Bryan in Isaan

We don't fit the stereotype, but any time we go out in public she can still hear the muttering by the Thais. They tell each other that she is not attractive, but is still a prostitute.

So, what you are telling us is that when you go out, Thai people talk amongst themselves that your wife is unattractive and a prostitute.

And she or you say nothing, yeah right........

Yeah right. My wife usually tells me some time after the fact. She probably doesn't think it would be wise to stop and fight with everyone. As I said, they are muttering, and even my wife probably can't hear every word and call them to account. As in many situations here, it is probably good that I can't understand Thai. I wouldn't have that much restraint.

This will be the cleanest election in the history of Thailand.

With millions of people watching for any evidence of fraud, no one would dare try anything.

Have you seen the press for the last 3 months? Seen allegations of vote buying (directly .. not just the populist indirect vote-buying of only one side!)

Have you even been here? Of course silliness will happen today ... just hopefully it will be peaceful and less direct than it has been in the past!

The allegations are a JOKE! And they keyword here is "allegations".

According to the CONSPIRACY THEORISTS, there are supposedly 19 MILLION people who were bought off to vote for Thaksin. Gimme a break! TRT hardly needed that many votes to win. There is a huge and very powerful contingent of people trying to oust Thaksin, YET they have not been able to find a SINGLE piece of convincing evidence. EITHER they are extremely INEPT, OR these allegations are LIES.

Conspiracies, allegations, some mudslinging and yes - silliness (see other thread on disappearing ink). Where is Sherlock Holmes when we need him?

I agree with JDAsia's point that hopefully it will continue to be peaceful. I commend the people of Thailand for avoiding serious violence through all the events and passion of the past couple of months.

All the time mate, and then when they get to the top they stop again and discuss which way to go.

Maybe they're tired. Some of those BTS escalators are quite long.

BTW - This is a fun thread. Sort of a relief, with all the serious stuff going on these days.

It's difficult to avoid the stereotyping by the Thai's. In most relationships here in Thailand, the woman is young and attractive, wears lots of gold and doesn't speak much English/German or whatever language her partner speaks. The man is ... ummm ... not quite as young and attractive. The woman is assumed to be a prostitute. My wife is actually a couple of years older than me, we both work on our farm and usually wear old clothing. She came to America on a scholarship and worked there for many years and speaks perfect English. We don't fit the stereotype, but any time we go out in public she can still hear the muttering by the Thais. They tell each other that she is not attractive, but is still a prostitute. When she talks to me in perfect, smooth English they are stunned, and sometimes trip all over themselves trying to be nice. She has even had hotel managers come out and apologize for being rude. So, there is some acceptability by the Thais if they don't see her as a prostitute, but even then, we only gain approval if we are wearing nice clothing.

I would agree with most of the previous posts that the Thais' opinion does not matter if reputation is not important, for example, if one is only here on vacation. However, some people here want to start businesses or do other activities that require good reputation. It is not pleasant to be in that position here.

A slightly different editorial... also from today's Nation:

Voters have the chance to write off dictatorship today

The brute force hissing menace towards the people inside the Nation Multimedia Group offices on Thursday showed again that desperate politicians fearful of losing power could resort to senseless violence if necessary.

The same savagery was

<clipped for brevity>

The South is mainly pro-Democrat while Chiang Mai and some northern provinces want Thaksin with his generous style of pork-barrel politics to continue his saviour's role with freebies and populist plans to help the poor.

We go to the polls today and there aren't other choices, only candidates from Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai Party and a few also-ran parties.

And how did that happen????

There is a widespread feeling that most urban voters might just opt for the "No vote" box to express their disapproval of the entire polling process.

That's why we must make a wise choice to break this dictatorship and remake our nation.

Lots of hot air. I hope the author feels better, getting that off of his chest.

Seriously though, I wouldn't vote Democrat, but I wish they would have showed up for today's election.

Acc. to the Nation there are rumours he fled the country to escape lese majeste charges. Fellow PAD leaders deny them and he is scheduled to return tomorrow evening.

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30000660

He wasn't interiviewed for Kon Chad Luek - they inaccurately reported his rally speech.

