bossman

CM2 is like q-bar, bed supper club, et al. Basically all the farang orientated nightclubs double as houses of prostitution.

The drinks prices at the Londoner are really expensive!

They are on par with many places in Covent Garden, only the Londoner is a plastic "Weatherspoons" pub in a red light district in Bangkok.

They are so arrogant. Why would people pay such outragous prices (they do)?

Also Orileys and Irish Exchange on/near Silom road also charge crazy prices - although I have to admit they arent as tacky as the Londoner - which actually more closely resembles an American style bar. Its a far cry from a good British style pub.

You can drink in the Oriental for the same price as Londoner.

I have to admit that the sunday carvery at Londoner for 400B is reasonable value and the food is good.

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They can charge outrageous prices because there are plenty of overweight cash laden expats willing to pay the markup and "atmosphere" you get in a cruddy pseudo british bar.

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Eventually I believe the EFL teachers will have to be recruited internationally on a competitive wage scale. Other asian countries have had to do this to attract legitimate decent teachers and not fly by night backpackers or sex tourists. Unfortunately because Thailand is a developing world country they will amost always fall behind in attracting the best candidates.

The competition is has been going on since you got off the plane.  It's just that you chose to compete as an average player in a casino with the odds set in its favor.    If you want to win, count cards, work harder, or get creative.    Or do as the Chinese have done... go out and takeover key positions in the nation's police, army, and government.  Then it's all gravy. 

Then again the Chinese had plenty of time to integrate themselves seamlessly into this society and are viewed as more or less Thai. It's pretty much impossible for the average farang to do this. The "race" and "westerner" element will always lock out the farang from going deeper than surface relationships. Some farang might be having casual or in law type relations with a so called hiso Thai but you'll never see a farang in a Thai government office wielding real power. It's just not going to happen anytime soon. Maybe a well integrated luk-kreung can but that's after they have proven themselves to be thai and not a farang. Of course a western government or corporation could get cute and implant the native "puppet" but once that's figured out expect the usual cycle of resentment and violence to begin. Thailand isn't a multicultural/racial society like some western countries so it's useless trying to apply our rules to it.

So the Thai people know they are in deep shito, so that Thai Law is their main shield of protection and defense and its all they have left or they will be truly out in the streets against foreigner invasions etc.

Daveyo

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Well no duh. Thailand is a small poor developing world country which makes them especially vulnerable to first world style takeovers. A few western big dogs with lots of money to throw around could theoretically buy up most of the real estate if the laws weren't there. The foreigner bias is there for a good reason. It may not be good for Foreigners but it's good for THEM. The fact is if the law ever swung in a direction where a foreigner could own lots of land and lock the Thai people out then there would be some serious resentment and maybe bloodshed. It'd be a modern day colonialist situation which maybe some of you find enticing. Good luck with making that happen, we all know what the history is in SE asia with that.

I'm currently in UK but moving over there shortly so interested in sections like this.

I was over there visiting my son in January and he is very sensitive to Thai culture and protocols to his credit.

He wouldn't take me to Koh San Road (he hates the place) but his wife took me there and, from what I saw, can't blame him his reluctance.

We also travelled by train down to Chumpong for the boat to Ko Tao and the behaviour of some of the 'backpackers' even I found quite insenstive and offensive.

Unfortunately both you and the Thais had better brace yourself for worse to come.

There have been an number of articles and programmes over here recently about the problem, in particular in relation to the 'sex tourist' and the yobbish element finding their way there.

This are the kind of lager louts who would terrorise Blackpool until cheap air travel enabled them to get at the cheap booze on the Spanish Costas.

Unfortunately, they can now get as far as Thailand - for pretty much the same as it costs to get to Spain. In fact, in one article I read it said that British Airways alone was flying 5 Jumbos a week directly to Bangkok.

Unfortunately the thought of cheap booze and cheap fanny (Americans read 'pussy') available it aint gonna get any better.

Probably best for me, when I eventually arrive over, there to avoid the tourists spots altogether - after all, the reason for moving over there in the first place is to get away from these hideous ars*holes !

