TomBrown

The details of the document that the Thai Immigration gave me today are;

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7.20 Required documentation for a applying visa extension in the case of working for a public charity organization, private foreign organization, foundation, association, foreign Chamber of Commerce, or Thailand Federation of industries:

I see that Immigration gave you the requirements for working in a charity organisation as per clause 7.20 of the Police Order 606/2549.

Perhaps your Immigration office understands numbers better than words. Tell them that you are applying under clause 7.8 of the aforementioned Police order:

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Maestro

Thanks for the attached details Maestro.

I'll take that along to the Bangkok Immigration tomorrow.

I do have one question though because I am currently on a 1 year Ed visa which ends in a few days time. Would this clause 7.8 be applicable as it states '... but shall not be more than 1 year at a time'?

Thanks,

Tom.

I was told that I needed to have a Work Permit and an Education Certificate in addition to my current paperwork. This was news to me and also to the place where I am learning.

7.20 Required documentation for a applying visa extension in the case of working

Tom, from the information you were given by Immigration it appears that you applied for an extension for the reason of working, yet in your post you refer to your place of learning, not your place of work.

For an extension for working, you need the documents mentioned by Immigration. For learning, you obviously do not need a work permit.

The educational certificate is needed only by teachers, I believe, and perhaps also by other professionals with a high-level job title.

Regarding the requirement for a certain number of Thai employees for every foreign employee, I believe it makes no difference what category of non-immigrant visa you have, except that with a retirement visa (non-OA) or an extension for retirement the Labour Department may not grant a work permit.

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Maestro

Thanks Maestro,

That's right; I am only learning, am not a teacher, am not working for the company, and have told them all that several times, but yet they were insistent that I still needed to have the listed details 'regardless of what learning I was doing' was what the lady said. I've gone back to the company who are providing the learning, but I suspect that I am getting the run around from Immigration. Will see what the company says. Possibly I should get in touch with Sunbelt and see what they can do.

Thanks again,

Tom.

Hi,

I currently hold a Multi-Entry Education Visa which expires on the 5th of May 2007. I entered Thailand (where I currently am) in March and therefore have a 3 month stay until June 2007.

Today I attempted to gain a one year extension on my current visa (before it runs out on 5th May) at the Thai Immagration in Bangkok with the following, but was refused;

* Completed TM7 form (Downloaded from the Internet, but notice is different pretty much in layout only to the ones at the Immagration office and the examples there).

* Passport sized photos

* Original Passport

* Signed supporting letter on headed paper from the private education establishment (not a school or university)

* Photocopy of Name / Date page

* Visa stamped page

* Departure card / page

* Original Multi entry Education Visa page

* And of course the 1,900 Baht fee.

Eventually after speaking with a very unhelpful person at the 'correct' desk, I was told that I needed to have a Work Permit and an Education Certificate in addition to my current paperwork. This was news to me and also to the place where I am learning. The lady at the desk said that I have to go to the UK Embessy which I will do this afternoon, but suspect that I will not get any further. By the way, the place where I am learning have suggested that I can do some work for them, but at present this has not been properly confirmed. Oh, the learning is MuayThai, which is what my current visa (gained in the UK) is for.

1. So, am I wrong in thinking I can get an one year Education visa Extension to my current one year Ed visa?

2. Would I be better to let the currect visa expire and go to a neadby country (any suggestions?) to apply for a new one year Education Visa? My flight ticket back to the UK is set for Jan 2008.

3.1. My girlfriend has recently given birth to our first child, would I be better leaving the Education visa and applying for something that suits supporting my child?

3.2 If I finish with the Education visa, will this affect my situation for a work permit? I read on one of the discussions that an employer prefers a person with an Education visa as they don't need to employ four Thais to every farang?

Thanks,

Tom.

The details of the document that the Thai Immigration gave me today are;

---------------------

7.20 Required documentation for a applying visa extension in the case of working for a public charity organization, private foreign organization, foundation, association, foreign Chamber of Commerce, or Thailand Federation of industries:

1. Application form T.M.7 with one 4x6 cm. Photograph and 1,900 Baht Visa Fee. ( I Have this completed already)

2. Copy of the applicant's passport ( I have this completed already)

3. Confirmation letter and request from that organization (I think this is the letter you done for me?)

4. List of the alien employees working in that organization.

5. Confirmation letter and request issued by the chief of the government agency concerned.

---------------------

I did argue the point that I was not working, so why should I have to get this additional stuff. Apparently it has to be done regardless of working or not. Well that is what they claimed anyway, and they're not moving from it unfortunately.

Is this really the case now?

Thanks,

Tom.