Still seems strange to me, making the quick China trip, but that's his business. Are you saying Sondhi didn't make the comments, but Kon Chad Luek erroneously reported that he did? One of the leaders of the newspaper group resigned, supposedly taking responsibility for some error. I searched in vain for firsthand accounts of Sondhi's comments in question. It was at a rally speech, not an interview? It has been very challenging for me to get source information, not being very good at reading Thai.

link: http://www.thairath.co.th/thairath1/2548/b...ws.php?id=25867

(if you can read Thai)

And now, according to a couple of Thai language newspapers and television news, Sondhi has gone to China. This seems odd to me. Is this related to the interview in the Komchadluek.net newspaper in which he made the rash comment about the King? Or, is he just going out for some R&R? Maybe there is some restructuring going on within the PAD.

I don't have any idea. Anyone have any other info?

I hope he at least voted before he left. Maybe he's sending in an absentee ballot for this election.

Britmaveric post#5

Mr T - hmmmmm wish he was booted out via an electoral process. Smart businessmen who's self serving, but he has done alot for the poor considering in the past this wasnt a concern for the usual suspects.

Concise comment. I agree, except I tend to lean toward supporting Thaksin. It looks like there has been tangible, long term good done here in the Isaan. The Isaan people are so far behind in education, economy and even health that it would take a long painstaking process to improve their lot. I think the PM has taken some positive steps toward that end. I am still learning though. Is it good that every house in the village now has a cell phone? I think so. Would it have been better if there would have been a landline? Probably - but that's because I use the internet. Cell phones are more handy if you are out in the rice field. Short sighted, self serving policies? I am still learning.

Since it is the responsibility of the Thai citizens to make these decisions, I wish that there had been a normal election with all parties participating. The opposition is now campaigning for people to choose "no vote". That seems rather unproductive. IMHO the voters should have had the opportunity to vote for Democrat, Chart Thai, etc.... Even if they could not win they might have come in as larger minority parties.

Leftcross post#9

i, like the vast majority of thais, support thaksin.

i wasn't all that keen before but after weeks and weeks of seeing a small unrepresentative mob trying to oust the democratically elected PM i've started to take his side.

the sondhi lot lost all credibility when they refused to take part in the april 2 election.

it's a good things thais are so calm or the people who voted thaksin in would have confronted the anti mob by now. they must be getting very annoyed that these people are trying to force out the man they voted for.

There has been a lot of comment on this post. Many comments using the old argument "The Thaksin supporters might be the majority, but they're uneducated - and furthermore you must be uneducated yourself if you think that way, etc..." A majority is still a majority. From living in the Isaan I see that this is not the intellectual capital of the world, but their vote still ought to count. From watching the PAD and the opposition, they don't look to me like rocket scientists either.

Of course Sondhi and Chamlang were never planning to stand for election, but it looks to me like there is a strong association between the PAD and the opposition parties. We should all keep their names and functions straight, but to generalize the two groups in their ideology is not that far off.

Witnesses: TRT paid us to stand

PM's party implicated in electoral fraud case

Four witnesses in a case of alleged electoral fraud yesterday confirmed to the Election Commission (EC) that Thai Rak Thai party executives had paid them to contest the April 2 general election. Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban accompanied the four witnesses to the Region 8 Police Bureau in Surat Thani, where they were questioned by the EC's investigation team headed by Pol Lt-Col Suvicha Bunmee. ...

(see post #329)

...and here is more on the story from BP Sunday, March 26:

Witness in about-turn on poll fraud

Files police complaint against Suthep

By Wassayos Ngamkham

A key witness has reversed earlier testimony against Thai Rak Thai candidates over alleged electoral fraud and accused Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban of hiring her to point the finger at TRT and detaining her against her will. Thattima Pavalee, a Phaendin Thai party list candidate, yesterday filed a police complaint against Mr Suthep at the Crime Suppression Division after a team of crime suppression police went to Surat Thani on Friday to take her from Mr Suthep's house in Phunphin district, where she was allegedly detained.

Mrs Thattima said the other three witnesses were also being held against their will in different houses in the same compound.

Mrs Thattima said the Democrat party sent a man to invite her on Monday to meet Itthipol Chinnaraj, the Phaendin Thai party leader who was said to be at the Democrats' head office.

Only when Mrs Thattima arrived there did she discover she had been duped as Mr Itthipol was nowhere to be seen.

She claimed Mr Suthep had offered her a million baht and a position in the party in exchange for implicating Thai Rak Thai heavyweights in the election fraud, in which the ruling party was accused of hiring small parties to contest the April 2 poll.

