Tony M

I don't have any experience of this category of visa, but I aware that it is seemingly "designed' to make it virtually impossible for an applicant to qualify.  This paragraph is the important one :

 Where the application is for entry clearance, the applicant, or if the applicant is applying as a parent or grandparent, the applicant’s partner, must be unable to obtain the required level of care in the country where they are living, even with the financial help of the sponsor because either:

(a) the care is not available and there is no person in that country who can reasonably provide it: or

(b) the care is not affordable.

It is clear that they set the bar very high !

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

If you haven't already done so, please read the document linked below.

 

You only need to file a tax return, if you are tax resident AND if you have assessible income either above the threshold or such that you have to pay tax (you must decide whether to file or not in the case of the former.

 

If your remittances are from savings earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are exempt.

 

You do not need to submit evidence of anything until asked, same as in your home country.

 

 

Again, many thanks, Mike.

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If you have no assessible income, you do not need to file a return. The threshold is 60k or 120k based on the type  of income. There is even a question whether you need to file, if you have no tax to pay. If true, that could mean you could have assessable income of up to around 500k and still not have to file.

I thought it had been established that, if you are tax resident, then you must file a tax return. Is that not the case ?  My remittances are from savings, so are you saying that I do not need to file any tax return at all, and I don't need to submit any evidence of savings pre-1/1/24  unless asked sometime in the future  ?

52 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No! Just file your return and if the TRD has concerns or questions, answer them when they are asked.

Sorry, but I'm still confused. What information do I include on the form ?  Just zeros, as there is no assessable income ?

On 5/9/2024 at 6:37 AM, Mike Lister said:

I have read through the past few pages again and have tried to summarise some very fragmented and at times obscure explanations and make them understandable to everyone. I don't yet claim to have a 100% accurate or complete description but I think I'm nearly there, the following may be subject to change after others have reviewed and commented. 

 

The Tax Implications of Remittances

 

If you receive funds in Thailand, you must determine whether they represent assessable income or not. If they are assessable, you must report them on a tax return, subject to minimum threshold amounts. You are the only person who can do this because you are the only person who knows.

 

Similarly, if you remit funds to Thailand from overseas, to someone other than yourself, you must also determine if those funds are assessable and if they are, declare them on a tax return, subject to threshold amounts. Just because you remit funds to another person in Thailand and the money does not enter your bank account, does not mean those funds escape tax assessment.

 

For example, a remittance from your overseas account, to a Thai property developer, in order to buy property in Thailand, must still be assessed for Thai tax. If that remittance comprises exempt income, it does not need to be declared on a Thai tax return. But if it comprises taxable income, the money must be declared.

 

In a second example, funds that you remit to another person, from overseas, might be intended as a Gift, in which case, you do not need to report that Gift on a Thai tax return. However, the recipient of the Gift, may need to report the Gift and pay Gift Tax on the amount.

 

Along the same lines as the above, if somebody sends you money in Thailand, it may be deemed to be a Gift, which under Gift Tax rules is not assessable here, subject to the amounts involved. The Thai Revenue may require further details of that Gift to ensure it is genuine and not income disguised as a Gift.

 

As an over arching principle, the Thai Revenue does not care what the purpose is of the remitted funds, or their intended use. The Revenue is only interested in the amounts that you declare and what you say the source of those funds was, which you may need to prove, beyond doubt.

 

Mike, thank you for this. I apologise if this question has been asked before, but there is a lot of information to be looked though in this thread:

You, and others, have mentioned keeping records, and I have no problem with that.  When I need to submit  a tax return (P90, in my case), in early 2025, it will be a paper submission, based on remittances of savings in 2024, and based on the savings balance in my UK account at 31/12/23. So do I add a letter of explanation to the tax return (in English ?), and take it all along to the local tax office, along with all of the printouts, etc ?  Do I just put zeros in the "income" boxes on the form ?

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Independent of the noise maker, I know from "my" condominium that some people don't pay what they should pay. And as far as I know they can get away with such behavior until they try to sell their unit. It seems they can't sell it before all the bills from the building are paid.

And it seems some people let out their units through agents. The people who rent only know the agent. And when the condominium management asks the agent about the owners, they don't give that information.

Can the agent be made responsible for paying money which the owner much pay?

Can the (probably rent paying) people who live there be fined or thrown out?

It seems legally that situation is not so easy in Thailand.

 

 

 

The condo has a form of lawyers, on contract, for sure, to do all of their legal work.

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

I don't know if the management has the owner's names. But I am pretty sure sometimes the management does not have any contact details from owners. Bad management, bad records, new management, records get lost, people don't communicate, ...

Someone must know who the owner is. The owner, or the owner's agent, must pay fees to the condo each year, etc.  Who does City Hall send the bill for annual condo tax to ? Who pays the tax ?  The condo can pressure the owner or the agent, or take legal action, to get the owner to take action for payment, for noise under the Wrongful Acts legislation, or whatever.

Some people want to keep their passports while their application is considered. Mainly that would be applicants for "settlement" type visas, which can take several weeks to process.  Visit visa are being processed fairly quickly at the moment, so, unless you need it to use imminently, then it's best to leave it with VFS.

The passport does not go anywhere near the UKVI, and the UKVI do not need to see the passport.

The visa is not yet an e-visa, but that will happen sometime in the near future. For instance the Biometric Residence Card issued in the UK will soon be an e-card and not a credit card/ATM type of card.

Visa is stuck into the passport by VFS at the application centre, if issued by the UKVI decision-maker. It is then ready for collection or sending by EMS.

The applicant does not have to go back to the application centre to collect the passport, as VFS will "courier" it to the applicant's chosen address (for a fee, of course).

She would seem to have acouple of options. The most obvious option is to cut her holiday short, go back to UK now, and submit her FLR application before 30 April.

In theory she can make the application from Thailand, but she must be in UK to give biometrics. So, she could do the online stuff from here, and make an appointmemt  to give biometrics at a later date. Her problem, of course, is that she still has to be back in UK by the 30th April or she has no leave to remain or enter. The airline will refuse to carry her to UK without a valid Residence Permit.

If she doesn't enter the UK before 30th April, then I think she must start the whole visa application process again. And that means applying under the new rules regarding financial requirements and income.

That's how I see it.  I could be wrong.

Next week the tour bus company will be advertising "Our customers bought 'Keep You Safe' amulets at the temple tour !"  

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Correct

Many  thanks, Mike. You're doing a great job for us all !

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

 

If you are 100% certain that your income is exempt by virtue of a tax treaty (DTA), there is no need to include that income on a Thai tax return, simply because there does not appear to be anywhere to put such information at present (this may change as the forms are redesigned). If it helps you, I do exactly this with some income I receive from US SSc each year, instead I only report income from other countries which is not exempt. In the past, when I have sat with Revenue staff to enter my income details into their online system, they have ignored any reference to my DTA exempt income, albeit I have declared the income to them.

 

If by not reporting your DTA exempt income, that means you do not have enough assessable income to meet the reporting threshold and doesn't warrant filing a tax return, then don't (there is no penalty for not filing a return, when no tax is due). If later, the Thai Revenue asks you why you didn't file and queries your DTA exempt income, be prepared to prove your earlier belief regarding the DTA exemption. 

 

 

 

 

Understood. I am intending/hoping to use savings (accrued pre-1/1/24), which is obviously different from DTA exempt income ?  So, no need to "declare" anything at all because, as you say, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to declare it ?

On 3/30/2024 at 6:00 PM, Mike Lister said:

1. No, not necessary

 

2. Immigration don't require this, don't try and second guess what might happen, cross that bridge when you come to it.

Mike, re your  point 1 response. I have seen this, from a Thai law firm :
 

The new amendment to the Revenue Code in Thailand, which will come into effect on January 1, 2024, requires tax residents of Thailand to declare all of their overseas income, regardless of where it is earned. However, this does not necessarily mean that foreigners will have to pay more taxes in Thailand.

Under double taxation treaties (DTTs), Thailand has agreements with many countries to avoid double taxation on income. This means that if a foreigner is already paying taxes on their overseas income in another country, they may be exempt from paying taxes on that income in Thailand.

To take advantage of a DTT, foreigners will need to declare their overseas income to the Thai Revenue Department and provide documentation to prove that they have already paid taxes on that income in the other country.

Difference between declaring and paying taxes

Declaring taxes means reporting your income to the tax authorities. Paying taxes means actually remitting money to the government.

Under the new amendment to the Revenue Code, all tax residents of Thailand will be required to declare their overseas income, regardless of whether or not they are exempt from paying taxes on that income. However, foreigners who are exempt from paying taxes on their overseas income will not actually have to pay any taxes to the Thai government.

Doesn't that mean that a tax return must be submitted anyway ?

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

1. No, not necessary

 

2. Immigration don't require this, don't try and second guess what might happen, cross that bridge when you come to it.

Thank you for the clarification. And, yes, it's a bridge to be crossed sometime.

Can I ask for clarification on a couple of points :

I understand (I read on one of the threads) that savings overseas, prior to 1/1/24, will not be taxable when transferred into Thailand.  If that is so, and the savings are considerable, will it be necessary to file a tax return as it would not seem to be assessable income ?

If it is not necessary to file a tax return  under the above circumstances, and Immigration decides that they wish to see evidence of tax paid before granting an extension of stay, how will we evidence to Immigration that we didn't need to file a tax return as we had been transferring savings ?

I have asked my current MP (Labour) for his personal position and his party's position, on unfreezing pensions. He replied that his office would respond. That was almost a month ago, and I've heard nothing yet. Anyone know the current Labour Party position on this ?

Well, if the British Embassy either don't read this Q&A forum any longer, or just can't be bothered to respond, or don't care, can I suggest that they are removed from the forum. The only section of the British Consular Information that seems to be used is the Embassy's own trumpeting of their monthly "achievements".  I'm sure that the Embassy, as indeed seen during the covid crisis, don't actually care. One reason for this is that are not affected by any tax arrangements or agreements.  UK-based Embassy staff (diplomatic staff) are "exempt" from any Thai tax requirements, even their allowances for living in Thailand. Maybe we can ask them to transfer funds from the UK on our behalf, exempt from Thai tax regulations ? 

Hopefully, these are the paragraphs that apply to, and reassure, applicants for FLR and ILR who already hold entry clearance or are already in the UK (spouses, partners, etc) :

APP FM9.

After E-LTRP.3.4. insert:

“Transitional financial requirements for an applicant who made their first application as a fiancé(e), proposed civil partner or as a partner before 11 April 2024 and who was granted permission as a fiancé(e), proposed civil partner or as a partner on the five-year route to settlement as a result of that application

E-LTRP.3.5. A person who has permission as a partner on the fiveyear route to settlement, or as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner, at the date of application, must meet the transitional financial requirement at E-LTRP.3.7. if they made an application for entry clearance or permission to stay as a fiancé(e), proposed civil partner or partner under Appendix FM before 11 April 2024, which was successful.

E-LTRP.3.6. To fall within E-LTRP.3.5. the applicant must be applying for permission to stay with the same partner for which they were last granted permission. Those applying for permission to stay with a new partner must meet the financial requirement at E-LTRP.3.1. to E-LTRP.3.4.

E-LTRP.3.7.

The applicant must provide specified evidence, from the sources listed in paragraph E-LTRP.3.2., of: 

(a) a specified gross annual income of at least: (i) £18,600; (ii) an additional £3,800 for the first child; and (iii)an additional £2,400 for each additional child; alone or in combination with

(b) specified savings of: (i) £16,000; and (ii) additional savings of an amount equivalent to 2.5 times the amount which is the difference between the gross annual income from the sources listed in paragraph ELTRP.3.2.(a)-(f) and the total amount required under paragraph E-LTRP.3.7.(a); or

(c) the requirements in paragraph E-LTRP.3.3. being met, unless paragraph EX.1. applies.

In this paragraph “child” means a dependent child of the applicant or the applicant’s partner who is:

(a) under the age of 18 years, or who was under the age of 18 years when they were first granted entry under this route;

(b) applying for entry clearance or leave to remain as a dependant of the applicant or the applicant’s partner, or is in the UK with leave as their dependant;

(c) not a British Citizen, settled in the UK, or in the UK with valid limited leave to enter or remain granted under paragraph EU3 or EU3A of Appendix EU to these Rules; and

(d) not an EEA national with a right to be admitted to or reside in the UK under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2016.

E-LTRP.3.8. Where the financial requirement at E-LTRP.3.7. exceeds £29,000 due to the number of children in the family, the applicant will only need to provide evidence of a gross annual income of £29,000.

E-LTRP.3.9. The applicant must meet the accommodation requirement at E-LTRP.3.4.

It is confusing. The way to work it out is :

29,000 x 2.5 and then add 16,000.

This is, of course, to meet the requirement solely on cash savings.

3 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

if ever a reply is given, expect it to be along the lines of "taxation in Thailand is a matter for the Thai revenue department, refer to them".

 

Of ourse it is, but I'm not asking the Embassy to try to get the legislation off the books. I'm asking for more clarification of the legislation as it applies to British citizen tax residents in Thailand. Just like the Swiss Embassy did.

6 minutes ago, CanadaSam said:

As usual, complete idiots. 

 

There was absolutely NO problem with beach road being two way, yes, traffic was slow because people were admiring the sights, but you had the option of simply going one street over to the second road (or Theppraya road, dunno what they call it) if you wanted to get wherever you're going faster!

 

 

I think that, maybe, you don't know why they have done this ? They will digging up all along that stretch on the beach-side of the road, to make new parking and to put in some pipes to clear water, so the road will be arounf haof the current width.  I did hear that parking metres will be coming too, but not sure if that is true !