the airport "until Government House returns to normal."......

What he never went tt the airport before??? hel_l even I KNOW it's solid.

Now I can say:

' I used to hang out at the Thai Prime Ministers offices."

He probably spent a lot of time at Swampypoom. He isn't used to airports being solid.

Interesting. We have never heard of any of those things in our province. We are still waiting for our 500 baht. I can't imagine our puyai ban threatening anyone.

I'm new to politics in Thailand, and it seems that majority of the posters here are sympathetic towards PAD.

What I don't understand is this: Isn't the current government a democratically elected government ? If it is so, what PAD is doing to overthrow a democratically elected government is itself undemocratic.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

No it wasn't that's the big problem. There was massive, for most farangs unbelievable, vote buying. As well the head of village were bought and told terrible stories what would happen if the Democrats win. So you see all the cities, where the people don't believe everything didn't vote PPP. But the villages without newspaper only vote for PPP.

PPP will get dissolved for that, but it will need another 6 month.

That is another ongoing argument on this forum. Whenever the villagers vote, protest or express an opinion, it is said that they are getting money from Thaksin. That is supposed to have been going on since his first landslide victory, back in 2001.

In reality, there is some vote buying in the villages but is it mostly small politicians running for local offices. TRT and PPP vote buying is not as widespread is many people are saying. If there are bribes, people might accept them and then vote for whomever they wanted to in the first place - secret ballot.

The Isaan and northern Thais have voted for TRT and PPP because they believed that their policies were favorable toward their regions. They expect to get benefits such as free health care, village funds, better road and schools, etc., which they would not get from other parties. True or not, that is the perception.

The TRT was dissolved and 111 of their members were banned by the EC and court system. The PPP emerged as allies of the TRT. If the EC is successful in dissolving the PPP, another similar party will emerge and win again. The PAD, besides working to overthrow elected governments is also leading an effort to discontinue the electoral system. So, Thairookie, in answer to your question, It seems to me that what the PAD is doing is undemocratic.

--Donning flame suit--

Quite clearly we are heading for something pretty nasty here as the elite/feudal backers of the PAD feel they are fighting for their privileged existance (the Feudals, not the PAD).

I think there will need to be a compromise between the Government and the Feudals/Elites (forget the PAD for a minute).

.........

To me, this is the right way forward - but it takes BOTH sides to agree to this. If they don't we're in for real trouble this time - no flowers to the soldiers this time I think.

Great post. I hope it happens soon. If the real powers are satisfied I think sondhi and the PAD will "declare victory" and go home.

Good morning everyone,

Quote from today's Bangkok Post article...

(BangkokPost.com) - Core leader of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Sondhi Limthongkul announced Saturday that he would ordain until he dies if peace and order are maintained in the country and that the group could remove the Samak Sundaravej administration.

My English isn't perfect. Does that mean that he would become a monk for the rest of his life, if the PAD manages to remove the Samak administration? Is that what is meant by ordain? Seems strange, I couldn't see someone as outspoken as Sondhi going into monkhood for the rest of his life. I must be reading this wrong?

I better have my morning coffee first and read it again ;-)

Guess who defines "peace and order". I would give him about 24 hours to defrock, just enough time to get a few photos.

Thai army disobeys PM's orders -- so what's new?

Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:05pm IST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - In July 2006, an 85-year-old Thai general dressed up in full military regalia to address a bunch of graduating young officers. It was no ordinary passing out parade.

The general was Prem Tinsulanonda, chief adviser to King Bhumibol Adulyadej, and his message was clear and aimed straight at elected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawtra.

"Soldiers are like horses and governments are jockeys but not owners. You belong to the nation and His Majesty the King," Prem, also a former army chief and prime minister, said.

His comments were prophetic -- two months later, the army removed Thaksin in the 18th coup in 74 years of on-off democracy.

......

Many have said that it was Prem who was primarily responsible for the coup in 2006, not Sondhi or some lower level generals. He might be the one calling the shots today. In western countries we are used to the president or head of secular government being commander in chief, but it is not so here.

I wonder if the non-resignation was Samak's idea or that of the big boss

It was Samak's idea, though there are probably 40 million Thais and countless others from free countries all over the world who are glad he made that choice.

I don't know much about him but I see that he is tough and thick skinned, exactly the kind of PM Thailand needs at this time, when democracy and majority rule is being threatened. A lesser man would have folded under so much pressure.

Nowhere near 40 million. The PPP earned only 14 mil votes (same as the Demos, more or less) in the 2007 parliamentary elections, and their popularity - along with Samak's - has taken a considerable dive since then.

now you are trying to put facts in the way !!

There might not be a one to one correspondence between number of PPP votes in 2007 and the number who don't want Samak to step down under pressure of the PAD. They are two entirely different situations. In 2007 an election. Now the PAD + an unspecified number of supporters is trying to overthrow that election. There is more at stake than whether or not Samak is popular.

As for the alleged "fact" that PPP popularity is less now, that is open to debate. Even Aphisit (spell?) admitted that he would not be able to beat Samak in an election at this time.

I wonder if the non-resignation was Samak's idea or that of the big boss

It was Samak's idea, though there are probably 40 million Thais and countless others from free countries all over the world who are glad he made that choice.

I don't know much about him but I see that he is tough and thick skinned, exactly the kind of PM Thailand needs at this time, when democracy and majority rule is being threatened. A lesser man would have folded under so much pressure.

Thai PM declares state of emergency in capital By MICHAEL CASEY, Associated Press Writer

1 hour, 11 minutes ago

Sondhi Limthongkul, the senior protest leader, said he liked the idea of shutting down public services even (though) it might anger and inconvenience many Thais.

Nice guy!

"I think it's one way of putting pressure on the government," Sondhi told reporters. "At the end of the day, they will see whether it's me who is the problem or Mr. Samak. All we want is Mr. Samak to go. When Samak goes, we stop."

Bulls**t. sondhi won't go until Thailand has the form of government that he wants. From his own words, that does not include an electoral system.

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....

....

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

But that word DIDN'T come. After that meeting, Prime Minister Samak was even more resolute about staying but committed to use restraint in dealing with the pad. Something to consider.

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

....

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

According to posts on Prachatai.com it was a pad protester who killed a Government supporter.