MrWorldwide

@BLJ, thanks very much but don't be telling people I made a good impression, you're ruining my carefully constructed internet persona of being a blethering pain in the ass

I have good news - very good news ....

I only get mad when *I* have to speak to another expat / tourist. Particularly another Australian.

Denizen, I don't find it particularly 'enlightening' that the other two sectors employ more people than manufacturing : Ford and others wouldn't build highly automated factories if they still had to employ half the province just to get cars out the door ...

Those '21st century' factories are actually in Thailand's favour - without that level of investment, what would stop the corporations moving their production to Vietnam or Bangladesh simply to take advantage of cheaper labour costs ? That is exactly what some of the Chinese companies are doing - abandoning their own labour force in favor of other countries. Interesting times ahead.

CarlBKK, I need to apologise to the board for the tone of that post - it came out a little more aggressively than I might have liked - but I stand by the guts of it. As you say, one some higher-end gear it may well be cheaper to fly to Singapore, but I get really annoyed at claims that arent backed up with specifics (hence the Ayre in my own post). I've seen similar BS repeated on Singapore-based boards by young guys who have zero firsthand experience to back their claims that 'Singapore is much cheaper !'.

One niche where I think I *can* get a bargain elsewhere is headphones and headphone amps, but I'm not going to Tokyo just for audio - I want to see the sights and experience something other than shopping malls, even if they do seem to be an Aladdin's Cave of every headphone I've ever lusted after. The Japanese also have gear that is sold nowhere else, and that will be interesting. Expensive destination, but you only live once

According to Wikipedia, agriculture has declined as a percentage of GDP in line with the rise of manufacturing, but service industries (tourism and finance mainly) still represent a large chunk of GDP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_economy

Some might grumble about Wikipedia - happy to see other links.

I guess a lot of the cynicism is based on the old chestnut that 'the best way to make a small fortune in Thailand is to start with a large one !' Sadly, many small business owners in Australia could probably trot out the same line, but I suspect that the reasoning is different.

The Thai people, we are told, are a jealous and duplicitous bunch who will conspire to drag down any Farang who dares to stick his/her head above the throng and try to make any real money in Thailand. This starts, of course, with Immigration Officers and culminates in all manner of theft and treachery from competitors and staff alike, until the hapless Farang is forced to sell the business for considerably less than it cost. In the most extreme case, the trip home is in a casket - that seems to be an occupational hazard for bar owners, but you'd have to ask those who have lived in Thailand for a few decades if it can happen to hotel owners. Hopefully, it's rare.

Ultimately, in the grand scheme of things, I would think that the scorn of a few old Farang pales into insignificance next to imminent financial ruin and even death at the hands of such nasty and vindictive locals. The people you should most fear are those who *do* want to pat you on the back - in addition to their other evil qualities, Thais are completely two-faced and will stab you in the back at the first opportunity.

You dont have to take my word for any of this - just tune into a Thai soap sometime. You dont even have to speak Thai - the quality of the acting is that good. I expect that you will learn a great deal about the Thai personality from just 30 minutes worth of one of these dramatic opuses. I even had a GF who was prepared to re-enact the scene where the psychotic matriarch goes after the hero with a knife - man, that WAS a night to remember !

(OP, if you havent guessed by now, the above is tongue-in-cheek, but its pretty close to the warnings doled out by expats in Thailand on a daily basis. I'm only a weekend warrior, but I wonder how much research you did before embarking on such a risky business venture in another country ? I suspect that you will need a little more than management experience and a working knowledge of MYOB ..)

Bangkokburning, did you actually read the intro to that earlier post of mine ?

I also admit to being mystified by the fact that the red shirt madness didn't hurt the baht appreciably, but as someone pointed out on another forum the ports continued to function as normal - tourism took a hit, but manufacturing didn't.