Hi,

I currently hold a Multi-Entry Education Visa which expires on the 5th of May 2007. I entered Thailand (where I currently am) in March and therefore have a 3 month stay until June 2007.

Today I attempted to gain a one year extension on my current visa (before it runs out on 5th May) at the Thai Immagration in Bangkok with the following, but was refused;

* Completed TM7 form (Downloaded from the Internet, but notice is different pretty much in layout only to the ones at the Immagration office and the examples there).

* Passport sized photos

* Original Passport

* Signed supporting letter on headed paper from the private education establishment (not a school or university)

* Photocopy of Name / Date page

* Visa stamped page

* Departure card / page

* Original Multi entry Education Visa page

* And of course the 1,900 Baht fee.

Eventually after speaking with a very unhelpful person at the 'correct' desk, I was told that I needed to have a Work Permit and an Education Certificate in addition to my current paperwork. This was news to me and also to the place where I am learning. The lady at the desk said that I have to go to the UK Embessy which I will do this afternoon, but suspect that I will not get any further. By the way, the place where I am learning have suggested that I can do some work for them, but at present this has not been properly confirmed. Oh, the learning is MuayThai, which is what my current visa (gained in the UK) is for.

1. So, am I wrong in thinking I can get an one year Education visa Extension to my current one year Ed visa?

2. Would I be better to let the currect visa expire and go to a neadby country (any suggestions?) to apply for a new one year Education Visa? My flight ticket back to the UK is set for Jan 2008.

3.1. My girlfriend has recently given birth to our first child, would I be better leaving the Education visa and applying for something that suits supporting my child?

3.2 If I finish with the Education visa, will this affect my situation for a work permit? I read on one of the discussions that an employer prefers a person with an Education visa as they don't need to employ four Thais to every farang?

Thanks,

Tom.

Well this little story has a happy ending after all. Much thanks to everyone who posted their advice

Yesterday I contacted two legal companies in Thailand who both said that in fact it was the case that by Thai law the father should be married before the baby can have his last name. They also said that I'd have to go to the courts to gain 'ownership' of the baby with the consent of the mother before I could resolve the issue with the last name. However, it appears that many farang fathers have managed to avoid this issue by having the hospital do the paperwork. The hospital where our baby was delivered was a government hospital in a north-eastern village, who only supplied us with the birth certificate. Incidentally, during the actual delivery, the nurse took a couple of incoming phone calls on her mobile phone which was in her pocket at the time, I was really surprised at that, but everything seemed to go well regardless and the nurse was really helpful.

Anyway, when I returned to the government office to convince the staff that our baby could have my last name I was met with a surprise. They said the paperwork was ready for collection and it had my last name for the baby.

What might have been the case here is that the paperwork with my last name for the child was already done and some of it stamped on my first visit that morning before they realised an issue with the baby's last name, so maybe the staff didn't want to go through the whole process again or be in trouble, so just left it as it was.

So I'm pleased that everything worked out in the end. I just hope that no issue later on appears regarding the baby's name.

Thanks again,

Tom.

Ask them to show you the law text regarding a farang Surname.

I think their arguement is that as an unmarried father my child cannot have my last name, but if I were married then there would be no problem.

When I go back to the office today I will ask them to show me the text regarding the farang surename.

I am right to still stand my ground on getting my last name for the child?

Thanks,

Tom.

> By the way, we intend to call our baby Mr. Jacob Brown - นาย เจคอป บราวน์

I'd go for a Thai ' บ ' instead of ' ป ' for the last character in his first name. Sounds the same but it seems closer to the English 'B'.

Thanks for the info on spelling babies name, my Thai language skill are not that good yet.

By the way, I have discovered that the title for the child up to 15 years old (I think) has to be เด็กชาย <baby name> and not as previously posted นาย <baby name>, which is for a child over 15 years old. I think I remember the age correctly.

Thanks,

Tom.

> By the way, we intend to call our baby Mr. Jacob Brown - นาย เจคอป บราวน์

I'd go for a Thai ' บ ' instead of ' ป ' for the last character in his first name. Sounds the same but it seems closer to the English 'B'.

Here is the update, though I still have a problem with last name and an apparent dead line of 4pm today because the process has already been started / entered into computer. Any further assistance would be very much appreciated.

So far...

I went to the office in person this time and yet again they initially refused to register my baby as Jacob, stating "You can not call baby farang name". Well I calmly stood my ground and they made a few phone calls, spoke to the manager and eventually after more persuasion they accepted Jacob as the first name.

Next came entering into the computer that I was a UK citizen, by means of going through a printed list of Thai and corresponding English country names. There were two entries; British (BRI), and Of The United Kingdom (OUK), but they wouldn't accept either, I think because they were unsure. After printing off another list, there was an entry United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which matched the title on my passport so was accepted. Sorry I missed the code or this entry.