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Just give it some time and there will be a Thai backlash of epic proportions. Maybe this needed to happen sooner or later to get rid of some of the scum polluting thailand.

No and they make it obvious that all that is required from a farang is their cash. Farang have few rights and very little ultimate protection in Thailand but can still be relied upon for much needed revenue for the government. So why should they change the system?

Thais are motivated by two and only two factors - face and money.

So, the question must first be addressed, "What's in it for the Thai?"

It is only when money is at risk (rules get so restrictive that foreigeners stop coming in the numbers they do) or face is at risk (corruption and injustice are broadcast to such a degree that the nation becomes the subject of ridicule) that they will really listen let alone actually make any concessions.

Is this not obvious?

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That's right and why should they care? It's their country and farang are the ones coming to visit..sometimes for dubious purposes. They can write whatever rules they want into their big fat rulebook. If farang or anyone else don't like it them i'm sure there are other countries in the world available for tourism or retirement purposes. The griping only tells me that some people will take it on the chin no matter what afterall it's what the thai government expects. So who's the dummy? If it was my country I would be juicing every last baht I could from farang (kwai) too.

Thai women say that Thai men are usless !! Any wonder, their mothers and grandmothers pamper them shitless, they're spoilt brats by the time they're 4 or 5 yo. It carries on throughout their adulthood, they are selfish, spineless, lack responsibility and dont respect women but on the other hand, girls even very young are supposed to help their mothers take care of the family, to achieve this it might even mean having no education at all, so what are their options ? My wife considers herself lucky, she did 3 years primary school, her brothers went to year 6 but her other sisters didnt go to school at all.

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I know plenty of thai guys that aren't "useless" sorry to disappoint you champ but thai women (the players) will tell you what you want to hear when big money (maybe small in your case) is involved.

And since the farang presence is less numerous in CR, it obliges us to mix more with the thais, which is great.

All this is a question of taste. I loved Nan, but didn't like Phrae at all, and would certainly choose for CR if I had to make a choice.

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Any place that has little to no farang presence gets two thumbs up for me. I got pretty ###### tired of seeing the same scruffy backpackers and aging sex tourists in Chiang mai.

Matt: I can understand your concern. Not only is a large part of Thailand's economy dependent on tourism (although some of the time you would not think so), it is also predominantly a Buddhist country.

Thai people seem to have a 'live and let live' philosophy. From my personal experience your sexuality is of no concern to them. They are very tolerant of gay people, even in small remote villages, far removed from what I call TT (Tourist Thailand).

So long as your actions are not 'in your face' passionate embraces with another male, they could not care less. The same goes for male farang and Thai women. Thais are basically shy people and it is rare to see public displays of affection.

I suggest you read through as many posts on ThaiVisa as possible before you arrive here. I hope you enjoy your visit and try to get off the beaten track where possible. Hopefully you will meet a nice Thai guy and visit his village and you will see what I mean.

Peter

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I find that this lack of public affection is starting to change. I see many young thais embracing in public places. Maybe still as not as much as in the west but it's not uncommon. I believe gay public affection might be more frowned upon though. The Thais are tolerant but I think in their own ways they frown on any behavior not in the norm. I think some thai girls shy away from public displays with a farang male because they don't want to be seen as a prostitute.

But its not going to happen- ever,..... and we expats constantly make the mistake of thinking that Thailand wants to be civilized in a Judeo-Christian tradition, and that's a completely inaccurate perception.

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I hope you meant that sarcastically. Think about how much violence happens during and after the average football game. Thai thugs causing trouble with water look like angels compared to european chavs and hooligan types.

Yeah, farangs tend to get the best treatment on initail encounters, but I think mistrusts of farang men are burgeoning in LOS.

I would say mistrust is turning into outright hostility in some cases. There are quite a few areas in Chiang Mai even where farang are not really welcome. It's still the case that a good Thai girl will be looked down on if she's seen with a farang. The fact is most girls who hang out at farang venues (bars, discos, etc..) are usually hookers. The girls that you see mostly with farang are hookers or Bargirl "girlfriends." There are girls out there with normal relationships with farang but it's difficult for them not to be placed into that "paid relationship" category. The acceptance of these relations aren't that great in Thai society.

