MrWorldwide

Second Road near Central - plenty of smiles in the back of the baht buses despite the odd drenching

Hard getting decent action shots when there was so much ice-cold water being hurled everywhere.

I realise that we dont want 15 Songkran threads, but in the interests of keeping the photos in one thread and not making life any more painful for those accessing TV from a phone or tablet, I'm hoping the mods will indulge me here. I'll keep this to two or three photos per post as no-one wants to see a huge slab of photos quoted in a reply.

Monday April 13, ~2:30pm

Soi 7 was the last place I would have ridden a motorbike ...

Everything I saw was good-natured - hopefully that will remain the case.

funny how you arm chair detectives come to conclusions, it was a head-on collision, i could walk 50 yards from my condo and see many motor bike taxis, riding on the "wrong " side of the road , against opposing traffic, so how can you judge, or perhaps you were all there and witnessed it, (yep thought so,no you wern't, probably wrapped up in bed with your cup of cocoa, you are all guessing again

-Hence my 'benefit of the doubt' comment ....the TV way is to lynch someone based on the first report submitted by a Thai on the back of a motorbike, desperate for some kind of eyewitness account. Not gonna change anytime soon - we just like lynching people. That said, if he was drunk it woulldnt have improved either of their chances even if the motosai rider WAS on the wrong side of the road - all pure speculation based on nothing more than the near misses I see every single day. Thai men, in particular, seem to have absolute confidence in their own reflexes and those of everyone else around them on the road - totally misplaced IMO,

People that live in the Pattaya area should have no reason to defend themselves against the OP, if he does not like it good for him/her. He has started 15 meaningless threads in 50 posts total

yes, but the thread is yet another occasion to tell the small-minded about the many good reasons to live in Pattaya

I'm not small minded, besides you guys who live there and the people who go there each year for the beer and hookers, most others have a very negative opinion of Pattaya. I know this is ill informed, and that's why I asked. But you can't deny Pattaya's reputation. For example, I'm an expat in Phnom Penh and there's a huge fear among expats there of people coming over from Pattaya to Cambodia.

I know Pattaya is much more complex than what people make it out to be, that's why I'm interested in it and asked this question. If I was small minded I would've just written it off, like 99% of people do. I appreciate the good side of Pattaya too, and thanks for the responses.

Right, and if I wanted to peddle stereotypes I might post that I heard most of the expats in PP were either heroin addicts, failed entrepreneurs or Svay Pak predators on the run from the law in several countries. Many of those who 'fear' Pattaya refugees seem to have spent plenty of time here indulging in the same vices - what they really fear is that the same malaise will spread to the Khmer population of Pnomh Penh, prices going up while attitudes plummet. If some of the bitching on various forums is accurate, that process may already be underway.

As an illustration, the standard rate for company in 2010 was 30USD and the two contractors I engaged during my time in PP were both very happy with that. The next time I checked it was 45USD and I'm now being told that 'skilled contractors' are charging 60USD, more than many here are prepared to pay a local contractor for an overnight job. As with anything in that industry, you tend to get what you paid for (sometimes not even that), but if the stereotype of a Pattaya refugee is a rabid cheap charlie lured by the promise of 50 cent Happy Hour beers and cheap companionship, perhaps it will be a lot more of the former and considerably less of the latter. I shudder to think what the PP equivalent of Coconut Bar is, but then I shudder when i think of Pattaya's Coconut Bar .....

I dont think the PP 'elite' (the aforementioned stereotypes, anyway) have a great deal to fear from your average old bloke looking for a change of scenery. We're an erudite, well travelled group with a wide variety of interests - dont judge a book by it's cover

From the photo you can see why a wall like this collapsed. Lego may have been stronger.

OK - I laughed - but apparently they've realised the error of their ways and will be taking a completely different approach when they rebuild the wall.

http://www.hasbro.com/playdoh/en_US/

They seem to have started at the front of Made in Thailand but I didnt see anyone with chalk on their face. Copped a single squirt from a Farang with a kids water pistol - none of the industrial jobbies anywhere to be seen - and that was it. Saw no sign of any water in New Plaza earlier and the bars looked as dead as I've ever seen them - granted it was early - but the restaurants seemed to be doing well when I returned at around 8:30pm, particularly Leng Kee on Klang - always seems to get plenty of Thai families in when there is something to celebrate.

I know that's far too early in the night to be making a call re the bars, but the rain earlier in the day has bought the temperature right down and it just didnt seem like drinking weather to me : bailed after a couple of beers. Saw a few groups of Indian men on the way back who looked considerably worse for wear - couldn't say whether they were homesick for their own Holi Festival or just young guys getting pissed, but it was unusual for that stage of the evening. Onward and upward.