She said Mr Suthep had already wired 300,000 baht to her bank account with a transfer slip being kept as evidence. She said Mr Suthep told her she would get the rest of the money after she had finished testifying to the court.

She said she agreed to accept the money partly because she wanted to pay off debts.

Then, she said, Mr Suthep had her read a script and recorded her reading it. He presented the video recording to the Election Commission as evidence.

Mrs Thattima insisted that the content of the video footage was invented and asked for police protection and called on the police to rescue the other three witnesses.

It was reported that Mrs Thattima was seen trying to phone Mr Suthep in an attempt to talk about returning the 300,000 baht.

On Thursday, Mr Suthep accompanied four witnesses, including Mrs Thattima, to the Region 8 Police Bureau in Surat Thani, where they were questioned by the EC's investigation squad headed by Pol Lt-Col Suvicha Bunmee.

The other three are Chavakarn Tosawat, a Pattana Chart Thai candidate in Bangkok's constituency 29 (Bangkok Noi); Suksant Chaithes, Pattana Chart Thai's campaign director; and Monthiraporn Pimchan, Mr Suksant's assistant.

Mr Suthep said last week that three TRT executives _ deputy leader Gen Thammarak Isarangkura na Ayudhaya and deputy secretaries-general Pongsak Raktapongpaisal and Prommin Lertsuridej _ were behind the ruling party's tampering of the EC database to allow unqualified candidates from smaller parties to run in the election.

Mr Suthep asked EC investigators to question witnesses in Surat Thani instead of Bangkok for safety reasons.

http://bangkokpost.com/News/26Mar2006_news10.php

Key leaders call for royal intervention

Somsak said PAD's only goal at the moment was to oust Thaksin and they had not resolved how the post-Thaksin era should be.

--The Nation 2006-03-22

I think that just about says it all! Brain in neutral and no ideas.

I agree. Having spent many cups of coffee over the Bangkok Post this last month, and having had many a discussion with Bangkok cab drivers, my opinion is that PAD is on a personal vandetta against Thaksin. In fact, PAD would probably claim a victory if TRT won the election without Thaksin as PM. PAD has no political agenda or vision. Their actions are personal and spiteful. They are not thinking of the Thai people, Thai culture or democracy.

Duh! ... PAD's only agenda is getting Thaksin out ....... did it take you very long to figure this out? a month and lots of coffee and you just got this?

Maybe Virgil was giving them the benefit of a doubt. We see all these educated and enlightened Bangkokians following the PAD all over town 24 hours a day. Surely the PAD would have thought through their agenda - what happens if there is actually a "post Thaksin" era.

The anti-Thaksin movement only grows bigger by the day as Thaksin's popularity is steadily dwindling. Take a look at today's crowd in Bangkok, bigger than ever.

I have been hearing almost daily that for several months. Maybe popularity is dwindling, but it must be doing so very slowly. He is still here and there are no signs that he is going anywhere soon. We will have a better idea of his ratings after April 2nd. That will probably be the most accurate poll yet.

The BKK Post reports that yesterday's rally was attended by "more than 100,000". What are the estimates for today's rally and from what source? I ask that because there always seems to be wide variations in the estimates.

CCOT and anti-Thaksin protesters were quick to respond yesterday.

"Today's ruling is considered yet another victory for PAD," ...

Did the PAD do this? I thought it was the Supreme Administrative Court.

...and this just in - I think we have the answer folks...

by Sriacha John:

.... how benevolent, condescending, and "big" of Mr. Big to "accept" the Supreme Court's decision. What other choice does he have? Appeal it to the Penultimate Court? The Supreme Court IS the final word. What a f*cktwat he is.

by Thaising

This is to show the present corrupt administration that they can't just twist laws to suit their pocket.

Precisely. My point is not to mock the previous posters, but to emphasize the fact that there are checks and balances. Although the PM is powerful and influential, he is not a dictator. There is a system in place that works. The PAD's camp out in Bangkok is not the only hope for Thailand.

Tick Tock, I think the 48 hours are up!!!! NOTHING.

Inexpensive, but ACCURATE watches are available at MBK shopping center..

DARN!! I must have plugged my American clock into the wrong voltage again!

Errr... has anyone heard the opposition calling names and throwing insults at Taksin? Can you give an example please? It appears that your statement is not based on any facts.