  In any case, farangs have an edge in making the first impressions, so that's a great opportunity to use, rather then abuse. Unfortunately, farang men who aren't really good looking are the ones most prone to cosmetic good initial treatments, while the good looking ones get real admirations.  It should be noted though that these are infatuations, but can easily progress into something more meaningful.

These "infatuations" are often overstated by western males to boost egos. You have to really sit down and talk with some thais to get a good idea on what they think of foreigners. Some are brutally honest once you get to know them. If it weren't for the economic incentives then most farangs would have been sent packing a long time ago.

I heard from a friend who has an internet cafe in Bkk that this is also playing off with non bargirls, where they are looking for cash cows.

Sad really.

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Uni girls are starting to get in on this too. They will hook up with a farang under the guise of being a regular non hooking good girl and then slowly work in money/gift requests into the relationship. It's hard to differentiate real relationships with "work" relationships because of this. Not all girls are like this of course but Farangs are increasingly seen as whales (literally sometimes) in Thai society with lots of money, big egos, and little common sense.

Another favorite tactic is to string along many farang "boyfriends" with timeshare that support the TG's immediate family, her real thai boyfriend, and her nights out for sanuk. These girls aren't necessarily the stereotypical bargirls either. Just hang out at a internet cafe and watch some thai girl e-mails or get into confidence with one playing the game it's very enlightening .

I was at Khao san road for the first time a couple weeks ago and I have to throw in my two baht and agree that it's a pretty shitty place. It's interesting for about the first hour before you realize that it's a backpacker themed disney land with dreadlocks. The travellers aren't even the most annoying thing about KS road it's the Thais with their shitty jaded attitudes. I received the rudest service on KS road by far but I suppose if you had to deal with trashy smelly people daily you'd be pissed too. I can't imagine why anyone would want to stay in a guesthouse there. The pollution, noise, and smell is worse there than in most parts of Bangkok and that's saying a lot. Also the scams fly fast and furious around KS road I witnessed ticket scams, money changer scams, travel scams, and sketchy tuk tuks galore.

I don't see any reason why it's necessary to acknowledge other farangs in a different way from how we acknowledge -- or don't acknowledge -- Asians.  Just because they're skin is white?  I certainly don't feel any special camaraderie with someone just because they're the same race as I am.

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I agree with this but i'd like to add that a number of farang in Thailand are kind of scummy. Not exactly the type of people i'd want to associate with normally. I'm more likely to smile and say hello to a passing thai than a farang.

This sort of thing happens in the US every day. So often, in fact, that on a national level, it is hardly noticed

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If you think this kind of grotesque murder happens everyday in the U.S. you lived in a different U.S. (if that's where you're from) than I did, and I lived in CA. before LOS. I see more murder against foreigners per capita in Pattaya than in the city I lived in.

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You must have an unrealistic view of California. I live in the state right now and I can say for certain that there are murders in this state at least every day. Some happen in the inner city and never make the news unless you look at the statistics.

Hi, i'm planning on staying 4 months in Thailand, my plan is to get a double entry 60 day tourist Visa and do a visa run after the 60 days are up. However, my question is will they let me into Thailand even though my plane ticket shows that I intend on staying 4 months and I only have a 2 month visa?  Do they even check the departure dates at all if you have an actual visa?

Thanks.

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With a double entry tourist visa you should have no problems at all.

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Thanks for the reply. I realize I posted this on both forums, I did this one by mistake if you want to delete the original post that's fine.

Hi, i'm planning on staying 4 months in Thailand, my plan is to get a double entry 60 day tourist Visa and do a visa run after the 60 days are up. However, my question is will they let me into Thailand even though my plane ticket shows that I intend on staying 4 months and I only have a 2 month visa? Do they even check the departure dates at all if you have an actual visa?

Thanks.