khongaeng

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

When I bought land in Kalasin, the officer at Somdej Land Department Office was a bit unsure when I presented my ID card, so she asked me to check with her boss. The boss just said to the effect that he has a Thai ID card so he is Thai. I don't recall ever having to present my naturalization certificate and never bother taking a copy with me when doing anything official. Yesterday, when opening a bank account at SCB in Kalasin, I just presented my ID card. There was a lot of faffing about though because their system did not seem to accommodate those with middle names, but finally got it sorted. 

 

Have any others encountered middle name issues? I know some of you have many more than one middle name. I can't be arsed changing my name though as that would open a whole new can of worms.  

Yes,  I think Thai bank systems are becoming more flexible to middle names lately.  I opened a bank account at each of the 5 top banks in Thailand last year, and I think only one had an issue with my middle name.  It might have been SCB.  In that case, I think they just put my first and middle names together with a space as my first name.  All other Banks didn't have any issues with my middle name.  My middle name has never created a situation that I wasn't able to open an account or apply for something.  

16 hours ago, rsskga said:

A work permit + visa question if that's alright...

 

I'm preparing to apply for a work permit for the first time via a service provider. I'm in the process of being re-hired by an American company that I've worked for in the past (remote work from home - I realize I may not truly need a work permit since I am not taking a job from a Thai, but I'd rather be safe than sorry). Since the company has no presence in Thailand they are unable to help me obtain a work permit, hence the service provider. I'm currently on a non-immigrant O visa which will expire in October. I'm unable to extend it as my husband is working in the US right now and he would have to be physically present with me in Thailand to apply for the extension (or so I've been told by one immigration officer).

 

I'm aware of my options regarding the visa. I can leave Thailand, apply for a new non-immigrant O, and all should be well. Or, I could work with the service provider to switch me to a B visa (extra costs involved that I'll avoid if practical).

 

My question is, what happens with my work permit if I do either of those things? Is the work permit connected to the exact visa I have when I apply for it? Or can the work permit be transferred to the new visa? Should I get a new visa before applying for the work permit?

 

Thank you!

Non-O visa and work permit are separate. I was unemployed, then employed by a Thai company, then employed by my own company all while maintaining an extension of the original Non-O visa.

Be careful where you get a work permit from, because when you apply for citizenship, you will have to provide various documents from your employer (letter of employment, PND1, and possibly others).  It your employer is a pseudo-company that just provides work permits for foreigners, they probably won't provide you with the required information, because they will most certainly not want to bring unwanted attention to their grey-zone arrangement with foreigners to provide work permits.

You may consider opening your own company. Taxes, accounting fees, visas, WPs and everything included will cost you about 4000 EUR per year to open and maintain a company (based on my own experience).  If you do your own accounting, except for the annual audit, you can save considerably, but it all depends on how much effort you want to put into the process.  If you have your own company, you can generate the required paperwork whenever you want, and even adjust your salary to get more points (but also pay more tax).

I'm married to a Thai and SB asked me to sing in order to make sure that I got all of the language fluency points.  Apparently they won't make you sing if you are comfortably over the limit of 50 points.  I guess I was just at the cut off point.  I was not asked to sing at the MOI interview.  

If you are not yet on a Thabian Bahn then you can't even apply.  Supposedly you are supposed to get 5 points if you are on a house registration for 5 years, but they did not give me those points even though I was on a yellow book for 5 years.  You do not need to be registered for a minimum amount of time (if you are married to a Thai). I think the points in the residency section are geared towards Permanent Residents.  In the end, it doesn't really matter so long as you make the cutoff.  If SB asks you to pay the 5000 baht to lodge your application, it means that you have the minimum required points (they won't take your application fee unless you make the cut).

1 hour ago, ecline said:

 

I applied in June 2021, so I called the MOI today to check my status. Last year the Bangkok special Branch told us they sent my docs to the MOI in August last year. Today the MOI told me they received my docs in December of last year and that there was zero chance of an interview this year and that there was a good chance I won't get an interview next year either. I don't know what happened there, but my citizenship bid seems to have been been set back by quite a while. The guy on the phone implied that I should not call again and that someone would be in touch when my time comes.

 

37 years in this country and I have always tried to do the right thing. It sure doesn't seem to count for much.....

That sounds about right given most people's recent timelines.  My documents were at MOI for 30 months before I finally got called for an interview.  The process is incredibly slow.  I reached out to SB once every couple of months and MOI once every couple of months during my application process and it didn't help at all.  Fortunately this forum provides clear documentation that the application process works.  I remember how painful the waiting process was thinking how can it be this way after paying so many Baht in taxes and after doing this and that for the country and the community that I live in.  Don't worry about it.  Your application is making progress, just let it run its course.  It will take 3-4 years give or take half a year.  This is normal.  Good luck!

