PhuketdashScuba

This is a good move but it is like locking the stable door after the horse has run off. The facts are that all the reefs are well and truly dead. Hardly a living coral left around Phuket and the local islands. Anyway cleaning up the garbage is highly commendable and good on those taking part.

The reefs are very much alive, with lots of lovely corals in the area, both hard and soft corals. The last years the reefs are on the up again after coral bleaching a few yeas ago, but they really are recovering faster than expected.

So yes, positive that something is done to protect the reefs, and positive that the dive operators are co-operating with eachother. Can more be done? Sure, but after last year's cleanup this is another step in the right direction.

The national park is closed. It will open again on 15 October this year.

One boat is full, one still has a few places available. So act quickly and you can contribute here.

One boat is full, one still has a few places available. So act quickly and you can contribute here.

See this thread on 2 events for Go Eco Phuket.

AFAIK not for sale in Thailand.

I agree with most of what you have said, but:

1) don't agree with you that SEA is not suitable because of too many distractions;

2) on Koh Tao everybody but the managers of the big DC's work without a workpermit, so I would not say it is no-no there. I wish it were otherwise though and work there was done legally.

But none of this crap matters to the OP who sounds to be buying his first reg, isn't a tech diver, and will likely be diving mostly here in SEA, and thus should get a yoke style.

I think it does matter, because it will give a much better background on which to make an informed decision.

I would still recommend a DIN, even for these waters and non technical diving. Agree though most people would not agree with my opinion on this.

Yes,

I know and I know what you mean. But DIN does not have to be 300 bar to

be 'real DIN', which is what I mean. Your statement 'not 300 bar so not

true DIN' is simply not correct.

I am

fairly certain that if you go back a few years before the hybrid

DIN/yoke valves came about, the DIN only valves were generally had a 300

Bar operating pressure and the yoke ones were 200 bar. Heck, even the

PADI open water video states DIN is for higher pressure. Thus only 300

bar 7 thread DIN valves are "true DIN." The rest are really just yoke

valves that fit DIN regulators if you remove the insert. They are not

rated to 300B, thus can't be "true DIN". The whole point of DIN

originally was to accommodate higher pressures in applications outside

of scuba.

Din valves have been around for years and years, and were originally 200 Bar.

The converters etc. came along a lot later, way after the DIN valves.

Regarding the PADI video: made in the US without any knowledge about anything other than mainstream US diving.

You

just agreed with everything that I said with exception of 300bar 7

thread DIN valves.... No worries though, not a knowledge contest...

I'm sure your a very good diver and believe me PADI didn't invent

diving, there are many other certifications agencies and most of the

basic stuff for diving was created before the certification agencies

even existed.

PADI,

great market penetration and training at around 80% monopoly, they got

the right formula. There are others though and they are just as good ...

At the end of the day it's about the diving and not the fancy card you

flash in front of people. I pull my cards when asked, which is rare

since everyone already knows me that I dive with in Thailand, other than

that I dive and appreciate everyone's experience and training. I even

have the tendency to learn something new and hopefully share something

of value with others.

Yes, I know I agreed with you. Is that a problem? I even agree with the threads if you read my post correctly.

If you look at the post you'll see it was addressed to Joe, who did not agree with me, hence my reaction to his post.

Yes, I know and I know what you mean. But DIN does not have to be 300 bar to be 'real DIN', which is what I mean. Your statement 'not 300 bar so not true DIN' is simply not correct.

<snip>

If your a recreational diver you shouldn't even be worrying about a DIN valve, just get a Yolk setup and go have fun diving, it's what most people have and you wont have to carry all those extra adapters and tools like I do.

Here in the SEA and in US oriented places like Carribean, yes. But in Europe and e.g. Egypt DIN is the norm.

My own reg is DIN, simply the better system.

Yes, I know and I know what you mean. But DIN does not have to be 300 bar to be 'real DIN', which is what I mean. Your statement 'not 300 bar so not true DIN' is simply not correct.