The next problem;

They printed everything off, and then got the paperwork ink stamped, but the lady I was dealing with came back with the paperwork and stated that the baby could not have my last name as I was not married to my girlfriend. She stated that "In Thailand is law you must be married to have farther last name", even though I tried to convince her that it was possible she said it was not. She phoned the Nakhom Phanom office and they said that it had to be the mother's last name.

As the process has already been started and partly entered into the computer, she says that it will have to be completed today by 4pm.

So I now have a situation where the records could have my girlfriend's last name for our child rather than mine. After speaking about it further with my girlfriend, we both have agreed that my last name would be better, but with a pending (apparent) deal line of 4pm today, I am not sure what else I can do.

Does anyone know of a head office or person I can contact that can confirm that the baby can have the unmarried father’s last name?

In head province office in Nakhom Phanom they said over the phone to the local staff here in Ban Phaeng that the baby had to have the mother's last name if unmarried. Maybe there is a national head office contact that can help?

I would really appreciate anyone's assistance.

Many thanks again,

Tom.

another thing, are you actualy in Thailand now???

as at the hospital, various forms should have been filled in by the doctors and yourself/girlfriend with all the relevant names on and everything should be checked very carefuly as mistakes can be hard to rectify.

BB

Hi,

I am in Thailand at present and was at the hospital for the birth.

My girlfriend completed the forms in Thai ,apart from my own name which we wrote in English. We have now translated my full name into Thai script.

This time I will go along with my girlfriend's sister and mother tomorrow and see what happens at the government office. Unfortunately my girlfriend is still recovering from the birth.

We originally had decided to name the baby with her last name, but since reading the posts have decided to name baby with my last name. Would there be a problem with the birth certificate having Jacob with girlfriend's last name?

If the government office here still refuses to have the baby's name as farang first and last, is there some official office I can call in Bangkok for example who can tell the office here that farang names are okay?

I was thinking, how can they tell if name is farang or Thai or from somewhere else?... one list of names from the internet I got had August and London as first names.

By the way, we intend to call our baby Mr. Jacob Brown - นาย เจคอป บราวน์

Thanks to everyone for youe advice and assistance.

Tom.

ps. Will post an update tomorrow.

Hi,

I'm a UK farang with Thai girlfriend (not wife... yet) and we have just had our first baby. We wanted our baby to have a farang first name, but when the my girlfriends mother took my passport and girlfriend's ID etc for registration at the governemt, the mother was told that we could not have a farang first name.

Details;

We want a farang first name with my girlfriends last name, which we will change to my last name once married.

Mother took my passport and other documentation to government in Ban Phaeng in Nakhom Phanom.

Can anyone advise on this situation and how to gain a ferang first name for our newly born baby?

Is this really the case that a baby cannot have a farang name if parents are not married?

Hopefully someone can let me know as obviously time is short we registering a baby birth.

Thanks very much.

Tom.

Congratulation Briggsy on your camera purchase.

All the Panasonic cameras over the years have benefited from a feature called Image Stabilization (IS), which reduces the effect of shaking camera and allows you to capture a good shot that might have otherwise have been unusable without IS. This is especially true when you zoom all the way into a subject, as the effects of camera shake is also magnified at greater zoom. It is only recently that other photo camera manufactures like Canon, Nikon, Sony etc are now providing the IS feature in their 'fixed' lens cameras, a feature which of course has been in their video camera products for years.

Certainly as others have pointed out, a tripod is great for steady shots, but you can get great shots without the tripod and IS switched on. From personal experience, I have found that many friends (both western and Thai) that I have lent previous cameras that don't have IS, have taken some really unusable photos. For those same people who now use cameras with IS, the photos are more than 90% fine.

Some people say that a downsides to having a camera with Image Stabilization switched on is that it uses a little more power as it's always working to keep the shot steady. Personally I haven't seem that much of a difference in power usage.

As well as Steve's DigiCams web site, another good resource is Digital Photography Review found at www.dpreview.com

One point I'd make about digital cameras, which really depends on camera choice / what you are taking photos of, is the ability to fit 'filters' onto the end of the camera lens. Many people will leave a 'clear' filter or 'sky light' filter on to protect the actual camera lens. If the filter gets damaged, it's cheap to replace. Not all cameras have a screw thread to allow for filters to be placed on the lens, though some have optional housing kits that can allow filters.

A couple of tips (both I've had personal experience of);

1. Write on a piece of paper your name, address, camera serial number, include a printed photo of yourself, and take a photo of it all with your new camera. Always leave that photo on the memory card, a second copy of the photo on the cameras' own built in memory if it has one. If the camera gets stolen, there is a chance that it could be returned, or any disputes over ownership can be sorted by review of details on the camera's screen.