Yes, the speaches of the Sondhi/Chamlong crowd are extraordinary insulting, and full of expletitives. You can hear that for yourself if you go and have a look at the demonstrations, or go to the ASTV website.

http://broadcast.manager.co.th/11news1

No,No,no! The Opposition here means the Parliamentary Opposition, ie the Democrats, Chart Thai and Mahachon; they have been very restrained, indeed ever since Apisit became leader he has insisted only himself and Ong-art, The Party Spokesman, speak for the party.

They know they cannot join PAD on stage having boycotted the election.

Only a few of the speakers on the PAD site are using profane language, most are just expressing their views passionately; don't forget in the course of 24 hours the number of speakers, contributors, musicians must be well over 50.

Plus - you caught me flat footed. I have gotten much of my info from my wife who watches the television coverage and translates it to me, so I have not been able to document it. I might go through back issues of thenation and gather some material.

To clarify my original statement, I do mean the PAD, not the politicians. I don't have a case-by- case of each insult, asinine statement or name-calling incident, but what I do see is things like the big posters of Thaksin eating the flag, comparisons to Hitler and the like. I see the foreigners picking it up here on the forum too. Everyone has the right to express their views passionately, but much of this is not constructive and will not lead to reconcilliation.

Out here in eastern Kalasin province we had a severe storm last night, some hail, about the size of marbles, big enough to wake you up if they hit you in the head. Also, high winds and heavy rain, blew a few small trees over. We get summer rain storms every few weeks here. This year you'd hardly know it's dry season, except it gets very hot in between.

Bryan

Mr. Abhisit is willing to cooperate with every party to find solutions to the on-going situation

..clip..

He has also requested the premier to stop giving interviews and speeches, as they could create more confusion in the society. Mr. Abhisit said his interviews and speeches can possibly aggravate the situation.

..clip..

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 16 March 2006

This is a weird statement on its own, to request the PM not to speak, but especially as the opposition has been issuing asinine speeches, name calling and insults around the clock for weeks now.

Some people who are against Thaksin have already discounted Sondhi and his group as being only tools to bring down the Prime Minister. That may be the case but here is the head of the leading political party of the opposition. He should be trying to emerge as a leader at a time like this.

Bryan

I hear that the King issued a written statement which was read on television early evening yesterday, before chairman Prem's speech. I have searched through a few news sources and the TV forum and not heard anything about it. Anyone else heard about this?

My wife told me that it was a little more pointed than Prem's speech. She translated Prem's speech as it was shown in television. To a foreigner like me, it seemed a bit ambiguous.

If the King issued a statement, I am surprised that it got almost no coverage or comment.

Bryan

State of Emergency?

Army takeover ?

Perhaps that is what Thaksin Shinytwat wanted all along ?

Really? Maybe it's Mr. Sondi who has been wishing for such theatrics.

"Media mogul vows ‘it will be my first and last action. I will give my life to the struggle. It will dwarf October 14, 1973’. Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul yesterday said he was willing to sacrifice his life to lead a “people’s power” uprising to oust Thaksin on February 4 at Sanam Luang. "

quote from thenation January 21, 2006

I have the stong felling that the polls are all fake....

My wife is reporting that Thaksin bashing is getting famous.

If you come from Isaan, don't know anything, but you want to show how smart you are and that you know whats going on, than you tell some bad things about Thaksin.

But maybe thats a minority, but I can not tell how people feeling....

Wife: Isaan, several years of college and many years work experience in America, now working on bachelor's degree at Ram.

Strongly pro-Thaksin. Often yells at TV.

As you say, Thai bashing might be becoming fashionable.

Back home in Seattle (USA), if people from New York got on television and said people from Seattle voted for ______ because we were from Seattle and were ignorant and stupid, we would react by continuing to be proud to be Seattlites and be even more determined to vote for _____. However, I don't know if people here think that way. They might want to change their vote just to show that they are "educated". I hope only a minority would do so. If they are anti-Thaksin, I hope it is based on the issues.

We have it here in Isaan too. Every year they burn the mountains near where we live. I was told that it is deliberate. After the fire, small green shoots come out of the plants, which the locals can gather and eat or sell in the market. Not all the locals agree with this method, but noone can stop the few who do it.

As for farmer burning their own land, it does release nutrients into the soil for the next crop. That is probably one of the main reasons it is done. In a similar way to fertilizing with chemicals, it makes the soil hard like concrete.