That's something for Prayut and his mates.........bring back Songkran to the original dates of 13, 14 and 15 April.......PERIOD!!!

<deleted>......start on the 11th and finish on the 19th!!!

Nothing to do with Prayut - short of closing the bars I dont see how he could stop the madness that is confined to a single city. A city which just happens to consider corruption a virtue - money talks, joe, simple as that.

Have the number of Chinese increased in the past couple of days? I mean are there even more right now? Are numbers expected to fall back at the end of Songkran or is this a nightmare without end?

Why would numbers magically drop off after Songkran ? No shortage of Chinese and Korean tourists here right through low season 2014 - there seem to be more tour buses now, but many are half-empty.

I wont even ride a motorbike here -

1. its dangerous trying to ride a motorbike sober

2. when I've had a few I'm sure I'd forget all about point 1.

Seriously, if there is one thing that the nanny states we've come from finally got right it was cracking down on drink drivers and its way overdue in Thailand. If the OP needs any help packing, I'll also volunteer my services.

Luxfare, that fits the description of a bloke I just saw running down Buakhow with a water pistol and a pair of safety goggles shouting 'I'll &lt;deleted&gt; kill you ALLLLLLL !'

Hallelujah - USPS is finally giving me something of value:

April 10, 2015 , 2:24 pm

Processed Through Sort Facility

ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)

OP: I was referring to Thai Muslim who were a large proportion of the local population and in some areas still are. Over on the 'Dark Side' much of the land and shop houses are owned by some Thai Muslim families though they do not display their wealth. In the reverse quite extensive poverty.

Again as a bit of background info many of the beach businesses such as umbrella / chair rentals are owned by local Thai Muslims; many are licensed beach massage ladies. Motorbike taxi drivers etc, etc. In addition there are a number of Thai Muslim local politicians.

OK - my mistake - I've seen a few at Big C extra wearing the hijab or the Malay-style hat but I cant say I've seen many elsewhere here.

Might be time to restate the central point I tried to make in my OP:

Songkran will need to be a complete turnaround for many of the bars and restaurants in this town to keep their doors open beyond May 2015 IMO.

Whether the root cause of that downturn is currency fluctuations or rising prices - or a combination of the two - my point was that I just dont grasp how many of these businesses have lasted this long. Even last night, when I thought there were a few more punters around, if I took photos of the people in the bars in central Pattaya and photoshopped out the Thais working there, they would have been very sparsely populated. I understand that the town has changed and no-one is immune from inflation, but the impact of a very strong baht in the wake of the greenback's resurgence seems to have reined in a lot of our 'disposable' income. I guess those still here in May can either laugh or grimace at this post - assuming it isnt simply another long forgotten prediction to add to the thousands made for Pattaya's future over the years

Coming down so hard this afternoon I cant even hear the DVD I'm trying to watch ...

Too soon for 3rd Road, but they should be at it on Soi 7/8 this afternoon - just dont expect numbers to be anything like previous years. Still, NYE surprised me after a fairly tame December so I guess anything is possible. Might also pay to check out Drinking Street later this evening - I'm not a fan of their prices but my Thai associates assure me that it can be bigger than anything at this end of town during Songkran,

Was at my Embassy earlier this year, and they told me, we don't know how this gonna end but all the figures about export,tourism and whatever that happy dude announces they are all made up.

I assume those people know a little more than us.

When they can give me a reliable estimate of the size of the cash economy in this country, and show me the methodology used in arriving at that figure, I'll take the stats more seriously. That said, I believe exported goods and passenger arrivals can both be reliably counted : whether we're presented with the actual data is a question for the people at the top in Bangkok. Markets respond to those numbers, regardless of their authenticity, so I guess there is a case for continuing to present a sunny-side-up picture of the economy.

I was just in Big C South Pattaya. All the tables that use to sell souvenirs near the food court are gone. So is the booth selling wine. Not enough tourists???

Can't post a link, but take a look at the article in the Bangkok Post today: Teflon Thailand starts to flake

Interesting comment from the lady working in the car dealership.

Thanks Craig - I'll chase up a copy when I go to get my morning (!) coffee. I suspect that alarm bells are ringing in various quarters - the General sounded as defensive as any elected politician I've ever heard in his last televised address - but its the people at the bottom of the pyramid who are going to really feel the pain when the myth of full employment really starts to unravel. Interesting times ahead.

