MrWorldwide

I have to admit - UT and NK dont seem terribly exciting until you've spent a few days in VT - suddenly, crossing back into Thailand seems like an adventure !

_{More expensive and plumper, you say ? Hmm - I think that's a different *kind* of 'chicken' .....}

_{(full marks to the Indonesians for using 'ayam' to refer to both chicken and working girls : is it really any different to calling them 'birds' ?)}

I just wont be throwing ping-pong balls to Isaan's finest .....

Are you the new ball boy for the Kalasin Police Olympic Table Tennis Team mate? Cool!

We are still looking for a mascot. Needs to be a sober type and happy to hang out with the girls in the change room before and after matches - volunteers ?

Rather than listen to armchair economists, how about doing the math and decide whether you can withstand the turbulence of the markets and f/x, homeownership.

You raise an excellent point.

When choosing to leave the UK as a permanent resident, I looked at various options and criteria as to where to settle.

My criteria for retireing is

1) Warm

2) Friendly locals

3) Low cost living

4) Self suffieciency

5) Rimping Supermarket (Just kidding)

Thailand is my view beats Malaysia, personally I find Malaysia very expensive but attractive. If Thailand become en-par with Malaysia then it is time for a serious review although I would miss my friends made here and my lovely home.

I have no plans to leave just yet, but always looking to leave if the F/X continues to decline to silly levels against the pound.

If 'Malaysia' began and ended with KL, I would agree with you. Fortunately, it doesnt - for a teetotaller with no immediate plans to buy property, I consider the Butterworth-Ipoh corridor well worth further investigation : all I have to do is *become* a teetotaller !

OK - apologies - I retract my earlier comment.

Neversure, I support your impending move to Mexico and I look forward to receiving regular updates on how your life pans out over there. Hell, I'd even drive you to the airport if it was within my power to do so - Bon Voyage !

Edit: can we hook homeownership up with a visa, too ? Thanks.

Is Cambodia the way to go for us Brits?

Given that there are only about 10 thread discussing that exact topic, I would have thought someone would have definitive answer by now. Other than (local) food, beer and working girls, I didnt encounter anything in PP that was cheaper than Thailand - if they have to import it, you can guarantee that you will pay dearly for it, and the same in Vientiane. If you can live like a local, I would need to see side-by-side costings of the advantages of living in a city like Pnomh Penh over staying put in Nakhon Nowhere, particularly if said NN is a reasonably short distance from BKK.

the problem with Thailand is that there are to many Farangs trying to impose the laws of there respective countrys

of course prices are rising like every other country .things never stay the same. the only thing that bugs me is this smog.

I only wish someone with the power to do so will resolve it. Thailand is a beautiful country, as also most of the people

The only way to enforce LA-style smog laws would be to start with LA-style money

If you think Bangkok is bad, you need to spend a week in Jakarta - that's a city where the people responsible for the infrastructure have simply thrown their arms in the air and left the city to it's own devices. Beijing, Shanghai and several other Chinese cities also have massive problems in this area : difficult to imagine how these cities can continue to absorb exponential growth rates. BKK, IMO, is on the brink of becoming an unsustainable city - Jakarta has been there for at least 10 years. The upside for those looking to relocate to Cambo is that the traffic is a fraction of BKK's - the downside is that many drive/ride as though it's their last day on earth, and the roads (even in PP) are a joke.

Does it come natural or did you take lessons to talk such rubbish? It's got nothing to do with being hateful or feeling superior, it's just plain economics. I've been coming here since 1966 and love the place and have spent a lot of money here over the years. I'm just an ordinary working guy so the stronger the baht gets combined with the weakening pound the harder things get for me, and incidentally the small businesses, bars, guesthouses etc who depend on people like me. Ask the ordinary Thais what they think of it, believe me they're struggling with the lack of westerners here these days.

Really ? The Thais working in factories around Chonburi or offices above Suk are struggling due to a lack of Westerners ?