I'm including 'agriculture' in the manufacturing - produce still has to be packaged and shipped. Unless, of course, it's extremely perishable and needs to be flown to a country like Japan ASAP - in which case, the yellow-shirt blockade would have impacted that particular export. Blockade Bangkok's ports and I wonder how long the powers that be would allow that to continue ?

The World Bank has this 'crystal ball' of the Thai economy in 2013 - a lot more current than the Wikipedia page

• Real GDP in 2012 is projected to grow by 4.7 percent. It is supported mainly by household consumption and investments as part of flood rehabilitation and the government’s consumption-stimulating measures.
• The economy is projected to grow by 5 percent in 2013 as manufacturing production fully recovers from the floods and the global economy sees a modest recovery.
• Exports in 2013 are expected to grow by 5.5 percent in US dollar terms, compared to only 3.6 percent in 2012. Domestic demand, particularly in investments, will continue its momentum from this year as foreign direct investment (FDI) rises sharply
• The main challenge in 2013 for Thailand’s growth continues to be the high uncertainty in global economic prospects, particularly related to the Eurozone crisis. To improve growth in the long-term, Thailand should prioritize skills development and the need to reduce inequalities in incomes and human development outcomes.
• Government spending could be prioritized from short-term stimulus programs and very costly ones like the paddy pledging scheme to long term development programs which targets lower income and vulnerable groups and also helps to reduce regional disparities

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/12/19/thailand-economic-monitor-december-2012-key-findings

Whether we agree with that report or not, it was written by people who are paid to look at numbers and make predictions, presumably based on some sort of past performance. Until someone here offers to pay me for my predictions, I'm going to go with a coin toss : heads Thailand, tails Indonesia. Life just got a whole lot simpler

I also admit to being mystified by the fact that the red shirt madness didn't hurt the baht appreciably, but as someone pointed out on another forum the ports continued to function as normal - tourism took a hit, but manufacturing didn't. So i went looking for signs that the floods may have hurt the baht. Nope. Yellow shirt blockade at Swampy ? Possibly - see the chart below and make your own conclusions.

Nov, 2008 - yellow shirts blockade Suvarnabhumi airport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Alliance_for_Democracy#Seizure_of_Suvarnabhumi_International_Airport

From 2009 on, the baht surged against the USD and has remained in a narrow band since.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=THB&to=USD&view=5Y

Mar-May 2010 : red shirts protest / riot in central BKK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_political_protests

2010 floods cause ~1.7billion USD damage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_floods

2011 floods cause another 1.5billion USD damage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Thailand_floods

One very resilient currency - I'll leave it to the board economists to explain how the baht can stay so strong through every disaster listed above, with the possible exception of the yellow shirt blockade. I accept that the Fed has printed an awful lot of new USD over the last 5 years, but it remains an exceptionally good outcome for the baht. Possibly a more interesting question is this : if you wanted to get the attention of Thailand's money men, which would you opt for : a protest in central BKK or a blockade way out at the airport ?

Thank God they reopened DM

The AUD lost a cent on the USD overnight - currently a little over 1.02. its actually being greeted with some optimism here, but I wonder if the damage has already been done. Several iconic Aussie brands have been sunk by the high dollar over the last couple of years, and for what ? So that Aussie tourists can buy another fake handbag or stay in a slightly better hotel ? Those who have bought real estate in Asia (or the US) probably see it very differently, but it has been a double-edged sword and I believe it would be even more so for Thailand if the baht mae them uncompetitive.

Given that our dollar has pogoed between parity and 1.05 USD for the last couple of years (usually in response to waves of fear and loathing in the US over govt attempts to get things back on track), and the PM has gone on record saying that we may have to live with a high dollar for several more years, a one cent drop doesnt upset me, Anything above 25 baht to the dollar would keep me on track for my plans in 2014 - anything resembling 21 baht would put me in Cambodia, whether I like it or not, but that would equate to losing 30% in a little over a year. Brits may grimace at that, but they wouldn't be alone : anyone bringing container loads of goodies from Thailand would have an aneurism.