Other than trying to restore the soil in an old rice farm and do gardening, I am not an expert on these things. However, as to what are the proper methods, I would listen to the real experts in the agricultural colleges and experts sponsored by the Royal Family. They advocate plowing under the stubble, etc., and other methods which restore the natural topsoil.

As for the idea that "they have been doing this for centuries, etc...", it is simply not true. It is not a steady state system. If you want to go back centuries or even decades, population density was always low enough that people could depend on hunting and gathering. There was always another jungle that could be cleared and farmed on. It was always known that the soil in a cleared jungle would produce good crops for several years, then more jungle could be cleared. However, since the jungles are gone and the soil is bad, the farmers now need to begin to use better methods.

Bryan

He might meet a violent end if he doesn't stop soon. He's clearly lost all sense of reality - how can he think of staying on after last night broadcast? Does he really think that he'll be able to stay on after talks with Oppostion and PAD? That everybody will just go home and forget about him?

According to the Constitutions a person is disqualified if he is - Rule number - (1) being of unsound mind or of mental infirmity;

Ages ago I was wondering if the present day Taksin will meet the similar end to the King Taksin the founder of Bangkok-Thonburi. After driving off Burmese invaders (IMF), King Taksin reestablished the Kingdom of Siam, but ended his life after descending into some mental condition.

Their names might be spelt differently, but the similarities do end in their names only.

I meand do NOT end...

It will be a sad day for the tens of millions of Thaksin supporters here in the Northeast and North if the Bangkok mob succeeds in driving the PM out.

Taksin should resign for concealing his assets, not because he is beaten by opposition in elections. There are legal requirements for MPs. One of them, for example, is having a bachelor degree, and another is complete asset declaration.

What if Taksin had a fake degree from Kao Sarn road? Following your logic the opposition should "join the system" and beat him in countrywide elections to enforce the rule that fake degree holders need not apply in the first place.

It's not the matter of votes - it's the matter of qualifying to stand for public office.

Clever fellow that he is, he sidestepped the issue of his legitimacy and switched to his popularity instead. That fooled lots of rural folks, and a few farangs, apparently, but didn't hold with educated urbanites who see his games through.

You bring up an interesting point. In a case like this, where there is some disagreement about whether or not the PM is legitimate, there is probably an enforcement body of some kind. Who is that, the parliament? That of course is dissolved now, and even before that the TRT was the overwhelming majority. If there was something similar to an impeachment process it would have been difficult to pull off. Unless Thaksin stands up one day and says, "OK guys, I'm a phony and corrupt to the bone, so I'm going to resign...", this ultimately needs to be worked out in the voting booth. If the "rural folks and a few farangs" are uneducated and uninformed, it is the burden of the "educated urbanites" to educate us on how to vote in the next election(although farangs can't really vote), since Thaksin is the sitting PM. This is how it works in a civilized society.

Nearly 100 firms face boycott in drive to oust Thai PM

by Nareerat Wiriyapong

<clip>

The boycott list includes several top international brands, such

as Toyota, Heineken, Nescafe and Seven-Eleven.

"We will see to it that Thai people don't drink Nescafe coffee

or buy goods at Seven-Eleven convenience stores," said Parnthep

Puurpongpan, a spokesman for the anti-Thaksin coalition that has led

weekly protests in Bangkok.

<clip>

AFP 081317 GMT MAR 06

Yeah, right. Who is it that's fleeing reality?

Time to head down to 7-11 and buy a sixpack and a jar of coffee. The Toyota will have to wait for a while though.

Shrewd man - out on the campaign trail for the next few weeks criss crossing thailand provinces. This is what the opposition should be doing, however they are intent on whinging instead of participating in the democratic process called an election.

You are quite right. I have always thought that the opposition should have joined the system. Put together a coherent platform with positive ideas. They should have been able to "win back" the country legally between now and the next election if their ideas are so good and if there is such a pressing need to replace Thaksin.

Like is says in Thenation article, Thaksin must be nervous now. In Bangkok there are perhaps 2 or 3 million people who are demanding his resignation. I can't blame him for going upcountry and spending time with the other 60 million Thai citizens who support him (most of them), even though they are poor and uneducated.

And I can't blame Sondhi and his journalists are sqealing like pigs over Thaksin's latest trip. It must be frustrating for them.

Bryan