1Ping1

OP - I did an ITIN for my Thai wife for TY 2006 (married October 2006, she entered the US in late April 2007 on a K3 visa). We went to the US Embassy Citizens Services area and had a copy of her Thai passport certified (per item 2 at the bottom of the link):

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Obtaining-an-ITIN-from-Abroad

I know some of the rules have changed regarding ITINs since 2007, but that is what worked for us. The only other way to do it without sending in the original passport is to go to an IRS "acceptance agency". The nearest is in Manila. Certain international accounting firms are also shown as acceptance agents, but I do not know if they have offices in Thailand.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Acceptance-Agent-Program

With regards to getting married, we followed the procedure shown on the Embassy's website:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/marriage.html

We used AC Services for the translations required and they took the forms to the MFA for the 'legal' stamps required in Thailand. Took them 2 days and we returned to pick them up then married at Bangrak amphur.

Can't help on the DCF as we filed for a K3 in the USA (no longer a valid option).

With regards to filing taxes, as someone mentioned before the alternative is to file an extension giving you until October 15th to file next year. Hopefully if you can go DCF, your wife and daughter will be in the USA and have a SSN. If not, you can file MFS then file an amended return to MFJ once she has her SSN (if it improves your tax situation). When you file the first return after being married, she most likely will have to declare she is a non-resident alien married to a US citizen and wants to be considered resident for tax purposes for tax year 2014.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p519/ch01.html#en_US_2013_publink1000222193

"

Nonresident Spouse Treated as a Resident

If, at the end of your tax year, you are married and one spouse is a U.S. citizen or a resident alien and the other spouse is a nonresident alien, you can choose to treat the nonresident spouse as a U.S. resident. This includes situations in which one spouse is a nonresident alien at the beginning of the tax year, but a resident alien at the end of the year, and the other spouse is a nonresident alien at the end of the year.

If you make this choice, you and your spouse are treated for income tax purposes as residents for your entire tax year. Neither you nor your spouse can claim under any tax treaty not to be a U.S. resident. You are both taxed on worldwide income. You must file a joint income tax return for the year you make the choice, but you and your spouse can file joint or separate returns in later years.

If you file a joint return under this provision, the special instructions and restrictions for dual-status taxpayers in chapter 6 do not apply to you.

Example.

Bob and Sharon Williams are married and both are nonresident aliens at the beginning of the year. In June, Bob became a resident alien and remained a resident for the rest of the year. Bob and Sharon both choose to be treated as resident aliens by attaching a statement to their joint return. Bob and Sharon must file a joint return for the year they make the choice, but they can file either joint or separate returns for later years.

How To Make the Choice

Attach a statement, signed by both spouses, to your joint return for the first tax year for which the choice applies. It should contain the following information.

• A declaration that one spouse was a nonresident alien and the other spouse a U.S. citizen or resident alien on the last day of your tax year, and that you choose to be treated as U.S. residents for the entire tax year.

• The name, address, and identification number of each spouse. (If one spouse died, include the name and address of the person making the choice for the deceased spouse.)"

Best of luck!

Roger on all the above, and 100% correct.

OP - I did an ITIN for my Thai wife for TY 2006 (married October 2006, she entered the US in late April 2007 on a K3 visa). We went to the US Embassy Citizens Services area and had a copy of her Thai passport certified (per item 2 at the bottom of the link):

I just made the phone call earlier this morning and this in fact is exactly what we are now going to do. When I called on the phone to see if this could be done there she flat out knew exaclty what I was talking about, and all about the W-7 form requirements. And stated for her to make an appointment and to get it done. .

God bless for the confirmation of the process.

The Department of State has retained the visa power despite USCIS having almost complete control of immigration to the US.

USCIS have an excellent website and office in Bangkok. If you take your time and read through the USCIS web pages you will be able to make your own conclusions as to what to do.

Once you have filed an application with USCIS and they have approved your application, you then have to do the same thing over again with the Embassy in BKK who controls the visa. Once you get their approval and a temporary green card for you wife, then USCIS takes over again and controls your wife's immigration at the port of entry and afterward.

You can email USCIS BKK and they will answer your questions. Thus your first question is will they accept a Thai legal wedding in order for you to obtain a green card for your wife. If not, off to the US to get married while she is on a tourist visa.

If you are not sure if you have proof of a legal Thai wedding, there are many on ThaiVisa who can answer that question authoritatively. I am sure a ceremony alone is not enough. A visit to city hall to fill out documents etc. will do the trick, I think. I went the US marriage route and then filed with USCIS and the Embassy and am now about four days from getting a temporary permanent resident card and immigrant visa. You will pay fees at USCIS, BKK Embassy and green card processing fee prior to entry into the US.

If you don't live in BKK, your wife will have to go there for an Embassy interview and get a police clearance. You will also have to post on the National Immigration Web Site you and your wifes personal history including all residences she has had for over a year, all prior passports, etc. The Embassy web pages and detailed instruction for everything will be emailed to you once USCIS has approved you and their forwarding of your paperwork to the Embassy triggers you receiving a packet of instructions to begin the immigration visa process. The Embassy will not deal with you over the phone or personal visit. Their immigration unit will answer emails once they have received the forwarded documents from USCIS and assigned you an immigration visa application number etc.

When you prepare your package for USCIS do so for the Embassy as they require you to forward a completely new package. No reference to the USCIS package forwarded to them is permitted.

I found the process frustrating do to unique personal situations of myself and spouse, so those who say it is easy must have not done it recently or have extremely vanilla backgrounds, no foreign travel or the like. You will be required to provide your last tax return with evidence it was filed with the IRS. There is an online service that can do it for you in a couple of days for a fee. IRS takes weeks plus snail mail to get you the filed return.

As with all visas, they do look at the length of your relationship and if not legally married for two years or more, you will get a provisional green card that causes you to go through the process again 90 days before the end of the two year probationary period of the temporary green card.