When the Pacific Peso dips below 30 baht, I expect that there will be some gnashing of teeth, but I'll save my teeth for anything below 26, Any doomsday predictions of a 50% drop would mean 15 baht to the dollar - short of another Great Depression in Oz, I just don't see that happening. If it does, I'll be the guy in the corner at Sharkey's nursing a lone bottle of Angkor and tightly clutching a handful of US one-dollar bills. Anyone know where I can get a secondhand rice cooker ?

You dont need to leave the so-called 'first world' to get inferior medical treatment. Our f*cking public health system is a joke. How many here would be appalled if they saw a Cambodian woman forced to give birth in a carpark ? We'd probably go back to Thailand or wherever thinking 'Jesus, what a destitute country ...'

FWIW, Nepean is in far Western Sydney - a notorious part of the monster that Sydney has become. I'd bulldoze everything west of Parramatta and start again. I despair for this country a little more with each passing day, and that's as sad as anything I've seen in Asia.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/16244331/woman-forced-to-give-birth-in-car-park/

A Sydney hospital has apologised to a mother who was forced to give birth in the car park. Paula Bailey says her harrowing experience at Nepean Hospital was made even worse by the way staff treated her. Paula and her husband Scott tried for five years before falling pregnant with their second child Madison. Earlier this month, they went to Nepean Hospital late at night with Paula having contractions. After she was monitored, a midwife told Paula to go home, but she insisted that she was in pain.

"You'll know when you're in labour, suck it up princess," the midwife apparently replied.

Paula said she was gob smacked by what she had heard. The couple went home only to return when Paula's waters broke. With Paula in pain in their car in the parking lot, Scott tried the after-hours buzzer. "Paula was yelling at me the baby's coming, I can feel the head I need to push," he said. Scott then turned to the car to assist and cried for help. Someone did emerge from the hospital to ask what was going on, and then went back inside. By the time a team from emergency arrived Madison had all but arrived. Dad was holding her head and shoulders.

If the OP is still reading his topic, may I ask why it has been posted in the Bangkok forum?

I can't find any reason why this topic is Bangkok specific so I have moved it to general discussion forum.

Thanks so much for that - I would have moved it into a dumpster.

This has to be a wind up.

OK - facepalm -

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/621679-girlfriend-threatenng-to-go-to-police-and-throw-me-out/

Shirley, you cant be serious ?

I am, and stop calling me Shirley !

I do get fed up with the constant Ladyboy / Thai wife crap. If only they knew how stunning and diverse Thailand is.

Stunning and diverse, eh ? I'd be pretty stunned if I realised my Thai wife was a ladyboy

Just out of wild curiosity, without resorting to Google, how many here know which country has the largest economy in SEA ?

They must lead bloody boring lives. I lead a boring life, but I dont go around badgering workmates about their overseas trips ...

Exactly how would a drop in the value of the Australian dollar magically push prices of everything from food to insurance back down, pray tell ? Those prices will remain high - given the pounding that the East Coast has taken over the last week, the next set of insurance premiums could be even higher. Wishing for 21 baht to the dollar simply so that you can afford to fly back to Oz is pathetic - I'm sure you weren't too cut up about moving to Asia when you left our fair shores ....

I'm in England. I got shafted when I came here and now I'll get shafted when I go home. I hope the bubble bursts soon, because that is what it is.

Bubble or no bubble, why go home if it means you will be 'shafted' ?

If you think Thailand is expensive try living in Australia, the cost of living has sky rocketed in the last few years, meat,fruit and veg have all increased to ridiculous prices,my house insurance with R.A.C.Q, went from $700 two years ago $1200 the next year and last year $3995. When I complained I was told it was because of all the floods and fires we have in Aussie add on to that $3000+ rates and that does not include water another $1400 a year. Small, and medium business are closing down at an alarming rate and they are the biggest employers, shops stand empty in many towns and cities rows of them.