I am fairly certain that if you go back a few years before the hybrid DIN/yoke valves came about, the DIN only valves were generally had a 300 Bar operating pressure and the yoke ones were 200 bar. Heck, even the PADI open water video states DIN is for higher pressure. Thus only 300 bar 7 thread DIN valves are "true DIN." The rest are really just yoke valves that fit DIN regulators if you remove the insert. They are not rated to 300B, thus can't be "true DIN". The whole point of DIN originally was to accommodate higher pressures in applications outside of scuba.

DIN valves have been around for years and years, and the BAR's allowed have nothing to do with the design (apart from the thread difference introduced later to prevent accidents).

The converters etc. came along a lot later, way after the DIN valves.

Regarding the PADI video: made in the US without any knowledge about anything other than mainstream US diving.

Yes, I know and I know what you mean. But DIN does not have to be 300 bar to be 'real DIN', which is what I mean. Your statement 'not 300 bar so not true DIN' is simply not correct.

= absolut nonsense!

Absolut - as in the vodka ... or absolute - as in total, complete, or extreme ... like 'totally devoid of value', 'completely unhelpful', or 'extremely facile'? At least I went on to qualify that comment and explain the rationale and it pains me not to think you may have a different opinion, albeit one that you may be reticent to share.

But your response was truly illuminating on an issue that has long troubled me, and that is how it is possible to amass more than 27,000 posts to a forum ... given an average of 15 minutes to read, comprehend, then write a sensible and lucid forum posting that would mean even over a period of ten years spending 675 hours every year ... that's 2 hours a day, 24/7 for a decade ... to reach that sort of volume and I just could not understand how something like this was possible. Now I understand.

So what risks are eliminated by using a local broker? And please don't come with 'consumer protection' like you did in another thread today.

That's a reasonable question so off the top of my head here are the things a local broker has to follow, consider, be constrained by that don't apply to an offshore broker or intermediary:

- posting a minimum level of capital to minimize solvency risk

- ensuring officers and Directors must meet 'fit and proper' criteria

- providing monthly returns to the regulator to confirm ongoing capital adequacy

- employing only suitably qualified employees

- must carry adequate professional indemnity insurance

- required adhere to the requirements and code of conduct set out in the insurance regulator legislation

- adhere to the normal market regulations regarding what constitutes deceptive practices, fraud etc (Thailand is far from ideal in these areas but at least there is some legal framework which is better than nothing)

- be subject to the complaints procedures, directions and remedial instructions of the regulator if guidelines are breached

- if the business employs an expat, meet the necessary requirements for work permit - which presumably is something the expat does not wish to have rescinded

This amounts to having a high degree of transparency as well as accountability with the penalty for misconduct likely to include cancellation of the expat's work permit and instruction to leave the country - which would probably be a financially crippling blow.

None of these apply to a broker or intermediary that is located outside Thailand when they are dealing with Thai residents.

Some people may scoff at the level of seriousness these issues are dealt with in Thailand compared with some developed western markets. But I think in reality these issues are a lot more advanced and seriously treated than most would expect, and while it will never stamp out bad behavior it sure lowers the risk substantially - and my view is dealing with someone who falls under these requirements is vastly preferable to dealing with someone in a different country who is actually subject to none if these and you are totally dependent upon their word, with no external scrutiny or accountability.

I hope this is a reasonable answer to a fair question.

Sounds good in theory, but as I mentioned already: please don't come with 'consumer protection', because there is no way this is giving the consumer any form of protection here in Thailand.

Plus of course this statement is based on nothing: "dealing with someone who falls under these requirements is vastly

preferable to dealing with someone in a different country who is actually subject to none if these and you are totally dependent upon

their word, with no external scrutiny or accountability", especially since you mention yourself: "Some people may scoff at the level of seriousness these issues are dealt with in Thailand compared with some developed western markets."

Any reason why someone would not use the public health system which is free, provided one has a yellow book and is registered in the hospital?