You must also show a US residence or efforts to locate permanently there with bank accounts opened, etc. It is covered in both websites under residence requirements.

Thanks for sharing all this. Greatly appreciated. And also agree on your thoughts about each situation being different. Great verbiage. Thanks Again

"Counselor services is the office on the 15th floor next to the US Embassy and Mac provided the contact info for them on this string a while back. I will be giving them a call in the morning to see if they will provide this "alternative" form of certification, and yes, it is the only one that the IRS accepts outside of it being given by the "issuing agency" for whatever document it is you need certified."

The 15th floor building is the USCIS office, not the U.S Embassy Consular Section, with is across the road from the new embassy building.

It's the Consular Section that handles immigrant visas, after approval by USCIS either in the U.S. or here, in the case of DCF. In the same building, same entrance, is the ACS, American Citizens Service section.

Mac

Sorry Mac, and thanks for the correction and all the great info. Man oh Man do I ever get these two, no make that three separate offices confused.

OK,

Now that this old dog has beat his head against the wall for a few weeks. And I have been given some great info, I think I have a plan. On the W-7 form, it does state one "alternative" option for getting the paperwork "certified by the issuing agency" is to try and go through the Counselor Services Division of your home country at the Embassy. In this case, that would be in the building next to the US embassy on the 15th floor.

Mac,

Thanks again for many bits of insight, and thanks again for sending me a while back this very same contact info. Though at the time, I did not think or know that it was an option for getting this paperwork done. . Yeah, I am, was, and most likely always will be a bit confused over just when we use them, versus when we go to the USCIS across the road. All I know is that for across the road, you must make the appointment online, for the counselor services, you must call and make it by phone. And they are only open 8:30 am until noon.

Counselor services is the office on the 15th floor next to the US Embassy and Mac provided the contact info for them on this string a while back. I will be giving them a call in the morning to see if they will provide this "alternative" form of certification, and yes, it is the only one that the IRS accepts outside of it being given by the "issuing agency" for whatever document it is you need certified.

God I am so curious just what the hell others are or have been doing in the past. ..........................You get married to a Thai girl, you and/or she still live in Thailand, she does not yet or you have no plans to get her a visa, you file a US based tax return. With these conditions, your wife "cannot" have a SSN. For you to file a proper tax return so you "must" have a TIN for them.

<deleted>............................................ I am not a paranoid type, but filing a proper tax return is pretty standard stuff? To do that, you must have provided the "certified by the issuing agency" documentation along with the W-7 form to get your wife a TIN to file the return or for darn sure to have "my" accountant file my return?

Thanks Again to All I truly appreciate all input, advice, suggestions solid information and pm's.

Most Sincerely

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Based on what you posted I say first get rid of the Thai lawyer you are using because it does not required one to hired one to get married and have it register. The information provided it seems you are going backwards and it seems that the Attorney is learning while he goes? I've had this happen to me many times until I finally learn first hand.

As for Immigration issue which you have many and I say again just because he or she is a Attorney does not mean they understand the process. Here is who I used a few years ago to take care of everything. This women and her brother both Thai were raised in Las Vegas and educated in San Francisco and when you speak to her perfect English and she knows the process! All I did was sit back and show up whenever I was needed and everything was translated to her in Thai...

TSL & Associate (Thailand) C. LTD.. Virgina LY Email [email protected] Mobile 080 2324111

130-12 Sindhorn Building 2nd Floor Tower 1 across the street from US Embassy red brick building

Wireless Road, Lumpini, Patumwan, Bangkok 10230

Tel 02-251 8130 or 8131 Website www.tslthailand.com

When it was time to take my family to US. had all the documents including when I would get the S.S. number for them...

THE LAST THING YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IS YOUR TAX RETURN UNLESS CLAIMING THEM IS GOING TO GET YOU A HUGE REFUND! YOUR PROBLEM IS IN IMMIGRATION!

good luck!

TSL, and Virginia have moved offices to the Trendy Bldg. Soi 13, about 50m on right off Sukhumvit.

Thailand49,

Could you please send me a message so I can review some stuff with you. I tried sending you a message and I kept getting an error message.

Thanks Again

Most Sincerely

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Based on what you posted I say first get rid of the Thai lawyer you are using because it does not required one to hired one to get married and have it register. The information provided it seems you are going backwards and it seems that the Attorney is learning while he goes? I've had this happen to me many times until I finally learn first hand.

As for Immigration issue which you have many and I say again just because he or she is a Attorney does not mean they understand the process. Here is who I used a few years ago to take care of everything. This women and her brother both Thai were raised in Las Vegas and educated in San Francisco and when you speak to her perfect English and she knows the process! All I did was sit back and show up whenever I was needed and everything was translated to her in Thai...

TSL & Associate (Thailand) C. LTD.. Virgina LY Email [email protected] Mobile 080 2324111

130-12 Sindhorn Building 2nd Floor Tower 1 across the street from US Embassy red brick building

Wireless Road, Lumpini, Patumwan, Bangkok 10230

Tel 02-251 8130 or 8131 Website www.tslthailand.com

When it was time to take my family to US. had all the documents including when I would get the S.S. number for them...

THE LAST THING YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IS YOUR TAX RETURN UNLESS CLAIMING THEM IS GOING TO GET YOU A HUGE REFUND! YOUR PROBLEM IS IN IMMIGRATION!

good luck!

TSL, and Virginia have moved offices to the Trendy Bldg. Soi 13, about 50m on right off Sukhumvit.

Thanks,

Do greatly appreciate the advice and information. And sure as heck agree I have ran the gauntlet myself a few times with attorneys that did more harm than good on other ventures. To be true though, this statement apply s to both the states and Thailand.