Guys if you can't live on your pension here you have no chance in Australia

It's ridiculous. I want to go back there, but it will kill my savings. I'm actually hoping there's a correction to bring the currency back down, ideally to late 2008 levels....

Exactly how would a drop in the value of the Australian dollar magically push prices of everything from food to insurance back down, pray tell ? Those prices will remain high - given the pounding that the East Coast has taken over the last week, the next set of insurance premiums could be even higher. Wishing for 21 baht to the dollar simply so that you can afford to fly back to Oz is pathetic - I'm sure you weren't too cut up about moving to Asia when you left our fair shores ....

antiquepete is correct - Australians forced to live on the aged pension are doing it tougher with each passing year. No devaluation against the baht will change that - an increasingly large chunk of our supermarket shelves is comprised of tinned goods made in, you guessed it, Thailand.

Slightly OT, but I saw 'The Impossible' here in Oz yesterday. When the second wave hit and they were washed into a plantation, my first thought was 'Fantastic - the snakes would be everywhere, completely pissed off and Naomi Watts' character has two gaping wounds dripping blood ..'. There was so much water everywhere that the prospect of crocodile attack also seemed possible, but fortunately for the real life victims my paranoia wasn't reflected in the aftermath of the tsunami in Khao Lak.

I was mostly unmoved by the central drama - a British family struggling to find one another amidst the chaos after the tsunami - but the footage of Thai and Farang kids being driven away in trucks when their next of kin were listed as either dead or missing was considerably harder to take, even if it was patently obvious that many of the tiny child actors didn't have a clue what was going on. The director insisted on zooming in on one Thai girl, a little cutie who couldn't have been more than four - as ham-fisted and blatant as it was, those scenes remain the most poignant of the movie for me. I expected the body count and the utter chaos in the hospital - it's the question of what happened to the survivors that threw me, particularly in a country where family is everything. I guess many of the actual child victims are teenagers by now - I hope they found a family somewhere..

Er, did I say *slightly* OT ? Apologies.

(Kudos to the rescue and medical staff who must have worked obscene hours in a handful of countries after the tsunami - difficult to imagine being an early witness to the carnage in Aceh. 30 metre high 'tidelines' on the cliffs behind some of the towns that were completely razed, 170,000 dead and thousands injured : that's biblical in every sense)

If I can play Devil's Advocate, other than expats in Laos and Malaysia, how many Westerners are an hour's flight from Bangkok ? I know - cold comfort if Bangkok is the reason you want to relocate - but 6 months in more rustic surroundings might remedy some of that angst

Those who have been to the aging shopping centre in Vientiane would recognise Pnomh Penh's 'mall' : don't know if they've built a replacement since 2010, but I'm confident that it wont be a patch on Siam Paragon or Bukit Bintang. Even the Robinson in Udon Thani looks like Harrod's by comparison.

That's funny. When I visit the USA, my friends get annoyed and bored with me talking about Thailand. They don't care! Some are jealous but hearing about it annoys them even more.

Exactly the same for me.

When I was based in Thailand, but working abroad, or even in the days when I regularly holidayed in Thailand, back home no one was interested about my adventures in the LOS.

When the time came that I was nearing my retirement and getting myself prepared to be here full time, quite a few of my work colleges, friends and family actually took my leaving as a personal affront to them, the attitude being that they are stuck with their mundane lives and I will be living a life of luxury with a dolly bird on each arm, sipping cocktails by the pool and partying every night.

If only they could see the reality?

It seems that you've met my sister. One seriously judgemental bitch who likes to burst into tears and scream 'I cant believe you would even consider going back to Asia after the way they've treated you !'. Some people just dont get that, for a Thai women, chasing you down Soi 22 with a knife is a sign that she cares ....

For my sister, life is all about predictability - for me, that's as slow and painful a death as anyone could wish for. Horses for courses, I guess.

God I miss Asia. Those of you who are about to embark on yet-another-12-hour-day in BKK might grimace at that, but what I wouldnt give to be surrounded by all that pollution and those limbless beggars on lower Suk. I'd get a cab straight to Pattaya

Singapore is not always cheaper.

you need to do your homework first.

see the comments here

Also watch the guarantee issue if buying outside LOS

Bravo, sir. Finally, some sanity re the old 'go to Singapore - even with the airfare, its half what you'll pay in BKK' bullshit. That might have been the case 5 years ago, but I suspect that it has just been blindly repeated in the interim. Yes - I'm aware of the stiff tariff system in Thailand, and I know Customs can hammer me if I choose to import goodies myself, but if Piyanas and Conice can bring gear in at a reasonable price compared to the RRP in British and US shops, why would I risk incurring the wrath of a Customs officer having a bad day ?

Unless you are dealing with an e-tailer who operates out of a shed out in the Sillypore 'burbs, a quick walk around The Adelphi soon makes it obvious that the dealers arent in that building for the view. Cheaper than Oz, I guess, but that isnt saying a hell of a lot - you will still get quoted the 'Gwailo price' (I got that from some Singaporean Head-Fiers, btw - its not simply my own paranoia) and very few of them have an internet presence, much less clearly marked prices a la Piyanas. Some of the Piyanas stock *is* more expensive than I would pay elsewhere, and some of it is cheaper than I can find anywhere else in the region - at least anywhere with a web presence. Wandered around KL one weekend trying to find anything beyond consumer-grade dross from Samsung and the like, to no avail, but next time I'll do some research before I get there. I also hope to get to Seoul one day, but that is intended as more of a bucket list thing.

For those of you who are thinking 'Man, this guy must be on drugs ...', Piyanas have the Ayre Ax7-e for 99K baht.

http://www.piyanas.com/showroom/en/product.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=2571&category_id=931

That's a little over 3300 USD, depending on how close you can get to xe.com's current exchange rate. I challenge anyone to get on a plane at Swampy, fly to a brick-and-mortar retailer and come home with an Ax7-e in their luggage (carry-on, surely ..) for appreciably less than the Piyanas price. I'd be ecstatic if someone flew to, say, Akihabara in Tokyo and bought one back for a thousand USD less than the Piyanas price but guess what ? They pay rent in Akihabara - ruh-roh ....

Sure, Conice' pricing on NAD electronics reflects the difference between buying in Thailand and buying in Britain (duh ..), but who would play the Customs' lottery to try to beat those prices ? Sure, you can buy a box of bits from some guy on Yaowarat Rd - again, happy to hear from someone who has played *that* lottery and won - but 'Warranty, what's that ?'. Ruh-roh.

Apologies if this rant seems a little strident, but I get tired of seeing the same sludge repeated on various fora year after year with nothing in the way of proof. Singapore might have been a stone-cold bargain for electronics once upon a time, but most of the Pantip-style malls I staggered into had the usual Pantip-style crap : mobile phones and laptops. Big freakin' woop. Show me the websites / photos of your gear and the receipts, or stop bagging Thai retailers simply because some of their prices are more expensive than those in other parts of the world.

Thailand is no more an 'unknown quantity' in Oz than Bali is - most people with a passport and a few thousand dollars have been there. They might not go to the bars or fall deeply in lust etc, but they definitely know where Siam Paragon is ....

(even my sister has been to BKK, and she is a boring old lady who never goes anywhere. Her husband hated Asia - classic xenophobe - but she dragged him to every temple and market she could find)

Ask theblether, he's a Scot

We scots are a warm and generous bunch....even to those less fortunate folks who try to cast us otherwise.

I worked with a Pom years ago who claimed that the 'frugal Scot' thing was actually a Welsh plot, and that it was the Welsh who were tighter than a fishes proverbial. I just try not to tread on Celtic toes where possible - they tend to be attached to large Celtic feet