OP: An issue you have not mentioned.

I personally know a number of Pattaya born Thais who suffer from poverty. In fact, via my wife, I have helped out some who were desperate for cash to pay off black market loans they had incured to pay for things such as school uniforms and better access to medical care from places such as Red Cross Hospital in Sri Racha (many do not trust Banglamung govt hospital for serious illness). Black money is a major curse in Thailand and contributes to the overall level of street crime, many stay deeply in debt for year upon year just to cater for family requirements.

As an aside you probably know the aged pension for those who worked in the cash society is about 700 baht a month, thus putting further pressure on the household budget.

I do know that endemic use of YaBa contributes to a great deal of street crime, you can guess who mainly controls the distribution in Pattaya to street level gangs.

Excellent point, and you may have filled in a massive gap in my understanding of the resident Thai population here. I know its a stereotype but I tend to assume that most Chinese Thais are relatively well off financially : logic says that there must be a percentage of that population which isnt doing so well, but I ignored them. Whatever the stats say, there also has to be a segment of the population born here to parents from outside Chonburi province and for whatever reason they've remained in Pattaya. Perhaps someone who can read Thai and has access to the data from the last census might be able to do a better job than this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattaya#Demographics

I also admit I dont have any figures on drug abuse in Pattaya - only anecdotal evidence that its a growing problem, but that's the line the tabloid media pushes so I'll leave it there. If I had to give an estimate of the number of sex workers I've encountered with a physical and mental dependence on alcohol to get through an average day, it would be in the region of 50% : that's a staggering number of people in a city like Pattaya. I dont need to breath-test every motorbike rider in Pattaya to know that this town consumes more than its fair share of alcohol - the wholesaler near me is constantly loading and unloading vehicles from their cramped Klang warehouse and the karaoke bars downstairs are still going strong well after the Farang bar contingent have left for the night.

On your other point, I didnt even know there *was* an aged pension in Thailand - I just assumed the rest of the family was responsible for mama and papa in their old age. All extra pressure to send money home, and I'm left wondering how much of that money is still finding its way back to Isaan in 2015.

Pattaya has changed in the last 50 years from a village to a town to a city and a pretty big city at that. It's a city designed; in the main; to attract tourists and it does seem to do a decent job of it. There are drawbacks, sure, but many positives too. It's a personal choice that people make about whether the positives outweigh the negatives and they can only gain a true perspective by visiting or living in the place, not by reading newspaper reports or even posts on an internet forum.

I take your point champers - I've lived here for the past 12 months and was a regular visitor for 18 years before that, so this isnt exactly my first rodeo. I spend a lot of time on the alleged 'mean streets' in central Pattaya at night but I dont go looking for trouble and thankfully it hasnt come looking for me, at least not yet. When it comes to trying to point out why Pattaya may be facing issues in 2015 and why I fear things could get worse, I readily admit that I dont have the perspective of someone who has been here for 20+ years, but I imagiine that many of those folks currently live their lives well away from the nightlife strip - always happy to hear otherwise. I readily admit that my post is based on way too much speculation, but at the other end of that we have the steady stream of negative publicity from the likes of PattayaOne and other news agencies happy to plaster photos of blood-soaked foreigners all over their site for the world to see. I also wanted to be able to refer some of the serial 'Pattaya is a dreadful place' posters to some of the reasons why I believe we have problems with violent crime without having to repeat my somewhat contrived arithmetic.

OK - out from around 7 to midnight tonight (April 11) and the only place where the sidewalks showed signs of any water throwing were that bar on Beach Road (I think someone said it's called Poppy's) and in front of a few bars on Soi 7 but you wouldnt know it looking at the staff and customers. One of the day shift girls was still there at 8:30 and she had clearly been soaked through - the rest either bought a change of clothes or as one girl put it 'I stay in room - stupid people !' .... if they were throwing water on other Sois, I didnt see anyone with wet clothes or chalk on their faces back on Second Road or in Made in Thailand.

For all that, there was a sense that a few more people may landed in town for the weekend - nothing even vaguely resembling NYE but a definite improvement on the previous fortnight or so. If this does prove to be a bumper Songkran per the images from previous years, there must be a hell of a lot of people yet to make the trek down Sukhumvit Rd. We'll see what the 12th brings.

I cant believe anyone on this forum is gullible enough to believe that any of the convicted criminals actually said they were sorry for hurting the country's image and the tourism sector. Seriously ? Can you imagine those words coming from crims in your own countries ? At best, it was a prepared statement but I'm inclined to believe the media was fed that sentence and dutifully played along.