Just to be clear. I am using "two" attorneys to file our marriage. One Thai, the other English. Wills, Pre Nup's, the works, and want both to ensure that all is registered properly at the Ampur. I do know I do not need them, I just feel better doing it this way. I am not going to advertise for them here but they are doing what I pay them to do. I am sorry but with pre nup's, will's, (yes, I have a separate one for the stateside assets) I have a hell of a time understanding Thai, and I sure as heck cannot read it. I like to know what I am signing. And this is why I am using Attorney's to walk us through the process up to and leading through filing the marriage and all the documents along with the registration of the marriage.

As for the reason for the TIN, it has nothing to do with me getting a bigger tax return, it is just simply to stay true to the intent of the tax code and filing a correct tax return. I have an accountant, have had for decades, he is going to want proper documentation, as always. I also just have a hunch, but do not know, that filing it correctly, and having my wife show up on my tax return can at best do no harm when I am then proceeding with the marriage visa. Based of course on being married, and if married, well to me that means I best document this on my tax return. Only option would be to file married but filing separately, and there is no good reason to do that.

So, as I noted with Mac. Just what the heck did you do, or others do, to comply with IRS form W-7 and get a TIN for a Thai wife that has not immigrated to the US "yet or ever". As for this, you flat out need a TIN and there is no way to get the SSN until they have immigrated.

Thanks again and do appreciate the good advice, and the contact info for the attorney. Greatly appreciated.

Most Sincerely

When do you do your next IRS 1040? February, March?

Seems to me your business with USCIS and the immigrant visas is your first priority now, IRS can follow later.

Mac

Mac,

Sorry for the late reply. Fricken storm took out my internet for the past four days............

I agree with you and again, greatly appreciate you taking the time to give me some solid advice on this one. We are working out the dates to get married now. Sometime in the next few weeks. Wills, pre nups, reviews, yeah, the wheels turn darn slow sometimes but I am still going to get this done "this tax year". I cannot file for the marriage visa until we get married so I am sorry if I did not make this clear as we are not yet married. There is no problems with the marriage process, it is just typical Attorney time lag, no different than if I were doing it back in the states..

I know my TIN is just one question concerning form W-7 but I am though still a little surprised that I cannot find anyone to tell me how they have satisfied the requirements of the IRS in claiming their Thai wife on their tax return ahead of the Thai wife ever immigrating, 'if ever" to the US. You must get the TIN, but to get it, you flat out must fill out form W-7 and attach it to your tax return. Form W-7 is very specific on what you are required to send in. It wants "certified by the issuing agency" documentation for anything sent in unless you send in the original's. . I do not want to send in my wife and daughters "original" passports, anymore than I would ever send mine anywhere by mail. The risk of it getting lost is just to high for my comfort level. I do recognize that one noted he just attached "proof of his marriage" but nowhere that I can find on the nine page instructions does it even offer that as an approved document..

Beat the bush to death, yeah, I know and I am sorry about that. I am just trying to put this one question to bed. I know I got plenty of time Mac but darn, sometimes these things take time to get processed. I fly back to the states early next year, I need to have that "certified copy" in hand when I go.

Bottom line question to anyone married to Thai wife but still living in Thailand but filing a US tax return, is just where the heck did you get your wifes passport "certified by the issuing agency" to attach this to the front of your tax return so she could get a "TIN", taxpayer Identification Number...............

"My reason for being pro active on getting it registered prior to the DCF application is I guess I am thinking it best to get the marriage "recognized" and filed with the US government before I start the DCF visa process. Seems that it would go over better with them if it was already in place before we started the process. Also, on the off chance that something were to happen to me before the darn visa process (as we all know, can be quick, can be lengthy) is completed I would then know that she is going to be recognized by the US courts as my wife when it comes to settling up my estate. From what I have been able to read, yes, the marriage is legal and binding via the Thai government, but the US government has no way of knowing about it until I file it with them.............. Anyway, that is my reason in wanting to get it filed via the USCIS ahead of the DCF."

The USCIS office here in Bangkok will not accept your Thai marriage certificate before you start the DCF process. You'll include it as part of the package of materials along with filing the form I-130. The USCIS does not have any means to "recognize" your marriage ahead of time.

Once you're married at the amphur, the marriage is locked in, including with the U.S. government, state governments, courts, etc. You're married and in case you croak, your wife will have this U.S. government recognized marriage certificate. It has nothing to do with the USCIS office.

Indeed, if for one reason or another you decide not to process the U.S. immigration papers for your wife and decide to remain here in Thailand, you are still married and the Thai marriage certificated issued by the amphur is still 100% good for any requirement of the U.S. government.

Mac

Thanks Again Mac.

Very good info on how and when to apply through the DCF services division, and greatly appreciated. Onward I go.

Ony thing I am not clear on is the separate issue on what the IRS sees as "a certified copy by the issuing agency" of passport to provide as proof of marriage for tax purposes.

Surly there are those out there that have had to do this. While I have noted that Westsail attached a copy of his marriage certificate and it was accepted. I note that on the IRS tax form instructions the passport only is the one "lone" document that they will accept based on the nine page instructions along with the form W-7 for getting a TIN for a new spouse at the time I file my next tax return. And it must either be the origional, or a "certified copy from the issuing agency".

Sorry again about beating this to death but the question remains, where do I get the Wife and daughters passports certified so that I can attach them to my next tax return. I do again note that Westsail attached a copy of his marriage certificate, and this was accepted, and I appreciate the info but this is not what it looks to me that they are asking for, at least on the instructions I am reading.

I know I am beating this bush to death, but based on the tax code, I need a "certified copy by the issuing agency"......... Anyone gone this route? And if so where did you have to go to get it certified. I am hoping to not have to spend the day in Bangkok if this is something that can be done locally....... Any guidance, direction greatly appreciated and many thanks for clarity on everything else. Truly greatly appreciated.

I didn't read thru the previous replies so I may be repeating what others have said. However I can definitively answer the question about filing a Joint Tax Return. In order to obtain a TIN for your wife, when you submit your first Joint tax return attach the TIN application form along with proof of your marriage to your tax return. For wife's TIN number enter "Pending" on the 1040. I tried to apply for the TIN first so I would have it when I filed my tax return, but the application was rejected, and I was instructed to send the application in with the tax return.

