stephen terry

Actually, what you said is clear. But wouldn't it be just peachy-keen for the defense and their supporters if there were to be another rape/murder while the 2 Burmese are in custody such that they can say "You see - we told you so!"

I am a defence supporter, and the last thing I'd want to hear about is another murder - so it wouldn't be peachy-keen, JLC. And while it is a possibility that the B2 are the 'real killers', it is just as possible that they are not.

And if I was the headman, I'd make sure both Mon & Nomsod understood that tourist protection was imperative to their businesses, and that he would expect them to ensure their safety on his patch - or else. Not too difficult to understand, is it?

That's right. That's what i wrote. The defense would almost be certain to be able to get the B2 off if there were another murder on Koh Tao in mostly similar circumstances. I have also way back written that if the persons way up the food chain who might advise the persons you mention to lay low might have also hung them out to dry long before now if they knew they were responsible for the crimes.

The difference between the B2 and persons you like to mention as being responsible for these horrendous crimes is that the B2 have been charged with the crimes and will soon stand trial and the others have not. You seem to consider that as a mere technicality.

i wouldn't want to hear about another murder on Koh Tao even if it gets the B2 off the hook. Another victim, another family in grief - no, there's been enough already.

Sorry, don't agree about the foodchain, not in Thai society where family protectionism is paramount.

Read my response above to JD. Only the RTP can answer whether Nomsod and Mon are innocent. My focus is on hoping for a fair trial of the B2. Media pressure for transparency could help.

.. Or else maybe there haven't any rapes/murders on KT similar to those SEP 2014 because the perps in that case are in jail on Koh Samui. But wouldn't it be just peachy-keen for the defense and their supporters if there were to be another rape/murder while the 2 Burmese are in custody such that they can say "You see - we told you so!"

Or else maybe Nomsod and Mon have been given an ultimation that their necks are on the line should any more rapes/ murders occur on that beach. And, further, I am sure that no-one on this site would ever want a repeat of this tragic crime. It's not humorous, JLC.

The very definition of defamation. The addition of the word "perhaps" doesn't make it less so.

I do find the lengths to which people will go to insinuate the involvement of former persons of interest laughable. General Panya stated that they were cleared on the 25th of September. The news stated that only about 30 of the over 200 DNA samples collected had been tested on the 26th of September. Just prior to his reassignment he stated that they would make arrests within 3 days. The 2 Burmese men were arrested 2 Days later.

Read 159. No mention of accusing Mon or Nomsod of anything other than in the interests of future tourist safety. As far as I know only the RTP can answer the questions as to their innocence or not.

.. Or else maybe there haven't any rapes/murders on KT similar to those SEP 2014 because the perps in that case are in jail on Koh Samui. But wouldn't it be just peachy-keen for the defense and their supporters if there were to be another rape/murder while the 2 Burmese are in custody such that they can say "You see - we told you so!"

Or else maybe Nomsod and Mon have been given an ultimation that their necks are on the line should any more rapes/ murders occur on that beach. And, further, I am sure that no-one on this site would ever want a repeat of this tragic crime. It's not humorous, JLC.

I've read any number of times by the same poster of the 'real killers' who are at large just waiting in the shadows for their next unsuspecting victim. And once again it is certainly within the realm of possibility that the 'real killers' are sitting in jail in Koh Samui. As for anyone rooting for another murder, that was your idea. All I said was basically that the defense probably would not look a gift horse in the mouth

The 2 persons you mention above as of now have not been charged with any crime yet you have no problem in suggesting that someone may have advised them of their future actions assuming that they have committed the crime for which they have not been charged..

Actually, what you said is clear. But wouldn't it be just peachy-keen for the defense and their supporters if there were to be another rape/murder while the 2 Burmese are in custody such that they can say "You see - we told you so!"

I am a defence supporter, and the last thing I'd want to hear about is another murder - so it wouldn't be peachy-keen, JLC. And while it is a possibility that the B2 are the 'real killers', it is just as possible that they are not.

And if I was the headman, I'd make sure both Mon & Nomsod understood that tourist protection was imperative to their businesses, and that he would expect them to ensure their safety on his patch - or else. Not too difficult to understand, is it?

.. Or else maybe there haven't any rapes/murders on KT similar to those SEP 2014 because the perps in that case are in jail on Koh Samui. But wouldn't it be just peachy-keen for the defense and their supporters if there were to be another rape/murder while the 2 Burmese are in custody such that they can say "You see - we told you so!"

Or else maybe Nomsod and Mon have been given an ultimation that their necks are on the line should any more rapes/ murders occur on that beach. And, further, I am sure that no-one on this site would ever want a repeat of this tragic crime. It's not humorous, JLC.

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded (by a couple of posters on here) as having committed the crimes.

And how is anybody expected to know that unless you say. Confusing by design.

I'm sorry I confused you. Perhaps you haven't read many of my previous posts, which all support the innocence of the B2. Read 134 & 135 in their entirety, and you should be able to understand where I'm coming from.

Why would Thai people destroy evidence and lie to the RTP if it wasn't them involved? With the subsequent arrest of the B2, it makes the Thai behaviour even more strange - and leads me to the conclusion that no way were the B2 involved (except to a couple of prolific posters on this site).

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded as having committed the crimes.

We will see if there is evidence of them not having committed the rape and the murders in court. I have not seen any exculpatory evidence.

I have already explained that they cannot be found guilty of committing David's murder. In the absence of a murder weapon (no David's DNA on the hoe) there is no direct link between them. To be in the vicinity of the crime is not evidence of murder. Therefore, in respect of David's demise, there is no case to answer.

The absence of inculpatory evidence is exculpatory evidence.

Further, if (from the above) they didn't attack David, who did?

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded (by a couple of posters on here) as having committed the crimes.

Re 110.

I do respond. The locals don't know. You would not only have had to be awake at the time, but also present at the beach. To claim people know anything other than gossip is ludicrous. However you do appear willing to give credence to gossip (spread by people who were not on the island)

So what you're implying is that there were no witnesses to the crime. The B2 are innocent. You can't have it both ways.

Basicaly if your a Brit in Thailand and get in trouble. Do not expect any help from Britain. It is called diplomacy!

I'm not clear how you reached your conclusion from this article. It states that British police have been helping with the investigation/prosecution of (non-British) individuals accused of murdering British citizens. They are helping British citizens (the families of the deceased) by ensuring that those who committed the crimes see justice. I don't see how you conclude the opposite.

Yes, justice Thai-style: with the prosecution and the full weight of Thai officialdom getting the interviews and forensics from British experts, .....but the defense stuck with nada. If that's justice, then I'm a green frog.

I must have missed a report where any forensic evidence processed in the UK has been turned over to the prosecution. I also must have missed a report where any interviews conducted in the UK were officially turned over to the prosecution.

From the Guardian article

The FCO response said Hampshire, Essex, Hertfordshire and Jersey police had been asked by Thai police to interview Britons who were on Koh Tao with Witheridge and Miller. It added: “We now understand that UK law enforcement colleagues shared the contents of these statements informally with Thai police after they had taken human rights considerations into account.

Although I agree not formally, the question then would be why informally ?

Informally can't be used in court. If it can't be used what harm is there? Other reports say that contact was through Interpol.

So nothing official, and no report regarding forensics that I am aware of.

Pretty hard to make real claims of them working together on this.

Reprieves Beef is they applied to the relevant forces to have the friends interviewed after being told they hadn't been already.

It then turns out actually they had interviewed them despite previous denials. The 4 forces have claimed they done it informally so what they said was factual in their eyes.

Reprieve now want copies of the interviews as the defence had asked for them via Reprieve and their Lawyers in the UK. The UK Police have acted in what some people would describe as underhanded considering the MPS letter sent in December.

Whilst the prosecution have every right to have people interviewed so also do the defence. Its a level playing field as far as the UK is concerned as its not under Thai Jurisdiction.

That's the bottom line in this story. They wanted to use the UK Police to conduct interviews. Now the purpose of all Police forces is to work to prove or disprove a case. Reprieve have no concerns that the statements will reveal any evidence that ties the 2 people they are acting on behalf off. They just want the facts. Like everyone else here. Just the Facts. No cloak and dagger. No withholding important evidence that could prove one way or another.

Reprieve isn't representing the defendants nor are they interested in the guilt or innocence of anyone. They are a pressure group opposed to the death penalty. They work to stop the death penalty regardless of guilt.

WRONG.... 100% wrong.

Reprieve are working for the defence along with their lawyers Leigh Day. They have access to private and confidential information from the Police and coroner. They are the assigned representatives in the UK signed off by Nakhon Chomphuchat .

You don't know who I am by the way.

Which is more likely that the B2 will be 'let off' on 'not enough evidence' to convict them. No-one loses face.

So far, there has not been any rebuttal about my assertion that had the B2 committed this crime, the locals would have marched them into the RTP HQ. Had they been involved, the Headman would have released the CCTV, Nomsod would not have fled, and the RTP would have had an easy time. If the DNA matched, there would have been independent verification, and the farcical re-enactment would not have occurred.

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions.

There has been rebuttal. You apparently are simply ignoring it.

Someone in BKK at the time could not have "fled"

Nice try. How about the locals?

Answered above.

Actually you don't respond to the assertion that had the locals known who were the killers, e.g, the B2 in this example, they would have been marched into the RTP HQ. I really thought you had more common-sense than to ignore what would have happened in a close-knit community.

One day, you will accept that the B2 have been more than likely set-up for this crime, as do the majority on this forum.

So far, there has not been any rebuttal about my assertion that had the B2 committed this crime, the locals would have marched them into the RTP HQ. Had they been involved, the Headman would have released the CCTV, Nomsod would not have fled, and the RTP would have had an easy time. If the DNA matched, there would have been independent verification, and the farcical re-enactment would not have occurred.

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions.

There has been rebuttal. You apparently are simply ignoring it.

Someone in BKK at the time could not have "fled"

Nice try. How about the locals?

freedom for them ! stop this mess !!

So - if you have evidence that they are innocent, please present yourself as a witness.

I see this article as being one of two things

A genuine belief in their clients (don't they have to say that?) and they are looking for witnesses that have not come forward. But wait - if the witnesses have not come foreward, how does the defense team know what they are going to say?

or

it is a clever ploy to say that the witnesses were too frightened to help and that is the reason that we failed to 'get the defendants off'.

For my part - the water is so muddy that I have no idea who is to blame. The police mishandled parts of the investigation, witnesses have gone home. The reporting has been 'suspect' at best and the 'social media CSI teams' have said that it is a stitch-up with nothing but emotion to back that up.

Conspiracy theorists are having the time of their lives.

Sad for the defendants if they are innocent. just rewards if they are not.

If there were witnesses from the UK, we would have read about it already in a UK newspaper as soon as they got home, I do not believe for one minute there are witnesses, it is a smoke screen, and I believe the outcome is inevitable.

Read post 16 above, from the Guardian re Brit police interviews. You might also want to consider that potential witnesses wouldn't want to incriminate themselves in any unlawful acts. Self preservation is a powerful motivation not to speak up, especially if it means returning to Koh Samui for the trial.

Consider also that David's DNA is not on the hoe, therefore it is not the murder weapon used on him (as portrayed in the re-enactment farce). In the absence of an alternative weapon, there is no direct link to him and the B2. Being at the crime scene (if proven beyond reasonable doubt) is not enough evidence to convict the B2 of HIS murder.

Meanwhile the head public prosecutor said his side will make a compelling case with 65 witnesses to testify against the men including police, witnesses and forensic investigators.

So where were these numerous witnesses on the days following the murders? If it all pointed to the B2 they would have been arrested around day 2, grassed up the locals. Sorry, it's fabrication, smoke and mirrors.

They are only policemen. Why would anyone expect them to uphold the law?

Whether a bar makes money or not is the key. A friend of mine bought a bistro (goodwill) and is paying rent. Three staff. Good location with ample car parking, little direct competition, close to a Rimping supermarket and Wine Collection in CM.

Food is excellent at reasonable prices, the owner is chatty, the staff polite, and the ambience is good. But few customers. There is no rhyme or reason why it wouldn't be successful.

Maybe it's the luck of the draw. Best wishes, Bob and Lek.

Lets look at this logically, a drunken/junkie clown who has been bringing in business for the local bar suddenly ups and runs from an island after people want to kill him. By chance this is a few days after people were murdered, people who he know, and he is sporting almost identical wounds to that of a murder victim. You don't get a copper and a local mafia geezer trying to off you for no reason, obviously something was up and it wasn't because they didn't like his version of Wonderwall.

I have it on good authority this case has already been decided and both B2 will walk under a 'not enough clear evidence' umbrella, when this will happen I do not know but I doubt it will be this year going by the recent circus. This way the cops do not lose face and it goes down as another Thailand unsolved crime and quite literally it is a case of 'next'. They need it to calm down and disappear before they allow them to walk obviously.

Could you be more explicit on who this 'good authority' is? PM me if it's sensitive.