Yes, you're not entitled to use it. There used to be a loophole which was closed, so don't count on this.

For this area and in general SEA: yoke. DIN however is without a doubt the better system, so you could also consider buying yoke and using an adapter where no DIN available. Slowly slowly DIN is becoming more common also here, our tanks e.g. are DIN with yoke inserts, so usable for both, and on more and more boats also these DIN valves with inserts are available.

And yes Joe, these DIN valves are true DIN valves.

There are a few courses that can be recommended before your divemaster course, but overdoing it is also an art, mastered here.

Required are after advanced are Rescue diver (so current first aid and CPR) and you need to have 40 dives when you start the DM course.

I think good choice with the equipment BTW.

if I take a dive-master course , or something like that , I would assume there would be a discount on the gear ?

Up to 20% if your really lucky a bit more

Yes, we give 20% discount on gear to people diving with us.

You should also inform the OP what brands you sell so that he can compare prices online or at local equipment shops in the USA. 20% off is very good but without a baseline retail price to deduct from really not relevant. Markup on Dive gear in general is around 15-35% so not much profit for your shop giving a discount like that, I assume your making money off the courses??? It's business, no worries, it is what it is.

All locally available brands, so Cressi Sub, Scuba Pro, Aqualung, Seac Sub, Mares, Apeks, Suunto, Technisub, OMS, Tusa, Intova, etc.

if I take a dive-master course , or something like that , I would assume there would be a discount on the gear ?

Up to 20% if your really lucky a bit more

Yes, we give 20% discount on gear to people diving with us.

About 100% of the perceived value (so basically any value the customs feel like).

Yes, DC's will have major brands available like Cressi Sub, Aqualung, Scubapro, Mares, Seac Sub, etc.

Especially for masks it is also worth checking the locally made brands, excellent value for money.

When making that many dives you should be able to negotiate the rental rate down a bit, ending up at about 300 Baht per day, or 10 US$. Having said that, your own gear will always be more comfortable.

I would recommend to take it with you, but don't ship it independently. If you ship there will, unless you're very lucky, a about 100% import tax be applied on the perceived value. So if you are taking lots of other things already for a 9 month stay, rent.

I am a big disliker of Mares regs, but the Abyss is an exception, it really is a good regulator IMO. For the same or less money though also the Aqualung Legend and several Apeks regs can come into the picture, and I'd prefer either of those.

PhuketdashScuba, thanks for the info. You said the aqualung regulators are easy to service in another post. Whats the Mares Abyss like to service. From your post it sounds like you get a better quality regulator if you buy Aqualung or Apeks over mares for less money.

The Abyss is easy to service as well. A problem might be that the Thailand distributor is well known for having as little stock as possible, and spreading that little stock out over multiple locations, so chances are parts will have to be ordered.

I would say I prefer the Legend or Apeks because of value for money, but I think quality wise also the Abyss is very good. Just take the service aspect into account as well.

Yes, that's true. But it's also true that the merger between Apeks and Aqualung took place before Scuba Market opened its doors, so it's actually irrelevant that Scuba Market has been furnishing Apeks parts for these past few years that they've been in business.

They've been in business quite a few years now, 6 I would guess, and have been selling and servicing Apeks all those years. Service and parts have been readily available for many years now without any problems.

Aquamaster, the official Aqualung distributor in Thailand, does not even have Apeks in its product range, so I would advice anybody fpr Apeks products to go the the people that know Apeks, i.e. Scubamarket.

Ivan,

Apeks is a highly regarded brand from a manufacturer that was acquired

by Aqualung some years back. One outcome of that merger is that service

kits, parts, and maintenance are all readily available.

They have been already for years via Scubamarket.

I am a big disliker of Mares regs, but the Abyss is an exception, it really is a good regulator IMO. For the same or less money though also the Aqualung Legend and several Apeks regs can come into the picture, and I'd prefer either of those.

Sorry, forgot. The only difference between the Legend and the Legend LX is the environmental seal. And you really don't need that in our waters.