When I followed the instructions there was no problem even though she has never lived in the U.S.

You can't claim a Dependency Exemption for the child until they have residency status for the U.S. See IRS pub. 501 Table 5.

Best of Luck! My wife and I plan to move to the U.S. at some point long enough for my wife to become a citizen, so she will be able to receive 50% of my Social Security Benefit after I pass. A Green card holding spouse is also eligible to collect Social Security, but they will revoke the Green Card if you move out of the country long term.

Thanks Westsail,

Yes, you are correct on all this. I did manage to get the W-7 form via my US Accountant. And as you stated, it is simply attached to the front of your upcoming tax return, based on the fact you were married in the prior tax year, and then they assign the TIN to your spouse ahead of then going ahead and processing the return. It does of course ask for proof of the person you are now claiming as your spouse or dependent.

I post this as it may be helpful for others also as with all the stuff I read related to visa's I could not find any specific's on this issue and it may be of help to others. .. That and the fact that while I may have been one of the sharpest sticks in the shed years ago, lets just say I have taken a few to many hits to the head, been blown up a half dozen times with head trauma.......... Meaning my memory is crap...... And yeah, thats on the good days.................

I have in front of me the one page W-7 form, along with the nine pages of instructions (gotta love our Gov and Tax Code) and I quote Under the section

-How to apply:

"Your original, valid tax return for which the ITN numbers is needed. Attach form W-7 to the front of your tax return. If you are applying for more than one TIN for the same tax return (such as for a spouse or dependents) attach all forms W-7 to the same tax return. After your Form W-7 has been processed, the IRS will assign an ITN to the return and process the return".

And then it states in the following verbiage under the header

-"Providing your "foreign status" or "Identity".

"If you submit an original valid passport (or a cerfitifed copy from the issuing agency) you do not need to submit any other documents to prove your "foreign status" or "identity". this is then followed by a bunch of other vergiage but is by far the best option.

Ok, my only and last question on this is this. I am sure no one wants to send in wife's or dependents origional passport, anymore than I would send in my own. So, the bottom line on this is just what do they accept as "certified by the issuing agency". She and her daughter both have Thai passports but not about to send them in with my tax return. So the question is just what justifies, and is accepted by the IRS as a valid certified copy................. Do you remember Westsail what you did to document this. Or do others know how they did it. I guess I am wondering if this means we just make a copy of their passports here in Hua Hin at my Attorney's office, or does this mean we have to go to Bangkok somewhere to get them "certified by the issuing agency"...........

Thanks Again Westsail, as your info is spot on. I am just trying to put the final nails in this one, and in this case, it means I need to know just where I can get this "certified by the issuing agency"....................

All help truly is greatly appreciated so I can put this one to bed.................

Most Sincerely

Good, for the most part.

"The first thing I am going to do is then register our marriage at the Counselor Services Division of the US Embassy."

FYI, you do not register a Thai marriage at the U.S. Embassy, a Thai marriage at the amphur is quite legal as it stands, that's it.

Your first stop in Bangkok should be a the USCIS office, not the Embassy. It's at the USCIS where you'll enter the DCF process.

My understanding is that it's not so much related to how long you've been legally married, at the amphur, as it is how long you've lived here in Thailand prior to filing for the DCF. Send them an email if you have a question of eligibility:

http://www.uscis.gov/about-us/find-uscis-office/international-offices/thailand-bangkok-field-office

Phone, Fax Numbers & E-mail

Phone :02-205-5352 or 02-205-5382 (within Thailand)

E-mail: [email protected]

Mac

Thanks to all and thanks Mac for the great info you have provided me. I guess my thought on filing the marriage via the USCIS prior to inquiring through them that I wanted to go the DCF route was that they would already reflect our marriage in their records before we started the process.

My reason for being pro active on getting it registered prior to the DCF application is I guess I am thinking it best to get the marriage "recognized" and filed with the US government before I start the DCF visa process. Seems that it would go over better with them if it was already in place before we started the process. Also, on the off chance that something were to happen to me before the darn visa process (as we all know, can be quick, can be lengthy) is completed I would then know that she is going to be recognized by the US courts as my wife when it comes to settling up my estate. From what I have been able to read, yes, the marriage is legal and binding via the Thai government, but the US government has no way of knowing about it until I file it with them.............. Anyway, that is my reason in wanting to get it filed via the USCIS ahead of the DCF.

Anyone's thoughts on my thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated. Am I on the right track on my thoughts related to getting it filed with the US ahead of the filing of the visa.

And again Mac, thanks for the great info in both your responses. I will send them "another" email. I have used that approach before, and I kept getting generic answers, but again, maybe I have just not beat my head against the wall enough times yet so I will keep going.............

I would love to hear from someone that has gone the DCF route if there is anyone out there.

I would also love to hear from someone from the US that has registered their marriage at the Ampur. At what point did you then let the USCIS know that you were married. It seems to me a fairly important thing to be done timely when it comes to things like beneficiary on life insurance forms and other things of that nature. At least in my case, they must be your "spouse, or dependents" and I am sure, or at least guessing this means they are registered as such with the US government?

Again, Thanks Mac for your great advice. I also in advance apologize for beating on the same bush over and over. Just trying to get clarity to me on what others have done with similar circumstances.

Sorry about not getting back to reply to all the great responses above. My internet has been knocked out by a storm for most of the last day.

Great info again. I appreciate it all. First, and those that mentioned it are correct, I have mixed up two separate issues. Tax Filing status, and then visa based on marriage with possibility of going DCF route. I will try and separate them better below. The first in fact has been resolved.