2. Particular to fixed lens cameras and point and shoot cameras; When you are finished using the camera switch the dial to 'preview' or 'play' mode before putting the camera away. If for some reason the camera is accidentally switched on when in your bag or pocket, the lens will stay shut because it is not in a mode to take a photo. This can save possible damage to the lens glass and to the zoom motor mechanism. I can't confirm that all camera lenses stayed closed in preview/play mode.

Happy snapping.

Tom.

This discussion is quite interesting to me as I plan on entering Thailand again from the UK on my multiple entry Education visa (6 months remaining from 1 year) and to stay until at least May 2007. It might be that I will require to stay longer, that being the case, I was thinking about getting a return flight ticket in the UK and paying a little bit more so that I can change the return date as required, costing a further £75 if I need to change the date of course.

From reading the responses here, it looks as if I might be able (with my ED visa) to get a one way flight ticket into Thailand and closer to the known return date I can get a return ticket from within Thailand. Is that correct?

Also, does anyone know if there is much of a saving between getting a return ticket in Thailand against getting flight tickets in the UK to Thailand and back with a changeable return date? Admittedly the £75 fee to change the return date is the obvious cost increase, but if I were to return on the scheduled return date.

For the people who go to Thailand on a one way ticket, who do you recommend flying back with? Can you also book a connecting flight to elsewhere in the UK, booked from Thailand or is it better to order an e-ticket over the Internet? What about luggage, all the way to destination or off and on at each stop?

Thanks,

Tom.

Thanks for the quick response.

So everything sounds more or less okay to continue as I am and get back to Thailand. I was really dreading all this perceived paperwork and waiting, but it's maybe not as bad as a thought at all.

I was unaware that I didn't need to do visa runs with an extension on my ED visa. Something I will have to look into further, probably when I am back in Thailand.

That is unfortunate about requiring a separate work permit to work under my own UK company. Is it possible to have two work permits and is there hassle and cost involved in doing so?

Thanks very much.

Regards,

Tom.

Oh I also forgot to ask (as if I wasn't asking a lot already);

Whilst working for the Thai company could I also do some work under my own company, which might include providing services to other Thai companies?

Thanks,

Tom.

Are you sure about being able to work for a company but on my EDucation visa, even if the education I was doing in Thailand is not related to the work?

I thought that the only way I could legally work was on a 'B' visa.

So if an officer wanted to check that I am okay to work, my ED visa would be okay? I am just so unsure about this.

So is the only thing I need is a Work Permit?

Okay, so if working for the company under my education visa, what do I do next?

What documents do I need prepared to get the Work Permit?

Do I get the Work Permit here in the UK or when I go back over to Thailand?

If I work past May 2007 when me current visa expires, can I easily renew my ED visa or am I better to then get a B visa?

What about visa runs, under my ED visa I have to do a visa run every three months, does a B visa also require visa runs?

Anything else I've missed?

Very much appreciate your time on this.

Thanks,

Tom.

I would really appreciate any knowledge and opinions you have on my situation for working within Thailand. Really I am out of my depth regarding how best to move forward.

Some details first;

May 2006 - I gained a Non-Immigrant Education Multiple Entry Visa to Thailand, so valid up to one year till May 2007.

May 2006 - I entered The Kingdom of Thailand, for education purposes.

October 2006 - Returned to the UK as per scheduled flight.

I have been offered work in Thailand, but of course I cannot work on my existing Education visa, so as I understand it I have to secure a work Non-Imm B Visa, I think 'B'(?)

The web site I have been referencing (www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/niv.htm) states many documents are required; do I need to obtain copies of all these company documents for the 'B' visa?

I am also wondering whether I'd be better working under the Thai company or under my own UK Ltd. company and provide services to the Thai company. Either way I'd be doing the same work and required to stay within Thailand for this work for up to one year. The company I'd be working for is reputable, well known and above board. I just want the best and easiest options for both the Thai company and I, possibly the most cost effective too.

Are there any obvious advantages and disadvantages to working via my own company than as an employee of the Thai company?

As I said at the beginning, I am really out of my depth regarding which way is best to move forward.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi,

Would anybody be able to help with the translation of my UK city name into Thai phonetic and Thai script?

The city is Aberdeen, in Scotland.

I have already searched the Internet for world maps in Thai, but couldn't find anything, and am having trouble also finding an atlas in Thai too.

For information, it is for the name of a soon to start Thai boxing gym in Aberdeen.

As I understand it, the name would then be Sit <Aberdeen>, being Gym Aberdeen.

If anyone could help, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom.