khongaeng

11 hours ago, JayLeno said:

Guys. Should I wait for the 3 years timeframe (just got married) or can I introduce my request asap? I see the entire process takes at least 5 years 

Yes, But go ahead and get the yellow book process started.  I've heard that it could take as long as a year (mine took 6 months). If you have a baby sometime in the next 3 years then as soon as your baby is born you can apply (I highly recommend not rushing having children for the sole purpose of applying for Thai citizenship, though 😉)

5 hours ago, DrJoy said:

If its less than 5 yrs old = 0 points

When I applied based on marriage back in 2016 or 2017, Special Branch required me to have a Yellow Book (and I believe the pink ID).  I was on the Yellow Book for over 5 years, but they still didn't give me any points for it.  At the time, I believe that Arkady explained that the point system for registration is geared only for PR, so those of us applying based on marriage shouldn't hope to get any points under the residency section.  

@JayLeno I think the yellow book is required so that you are tied to a house registration.  When you go and reserve your new Thai name (as part of the process) and then at the end of the process when you get your citizenship, it will be based on your house registration.  Yellow books can be a pain to get depending on the office you are working with, so I would get that process started as soon as you can.

1 hour ago, hughrection said:

Unfortunately, you need to be paying tax on a 40k Thai baht salary. I earn more than this but my Uni cooks the books and so only declares less and puts the remainder down to housing allowance. I can't therefore apply even though I have been here 20 years with about 15 of them on work permit. 😞 

You should talk to your Uni about this.   I can't think of a reason why they would cook the books unless built into your contract is a provision to offset your income tax in some way or possibly they want to save a little bit on your social fund contributions.  Maybe they will work with you to get you above the minimum 40k, so that you qualify.  However, at the same time, others on this forum have received backlash from their employers after becoming Thai because once you are Thai, they are not required to pay you as much or give you as many benefits.  

5 hours ago, JayLeno said:

I’m unsure if my profile is suitable for obtaining citizenship and would appreciate your honest feedback.

I am 40 years old, married, and work in IT. I speak Thai fluently and have a solid understanding of Thai culture. Having lived here for nearly 10 years, I believe my decision to apply for citizenship is well-considered. I have held a continuous work permit for over three years (including 9 months with my current employer) and have paid taxes for the past three years. Could you please advise me on which guides or resources I should consult?

Your wife is Thai correct? Do you have a yellow house registration book yet?

11 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

The Nationality Act 1965 (and 2008 amendment)

 

"Section 19. The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality ..."

 

Applicants are required to submit a statement of intent to renounce former nationality once Thai nationality is received and Special Branch tell applicants on several occasions that former nationality has to be given up. It may all be just for show but anyone who naturalizes absolutely does not want to be found using their "former nationality". Which is why e-gates are preferable to a passport check by a Thai I/O. "Flying direct to the US? But no visa in your Thai passport? Explain." 

 

 

 

 

 

This is absolutely true.  

However as a data point for those who are concerned, I have flown in and out of Thailand 30 times in the past 4 years.  I have only 2 stamps from another country in my passport.  I have multiple pages full of stamps out and in through Thai immigration because I always go through the manual stamping lines, in the BOI/Monk/Special Assistance area (they don't have auto machines in this area).  While coming into the country is just as fast to go through the Automated line as it is to go through the manual Thai stamping line, I have actually had a question on both of the 2 occasions when I went through the automated lines on the way out and when I came in through the manual stamping lines, they couldn't find the exit stamp.   They simply asked "did you go through the auto lanes on the way out" to which I replied "yes."  On the 60+ times I have been face to face with a Thai immigration official, they have never questioned me about why I don't have a stamp from another country or a visa from another country in my Thai passport.  

I hope that this never changes, otherwise I will have to go through the slow security lines to get to the automated immigration lines on the way out, and then use only the automated immigration lines coming in as you suggested.

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

When I bought land in Kalasin, the officer at Somdej Land Department Office was a bit unsure when I presented my ID card, so she asked me to check with her boss. The boss just said to the effect that he has a Thai ID card so he is Thai. I don't recall ever having to present my naturalization certificate and never bother taking a copy with me when doing anything official. Yesterday, when opening a bank account at SCB in Kalasin, I just presented my ID card. There was a lot of faffing about though because their system did not seem to accommodate those with middle names, but finally got it sorted. 

 

Have any others encountered middle name issues? I know some of you have many more than one middle name. I can't be arsed changing my name though as that would open a whole new can of worms.  

Yes,  I think Thai bank systems are becoming more flexible to middle names lately.  I opened a bank account at each of the 5 top banks in Thailand last year, and I think only one had an issue with my middle name.  It might have been SCB.  In that case, I think they just put my first and middle names together with a space as my first name.  All other Banks didn't have any issues with my middle name.  My middle name has never created a situation that I wasn't able to open an account or apply for something.  

16 hours ago, rsskga said:

A work permit + visa question if that's alright...

 

I'm preparing to apply for a work permit for the first time via a service provider. I'm in the process of being re-hired by an American company that I've worked for in the past (remote work from home - I realize I may not truly need a work permit since I am not taking a job from a Thai, but I'd rather be safe than sorry). Since the company has no presence in Thailand they are unable to help me obtain a work permit, hence the service provider. I'm currently on a non-immigrant O visa which will expire in October. I'm unable to extend it as my husband is working in the US right now and he would have to be physically present with me in Thailand to apply for the extension (or so I've been told by one immigration officer).

 

I'm aware of my options regarding the visa. I can leave Thailand, apply for a new non-immigrant O, and all should be well. Or, I could work with the service provider to switch me to a B visa (extra costs involved that I'll avoid if practical).

 

My question is, what happens with my work permit if I do either of those things? Is the work permit connected to the exact visa I have when I apply for it? Or can the work permit be transferred to the new visa? Should I get a new visa before applying for the work permit?

 

Thank you!

Non-O visa and work permit are separate. I was unemployed, then employed by a Thai company, then employed by my own company all while maintaining an extension of the original Non-O visa.

Be careful where you get a work permit from, because when you apply for citizenship, you will have to provide various documents from your employer (letter of employment, PND1, and possibly others).  It your employer is a pseudo-company that just provides work permits for foreigners, they probably won't provide you with the required information, because they will most certainly not want to bring unwanted attention to their grey-zone arrangement with foreigners to provide work permits.

You may consider opening your own company. Taxes, accounting fees, visas, WPs and everything included will cost you about 4000 EUR per year to open and maintain a company (based on my own experience).  If you do your own accounting, except for the annual audit, you can save considerably, but it all depends on how much effort you want to put into the process.  If you have your own company, you can generate the required paperwork whenever you want, and even adjust your salary to get more points (but also pay more tax).

I'm married to a Thai and SB asked me to sing in order to make sure that I got all of the language fluency points.  Apparently they won't make you sing if you are comfortably over the limit of 50 points.  I guess I was just at the cut off point.  I was not asked to sing at the MOI interview.  

If you are not yet on a Thabian Bahn then you can't even apply.  Supposedly you are supposed to get 5 points if you are on a house registration for 5 years, but they did not give me those points even though I was on a yellow book for 5 years.  You do not need to be registered for a minimum amount of time (if you are married to a Thai). I think the points in the residency section are geared towards Permanent Residents.  In the end, it doesn't really matter so long as you make the cutoff.  If SB asks you to pay the 5000 baht to lodge your application, it means that you have the minimum required points (they won't take your application fee unless you make the cut).

1 hour ago, ecline said:

 

I applied in June 2021, so I called the MOI today to check my status. Last year the Bangkok special Branch told us they sent my docs to the MOI in August last year. Today the MOI told me they received my docs in December of last year and that there was zero chance of an interview this year and that there was a good chance I won't get an interview next year either. I don't know what happened there, but my citizenship bid seems to have been been set back by quite a while. The guy on the phone implied that I should not call again and that someone would be in touch when my time comes.

 

37 years in this country and I have always tried to do the right thing. It sure doesn't seem to count for much.....

That sounds about right given most people's recent timelines.  My documents were at MOI for 30 months before I finally got called for an interview.  The process is incredibly slow.  I reached out to SB once every couple of months and MOI once every couple of months during my application process and it didn't help at all.  Fortunately this forum provides clear documentation that the application process works.  I remember how painful the waiting process was thinking how can it be this way after paying so many Baht in taxes and after doing this and that for the country and the community that I live in.  Don't worry about it.  Your application is making progress, just let it run its course.  It will take 3-4 years give or take half a year.  This is normal.  Good luck!

9 hours ago, qualtrough said:

One more question if I may, and this one is directed to US citizens. I think it is relevant to the topic at hand, but if not mods can delete.

 

I am collecting SS from the US and every year they send a form to verify that you are still alive, asking a few questions. One of them is, " Has there been a change in your citizenship or your country of residence that you have not yet reported to SSA".

 

I am wondering why they need to know this, since it is allowed to collect SS as a non-citizen (if that is the case) and if you live overseas? Makes me wonder if at some point they might decide that those who change citizenship no longer qualify, and why they need to know this information. I have googled this many times, and the only hits I get are for people on SS who have become US citizens, not US citizens who have taken another citizenship. If anyone can advise about this your response will be greatly appreciated.

 To me that question is asking if have you changed your citizenship.  To which the answer is no, because you have merely acquired another citizenship.  You still are a US citizen and file your income taxes yearly.  Your country of residence probably also hasn't changed if you have been claiming residency in Thailand on your US taxes.  

On 6/5/2023 at 1:59 PM, qualtrough said:

That story makes me a bit nervous. After I was granted citizenship I went down to my local immigration department to cancel my visa. They took care of that, but had no documentation to hand me. When I ask them about it they told me not to worry, I was removed from the system. I found/find it hard to believe that there is no documentation offered for such an important event. Did anyone else canceling their visa get any kind of paperwork attesting to that?

I had my visa cancelled at the immigration office as well, but they didn't stamp cancelled over the visa and re-entry in the passport.  Rather they wrote in Thai (taking the usual full page of my previous nationality passport). "This person received Thai nationality according to the the Royal Gazette posting xxxxx on date xxxxx" signed by the person in charge that would normally sign visas.  The documents I took with me were my Blue Thai ID card. Royal Gazette copy and Naturalization paper.  They didn't keep any originals and actually made copies for free (shocking)! My European friend that had immigration police show up at his door 2 years after his visa expired also had a similar handwritten note in his passport.  

Funny story.  My European friend who got his citizenship the same time as I did was out of town a couple of weeks ago and 3 immigration police show up at his house, asking his wife where he was.  His wife explained to them that he had received his Thai citizenship all the way back in 2021, and that he had gotten his visa cancelled at immigration immediately after getting his blue ID card.  They explained that somehow their team was different from the visa department and that they never received word that my friend had acquired Thai citizenship.  His wife gave them a copy of his ID card and they went happily on their way.

I thought it was interesting to find out that even if you go through all the right steps of cancelling your visa, etc. Immigration may still come looking for you.  This is the first time I have heard about something like this happening, which means that in all other cases, Immigration must not be bothered enough to check on people that have "overstayed" their visa.  Apparently they came with their police cars and 4 officers, as if they were ready to haul him away to immigration prison.  Even within Immigration, I guess one department can't be bothered to let the others know about immigration status.  It is a miracle that our applications are able to make it through the process at all to obtain Thai nationality.  

No, your new Thai name will not automatically be used on your new ID card.  All of the paperwork and Royal Gazette announcements will have your foreign name on them.  You will first get your ID card in your foreign name, at which point you could have the option to change your name to the Thai name you reserved at the start of your application.  Your new Thai name is never used a single time in any paperwork after the day you request it as just part of the process that you are required to do.

On 3/11/2023 at 8:04 PM, ubonr1971 said:

I have a work permit. But we have our small business running through my wifes personal name not a company structure. I hope this doesn't cause issues as I assume most farang work through a company structure. Our business is legal and we have yearly licenses issued from the government authorities in our province (in my wifes name of course) BUT its not a company structure. I will be guttered if this turns out to be a show stopper for me. 

 

How do I get my name on a yellow book? Do they care about the duration? Should I be going to find a cheap rental right away??? Its not easy getting a yellow book actually

If you have a Pink ID card, then you should have been issued a yellow book at the same time.  For the yellow book you will need to go to the same office that a Thai would go to get their blue book or ID card and ask them what documents you need to bring.  It will be a stack, but basically the same stack of documents you need to apply for citizenship.  The yellow book may take a few months to get and it should only cost something around 100 baht (definitely less than 1000).  It has been such a long time since went through that ordeal that I have forgotten the process.

My name was on a yellow book in Bangkok for 1 day prior to applying at SB in Bangkok (I had been on a yellow book in our home province for almost 5 years prior to that).  They don't care how long you have been on the registration in Bangkok, only that your registration is in Bangkok.

2 - I think this is only applicable for Permanent Residents

5 - Yes, you need to put your name on a Yellow Book in Bangkok first.  If not, SB opposite Central World will tell you to talk to immigration in your home province.  Don't waste your time with this.  Move your registration, it will save you headaches later.  it is ok if you and your wife are registered to different addresses.

6 - Yes, copy every page dating back to the first time you got a Non Immigrant-O Visa

10 - Tax office will print one out and certify it for you, plan to waste a couple of hours for this nonsense.

11 - If you don't have a work permit.  Then STOP HERE.  You cannot continue until you get a work permit, even if you are paying taxes in Thailand.  If you are shareholder in the company then you will need to get a certified tax return for your company for the past year too.  You will also need a letter of employment from your company stating your salary, position, and employment date

13 - See number 11.  If your wife has a formal company, then a letter from her on the letterhead is acceptable.

17 - This one isn't required anymore.  Don't worry about it

18 - Yes read the past few pages on this forum, there are a few people discussing this.  It is required for the countries that have embassies that will sign the affidavit, otherwise some people seem to have success just taking a picture infant of their embassy

Good Luck!

Two months ago I bought my first house in my name.  I took all of my paperwork (nationality certificate, marriage certificate, house registration, ID card, and some extra stuff) but they only wanted to see my marriage certificate and ID card (of course).  I was surprised that they didn't even hesitate in processing the registration in my name. Maybe it is because I spoke Thai with them, but the process was completely painless.  I immediately went to the Khet and got my shiny new blue book with my name showing as owner of the house.  Again no issues here, in and out in 30 minutes.

Now my only remaining Thai bucket list is voting in Thailand (sadly it looks like I will miss this time around due to not being Thai for 5 years) and driving a Taxi in Thailand.  

I word for anyone just starting the process or thinking about starting the process.  Go for It!  It is so worth it (assuming you come from a country that allows dual nationality). I recommend you read through at least the last 50 pages of this forum, you will learn a lot from many really helpful people.  Good luck!

20 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

May I ask from the day that you submit the documents (number 1) to the day the you apply for a thai passport (number 10)..... what is the 'average' time for this whole process of applying for Thai citizenship (based on being married to thai lady)?

I encourage you to take a look at pages around 190 to 210 of this forum.  During that time there were a lot of us active giving details about the timeline for the process.  Here is a link to my post:

So, funny thing.  When I left Thailand last week with an 11 year old child and without her mother, the immigration officer pulled me aside and wanted to FaceTime my wife to confirm she had given me her consent to take our child out of Thailand.  I'm glad that she didn't change her mind on the FaceTime call after dropping us off at the airport a few minutes earlier ????. When my wife flew with another child a few days later, they didn't ask for my wife to call me.  

So I guess foreigner-faced Thai guy with Luuk Krung kids is more suspicious then Thai mother with Luuk Krung kids.  When I asked if I should have brought any documents with me other than my child's passport, he said I should have also brought their birth certificate.  I thought the whole situation was a bit bizarre 

I agree with @Arkady.  Bring all the documents just in case.  However, my documents were never checked (not even my passport or any form of ID) after I finished the NIA interview all the way up until I was at the Khed getting my Blue Thai ID card.  Not a single one of my documents was checked at DOPA/MOI interview, Oath Ceremony, or when I picked up my naturalization certificate.  Throughout the entire time I maintained my work permit as is required.  My documents like yellow book and Work Permit were only checked again when I was at the Khed getting my blue ID card.

If I remember correctly, the Christian oath was quite generic, other than putting a hand on bible, the actual oath had nothing to do with God or Christian beliefs.  The Buddhist oath is much more involved requiring you to kneel before a shrine with incense in your hands.  

First time I traveled out of the country last year, I didn't have any issues on my Thai passport.   I don't know if it is because I have and ABTC card which allows me to go through VIP immigration lanes?? I have never been asked for my foreign passport once since cancelling my Thai visa when I got my Thai ID.  2nd time I traveled out of the country, of course, also no problems.

18 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

Thank you for your input yankee99.  Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already.  I was curious to know how common my experience was.  My original contact is still at SB.  We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset.  Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

It sounds like the process has changed a bit since I went through this part of the process 5 years ago.  At that time interviewing with NIA was within 3 months after SB interview and fingerprinting.  The NIA interview was only 30 minutes, and that was after a very detailed inspection of all of our vital documents.  The NIA officer even found some errors that the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs made with our documents.  I thought that was funny, and fortunately, the officer just moved on without making a big deal.  

The big wait will be after you finish your NIA interview.  After NIA your application gets sent all around Bangkok for every department in the kingdom to affix their rubber stamp before it is finally forwarded onto MOI.  You will not receive any automatic status updates from the time your NIA interview is finished until your MOI interview is scheduled.  Many have reported that their SB officer did the decent thing and told them when their application was finally forwarded to MOI.  In my case this was 5 or 6 months after my NIA interview that my documents were finally sent to the long queue at MOI (I had to ask my officer when it was finally sent).  Right before my documents were sent to MOI, I did get a call back from my SB officer that I needed to bring some additional documents that the officer rejected the year prior saying that they weren't needed.  I found out later that this mistake from my office ended up costing 8 months of processing time on my application.  This is a lesson from the experience, that I think everyone here will echo, you just have to be patient with the process and give them whatever documents they ask for... at least in my case, they never asked for anything more than documents, and I never got the feeling that that would be required from my application to ultimately be successfully processed. There is no firm timeline but it seems that all applications within the past 7 years are completed between 2 years and 4 years after you apply.  If you are famous, then you can possibly get everything finished within 1 year.