Here is what I have learned via my US accountant. He is solid as a rock, I have used him for 28 years, and due to complexity of my annual returns, going turbo tax while I appreciate the suggestion, is just not an option. Anyway, this issue is resolved. For the record, the form is IRS form W-7, it is the "Taxpayer Identification Number Form" that some have refereed to. It is used when someone does not, or cannot get a SS number due to a variety of reasons. Typical IRS style, a one page form, with nine pages of instructions.

Anyway, what you do is (beat your head against the wall for half an hour, read it, beat your head against the wall again, read it again, keep repeating until it gets sunk into my head that Hell yeah, I can do this. fill it out, attach certified copy of passports or other positive ID, attach it to your upcoming return, based on the tax year you were married in, and then I send it to my Accountant. Per the instructions with the form, the IRS then assigns both the spouse and daughter a TIN before then going ahead and processing the tax return. Based on this, no problem to get married now, and I can then simply attach this completed form, with the required documentation to it next spring when my accountant files my taxes. For the record for those that suggested turbo tax, my tax prep form I get from my account is on the best of years is 28 fricken pages long. Another few pages is not going to weigh it down to much. Does not mean I have a ton of assets, just means that it is not something I like to tackle myself and have not for 28 years. (owning rental properties can and is more work than its worth)

As for Attorney involvement. I could not agree more that some can do you more harm than good. I am using one for the filing of the marriage though for the peace of mind I feel I am going to get having both an English, and Thai attorney on site at the Ampur to ensure that all documents are filed properly. Including the pre nup, and the wills, all certified and translated in both Thai and English. Hell, I sure as heck do not read Thai. I hate getting documents that I cannot read........ But, for better or for worse, as we say in the states. This is the path I am taking.

OK, now that I have separated the two issues. The second part. Getting a visa based on marriage. Once again, I appreciate all the great advice and I can sure use some more as it is confusing as hell but please respect the fact that again, this is the path we are taking. . Without going into details, please remember, all our situations are different. Most likely why there are so many different ways to go about doing things. For the record, our daughter is in a great international school, she is sharp as a whip. My goal though is to get her prepped for college in the states. Please notes there are other reasons we are going to go the marriage visa route and make a go of relocating to the states but please respect the fact that I would rather not go into the details.

I do greatly appreciate all the great advice and concerns with taking this route and relocating to the states. Along with all the pro's and con's. God knows most anything can happen. But then again, without going, and then knowing, well, its a risk I am willing to take. Statistically it does not reflect well as from what I have read, over 70% of those that attempt this for whatever reason, it fails. Divorce and or Thai wife bailing and returning to Thailand, or just bailing in the states. It happens far more often than not. Another old saying though, "nothing ventured, nothing gained" Or, No risk, No reward". Hell, I guess I am just a speculator at best. But again, I have my reasons for trying to see this through. Including the fact that my wife really wants to spend some time in the states. If we make it great. If we end up back in Thailand, well I love Thailand. If she bails, well................. Not My First Rodeo. But I must state the last three years with my wife have been the best years in quite some time. She is a gem. Solid as a rock. And, by far my better half for what its worth. I see myself as lucky to have her, not her lucky to have me............ Hell, she owned her own business when we met, making money, gave it up to be with me at my request. Does not drink, smoke, hates bars........ Yeah, I know, pretty boring but again, great wife, and great mom.......................

Now that I have separated the two issues, the bottom line on the second issue is the DCF and getting a visa based on marriage. We are planning on doing this ourselves. At least until we hit some roadblock or the frustration level takes us to seeking out legal help. My question again though, and I have heard differing views, is do we qualify for direct counselor filing. We have been married by a Monk for three years, but will only have been legally married, at the Ampur for roughly a month. We are going to get our marriage registered at the ampur in the next few weeks. The first thing I am going to do is then register our marriage at the Counselor Services Division of the US Embassy.

So the question again is there those out there that have done DCF. And if so, how did it work out for you......... We will be married, we are and have been living in Thailand for the past three years. Are those not the conditions that they required?. That you are married and have lived in Thailand for a minimum of the past six months?. I have rental contracts going back for the past three years to show that I live here.

The other question is just how do I go about making an appointment to discuss this with someone at the Counselor Services Division at the Embassy. I have gone there three times for my annual proof of income for my retirement visa in the past three years but cannot figure out how to get to a human to talk to about the possibility of going the DCF route, nor is there a box to check to make the appointment online that I can find?................

Thanks Again for all input, it truly is greatly appreciated.

As Always

Most Sincerely

There is some great information on the above thread, very helpful, but as with all threads it has taken its natural course and died down.

I also am working on getting my "soon to be" Thai Wife, and her 7 year old daughter, relocated to the states. Little background info is that we have been married "Thia Style, by a Monk with Ceremony" three years ago. I know, this does not mean squat. Does though show the history of the relationship. Along with about 4,000 pictures going back over the past three years. I also look at her daughter as my own, and am the only father she has ever had. I have been living with them both for three solid years with 95% of my time being spent here in Thailand. (as reflected by my passport)

While I love living in Thailand, I see it as my responsibility to our daughter to get her the best education that I can and I am just not finding what I need here. We plan on making a go of it in San Diego, where I own several properties, and spending the next 10 or so years there to get the daughter to entering college age. For the record, I am retired, and 55 years old with a good solid pension. What the heck is my take on it. If it works out great, if the wife or daughter combined decided they want to move back, well, we move back but I think it would be great for all involved to try and make the move and to make it work, for all the right reasons.

My first question that I cannot find an answer to is just what do guys from the US do for tax reporting on their tax return. Our plan is to get married in the next few weeks. Have pre nup, wills, all translated paperwork from Ministry of Foreign Affairs all ready to go. Including an Attorney to take this paperwork and us to the Ampur to make sure it is all filed correctly at the Ampur. In the following weeks we then are going to head to the US Embassy of Consular affairs to file the paperwork for visa based on marriage.

OK, enough background and back to the question. Just what the heck do I do for tax reporting. What have others done. At this time, my wife of course does not have a SS number, or the Taxpayer Identification Number for me to put on a tax return.

I am guessing that just filing the paperwork at the Ampur raises no flags with the US IRS, but once we then file the marriage at the US Embassy of Counselor Affairs I gotta assume that they then pass this on to the IRS. Having said that, even if they do not. I need to stay within the intent of the law in filing my return.

So, again, and in trying to make a long story short. Just what the heck do we do. Can I file single, up until the marriage is filed at the US Consular Services with the US Government?. Can I file "Married" but file a separate return (Married filing Separatly), and just leave her off the paperwork? The good news is that she does not have any Thailand based income, my accountant asked this and then he stated "Good" as then you would need an "International Accountant". For the record, she did own a clothing store but sold it shortly after we got together at my request.

I do have the "Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number form", all ten pages of it. But it looks to me that you need to be married to be able to fill it out. It asks if you are the spouse of a US Citizen and must list it as the reason you are applying for the darn thing.

Kind of the chicken before the egg thing. Just how the hell does this work is the bottom line?. We want to get married asap, we want to then proceed with the marriage visa, but I am just not sure how to handle my tax returns at at the end of this year is the long story short on this one.

My only other immediate question is this. Since I have lived here for the past year, (living here meaning I have copies of rental contracts, and passport supports documentation of living here) do we then qualify for the DCF (direct Consular Filing) that I have read others have used to immigrate or is there more to it than that.

God Bless and Thanks in advance for all and any help.

Most Sincerely

Thanks Mac

I do have the Form W-7, "Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number". My accountant in the US sent it to me yesterday. For the record, it is ten pages long......... I do plan on helping my wife get it filled out and sent off. But, I do not expect this to be quick or very timely in getting it processed through the IRS and a number assigned.

My question is just what do people do short term. I see people getting married all the time at Ampur. I cannot find anyone though that has waited to get this form filled out and accepted, with the number, before getting married. I would hope to not have to wait and am simply not clear on what to report on my income tax return at the end of this tax year.

I have a rock solid US accountant but he does not know other than he sent me this form to fill out with my soon to be wife.

It is kind of the chicken before the egg thing. We want to get married asap. (we have been together and married "Monk Style Ceremony" for three years) and are now planning on getting a marriage visa to relocate back to the states.

Anyway, Thanks so much for the info and please let me know if you have any more info on what others do in this situation. I think maybe I will post a "What do you do for tax reporting thread"

Again, greatly appreciate your help.

Most Sincerely

I guess I should have added that we are working on getting her visa to the US and going the marriage visa route. That "i hope" is what makes it relevant to this thread.

Most Sincerely

May be to late to ask on this thread but here is my question related to this topic.

What do you do for tax return reporting. I am getting married in Thailand in the next few weeks, and am from the US. My question is just what do you do for tax return reporting related to the fact that I am now married. My new Thai wife will have neither a SS card or a Taxpayer Identification card. Long term I am going to apply for the Taxpayer Identification card until we get immigrated to the US and she can then get the SS card. But the question remains, just what do I do short term to legally file my US tax return next year while we are still living in Thailand?

Anyone from the US that has married in Thailand and is filing an annual tax return out there that can help me out on this?

Greatly appreciated

May be to late to ask on this thread but here is my question.

What do you do for tax return reporting. I am getting married in Thailand, and am from the US. My question is just what do you do for tax return reporting of the fact that I am now married. My new Thai wife will have neither a SS card or a Taxpayer Identification card. Long term I am going to apply for the Taxpayer Identification card until we get immigrated to the US and she can then get the SS card. But the question remains, just what do I do short term to legally file my US tax return next year while we are still living in Thailand?

Anyone from the US that has married in Thailand and is filing an annual tax return out there that can help me out on this?

Greatly appreciated

Great trip for the kid, and the Wife for that matter (as she is a shopper) . Disneyland not the same as in US but if not seen before, as good as it gets for your nine year old wife on a local scale. Took my Thai Step Daughter and wife there last Oct and I have been to both US parks. It was small for me, but the trip was not about me. It was for the kid and wife. For them, it was fantastic.

They both had a blast. Just yesterday my seven year old daughter picked up one of the many pics we had taken and said she wanted to go back. Talks about the trip all the time.

-Disneyland two days. Pull an all day and then go back in the afternoon for fireworks in evening as someone suggested.

-Ocean Park, OK, though one day was enough for us.

-Great cheap public transportation by land and ferry... Plan on using it. Even taxis are cheap now that I think about it due to the competition of the great public transport.

-Several trips across the harbor by ferry, in fact sometimes back and fourth several times the same day............ Great light show at night, Family loved it. Also the "Walk of Stars" along the boardwalk was cool even for me.

We spent five nights on the Island, very laid back, and relaxed. And then spent four nights at hotel on the waterfront with a view of the harbor. Very nice.........

Two Things. Expect to spend a little money as you are not in Thailand. And most important. "Take Some Clothes". We went in Oct and it was a great trip, and due to the time of year, not to busy at the parks. It did rain a bit though and was cold as heck compared to Thailand. The rain on the plus side kept the lines short at both Disneyland and Ocean Park but again, the Family had never seen temps in the 15-20 degree range with rain added in.....

All in All, we had a blast and would recommend it to anyone with kids that have not been to Disneyland before...........

If you are simply wanting a translation, many shops can do it in many cities. But, be warned, it may not be approved at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok, and yes, they will send you packing. Know this as I have been there, done that.

As you coined the word "Official", I suspect you are looking for the version that is stamped, and certified by the M of FM..........

While this also can be done by agents, at least I have been told this, the certification must be done in Bangkok at the M of FM.

Know this all only as I have just "been there, done that" several weeks ago.

First had an Attorney's office do the translation in Hua Hin. Said no problem. Well, while I paid two k baht for the service, (two pages) after spending close to eight hours at the M of FM, it was rejected. They then of course have "onsite" translators willing to do the service for you. In my case, the error was truly valid, I myself could see that the dates were wrong on the translation after it was pointed out to me and they caught it.........