9 hours ago, qualtrough said:

One more question if I may, and this one is directed to US citizens. I think it is relevant to the topic at hand, but if not mods can delete.

 

I am collecting SS from the US and every year they send a form to verify that you are still alive, asking a few questions. One of them is, " Has there been a change in your citizenship or your country of residence that you have not yet reported to SSA".

 

I am wondering why they need to know this, since it is allowed to collect SS as a non-citizen (if that is the case) and if you live overseas? Makes me wonder if at some point they might decide that those who change citizenship no longer qualify, and why they need to know this information. I have googled this many times, and the only hits I get are for people on SS who have become US citizens, not US citizens who have taken another citizenship. If anyone can advise about this your response will be greatly appreciated.

 To me that question is asking if have you changed your citizenship.  To which the answer is no, because you have merely acquired another citizenship.  You still are a US citizen and file your income taxes yearly.  Your country of residence probably also hasn't changed if you have been claiming residency in Thailand on your US taxes.  

On 6/5/2023 at 1:59 PM, qualtrough said:

That story makes me a bit nervous. After I was granted citizenship I went down to my local immigration department to cancel my visa. They took care of that, but had no documentation to hand me. When I ask them about it they told me not to worry, I was removed from the system. I found/find it hard to believe that there is no documentation offered for such an important event. Did anyone else canceling their visa get any kind of paperwork attesting to that?

I had my visa cancelled at the immigration office as well, but they didn't stamp cancelled over the visa and re-entry in the passport.  Rather they wrote in Thai (taking the usual full page of my previous nationality passport). "This person received Thai nationality according to the the Royal Gazette posting xxxxx on date xxxxx" signed by the person in charge that would normally sign visas.  The documents I took with me were my Blue Thai ID card. Royal Gazette copy and Naturalization paper.  They didn't keep any originals and actually made copies for free (shocking)! My European friend that had immigration police show up at his door 2 years after his visa expired also had a similar handwritten note in his passport.  

Funny story.  My European friend who got his citizenship the same time as I did was out of town a couple of weeks ago and 3 immigration police show up at his house, asking his wife where he was.  His wife explained to them that he had received his Thai citizenship all the way back in 2021, and that he had gotten his visa cancelled at immigration immediately after getting his blue ID card.  They explained that somehow their team was different from the visa department and that they never received word that my friend had acquired Thai citizenship.  His wife gave them a copy of his ID card and they went happily on their way.

I thought it was interesting to find out that even if you go through all the right steps of cancelling your visa, etc. Immigration may still come looking for you.  This is the first time I have heard about something like this happening, which means that in all other cases, Immigration must not be bothered enough to check on people that have "overstayed" their visa.  Apparently they came with their police cars and 4 officers, as if they were ready to haul him away to immigration prison.  Even within Immigration, I guess one department can't be bothered to let the others know about immigration status.  It is a miracle that our applications are able to make it through the process at all to obtain Thai nationality.  

No, your new Thai name will not automatically be used on your new ID card.  All of the paperwork and Royal Gazette announcements will have your foreign name on them.  You will first get your ID card in your foreign name, at which point you could have the option to change your name to the Thai name you reserved at the start of your application.  Your new Thai name is never used a single time in any paperwork after the day you request it as just part of the process that you are required to do.

On 3/11/2023 at 8:04 PM, ubonr1971 said:

I have a work permit. But we have our small business running through my wifes personal name not a company structure. I hope this doesn't cause issues as I assume most farang work through a company structure. Our business is legal and we have yearly licenses issued from the government authorities in our province (in my wifes name of course) BUT its not a company structure. I will be guttered if this turns out to be a show stopper for me. 

 

How do I get my name on a yellow book? Do they care about the duration? Should I be going to find a cheap rental right away??? Its not easy getting a yellow book actually

If you have a Pink ID card, then you should have been issued a yellow book at the same time.  For the yellow book you will need to go to the same office that a Thai would go to get their blue book or ID card and ask them what documents you need to bring.  It will be a stack, but basically the same stack of documents you need to apply for citizenship.  The yellow book may take a few months to get and it should only cost something around 100 baht (definitely less than 1000).  It has been such a long time since went through that ordeal that I have forgotten the process.

My name was on a yellow book in Bangkok for 1 day prior to applying at SB in Bangkok (I had been on a yellow book in our home province for almost 5 years prior to that).  They don't care how long you have been on the registration in Bangkok, only that your registration is in Bangkok.

2 - I think this is only applicable for Permanent Residents

5 - Yes, you need to put your name on a Yellow Book in Bangkok first.  If not, SB opposite Central World will tell you to talk to immigration in your home province.  Don't waste your time with this.  Move your registration, it will save you headaches later.  it is ok if you and your wife are registered to different addresses.

6 - Yes, copy every page dating back to the first time you got a Non Immigrant-O Visa

10 - Tax office will print one out and certify it for you, plan to waste a couple of hours for this nonsense.

11 - If you don't have a work permit.  Then STOP HERE.  You cannot continue until you get a work permit, even if you are paying taxes in Thailand.  If you are shareholder in the company then you will need to get a certified tax return for your company for the past year too.  You will also need a letter of employment from your company stating your salary, position, and employment date

13 - See number 11.  If your wife has a formal company, then a letter from her on the letterhead is acceptable.

17 - This one isn't required anymore.  Don't worry about it

18 - Yes read the past few pages on this forum, there are a few people discussing this.  It is required for the countries that have embassies that will sign the affidavit, otherwise some people seem to have success just taking a picture infant of their embassy

Good Luck!

Two months ago I bought my first house in my name.  I took all of my paperwork (nationality certificate, marriage certificate, house registration, ID card, and some extra stuff) but they only wanted to see my marriage certificate and ID card (of course).  I was surprised that they didn't even hesitate in processing the registration in my name. Maybe it is because I spoke Thai with them, but the process was completely painless.  I immediately went to the Khet and got my shiny new blue book with my name showing as owner of the house.  Again no issues here, in and out in 30 minutes.

Now my only remaining Thai bucket list is voting in Thailand (sadly it looks like I will miss this time around due to not being Thai for 5 years) and driving a Taxi in Thailand.  

I word for anyone just starting the process or thinking about starting the process.  Go for It!  It is so worth it (assuming you come from a country that allows dual nationality). I recommend you read through at least the last 50 pages of this forum, you will learn a lot from many really helpful people.  Good luck!

20 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

May I ask from the day that you submit the documents (number 1) to the day the you apply for a thai passport (number 10)..... what is the 'average' time for this whole process of applying for Thai citizenship (based on being married to thai lady)?

I encourage you to take a look at pages around 190 to 210 of this forum.  During that time there were a lot of us active giving details about the timeline for the process.  Here is a link to my post:

So, funny thing.  When I left Thailand last week with an 11 year old child and without her mother, the immigration officer pulled me aside and wanted to FaceTime my wife to confirm she had given me her consent to take our child out of Thailand.  I'm glad that she didn't change her mind on the FaceTime call after dropping us off at the airport a few minutes earlier ????. When my wife flew with another child a few days later, they didn't ask for my wife to call me.  

So I guess foreigner-faced Thai guy with Luuk Krung kids is more suspicious then Thai mother with Luuk Krung kids.  When I asked if I should have brought any documents with me other than my child's passport, he said I should have also brought their birth certificate.  I thought the whole situation was a bit bizarre 

I agree with @Arkady.  Bring all the documents just in case.  However, my documents were never checked (not even my passport or any form of ID) after I finished the NIA interview all the way up until I was at the Khed getting my Blue Thai ID card.  Not a single one of my documents was checked at DOPA/MOI interview, Oath Ceremony, or when I picked up my naturalization certificate.  Throughout the entire time I maintained my work permit as is required.  My documents like yellow book and Work Permit were only checked again when I was at the Khed getting my blue ID card.

If I remember correctly, the Christian oath was quite generic, other than putting a hand on bible, the actual oath had nothing to do with God or Christian beliefs.  The Buddhist oath is much more involved requiring you to kneel before a shrine with incense in your hands.  

First time I traveled out of the country last year, I didn't have any issues on my Thai passport.   I don't know if it is because I have and ABTC card which allows me to go through VIP immigration lanes?? I have never been asked for my foreign passport once since cancelling my Thai visa when I got my Thai ID.  2nd time I traveled out of the country, of course, also no problems.

18 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

Thank you for your input yankee99.  Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already.  I was curious to know how common my experience was.  My original contact is still at SB.  We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset.  Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

It sounds like the process has changed a bit since I went through this part of the process 5 years ago.  At that time interviewing with NIA was within 3 months after SB interview and fingerprinting.  The NIA interview was only 30 minutes, and that was after a very detailed inspection of all of our vital documents.  The NIA officer even found some errors that the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs made with our documents.  I thought that was funny, and fortunately, the officer just moved on without making a big deal.  

The big wait will be after you finish your NIA interview.  After NIA your application gets sent all around Bangkok for every department in the kingdom to affix their rubber stamp before it is finally forwarded onto MOI.  You will not receive any automatic status updates from the time your NIA interview is finished until your MOI interview is scheduled.  Many have reported that their SB officer did the decent thing and told them when their application was finally forwarded to MOI.  In my case this was 5 or 6 months after my NIA interview that my documents were finally sent to the long queue at MOI (I had to ask my officer when it was finally sent).  Right before my documents were sent to MOI, I did get a call back from my SB officer that I needed to bring some additional documents that the officer rejected the year prior saying that they weren't needed.  I found out later that this mistake from my office ended up costing 8 months of processing time on my application.  This is a lesson from the experience, that I think everyone here will echo, you just have to be patient with the process and give them whatever documents they ask for... at least in my case, they never asked for anything more than documents, and I never got the feeling that that would be required from my application to ultimately be successfully processed. There is no firm timeline but it seems that all applications within the past 7 years are completed between 2 years and 4 years after you apply.  If you are famous, then you can possibly get everything finished within 1 year.