To answer the OP because many are not wearing rose glass's and are not fooled by the hub of idiotic corrupt ministers saying all is fine no need to panic, Thalland will not be affected by "...." insert any major event here.

Thailand is still very much a developing 3rd World Country whatever some people believe, the Baht is subjected to massive Currency inflows from Country’s that are about to experience financial mayhem (whatever some believe)

Thailand has one of the highest interest rates in Asia ...hence money looking for a home with reasonable return is flooding into Thailand...if you think this is not going to go bang well good for you; I know where My money will be and it is not sitting in the Thai stock market or Thai banks.

Too many people living here a couple of months/years view Thailand as a 1st World state, all I will say is yes it’s a state in fact it’s a mess

You are entitled to your views, as I am so lets see how it plays out, it will be very clear in the next couple of years

Terry, I'm not going to argue with anything you have raised, and it's not about rose-colored glasses at all. I dont deny that many aspects of the way Thailand is run should be different, but they aren't - moreover, nothing I do or say will make a sliver of difference to the way the game is going to play out. As for your timeline, the posts I've seen dont want it to happen over a 'couple of years' - they want it to happen within the next two months !

Let's look at major impacts on the Thai economy over the last 20 or so years

- Thailand recovered from the '91 coup and subsequent instability, including the Red Shirt protest

- Thailand recovered from the tsunami and the bird flu

- Thailand recovered from devastating floods in the North

- Thailand, admittedly with help from the World Bank, recovered from the last currency crisis

If I see a problem with any of the above trashing the Thai economy in 2013, it's the capacity of the West to loan money or provide financial aid in the event of another disaster, but how many corporations are going to walk away from Thailand's infrastructure, location and manpower advantages ? Would China ignore such an opportunity ? They are pouring billions into complete banana republics all over the Pacific - why not a few more billion into Thailand ?

Even if they did, and left Thailand a basketcase similar to Cambodia, do we really want to holiday in a country where a large proportion of the population has to resort to begging or crime to survive ? Worse, how many want to live in such a country ? Thailand may not be perfect, but spend a week in Cambo and you soon realise how much you took for granted in a city like Bangkok or even Pattaya. For those who do want Cambo, last time I checked there were still several flights a day to PP - no need to leave Thailand a smouldering ruin in the wake of your departure.

Warren Rodwell's cost of living skyrocketed when his captors kidnapped him and demanded a ridiculously high ransom. Cant say I'm a fan of the Abu Sayif diet ....

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/rodwell-released-by-islamic-militant-captors-in-the-philippines/story-e6frg6nf-1226603960373

Rodwell infamously told his wife that he 'could handle himself' shortly before his capture roughly 15 months ago - I wonder if he feels the same level of bravado now.

I posted something on a (non-Thai based) forum month's ago to the extent that 'Greece reportedly had it coming - they have mismanaged their economy' - the post was deleted and I received a warning from a moderator. AFAIK, very few on that forum had any connection to Greece, but clearly that is the level of political correctness on some boards. I come to TV and find people salivating at the prospect of the Thai economy imploding - you'll forgive me if I see that as something more than 'doomsaying' or whatever. It's pathetic, pure and simple, particularly when the US and UK both face problems which have nothing to do with Thailand.

Ive read many of these threads on this section of the forum and i haven't see any predicting there will be a 1997 style crash, anytime soon.

Well done for making that up.

PS But I will go all out and predict at some point in the future there will be a crash of 1997 proportions in Thailand, im just not saying exactly when.

PPS I have seen far more inflation in Thailand then in England since 2008 after all the printing thats gone on in the UK, and as the saying goes "inflation is the mother and father of unemployment".

I didn't make it up, and it might be time you re-read those threads. The prediction that it's all going to end in tears runs through each and every thread currently running on the baht or the THB-GBP exchange rate, and it was mentioned earlier in this thread that many expats see similar precursors in place to '97. Crystal balls are free, but it's the glee with which many seem to regard the prospect of a crash which prompted me to start this thread - if you dont like it, feel free to join the aforementioned doomsday threads.

Its not carved in stone that Bule *have* to drink in the bars on Jl P Ramlee, but I tend to find myself there everytime I visit KL. On one such trip, I found myself chatting to another Aussie - he was fresh form several months in PI and told me about his 'farewell party' - all up, the equivalent of 200 AUD paid for everything.

He obviously liked the bar we were in, but I could only smile and nod when he said '200 dollars goes nowhere here !'. Granted, those clubs are the equivalent of Kings Cross in Sydney, but it still comes as a bit of a shock when almost everything else in Malaysia is so cheap. I'd love to know what the owners are pulling down each year, even with the astronomical rents that must go with a location like that. At least they have the good grace to sell beer by the pint !

el jefe, on 23 Mar 2013 - 21:05, said:

"Personally, I'm all for a correction and a stable baht somewhere around 30-31 US cents,... "

That's 3.3 baht to the dollar.

I know what the OP meant when he wrote this, but if the US govt keeps running trillion dollar deficits and if we live long enough, that's what we'll get.

I'd love to see a "stable" USD/THB rate above 30 but, unfortunately, those idiot Thais are doing a better job at running their govt and economy than the brilliant Americans and Europeans.

Doh - I meant 30-31 baht to the dollar - I'll try to edit that OP - apologies to all for that little gem. (Looks like I'm too late - I'll just have to grin and bear it)

Current system is entirely dysfunctional.

I am a self funded retiree well under 50. For me there is NO visa.

I am currently on a student visa in Phuket, but that is now also entirely unworkable.

I am off to Cambo next year to establish another residence with an easy visa option.

Then I will just get VOA to come over to Thailand to surf.

Anyway if Thailand does not want to provide a visa for a young self made millionaire like myself...no problem...it is not the only country in the world with beaches and pretty girls...

I am outa here once my current visa extension expires...

I have Thai immigration burnt out....

Seriously - you have all that money and prefer Thailand to Indonesia for surfing ?? I'm sure its easier to beat the crowds in remote parts of Thailand, but there are still so many parts of Indonesia that haven't made it into the magazines. I know only too well the extent to which surfing can completely rule your life, but if I was going to pick a country to spend 'x' months of the year surfing, it wouldn't be Thailand. I might be too old for those coral reefs, but serious surf nazis consider the risks well worth it and I expect that you've met quite a few of them. I could find 50 guys at any decent Australian break, any day of the week, who would gladly swap places with you - I'm gobsmacked that you have a single care in the world. Forget Thai immigration, just get out there and surf every wave on the planet.

I think you'll find that many of we longer foreign residents here in Thailand, retired, working or bushiness operators are concerned when we see the same group of names and people who were closely involved in the 1997 meltdown involved in this current financial scene.

We lived through some challenging times, although for many of us it didn't hurt us, however we who have family ties here ( no pun intended) did see suffering in our family network and in fact around us in general.

Remember also that a number of us had and no doubt in many case also have recently experienced tumultuous financial tempests in our countries of origin or the countries where our investments and banking was or is carried out. hence the concern shown.

It is not a desire to see a failure of the financial system but a desire to see a properly regulated financial system in place, when one views the events elsewhere in the world of finance you can realise why there are fears regarding the current financial situation here.

We see the current situation in Cyprus which proves yet again in reality no sovereign state is in reality in control of its financial destiny, bankers, insurance companies and wealthy individuals etc control the movements of currency not governments.

We all want a settled stable economy, the current situation is in my view and many others too not as stable as one would wish to see, old experiences come back to haunt us, hence the ringing of those alarm bells.

Thank you. I was about to put my hip boots on, but you pretty much cleared things up.Using the hate card or "simple as that" and wishing a "good dose of poverty" on someones family to see it my way,is very shallow thinking. Thankfully I don't have any financial concerns,but will not totally dismiss others as being greedy lesser people when they voice their opinions.

I believe it goes well beyond people 'voicing their opinions' - IMO, it's the kind of malevolent bitterness normally reserved for religious and racist extremists. Worst of all, it's completely and utterly futile - Farang have no means of changing the political or financial system in Thailand, short of petitioning their own governments to enact trade sanctions or something equally ludicrous.

Let's take a step back for a moment and look at the situation in one of the few developed countries currently able to boast a robust banking system and something resembling 'economic growth' - mine. If you follow the news, you will know that our federal government is currently doing its level best to hand power to the Opposition before the September election, and there is talk of a vote of 'no confidence' in the government. Just as I had no say in the original leadership spill that put out country in this crazy position, my lone vote in September wont make the slightest bit of difference to the result - we all know who the new government will be, and we all know how much money they will spend trying to roll back things like the carbon tax. The answer, IMO, is a benevolent dictatorship, but most dictators seem more Idi Amin than Lee Kuan Yew ... God knows Oz will dearly need the latter when we can no longer sell dirt and coal.

If I let it get to me, I expect it would end on the lawn outside Parliament House with an assault rifle and some tasty international news coverage, but I choose to let it slide. No amount of wishing is going to change Canberra, and I feel much the same way about Thailand, Indonesia and China. If the latter can achieve the numbers they do with that many hands in the till, imagine how frighteningly competitive they would be if they ever changed the culture and the numbers reflected actual productivity ? I expect that unemployed Spanish folk would agree that it's better to have corruption and jobs than corruption and no jobs.

But even if the nutters *were* right, what possible joy would they take from seeing Thailand's economy slide down the plughole ? It just boggles my tiny mind - one of the few countries that puts a smile on my face (regardless of the frustrations) and the haters want to see Thailand reduced to something more akin to Cambodia or PI, presumably because they think that will make them 'Masters of the Universe' once more. It's just messed up - go to India if you want to find yourself surrounded by people without a pot to p*ss in.

There's a lot of fake economic opinion on this thread.

The Japanese Yen has dropped significantly because the new government has made it clear that it wants a weaker Yen and is replacing the BOJ management with government supporters (a bad move for independence) who will start printing more money.

Asian currencies with some major exceptions have risen relative to the US$ & this includes the Baht. The US$ has risen against the other major world currencies - Yen, Euro, Stg - because of serious weaknesses in Japan, EU & UK.

China is NOT in any big trouble. It's currency is relatively stable and it's exports have dropped due to recessions in its major markets. It has successfully boosted internal consumption which allows decent growth, slightly less than the 9-10% before. It is amazing that some people can't see beyond the old 'reds under the bed' syndrome & open the other eye to see that China has adopted a mixed system of communism & capitalism quite successfully. it is constantly improving and just like turning around a 200,000 tonne tanker, is taking time in improving the lot of 1.3Bn people.

Currency inflows into Thailand take advantage of arbitrage. Investors get a higher interest rate in government bonds than they would in the US, UK & EU. This is not permanent money and will be withdrawn when investors find another currency with a better yield, whereupon the Baht will drop. It seems that the BOT recognises this and is taking no action.

Excellent response +1 for pointing out on the fake economic opinion on this thread.

Sadly, its not just this thread - you will find wild speculative opinion thrown around as 'fact' in every recent thread on the baht, particularly those which revolve around the ability of expat retirees on fixed incomes to continue visiting beer bars till the wee hours. Personally, I like beer bars, but I'm not going to go into a tailspin if I can only go two nights instead of the usual six.

Just try to get a tourist visa to get into Oz without being able to demonstrate to Immigration that you have sufficient funds to support you during your stay. I have never been pulled aside anywhere in Asia and asked to show Immigration my bank balance - never.

Has anyone lived in Panama and can compare with Thailand ?

Isn't there an entire thread dedicated to other potential retirement destinations ? Not sure if its here or in the SE Asia forum.