Bottom line, as with all things, one hell of a learning experience and I did manage to get out of there 10 minutes before they closed with a stamped and certified copy of my translation to marry document from the US embassy in one day. But my day started at 3 am and I got home at nine.   :))

Hope this helps and good luck with the marriage moving forward.........

A bit of research would do all well.

Liberty,

as I noted prior, I think a great topic, and lots of info to share and learn by. "My Research" though does not match up with yours. As I noted, I have plan "F" in addition to part A and part B. And as noted, plan F supplemental plan does have the two month window for emergency evac. None of the others do "that I am aware of". Esp not the "Advantage Plan" that is a bare bones combo of plan A and B contracted out to private providers by medicare. Medicare simply pays the premium to another company and you no longer are dealing with medicare.

The "Advantage Plan" that includes prescription drugs is in fact free and does in fact include prescription drugs. What it it also is is a flat rate bare bones replacement through a private insurer of both the plan A and plan B medicare plans. Medicare simply pays them, then you get to fight with them instead of medicare to get what is truly "bare bones medical' and drug coverage. It is one of the cheapest options available as it includes prescription drugs and medical in one plan that do remember though, "replace part A and part B of medicares coverage".

I see no reason that this should be called the "Advantage Plan" (one hell of a marketing ploy on their part but I am sure medicare loves it as it gets them off the hook) as it is very limited, and does not cover near as much as other add on plans do. But, for some, it may be the best option.

The link below discusses the plan itself straight from the medicare site.

http://www.medicare.gov/sign-up-change-plans/medicare-health-plans/medicare-advantage-plans/medicare-advantage-plans.html

Dog#1,

Sawadeka: I can afford to pay for my own healthcare when I move here permanently but I am searching for a way to defray the expense. I'm interested in your 90 K inpatient care insurance. I don't suppose that it covers long-term care too, does it? I am without any long-term care insurance in case I get senile or have a disabling illness. I do have a long-term care /home care policy in Japan but the care that you get there isn't very good. I'll be interested to hear whether anyone has cracked the health care/ long-term care conundrum for us older folks here in Thailand.

I am struggling to attach the policy. The policy does provide "only" inpatient care. I have never had to use it, and that is fine by me, as noted, it is only good for if you end up in the hospital but then it does kick in for long term care. It also though still has caps, as with most but fairly high. AA Insurance Brokers, (hope that is ok to state on here) is who I was guided to. They are in most major cities. They offer half a dozen different plans based on needs and of course cost.

Your last sentence by the way says it all for me also. I think this is a great topic. One we do not like do discuss but one that we sure as hell need to. As you noted, "Cracking the healthcare/long term conundrum for us older folks here in Thailand. Well Said!!

This is from my policy through AA insurance.

ACS ASIA - EXPATRIATE HEALTH INSURANCE
THE COVERS F1b and F1c
Healthcare coverage
Level of coverage Module 1c and 1b Module 2c and 2b
Hospitalization (with prior consent)
Maximum limit per beneficiary
per year
Two options:
Module 1c - 500 000 USD
Module 1b - 1 000 000 USD
Two options:
Module 2c - 500 000 USD
Module 2b - 1 000 000 USD

As I noted, please remember, I have never had to use it. Hard to rank a horse that you have never taken out of the stable. All I know is that it is from a reputable company, and they provide international coverage for expat's around the world. In a pinch, as I noted, I maintain my Plan's A, B and supplemental plan F back in the states as emergency backup.

Would love to hear what others are doing as it is great to get this info out in the open to ponder what is best for us all.

Liberty9133,

Great Questions in your Post, and much needed info for a lot of us to sort out.

I have emergency cover under my mediare advantage policy

I am curious about this. I had thought that the best of the add on medicare supplemental policies only covered emergency's for the first two months that you are out of the country. Meaning traveling, not living in Thailand as many of us are? Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Also, for clarity for me, (yeah, always a problem), are you stating that you are buying a "add on" policy specifically designed to get you back to the US, (the emergency evac policy) so that then medicare can kick back in when transported back to the states. If so, and it is doable I also would be curious if others are doing the same.

I have medicare, then medicare RX, and pay for medicare United Health Care Supplemental plan F, one of the more expensive options. Yeah, I pay it up each year even though I live here as I look at it as a true "insurance" as long as I can make it to the states to use it. "But", as far as I know, as noted prior, plan F while it covers emergencies and evacuations, it only does so for the first 60 days that I am out of country. Meaning to get any real benefit out of it, I must first make it back to the US for treatment once this 60 day window has passed.

Would love to hear that I am wrong, or that you have figured out a way around this. I do pay 90k baht a year for "inpatient" care only here in Thailand, (Again, true "insurance" only and never had to use it) anything other than being hospitalized, I pay, like many others, out of pocket.

Would love to hear from others on how they are managing their medical insurance needs, and again, if yours is true evac insurance covered by this "advantage" plan.......

Gee, let's keep building more and more apartments and houses that nobody can afford or wants. When I first moved here (Korat), 8 years ago, I was struck by all of the vacant houses scattered throughout the place. Over time I discovered more and more and more of them. Learned that then, 2006, over 25% of residential property was unoccupied. With the unprecedented building boom, that number is probably closer to 35% today. Some of those places have been owned by the banks since the baht crash in the late 1990s. What does everybody who's taken a business class, or even a history class, learn? When supply exceeds demand, the price goes down, and vice versa. Not here. In the US, if a bank re-possesses a property, they can hold it on their books for a maximum of 90 days. Then it has to be sold by "public outcry" (auction) for whatever the market will offer. That's why US housing values periodically crash. Sad for the owners bur a real boon for those working class slobs who are lucky to get in on a dip. In most of Asia, Thailand included, banks can hold property indefinitely. And, they can keep its book value at the value they set for the property when it was new. In other words, even though it will never sell, it's over priced to beging with and now vacant for 10 years, there's pigeons living inside it and the wiring is shot, it shows up as 100% of the original asking price as a bank asset. IOW, if you were to really let property prices go to what they should, a condo would go for about 750k, a fancy condo or a simple house for 1-mill, and a large nice house for about 1.5 -mill. Possibly less, based on most Thai's wages. I own my own place here. Paid 2.7 but it honestly should be worth 1.5. It also means that virtually every bank is insolvent. This place is headed for such a day of financial reckoning! And they build more and more and more of these condos and row homes and shop/homes every day. Years after they have finished them, most of the units are still vacant but the price never drops 1 Satang.