20 hours ago, Arkady said:

I am wondering if any naturalised Thais here have any recent experience applying for visas to farang countries in their Thai passports.  I have a friend who got his Thai nationality over 20 years ago and always used to get US and European visas (now Schengen) for trips. He also had a UK COE in his Thai passport which used to be of permanent validity and could be transferred to new passports free of charge but the UK stopped issuing COEs in 2007 and annulled all the existing ones when the passports they were in expired.  UK visas are very expensive, over GBP 700 for a 10 year visa and UK passport holders are ineligible.  Schengen visas are only available for a specific trip but Switzerland offers or used to offer a special service providing visas in other passports of Swiss citizens and I think Australia has something similar. US visas are good value, if you can get one but US citizens ineligible.  A 10 year multiple US visa is only $160 but the wait list for appointments in Bangkok is currently about 8 months, even though the State Dept website misleadingly says it's only 41 days. No idea about Australian, Canadian or other visas. I once got an Aussie visa for the missus and it was a PITA and I don't think they offered more than a specific trip visa like Schengen. 

Fortunately my ABTC (APEC Business Traveler Card) card with my Thai passport gets me into most of the countries I need to go to including Australia, New Zealand and Mexico.  Unfortunately it does not give a visa to the US and Canada.  If you qualify through your company, this is definitely the easiest way to get a visa for most countries that touch the Pacific Ocean.  

23 hours ago, Arkady said:

So is SB insisting on interviewing the witnesses in most cases these days?  For some years they were happy to write up imaginary interviews to avoid bringing them into the office.

From what others have said, it sounds like it is not required for witnesses to visit SB.  When I visited SB during my paperwork collection phase, they. said that I needed 2 witnesses but that they could "arrange" them for me.  Avoiding the possible awkwardness if payment was required for these "arranged" witnesses, I opted to find my own 2 witnesses.  I assumed that they would have to come to the office, so I brought them with me when I finalized my application, but I suppose it may not be required.  They were interviewed for less than 5 minutes and then were allowed to leave. I suppose this is an indication that their presence was not even required.  

1 hour ago, moochai87 said:

Ok that makes sense - I think I should be fine too ???? . One other follow up I have, is that for the two Thai people you need a copy of their TabienBaan and ID card, do they actually need to go with you when you apply? Or you can just bring the copies along with you? Trying to avoid any unnecessary trips to SB police for my friends? On that actually, does my wife need to attend anything?

I took my witnesses to the office on the day that I "finalized" my application, which was not the day that I was finger printed and interviewed with the big boss and then the big big boss. SB should be able to tell you when you need to bring your friends.  Your wife will need to be with you during all interviews at SB, NIA (background check interview), and MOA (big group interview).  I can't remember if she has to be there when you take the oath or not.  After you have taken the oath she does not need to come with you to pick up your certification of citizenship, but that takes only 30 minutes after minimum 3 years after you have started the process.  Basically, your wife will need to be with you the entire time whenever there is an official interview.  In my case, I felt more comfortable with my wife there, too, so that I wouldn't be asked for a bribe when she was not there to protect me as a Thai.  I should say now, that I doubt that I would have been asked for a bribe and the officers I interacted with were respectful and straightforward, but I suppose you never know what could happen.  Best of luck in your application!

8 hours ago, yankee99 said:

Maybe someone can share their experience with flying out of thailand. 

 

Tomorrow im going to the airport do i just hand the check in counter both passports? 

 

Go to the thai immigration hand them my thai passport and ticket? 

Check In - Thai Passport (and foreign passport if no visa in your Thai passport)

Immigration - Thai Passport Only, in 10s of trips out of Thailand for my dual national relatives, I have never seen immigration want to see another passport ever.

At the Gate - Depends on which passport the check in counter used to check you in.  I recommend you using your Thai passport, but you can use either.  If you give them the wrong one, the automatic scanner will beep requiring you to walk 1 meter to the people behind the computers who will scan your boarding pass and look at the passport you handed the gate agent, they will then promptly wave you through.

My general policy is to only use my foreign passport when absolutely necessary (like at check in when a visa is required for the final destination), once you are out of Thailand you can flash which ever passport you want while in transit to your final destination.  I have never seen agents at the boarding gates check for visas in your passport unless you are boarding a flight to the US (there may be others), so I typically just use whichever passport is handy from then on.  When arriving at your destination immigration, use whichever passport is required to enter that country.  On the way back, just reverse the process.