Great post. I was just wondering what is your opinion on where property "prices", not "values" are headed in the future?. I agree with everything you have posted and you made clear some of the fog I was looking through. I still though am totally perplexed as to what holds up the prices of properties in all areas, both rural and resort. Issan and South. . They seem to be about 100-200% above true value. All areas have the high vacancy rates you reflected on, it just seems the bubble should burst somehow. Though I have not idea what/how it will play out.

In any open market where people are investing in real estate, you cannot have rents being less than half the price of the house or condo payment. The only way that would happen here is if you put 60-70% down and only financed 30-40%. With the large down payment, you then of course are parking a large sum that is not doing anything for you.

I have invested in property (houses and condos) for over 35 years. Here, I am renting and still trying to sort it all out...........................

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand will end up being a powerhouse in the AEC bloc in the long run. The implementation of AEC has now been put back to December 2015 and it is doubtful that many of the other countries ( Philippines, Indonesia and Cambodia as examples) are going to be fully ready either for its revised start.

The AEC is going to change the ASEAN business landscape beyond recognition and in a positive way and many of us in transnational businesses in the region are gearing towards it with great anticipation.

Yes it will be in the long run. The main problem is they never started to educate the students so they will be held back by at least one generation.

As for the business scene. Not being a business man myself how can it grow with no workers. Who is going to start a company up and pay 300 baht a day when they can do it cheaper in other countries.

It is not like these are unknown facts. As has been mentioned the ownership will also be a factor in it. There is only room for so many companies to start up with the ownership having to be 51% Thai.

I would not be a bit surprised if the Government who ever they will be didn't start checking into small business where a foreigner is running it. Hold them to the letter of the law to avoid disputes with other countries. Yes indeed it will take a long time.

Interesting times ahead and as you say Thailand will not be the only one not prepared. But I wonder how many of the others have been preparing for it.

Use of

My gut, (wrong before, will be wrong again) feels that Thailand is farther behind than we think. I truly pray that I am wrong............

Cambodia, Philippines, yep, they are way behind. But, others are looking to be ahead as money starts to pour into a more open Burma these past few years and Malaysia, even with all its problems, at least as appears to be more geared up for the future.

As noted on labor. Great question and I agree, just where do the workers come from. As most of us know, every construction project of any size already has illegal workers from outside Thailand making 150-180 Baht per day. My Wife's Brother is a large Thai Contractor building 40-50 houses at a time in NE Thailand. He sub's out all work to contractors. They in turn, bring in all their workers from (in his case) Cambodia. Meaning they are making roughly half the minimum wage of a worker legally in Thailand.

I am all for open trade between countries and in the fighting off of China taking an even bigger picture of the pie. I just am having a hard time seeing how this is going to benefit the average Thai in any positive way.

As for the economics of establishing and doing business in a cross border future business climate. Look at infrastructure, well, we already drive on the wrong side of the road and the steering is on the wrong side of the car compared to most of our neighbors. To increase across boarder trading with our new partners this in itself is going to be a big problem. With long haul truckers this simply does not work. Roads, even if it did, well, we all know the answer to that. Our roads are crap. Rail systems, we have "one ancient track" going from north to south through the entire country. Not exactly geared up for hauling cross boarder goods and trading in that fashion either.

As noted, I pray I am wrong. If, as I believe, Thai's already have one of the better "Standard of Living" indexes in SEA. Simply leveling the playing field in itself could and will only have a negative impact on their day to day standard of living.

I applaud you in your business and am sure you are going to succeed. For those in business I think that yes, this is a good thing as it opens up the borders to many things, including though "legal" cheaper labor. Again, my only real concern is the quality of life for the average Thai as I also am retired, and do not have a business.

To me, if your neighbors standard of living goes up, as I noted in my first post, yours in most cases historically, will go down. With jobs in Thailand already being farmed out to their less fortunate neighbors due to Thai's not wanting to do the work on the cheap. (as is already the case today) Well, I do not see that as a good thing down the road. It is going to mean "leveling the playing field". Meaning again, and the only point I was trying to make, If they make more money, their standard of living goes up. If thai's then have even less jobs, well, then theirs in most cases is going to go down.

It is going to be a "Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way" situation. I as I am sure we all do, pray we are leading the way, or at least smart enough to get firmly to the front of the pack.

Slightly off topic but surly related...........

I am more than a little frosted that less than six months ago I bought a "real" copy of windows 7 pro and MS office for my ASUS laptop. I paid roughly 9,000k for these. Now, of course, MS has came out and said that they are no longer going to be supporting windows 7 and thereby forcing us all to transition over to windows 8.0.

My question is this, how long do we truly have before security is an issue for using windows 7.0? Hell, that was my number one reason for upgrading to a "real" copy of windows. So that I could maintain the upgrades and maintain some sort of internet security for online banking.

On topic question I think as anyone planning on buying a new laptop should at least (I think) be asking this same question...............

Advice truly and greatly appreciated. And yeah, I am still a little pissed over buying this to then find out shortly it would no longer be supported as Bill Gates needs to restock his treasure chests. . Fricken MS...........................................................

Whenever I see Bill Gates getting attaboys for donating money to charity, and he and his foundation do donate millions, I think Good For Him........... It is not his money he is donating, it is ours.